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U.S. Delegation Seeks to Strengthen the Fragile Ceasefire Between Israel and Hamas; Parkinson's Disease Patient Plays Clarinet While Undergoing Surgery. Aired 3-3:45a ET

Aired October 22, 2025 - 03:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[03:00:00]

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ROSEMARY CHURCH, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and welcome to our viewers joining us from all around the world and to everyone streaming us on CNN Max. I'm Rosemary Church. Just ahead.

Israel identifies the bodies of two more hostages as a U.S. delegation seeks to bolster the fragile ceasefire with Hamas.

Kyiv under attack just as Donald Trump says a meeting with Vladimir Putin in Budapest is off.

An explosive memoir from Virginia Giuffre putting convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein and his associates in the spotlight.

Plus, this remarkable moment, a woman playing the clarinet while undergoing surgery.

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Live from Atlanta, this is "CNN Newsroom" with Rosemary Church.

CHURCH: Thanks for joining us.

A U.S. delegation is in Israel trying to shore up the ceasefire deal in Gaza following Sunday's deadly violence.

Hamas has handed over the remains of another two hostages. The Israeli military has identified them as Arye Zalmanovich and Tamir Adar, they were both from kibbutz Nir Oz in southern Israel. 85-year-old Zalmanovich was the oldest hostage taken, according to the Missing Families Forum.

Meantime, U.S. envoys Steve Witkoff and Jared Kushner met several recently freed hostages in Tel Aviv on Tuesday. U.S. Vice President J.D. Vance is also in Israel, but he's downplaying concerns about the fragility of the Gaza ceasefire. And Vice President Vance's presence in the region is meant at least in part to ensure Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu remains committed to the ceasefire.

CNN's Kevin Liptak has details from Washington.

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KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: The Vice President, J.D. Vance, is in Israel to try and shore up support for the ceasefire that President Trump helped broker and it was evident as he was speaking during a press conference on Tuesday that the administration still views this truce as somewhat delicate.

Now, Vance did say that the ceasefire is, quote, "going better than I expected," but neither he nor the other officials who spoke, which included the President's foreign envoy Steve Witkoff and his son-in- law Jared Kushner, offered many details about the next phase of this ceasefire proposal, which includes having Hamas disarm, rebuilding the Strip, providing new governance for the Palestinian enclave. And so it was evident that there remains a lot of work to be done.

And according to officials, what Vance is doing in Israel is essentially trying to ensure that Israel upholds its commitments to keep this ceasefire in place. As one official described it to me, he and these other officials are on the ground there, quote, "Bibisitting," essentially ensuring that the Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu upholds Israel's commitments that it made as part of this 20-point plan that the President has been proclaiming.

And it will be a challenging road ahead. You have seen flare-ups of violence in Gaza since the ceasefire was brokered. President Trump and Vance and Witkoff and Kushner have all urged what they call proportional responses to some of the Hamas violence that has occurred in Gaza since this ceasefire was signed.

But you also hear an urgency from these officials to try and move very quickly to these next phases of the deal, and principally rebuilding Gaza. In the view of these officials, helping the Gazans return to their homes and helping rebuild some of the devastated areas of the Strip could help tamp down on some of the violence that they've seen flare up since this deal was brokered.

Now, Vance did try and downplay the idea that his trip was intended to keep the ceasefire in place. He says that this was planned for several weeks and that he feels, quote, "confident that we're going to be in a place where this peace lasts."

[03:05:08]

But he's warning, and this is similar to what we've heard from President Trump, that if Hamas doesn't cooperate, it will be obliterated. Now, earlier Tuesday, the President suggested on Truth Social that a number of Middle Eastern countries had committed to provide their own troops to go onto the ground into Gaza to go after Hamas if the violence continues.

Now, where those countries are wasn't precisely clear, and it's not at all evident that countries in the region would be willing to send their own troops into harm's way if they fear Israel could restart this war again. President Trump is also making clear that he has not put that request in yet to those countries that he thinks the ceasefire is holding, however delicate it may be. Kevin Liptak, CNN, the White House.

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CHURCH: For more on this, let's bring in H. A. Hellyer, Senior Associate Fellow at the Royal United Services Institute for Defense and Security Studies. He joins us live from Cairo, Egypt. I appreciate you being with us.

So, let's start with the U.S. Vice President J.D. Vance downplaying how fragile the ceasefire is, while at the same time, sources are telling CNN that privately, Trump administration officials worry that the ceasefire deal could fall apart. What is your reading of where things stand?

(TECHNICAL DIFFICULTIES)

All right. I think we're all having trouble with your audio, sir. We will actually try and get that all fixed and come back to you. We'll continue on now while we try to fix that.

Russia has launched an air attack on Kyiv, killing two people and damaging residential areas. The city's mayor says explosions jolted the Ukrainian capital early Wednesday morning and have continued since then.

Russia has been ramping up its airstrikes on Kyiv and Ukraine's northern regions in recent weeks. On Tuesday, Russian drones struck the city of Sumy, where emergency officials say nine people were injured. Moscow is once again targeting power facilities to wipe out heat and water for Ukrainians as they head into winter.

Ukraine's President says Russia has become less interested in diplomacy now that the U.S. has refused to provide Ukraine with long- range tomahawk missiles. Volodymyr Zelenskyy says Ukraine's ability to strike deep in Russian territory might be the key to forcing Vladimir Putin to consider a peace deal. President Trump had said he would meet with Russia's President within a few weeks.

CNN's Kristen Holmes tells us why that's not happening.

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KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, from a meeting in roughly two weeks or so to no meeting at all, it seems as though this sit-down between President Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin is currently on ice. Now, President Trump was asked about this when he was talking to reporters in the Oval Office. Here's what he said.

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: I don't want to have a wasted meeting, I don't want to have a wasted time. So I'll see what happens.

HOLMES: Now, this is really quite stunning. A waste of time. This is completely different from what we've been hearing from President Trump for the last several days. Now, just to take you back in time as to how we ended up here, a

reminder that it was just over a week ago that President Trump was flirting with the idea publicly of giving these tomahawk missiles to Ukraine to fight against Russia. These are these long-range missiles that could go deep into Russia.

Then, on Thursday of last week, President Trump got a call from Russian President Vladimir Putin. Those tomahawks were raised, as were a number of other things. President Trump came out of that meeting saying that he was going to have a sit-down with Vladimir Putin again, even though he had a one-on-one with him in Alaska that yielded little to no results but that meeting was going to be in two weeks or so pretty quick.

We started getting word that that might not be happening or at least seem to be in a strange position late on Monday night when we were told that the two leaders who were supposed to meet ahead of Putin and Trump, which were Secretary of State Marco Rubio and Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov, had canceled their meeting. Administration officials saying that the two of them had a productive call, and because of that, an additional sit-down was not necessary.

Well, one thing to keep in mind here, this was something President Trump had said was going to happen, that these two leaders, Rubio and Lavrov, were going to have their meeting before the big sit-down with Putin and Trump.

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With that off the table, it became clear, and we heard from an administration official, that this meeting was not happening in the immediate future. Now, why exactly seems to be up in the air, but we do know that Rubio had this phone conversation with Lavrov on Monday, and the results were no meeting with them and now no immediate meeting with President Trump and Putin.

So, of course, we'll be tracking this down to see what exactly happens next and what we hear from the Kremlin on President Trump now saying this is a waste of time.

Kristen Holmes, CNN, the White House.

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CHURCH: All right, we do want to return to the Gaza ceasefire and we have established our audio connection now.

So H.A. Hellyer, joins us, Senior Associate Fellow at the Royal United Services for Defense and Security Studies. He joins us live from Cairo, Egypt.

Okay, so let's start with the U.S. Vice President, J.D. Vance, downplaying how fragile the ceasefire is while at the same time sources are telling CNN that privately Trump administration officials worried that the ceasefire deal could fall apart. What's your reading of where things stand? H.A. HELLYER, SR. ASSOCIATE FELLOW, ROYAL UNITED SERVICES INSTITUTE

FOR DEFENSE AND SECURITY STUDIES: Thank you so much, Rosemary. Sorry about the problem before.

So, I think Bibisitting is incredibly apt in this regard. It's very telling because, of course, Israel is an ally and Israel is an ally that relies tremendously on American support politically, internationally, in terms of military support, in terms of political support at the United Nations.

It's inconceivable that Israel could have actually prosecuted any of this war without American support. And yet, Washington is incredibly concerned that the Netanyahu government will do whatever it can do to sabotage this deal.

Why is that? Because, unfortunately, in recent history, that's precisely what has happened. The last ceasefire that was set up in January of this year lasted for a month or so, and then was unilaterally abandoned by Netanyahu's government, and a return to war took place. This time around, the Trump administration seems to really want at least this phase to hold and try to get to the next phase.

There will be problems because the next phase includes this international stabilization force, which is very difficult to envision without, first, complete Israeli cooperation, but then also a political horizon for a Palestinian state.

Without a political horizon for a Palestinian state, then it's very difficult to imagine many countries agreeing to be part of that stabilization force, because what are they going to be viewed as?

They'll be viewed as simply enforcing a new type of occupation in order to protect the Israelis, not something that I think the Palestinian people will recognize as serving their aspirations for self-determination.

CHURCH: And of course, Hamas is yet to return all the bodies of the hostages, with 13 still to come home and that delay is having an impact, of course, on humanitarian aid deliveries, getting into Gaza and increasing the possibility of this fragile peace plan falling apart. What needs to happen to get Hamas to return all the remaining hostages' bodies as required under the agreement?

HELLYER: So, two things. First, the humanitarian aid coming into Gaza has very little to do in international law with any agreement. The Israeli government is the occupying power in Gaza, it is obliged under international law to allow humanitarian aid to get into the people of Gaza, irrespective of Hamas, irrespective of any deal.

And using humanitarian aid as essentially a weapon against the civilian population in Gaza is completely illegal. This is why you've had the international community tell the Israelis multiple times you have to let aid in. It's not an option, it's not a choice, you simply have to do it.

It's not even technically they're obliged to provide that aid to the population in Gaza because they are the occupying power. Nobody's even asking that. They're simply saying let the international community get its own aid in.

Secondly, when it comes to returning the bodies of the hostages, one has to keep in mind there's been a two-year really destructive war of devastation on Gaza. And the Americans have recognized this. It's physically, logistically, really difficult to get at all of the bodies that are, frankly, under the rubble in Gaza.

The Americans have suggested and have been trying to get the Turks in, because the Turks have experience not in, of course, these hostages being taken out from under the rubble, but because of earthquakes that have happened multiple times in Turkey, they have teams that are specialized in this regard. And the Turks are standing by.

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But the Israelis are very uncomfortable about the Turks coming into Gaza. So I think it's quite extraordinary that the Trump administration is expressing understanding about the logistical difficulties in this regard, when Israel, knowing exactly what has happened in Gaza over the past two years, is trying to use this as an excuse to stop aid from going in and to sabotage the deal in all but name.

CHURCH: And on Truth Social Tuesday, Donald Trump posted that many countries in the Middle East had explicitly told him they'd welcome the opportunity to go into Gaza with their forces and, quote, straighten out Hamas if Hamas continues to act badly. And he added that quote, "there's still hope that Hamas will do what's right."

Firstly, how eager are these various nations to send their forces into Gaza? And you did touch on that a little earlier. And on the issue of Hamas doing what's right, is that ever going to happen in terms of the return of the hostages' bodies, but also on the issue of disarming?

HELLYER: So on the issue of returning the bodies, I don't think there's any question. Hamas wants this deal to go forward, because it knows it has no friends. It's an incredibly weak position.

All of its quasi-allies in the region have told them, go for it, and who have any leverage in this regard. Of course, the Iranians are another issue entirely, but they have no leverage. But the Turks, they're really impressed upon them, they have to sign the deal, the Egyptians, the Qataris, everybody was very clear.

So I don't think it's a question of whether Hamas is willing to live up to the deal. I think when it comes to the hostages and the hostage bodies, it's really simply an issue of logistics and difficulty on the ground. When it comes to regional countries going in, I think you've got quite a few countries willing to go in to stabilize the strip, to allow for rebuilding to take place, but not if there isn't a clear political process about what happens next.

Otherwise, again, they will be portrayed as simply making it safe for the Israelis. The Israelis currently on the ground have control over more than half of Gaza. I don't think regional countries are going to go in and sort of manage the yellow line that divides Gaza into two in order to simply keep Hamas away from the rest of Gaza, it's not going to work like that.

They need to have a political horizon where at the end of this process there is the return of the Palestinian Authority, there is the manifestation of a Palestinian state, and then I think they'll be able to disarm Hamas quite easily, because Hamas has already said that they would disarm, that they would give up all their weapons, that they would even disband all of their fighters, but that they'd need to have some sort of progress towards statehood in that regard for them to do so.

They're in a very weak position at the moment, and I think that the opportunity right now is quite ripe for those who think that they can actually bring a really complete end to all of this, but it really relies on the Israelis cooperating and recognizing that integration into the region depends on recognizing Palestinian self-determination. It cannot avoid it, and it cannot force the rest of the region to go along without it.

CHURCH: H. A. Hellyer, thank you so much for joining us, I appreciate it.

HELLYER: Thank you.

CHURCH: And still to come, new claims in the posthumous memoir of one of the most prominent victims of Jeffrey Epstein's sex trafficking ring. We will tell you what's in Virginia Giuffre's book. That is next.

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CHURCH: All right, we're bringing up these live pictures from the Louvre in Paris. The museum just opened to tourists for the first time since Sunday's audacious robbery.

Meantime, the global manhunt continues for the gang of thieves who stole crown jewels worth more than $100 million. Around 100 investigators are now working on the case that's according to museum officials. But a Paris prosecutor warned the thieves will never obtain these considerable sums should they dismantle, melt down, or resell the artifacts.

The Apollo Gallery that was targeted will remain closed to the public.

All right, so new claims in a posthumous memoir by accuser Virginia Giuffre is reigniting controversy around the Jeffrey Epstein case. The book contains harrowing details of the abuse she allegedly suffered with Giuffre at one point writing, quote, "I believe that I might die a sex slave."

CNN's Salma Abdelaziz has details.

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SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's been about six months since Virginia Giuffre died of suicide, but her fight for justice and accountability perhaps reached its pinnacle with the release of her memoir, "Nobody's Girl." And while a lot of the accusations in it against Jeffrey Epstein, against his inner circle, are not new, it is the details in the book, the harrowing blow-by-blow account that sends shivers down your spine.

She talks about her first meeting, her first interaction with Prince Andrew, and she says she picked a pink top, a pink crop top and sparkly jeans because she felt like a teenager. She wanted to dress like a pop star.

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And she talks about their first conversation and says Prince Andrew was asked to guess her age and that he accurately guessed it as 17. And it is those moments in the book that are sure to horrify readers. Prince Andrew, just about a week ago, relinquished his royal titles.

Now, he has long denied any wrongdoing, but he did settle a civil suit with Virginia Giuffre in 2022, reportedly for millions of dollars. And him relinquishing his title, him stepping away from public duty is an attempt to protect Buckingham Palace. But the release of this book is only sure to draw more heat and more pressure on that palace behind me.

Salma Abdelaziz, CNN, London.

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CHURCH: "CNN Newsroom" continues after a short break.

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CHURCH: Welcome back to "CNN Newsroom," I'm Rosemary Church. I want to check today's top stories for you.

Israel has identified the remains of two more hostages handed over by Hamas. The Israeli military has identified them as Tamir Adar and Arye Zalmanovich. They were both from Kibbutz Nir Oz in southern Israel, Hamas has now returned 15 of the 28 bodies of deceased hostages as part of the ceasefire agreement.

Two people have been killed by a Russian air attack on Kyiv. Ukrainian officials say Russia began targeting the capital early Wednesday, sparking explosions across the city and damaging residential buildings. Russia has ramped up its strikes in recent weeks on cities and power facilities. North Korea has carried out its first ballistic missile test in five months. Military officials in Seoul say they detected several short- range ballistic missiles fired from an area south of Pyongyang. It comes days before U.S. President Donald Trump and other leaders are set to meet in South Korea.

President Trump says he could be seeking $230 million from the U.S. Justice Department, he claims that some would be compensation and damages for past investigations into his actions. According to the "New York Times," he submitted complaints each of the past two years before he was re-elected, and his own former defense attorneys now hold Justice Department jobs and could be involved in approving any such payouts

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I'm not looking for money, I give it to charity or something. I would give it to charity any money. But look what they did, they rigged the election.

Now with the country it's interesting because I'm the one that makes the decision, right? And you know, that decision would have to go across my desk and it's awfully strange to make a decision where I'm paying myself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: And of course, it is taxpayers who would be footing the bill.

With no end in sight to the U.S. government shutdown, the nation's economy is starting to take on a bit of a K-shape. Our Richard Quest explains what that means.

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CHURCH: Welcome back to CNN, this is your Business Breakout. Let's get a quick look at the major Asia-Pacific markets.

The Nikkei recovered from early losses to finish flat. Hong Kong still has about 30 minutes left in the trading day, the Seoul KOSPI gained 1.5 percent.

And these are the business headlines.

Gold has posted its worst one-day loss in five years. The precious metal, which has recently been hitting record highs, is still up more than 50 percent this year. Silver also suffered its biggest loss in years on Tuesday, falling more than 6 percent.

America's largest private sector employer is pausing job offers to foreign candidates requiring H-1B visas. Walmart's hiring freeze comes after the Trump administration announced a $100,000 annual fee for those visas, which are meant for highly skilled workers. Walmart currently employs 2000 H-1B visa holders.

The Louvre has reopened to the public for the first time since the daring daytime jewel heist on Sunday. The museum's curator estimates the jewelry stolen from the Apollo Gallery is worth $102 million. Authorities have not announced any solid leads on the missing artifacts or the four suspects.

Roughly 1.4 million government workers have been furloughed or are working without pay due to the U.S. government shutdown now in its third week. The U.S. economy is feeling the sting of the shutdown as well. CNN's Richard Quest explains how the wealthy continue to thrive while low-income Americans are struggling even more.

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RICHARD QUEST, CNN BUSINESS EDITOR-AT-LARGE: Now, apart from the federal workers, the shutdown is having a direct effect, whether it's farmers and small businesses, the whole load of businesses that rely on government contracts.

And it's one more factor that's contributing to what is now being called the K-shaped economy. Why the K-shaped economy? Because on the upper branch, you have the high earners who investments are soaring, secure jobs are continuing to spend, that's this bit.

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At the lower part, the low-income, middle-income housing feeling the pinch of inflation about worries of jobs.

And as we look at the total of the whole thing, if you take, for example, on the top bit, you've got consumer sentiment, current consumer sentiment, where stock owners have strong, positive. And that we see that, for example, in the way people are spending.

The airlines, for example, Delta and American, they are selling premium seats, expensive ones at the front where you turn left, not right. They are still selling very strongly.

Compare that with the budget airlines of Spirit and Frontier. Spirit, of course, very out of bankruptcy and struggling to sell cheap seats no matter how low the price goes.

And it's not just in travel. Let's take, for example, goods and expensive goods.

Why is LVMH doing so well? It is at the top part of the K curve.

And on the other side, proving the point, rising auto loan delinquencies. Again, those who don't have money are finding it very difficult.

And if you want the archetypal, traditionally snacks, biscuits, fast food does OK. They're not quite recession-proof, but they are recession-resistant. We're not seeing that.

Certain ones like McDonald's, for example, are actually having to offer discounts with low-income customers spending less.

This is a classic case of the K-shaped economy actually in real life, in action.

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CHURCH: All right. Well, a remarkable moment of joy for a patient with Parkinson's disease as she played the clarinet while undergoing brain surgery.

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65-year-old Denise Bacon had been experiencing muscle stiffness caused by her Parkinson's disease. During a four-hour operation, surgeons at King's Hospital in London implanted electrodes into Denise's brain while she was awake to help relieve her symptoms. The movement in Denise's fingers improved immediately, allowing her to play the clarinet more easily.

I want to thank you so much for your company, I'm Rosemary Church. Have yourselves a wonderful day. "Marketplace Europe" is next.

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