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Senate At Work This Weekend, Trying To Break Stalemate; Trump Calls For GOP To "Terminate" Filibuster To End Shutdown; Interview With Sen. Chris Coons (D-DE); Widespread Power Outages Hit Ukraine After Russian Attacks; U.S. Military Massing Naval And Air Assets In The Caribbean; Supreme Court Lets Trump Pause Full Snap Benefits For Now; New York Fed Data Shows Household Debt At Historic High; Helping Prisoners Heal Through Writing And Community. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired November 08, 2025 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:00:40]

JESSICA DEAN, CNN HOST: You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

Hi, everyone. I'm Jessica Dean in Los Angeles today.

We are now more than a month into the longest shutdown in government history. And for now, there are few signs of a breakthrough.

No vote today as senators work through the weekend. And the impacts of this stalemate are rippling across the country.

Majority Leader John Thune saying negotiators are getting, quote, "close" to drafting a new measure, though it's not clear when that vote would happen.

Meanwhile, the more than 41 million Americans who receive food stamps are facing both hunger and further uncertainty after the Supreme Court paused a lower court order that required the Trump administration to pay this month's benefits in full.

Also tonight, all departures from Newark Airport just outside New York City were grounded until 5:00 p.m. And we're waiting to see if flights will begin taking off again or if that ground stop will be extended.

The FAA saying all three New York City area airports are reporting staffing shortages and fliers are stuck in delays at major airports across the country. That, in part due to an FAA mandate to cut 4 percent of flights at 40 different airports.

The administration blaming the ongoing shutdown with more flight cuts planned for next week unless a deal is reached.

CNN has all angles of this story covered today with senior reporter Annie Grayer on Capitol Hill and senior White House reporter Kevin Liptak traveling with the president this weekend in West Palm Beach, Florida. Let's start first on Capitol Hill with Annie, where we are seeing them

in session over the weekend, something rare to see, Annie. But so far no major movement, it sounds like.

ANNIE GRAYER, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: That's right Jess. T

The Senate is here. It is rare for senators to be here on a Saturday, but they are not expected to hold a vote related to the government shutdown.

So that just shows you how little progress is being made. And that's because both sides remain extremely dug in. There are negotiations going on, but we have yet to see the two sides come together on a resolution.

But let's just rewind a little bit back to Monday. It seemed like there was some real bipartisanship, some movement on these negotiations. Both sides were feeling optimistic.

And then Tuesday, Democrats had a major sweep in the elections. And that really reaffirmed for a lot of Democratic senators that they needed to keep fighting on their key issue, which is that they would not vote to reopen the government until Republicans made some sort of deal on those expiring Obamacare subsidies, which are causing people's health care prices to go up.

So then we got to Friday, where Chuck Schumer gave Republicans a new offer, which was that Democrats would vote with Republicans to reopen the government if Republicans extended those expiring subsidies by one year.

And guess what? Republicans completely rejected that offer, said it was a complete nonstarter, saying that they wouldn't even have the negotiation until Democrats voted to reopen the government, which has been their position this whole time.

So let's take a listen to both the top Democrat and Republican in the Senate today as they framed both their own arguments and how they view the opposing side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY), SENATE MINORITY LEADER: So why? Why have Republicans dragged this shutdown on for so, so long? Because they don't want to lower health care costs, because they seem happy to let 24 million Americans see their premiums double on average.

A one-year extension is something many Republicans themselves have said they want. It's something a great many Americans support. 55 percent of Trump supporters support it after all.

SEN. JOHN THUNE (R-SD), SENATE MAJORITY LEADER: The Democrat leader's proposal is a nonstarter for the Republican majority. The Democrat leader wants to believe that this is a, quote, "simple proposal", that it is some sort of compromise. But it is not.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRAYER: So there you heard both Chuck Schumer and the top Republican Senator John Thune, both dismissing each other's proposals. That just shows you how far apart both sides remain here.

But the Senate is expected to come back into session tomorrow. Senators will continue those bipartisan negotiations behind the scenes, and we'll see if any of that behind-the-scenes work really manifests into something on the floor.

But we are expecting the shutdown to continue to drag on in the meantime. The longest in history and people are feeling real pain.

[17:04:45]

DEAN: Yes, there is real pain out there all across the country and blue and red states does not matter.

Annie Grayer on Capitol Hill, thank you for that.

I want to turn now to Kevin Liptak in West Palm Beach. Kevin, obviously you're with the president this weekend. What is your sense of his and his team's thinking as this shutdown drags on?

KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yes. And it seems as if the president's strategy here remains to cling to this idea that the Republicans should eliminate the filibuster. That's the 60-vote threshold in the Senate that would allow them to essentially end the government shutdown without any Democratic buy-in.

You know, the president has written about this on Truth Social 8 or 9 times over the last day. The only problem here is that Republicans, many of them, just don't support this idea. They think it would come back to haunt them if Democrats were to regain the majority in the chamber.

And you've heard that pretty explicitly from John Thune, the Senate Majority Leader, who says that the votes just aren't there.

Now, we heard from JD Vance, the vice president earlier today who said that these Republican concerns were wrong, that if they don't eliminate the filibuster now, that Democrats will just do it down the line. So they may as well just seize the initiative and use it to end the government shutdown. But how that particular knot is untied remains to be seen.

Now, the president earlier today did seem to propose a new compromise measure. He says that instead of providing these subsidies for Obamacare, that instead that money should just be sent directly to the American people.

He wrote on Truth Social, "Take from the big bad insurance companies, give it to the people and terminate per dollar spent. The worst health care anywhere in the world. Obamacare."

So essentially saying get rid of Obamacare, send the money directly to Americans. Now that is obviously going to be a nonstarter with Democrats. They're never going to vote to get rid of Obamacare.

It's not precisely clear that every Republican will be on board with this. You know, Republicans, as a party, have been trying to get rid of Obamacare for the better part of 15 years, and they haven't been successful.

So it's not precisely clear that every Republican is going to want to go down that road again.

It's also entirely unclear about how this will help reopen the government. You know, those bipartisan negotiations that are underway on Capitol Hill center around this idea of Democrats getting the assurance from Republicans that there will be a vote on these subsidies.

Now, the president is saying that he doesn't support them at all. So how that gets resolved -- also unclear.

Now, the president urged Republicans to stay in Washington this weekend. That is exactly what they've done. The president, for his part, is obviously down here in Florida. He was -- spent most of the day on his golf course, Jessica.

DEAN: All right. Kevin Liptak, thank you so much for that reporting.

We're joined now by Democratic Senator Chris from Delaware. He serves on the Appropriations, Judiciary and Foreign Relations Committees.

Senator, thanks so much for being here on a Saturday. We really appreciate it.

I just want to get your sense, we've heard from our reporters, what they're seeing. What is your sense about how long this is going to take? There are a lot of people, as we talked about at the beginning of our show, who are feeling the pain in red and blue states.

Democrats and Republicans -- it doesn't matter. They're being affected by this.

Sen. Chris Coons (D-DE): Well, this is maddening, Jessica, that the man who wrote "The Art of the Deal", President Trump, isn't even here. Speaker Johnson, who leads the House of Representatives, isn't even here.

Senators -- Republicans and Democrats are in the Capitol today. Tomorrow we're in session trying to negotiate our way out of this shutdown. Meanwhile, President Trump is golfing in Mar-a-Lago.

We need the president to take responsibility for helping get the House back in session and helping negotiate a way out of this.

I'm hearing from Delawareans that their health care costs are skyrocketing. They're increasing by 30 percent or 100 percent, and getting to a level they can't afford.

And I'm hearing from folks who are mad about the delays at airports, about the threats to SNAP payments, about not getting paid federal employees, folks who serve our nation at home and abroad. So there's lots of upset people.

And this is a situation where Democrats yesterday put forward a simple proposal. If you're not willing to negotiate with us, then just extend these ACA tax credits that make the Affordable Care Act affordable for a year. Let's reopen the government and promptly begin negotiating other ideas about how to reduce costs and improve health care.

It is hard to take President Trump seriously with his proposal to try and improve health care when he spent most of 15 years trying to kill the Affordable Care Act. But there's lots of us willing to negotiate if he would just stop playing golf and come back.

[17:09:39]

DEAN: The Senate Majority Leader, Republican John Thune, has pushed for a short-term funding deal, possibly as part of an agreement to also then pass a handful of separate full-year spending bills. Is that something you would consider?

COONS: I think it's helpful. I'm an appropriator. I want to see us get back to work and get back to passing the bills that will not just reopen the government, but that will reject Trump's cuts to things like SNAP and WIC, the CDC and the NIH. There are important bipartisan bills that would accomplish all of these goals.

But Democrats have been clear. Our constituents and Republicans' constituents are seeing their health care costs skyrocket. We need to address health care costs.

And the most urgent way to do that is to avoid the tax credits that make the Affordable Care Act affordable from expiring.

There's other good things we could and should do together through appropriations and through reforming health care. But we have to deal with these health care costs first.

DEAN: And this week, you said that a simple guarantee of a vote to extend these ACA subsidies, which is something that Republicans have said maybe they'd be willing to do is to ensure a vote would not be enough for you. What would be enough for you? What are you -- what are you willing to accept?

Well, what Leader Schumer put on the floor has the support of every Democrat, which is this one-year extension. That's not a permanent extension. It's not an expansion. It's simply saying, let's keep this from impacting all of our constituents. And then begin negotiating on how we can reform and improve the Affordable Care Act and health care costs going forward.

For us to have a vote and leave the House of Representatives out of it -- remember, they're not even in session. They haven't been here in six weeks.

Seems to me to miss the fact that if we get a vote here in the Senate and they don't get a vote in the House they also miss the chance to put folks on record about whether they're willing to step forward and try and reduce the costs that Americans are facing.

DEAN: Senator, we knew that these subsidies were going to expire. And yet here we are at really I mean, already its happened in the sense that if people are checking their exchange right now and looking to do their open enrollment, they're going to see those increased premiums.

Why? Why now? Why wait to now? Why did this become this, this mess that shuts down the government?

COONS: Well, as you know, this is something Democrats have been raising for months and months, back to the so-called Big, Beautiful Bill in the summer that Republicans jammed through the Congress without a single Democrat vote.

Our principal criticism of that bill was that it throws millions of Americans off of health care, in that case by cutting Medicaid. But all of these concerns about health care have been out there, spoken to by Democrats, unaddressed by the Republicans who control the Senate and the House and the White House.

President Trump has said for years he's going to deliver better, higher quality, lower cost health care on day one. Well, he was elected over a year ago. He's been president now for nearly ten months. And bluntly, he's done nothing about it.

He ran and won an election a year ago on lowering peoples costs and making America healthy again. Instead, what he and his party have done this year is to raise costs and pass bills that will make people less healthy.

If there was any message from Tuesday's election where folks turned out in droves and elected Democrats in many states across the country, not just Virginia and New Jersey, but statewide elections in Georgia, surprising state election results in a number of other states, including Mississippi.

The consistent message in those elections was lower costs and deal with health care. There's a path forward for us to do this, but it's going to take President Trump to push the House back into session and to come to the table.

DEAN: On Friday, and I know you mentioned this at the beginning of our conversation about getting the military paid, because just as a reminder to everyone, federal employees are not getting paid. Many of them do have to work without being paid. Others are simply told to stay home and are not getting paid.

But on Friday, Democrats blocked a proposal by Ron Johnson to pay federal workers during the shutdown. And you previously have tried to get a bill through to ensure the military gets paid. Why don't Democrats want to support Senator Johnson's measure?

COONS: Senator Johnson's measure, in particular, would have given President Trump the power to decide who he was going to pay, who he was going to RIF, who he wasn't. A RIF is a reduction in force. That's a D.C. word for essentially laying people off.

And Gary Peters, a Democratic senator who has been talking to Senator Johnson, has an alternative bill that I co-sponsor that would actually pay all of the federal workforce and not empower the president to decide which he wants to lay off.

[17:14:51]

COONS: So, given that President Trump has repeatedly said that he's going to use this shutdown to lay off people in departments that Democrats prefer, to cancel projects in blue states, to resist paying out the food benefits of SNAP to hungry Americans.

I think there's good reason for us to not trust that if we pass the Johnson bill as written, it would actually be implemented in a fair and evenhanded way.

As you mentioned, I also went to the floor and tried to get through a bill that would pay our military, and Republicans blocked that bill.

DEAN: All right. Senator Chris Coons, we will see how long this will go. Thank you so much for your time. We do appreciate it.

COONS: Yes. Thank you.

DEAN: Still ahead, Ukraine is facing widespread power outages tonight after Russia launched another massive, deadly drone and missile attack.

Plus, the White House is intensifying its focus on Venezuela, which could include strikes inside the country.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

[17:15:52]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DEAN: Overnight, Russia launching a massive aerial assault on Ukraine; President Volodymyr Zelensky says nine regions came under attack as many people were sleeping.

Russia has been targeting Ukrainian energy infrastructure as winter approaches and local officials say last night's attacks killed two people and caused widespread power outages.

Tonight, Russia is signaling it's moving forward with plans to potentially test its nuclear weapons. State media reporting foreign minister Sergey Lavrov says plans are underway after an order given by President Vladimir Putin.

Let's bring in CNN political and national security analyst David Sanger. He's also a White House and national security correspondent for "The New York Times".

David, good to see you. This news follows comments made by President Trump that the U.S. would

resume nuclear testing. Obviously, there were few details around that.

What is your sense of if this is more kind of saber rattling, or is this a legitimate escalation we're seeing?

DAVID SANGER, CNN POLITICAL AND NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, good to see you and thanks for having me on.

This is an escalation that if it happens, was prompted pretty much by President Trump's comments. You know, the president likes to speak vaguely most of the time. And for good reason, it leaves him with a lot of leeway.

But when it comes to nuclear weapons and nuclear tests, speaking vaguely can trigger a lot of things that are unintended. And that's, I think, what's happened here.

The president said that they were going to resume nuclear tests. We couldn't tell from the way he was speaking. Did he mean explosive tests? He seemed to suggest that. Something the United States has not done for 33 years.

That prompted the Russians to say, well, we're wiring up our nuclear test sites and we can be doing that as well. And, of course, it's less than three months now before the last treaty between the United States and Russia expires that limits the number of our nuclear weapons.

This is not a really great time to be getting into a cycle of testing and counter testing, or potentially a resumption of the -- of an expensive arms race.

DEAN: Yes, that is very important context around all of this. And how -- what do you think or how do you think the president and his administration might read this move by Putin?

SANGER: Well, I think Putin is trying to read the administration. So first, the president came out and said what he said.

Then the Energy Secretary Chris Wright came out and said no, no, no, were not really talking about doing explosive nuclear tests. We're talking about testing components of new weapons that are being developed or replacement weapons to make sure they operate.

Well, that's what the Energy Department does now. They're responsible for developing nuclear weapons. The president issued his order to the Defense Department. I don't know if he didn't realize it was the Energy Department's job or whether he was just trying to make this sound like a Department of War kind of activity.

And then the Russians reacted. So, you know, the Russians had not discussed this testing issue until the president brought it up. My guess is that Putin's not going to do anything unless the United States does.

Now, President Trump says there have been, by Russia and China, some very small tests that have been conducted. There's some dispute in the intelligence community over the past few years about what those have amounted to. And he may be using that as his pretext to, to conduct a larger test.

DEAN: I do also, before you go, I want to ask you about Venezuela. Lawmakers on Capitol Hill were briefed this week, with sources telling CNN the executive order under which the administration is striking these alleged drug boats does not extend to land targets, but did not rule out potential further actions.

So it appears at this point, the administration is gathering options for the president. What is your understanding of that situation?

SANGER: So we reported earlier this week in "The Times" that the Pentagon has forwarded three different attack options, which range from just hitting the drug sites to hitting military sites, to actually trying to go in and remove president Maduro.

[17:24:51]

SANGER: Now in -- as he's met with members of Congress, we've heard a different story from Secretary of State Marco Rubio, who says there's no legal finding right now for removing Maduro or even doing these tests. Don't worry, we're not planning to start up a war with Venezuela.

But that does sort of beg the question of why we've moved 10,000 troops in with an additional 5,000 sailors coming in with the arrival expected, sort of at the end of this week or this coming week of a new carrier group, the Gerald R. Ford.

And so there's a disconnect between what the president and his aides are saying to Congress, which is, don't worry, we don't plan to go this route, to what they're seeing in the buildup. And maybe it's just psychological warfare.

DEAN: Yes. And I'm also curious.

The Secretary of State, Marco Rubio, also obviously, the acting national security advisor, he is one of the administration and the president's point people in this operation.

What do we know about his kind of history with Venezuela, his influence, his stance on that situation?

SANGER: Well, he's been pretty hard line on Maduro and understandably so. So is the Biden administration. I mean, Maduro is only there because he fixed an election or two.

He's been, you know, clinging on to power. The administration has named him, as the Biden administration did before that, as central to the movement of drugs from Venezuela to the United States. And the Biden administration actually had a reward out for Maduro's -- information leading to Maduro's capture and conviction. And so has the Trump administration, which actually doubled that reward to $50 million. But that's a different thing than saying you're going to go in with

special forces or some kind of land operation and try to seize him.

DEAN: Yes, certainly.

All right. David Sanger, always good to see you. Thanks for that. We appreciate it.

SANGER: Great to see you.

DEAN: And coming up, a federal judge rules the Trump administration illegally deployed the National Guard to Portland, Oregon. So what happens next for the administration?

Stay with the CNN NEWSROOM.

[17:27:14]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:31:38]

DEAN: Full SNAP benefits are once again in limbo, as Supreme Court Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson temporarily pause a lower court order last night, requiring Trump administration to restore benefits to millions of Americans.

Let's bring in CNN legal analyst and criminal defense attorney Joey Jackson.

Joey, help people understand Justice Jackson, putting this temporary pause in place. What that functionally means?

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Happens, Jessica, good to be with you, is that it is a pause. And so, just very quickly, what ended up happening was, is that we had a Judge McConnell in Rhode Island, who indicated that the Trump administration must pay these benefits.

They are appropriated by Congress. They have the money, that is the administration, and they should pay them. The argument is, is that under the federal Administrative Procedures Act, not paying them would be arbitrary.

As a result of that, the administration, of course, had the prerogative to appeal, and they did. They appealed to the First Circuit and just to be clear, that is a circuit court, an appellate court in consisting of Rhode Island of Maine, Puerto Rico. It's located in Boston.

And so, the appellate court said, we are not going to halt that. The judge made a ruling you are going to pay the benefits. And so, what did now the Trump administration do? They went to the Supreme Court and said, hey, listen, we are appealing to you to halt this. And so, the Supreme Court has now temporarily paused this until the Court of Appeals for the First Circuit issues an actual decision. I suspect Jessica that it will end up in the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court will render a ruling with respect to whether the president has the authority to halt benefits that are lawfully appropriated by Congress, or whether it is the prerogative of the president based on his executive discretion, you know, to do as he wishes.

And so, that will remain to be seen. While it does right remaining to be seen, these are paused. And so, it's temporary in nature, it's not permanent. But where we are now is we are in a state of uncertainty, and that obviously is very unfortunate for millions of American, 42 million, in fact, to rely on the Supplemental Nutritional Assistance Program.

DEAN: Right. And as you were saying, and I think this is important, my understanding is that the pause is put in place, again, as you were saying, as we wait and hopefully can expedite that ruling that we are waiting on from a lower court, that it hopefully continues this process a little more quickly.

JACKSON: Yes. I think so, Jessica. I think, based upon the nature of the circumstance and what legal lawyers call irreparable harm. I mean, these are people who cannot eat. They depend upon this assistance. And as a result, I think you are going to see the Circuit Court, which is where it is now, First Circuit as we noted, act quickly with regard to saying whether the district court's ruling was proper, issue a decision on the merits, right? That is, make the argument the circuit court that either the judge got it right or wrong.

And then, thereafter, the Trump administration will have the prerogative if they choose to go back to the Supreme Court, and then, we'll get a ruling there. So, very uncertain at this point, I think it will be expedited. But what ultimately happens is going to depend, I think, not on the First Circuit Court, which is where it is now, but it will depend upon the Supreme Court.

Yes. Also, a federal judge in Oregon ruling yesterday that the president and the administration failed to meet the legal requirements to send the National Guard to Portland.

[17:35:02]

What might happen next? Could the administration fight that?

JACKSON: Yes. So, you know, same line of reasoning, what ends up happening is, is that we have a process, and certainly the judge here had a hearing, an evidentiary hearing, based upon three days of testimony, and based upon that, issued a ruling and said the Trump administration exceeded its authority.

You know, the president can indeed federalize troops, but they have to be factual findings that are consistent with what's happening on the ground, such as, is there an insurrection? Is there a rebellion? Is there a threat of a rebellion? Is it such that sufficient resources are not equipped to deal with the issue, such that national guard should be called in? The judge said, none of that is present, and as a result, you've exceeded your constitutional authority, Mr. President. I suspect now that it will be appealed to the circuit court there, which is not the first, as we talked about before, but the ninth. That's out west, including, you know, Washington State, California, Oregon, of course, and others. And I think ultimately this too will be determined by the Supreme Court.

And, you know, Jessica, the issue here, in terms of the precedential value, is that it's really in a state of flux, because this is really driven by the facts, and perhaps, in other states, the Supreme Court's looking at Chicago right now, also, in terms of saying administration was unlawful in doing that, it's going to be very fact specific.

What are the indications in the specific area for which the President wants to federalize the National Guard? Do they justify deployment, or do they not? And again, that is a very fact, specific inquiry, depending upon insurrection, rebellion, et cetera.

DEAN: Yes. All right. Joey Jackson, good to see you. Thanks so much.

JACKSON: Thanks, Jessica.

DEAN: Americans are racking up even more debt, with household debt rising to its highest level on record.

Up next, we are going to explore what the new numbers are telling us about the broader U.S. economy.

And also, a quick programming note for you, CNN is taking an intimate look into the extraordinary political career and life of New Zealand's former prime minister, Jacinda Ardern. Here is a preview of the new CNN film, premiering Sunday, November 16th.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you think you can credibly lead a government?

JACINDA ARDERN, FORMER PRIME MINISTER OF NEW ZEALAND: Do you like to tell me why you don't think I can?

We will remain relentlessly positive. That is who we are as New Zealanders.

Lies have now turned to Jacinda Ardern.

I have three years to do as much as we can.

They thought, how am I going to do this with a baby?

Crises make governments and they break governments.

You can lead just like me.

ANNOUNCER: "PRIME MINISTER" premieres November 16th on CNN, and next day on the CNN app. (END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:42:15]

DEAN: From Virginia to New York, the winners of Tuesday's elections had one major issue in common, and that's what they talked about, affordability in this country. And new data is showing why the economy is so important to voters. A report from the New York Fed, shows Americans are taking on more debt in mortgages, car loans, credit cards, and student loans.

Total household debt hit $18.6 trillion from July through September this year. That is up $197 billion from the previous quarter. We are joined now by Bankrate senior industry analyst Ted Rossman.

Ted, good to see you. Thanks for being here. What stood out to you in this new data?

TED ROSSMAN, SENIOR INDUSTRY ANALYST, BANKRATE: What stood out to me, is that the headline is very negative, right? $18 trillion in debt, records for credit card debt, auto loan debt, mortgages, student loans. A lot of people have a lot of debt.

I would though put a little bit of a silver lining on it, which is that the debt-to-income ratio is actually still pretty low on a historical basis. This is something that we do track closely, because not all debt is created equal. Just over half of credit card holders actually pay their bills in full every month. Student debt and mortgage debt can actually be a good thing, I'll say, in the long run, if it builds equity and furthers your education, furthers your career.

So, not all debt is created equal. A lot of this does come back to that K-shaped economy idea to basically, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

DEAN: Right. And that's what we've continued to see it. And when you say K-shape, I learned this, and when you draw it out, it actually looks like, OK, as the wealthier get more wealthy and the poor get more poor, as you said.

The flow into serious delinquency territory, which is 90 or more days late, was the highest it's been in more than 11 years.

So, what did that tell you?

ROSSMAN: A lot of that comes back to the student loan situation. So, we know that there was a long pause on payments on federal student loans during the pandemic, and then, there was this one year on ramp, even after that long pause expired, really right now, we are only just now seeing this really come home to roost.

We see about one in four federal student loan borrowers are either in default or about to be. This is a really significant thing for those with student debt, and there can be a spillover effect too into other categories.

Credit card and auto delinquencies ran up a lot in 2022 and '23. They both peaked in the middle of '24 and it started to go down a little bit. That also comes back to the K-shaped economy, because there are many people doing quite well. There are many others that are struggling, sadly.

The student debt piece, though, is lagging all of this, mainly because of those procedural effects, just that really long payment pause, and only now is that starting to show up in the data.

[17:45:03]

DEAN: Yes. And what is it -- we keep talking about this K-shaped economy? What does that mean for the -- for our economy as a whole?

ROSSMAN: Moody's says that the top 10 percent of earners are accounting for 50 percent of all spending. That's an all-time high in a data set that goes back to the late '80s. That's kind of the economy in a nutshell right now, because overall, the data is actually pretty good, I would say, in terms of economic growth, consumer spending. It's just not shared equally. It's the higher earners that are propping this up. They tend to be more likely to have stock investments. Well, those have been hitting record highs. They tend to be more likely to be homeowners. Those prices are at record highs, and a lot of people secured three percent mortgages back a few years ago.

There is very much a have and have not element to this. There are also, sadly, a number of people struggling, and people putting groceries and gas and other essentials on credit cards, and financing those month after month at 20 percent That's a tough spot to be in.

So, yes, that whole K-shaped idea where the upper part goes up into the right, and it's growing, and life is good, and then the other part goes down into the right and those are people who feel like, even if they are working and even if they get a raise, it's just not enough to keep pace with the higher cost of living. That's been a huge pain point these past few years.

DEAN: Yes. All right. Ted Rossman, thanks so much. We appreciate it.

ROSSMAN: No problem. Thank you.

DEAN: Thousands of people are stuck in airports tonight, with more than 5,000 flight delays across the country to delay -- today as disruptions from government shutdown cascade across the country into the night, we'll update you when we come back here in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:51:16]

DEAN: Here are some of the top stories we are following tonight. UPS and FedEx have grounded their M.D.-11 aircraft after this week's deadly crash in Louisville, Kentucky. UPS saying this is out of an abundance of caution. We are going to show you some video of the crash that is quite disturbing to watch. The NTSB says an engine separated from a UPS plane right after the takeoff, Tuesday. That crash killing, at least, 14 people. Nine people are still missing.

And a group of those affected by the crash have now filed a lawsuit against UPS, Boeing, and General Electric. In the complaint, they accused the companies of recklessness and negligence, which they say upended the lives and livelihoods of many in the Louisville community.

They go on to say that, that Boeing jet acted like a bomb, igniting 220,000 pounds of jet fuel and combustible materials in its path.

Six more players are now banned as the NCAA continues its investigation into game fixing in men's college basketball. The NCAA announcing late yesterday, players from the University of New Orleans, Mississippi Valley State, and Arizona State, either manipulated their performances or shared information with known betters.

In September, the NCAA banned three other players and announced it was investigating several other from six schools. And all of this going on as the NCAA is toying with changing its long-standing policy that prevents college athletes and staff members from betting on professional sports.

Voting is underway for the 2025 CNN Hero of the Year. We want you to meet each of our top five heroes as you vote for your favorites over the next few weeks.

Debra Des Vignes is a former crime reporter, helping incarcerated people transform their lives through creative writing. She is also giving them the tools to reflect, grow, and build brighter futures.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DEBRA DES VIGNES, FORMER CRIME REPORTER: But when Sheriff SWAT team members arrived at the home, no one was found inside.

I was a television news reporter, and I covered crime. I didn't really understand humanity as I should have as a young reporter in my early 20s. It wasn't until much later that the faces had stories and had names.

I decided to volunteer in a prison because I was always inquisitive and curious about their stories.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is one more in mind that --

DES VIGNES: I saw the raw talent, and that's what led me to create this 12-week creative writing curriculum.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was convicted of dealing in a narcotic and dealing marijuana. I pretty much grew up on the streets. I lost my mother, my father, my sister and my brother, and came to a crossroads and had to make decision whether I was going to use that as fuel to do better.

DES VIGNES: Thank you for sharing that. Yes, I know that was heartfelt.

We never excuse what they have done. In fact, a lot of them write about their remorse. We are just giving them a sacred space where they can let their shoulders down.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Eventually, though, I began to confront my grief with a clear mind and an open heart, accepting the fact that no matter what I did or who I hurt, nothing was going to bring my brother back from the dead.

I look forward to my Friday afternoons more than most days, people just let their souls bleed out of their pens onto that paper. And for two hours a day, everyone can just truly be themselves, and we are like a little small-knit family here. I plan on going into college and majoring in psychology when I get out, so, I feel like this is a huge step towards that.

DES VIGNES: That's going to make me tear up. We'll end on that one. That was really powerful.

Some people would think it's a lock them up and throw away the key.

[17:55:01]

If a lot of these prisoners are going to be released, then why not? Use writing as a tool to become better in the space that you are in?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DEAN: Go to cnn.com/heroes right now to vote for Debra or any of our other top heroes for CNN Hero of the Year. You get 10 votes a day, every day, to help the heroes who inspire you the most.

Well, the Senate is now adjourned for the night, but the top Republican says he plans to keep lawmakers in D.C. until they end the government shutdown. There is still a lot of daylight between the two parties, though. We are going to get the very latest on what's happening on Capitol Hill when we come back on the CNN NEWSROOM.

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