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Marjorie Taylor Green Resigns From Congress Amid Trump Feud; Marco Rubio Claims Meeting With Ukrainian Officials "Most Productive And Meaningful" So Far; Zohran Mamdani Doubles Down On Trump "Fascist" Label After Oval Office Meeting; Pennsylvania Voters Sour On Trump Economy; "It's Only Gotten Worse"; Deportation Fears Keep Many Immigrants From Seeking Healthcare; Investors Grow Worried About A Coming A.I. Bubble. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired November 23, 2025 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:00]

PATRICK SNELL, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR: 2024 to drift. He's back in it with two races still to come.

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN HOST: Wow. Down to post-race inspection technicalities.

Patrick, in women's professional soccer, is Gotham FC who's celebrating, again? Can you just tell us how it all played out?

SNELL: Yes, they are. Gotham FC, yes, they're champions of the National Women's Soccer League for the second time in three seasons after a one nil victory over the Washington Spirit last night in California. Great moment here we got to see. The -- yes, back there. Trinity Rodman coming on to the field of play there. She's been out for a few weeks due to injury. So good to see her back with a winning goal of a match coming 10 minutes from time.

It's from the U.S. World Cup Winner, Rose Lavelle, with a really beautiful finish there, curling the ball out of the keeper's reach into the back of the net. And that was enough to win the title. At the full time whistle, scenes of elation for Gotham FC. We see Rodman there going off again due to injury. Celebrations there for Gotham FC, and this is a really cool stat. They were number eight, Gotham FC now the lowest seed to win the title. They've done it twice now in three seasons. A great achievement for them.

Omar, back to you.

JIMENEZ: Indeed. Patrick Snell, appreciate it as always.

All right, everyone, if you've been with me, welcome back. If you're just getting here, welcome in. I'm Omar Jimenez sitting in for Fredricka Whitfield.

We're going to start this hour with new developments in the stunning resignation of Georgia Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene. Just days after announcing she would step down from Congress in January amid what became a bitter feud with President Trump, today the Georgia Republican is speaking out about a report that says she's eyeing a run for the White House. In really a lengthy expose this morning, the conservative firebrand adamantly denied that she's leaving Congress to mount a 2028 presidential run, saying, quote, "I am not running for president and never said I wanted to, and have only laughed about it when anyone would mention it."

CNN's Camila DeChalus is covering this story.

Camila, Greene isn't saying, though, what the future holds for her, but plenty of lawmakers are reacting to what became really a shocking resignation. What can you tell us?

CAMILA DECHALUS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Omar, that's right. In her resignation statement and even a video that she put out, she didn't necessarily say what she's going to do after she leaves office and she shut down any rumors that she's trying to try to run for the White House in 2028. But it is pretty notable how you have lawmakers, even across the aisle that are weighing in about what her resignation really means.

And some Democrats say that they're not really quite sure what to make of her decision but note that they were kind of counting on her vote in any upcoming deal that would try to extend the enhanced Affordable Care Act subsidies. Mind you, these subsidies were at the really heart of why there was a 40-plus day government shutdown. And it's also pretty notable that some Democrats have recently even gone as far as to even praise Greene for helping push the bipartisan effort to fully release all the Jeffrey Epstein files that happen in Congress.

Now, in her resignation statement, she acknowledged that that effort of her helping with the Jeffrey Epstein files, that that contributed to the ongoing tensions between her and the president. But one Democratic lawmaker, Jasmine Crockett, didn't hold back on her criticism of Greene and had a lot to say about her resignation. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JASMINE CROCKETT (D-TX): Honestly, I was like, you've got to be kidding me. You're on the other side of the president for one week, and you can't take the heat. Imagine what it is to sit in my shoes to not only be on the opposite side of him, but to have people like her who are constantly fanning the flames of hate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DECHALUS: Now, Omar, on Capitol Hill she's considered a really polarizing figure, and it's worth noting that last week, Marjorie Taylor Greene even went as far as to apologizing, saying that she would no longer use the toxic rhetoric. And now, with her leaving office, it really does have more lawmakers wondering what is going to happen next, because, as I mentioned, some Democratic lawmakers really started trying to see her in the last few weeks as potentially being an ally on addressing key issues that are going to be addressed on Capitol Hill.

JIMENEZ: Camila DeChalus, appreciate the reporting.

I want to keep this conversation going with Ron Brownstein. He's a CNN senior political analyst and a Bloomberg opinion columnist.

Ron, good to see you. Look, Marjorie Taylor Greene says she is not running for president in 2028 and resigning in part to avoid really what would be a possible ugly primary challenge from a Trump endorsed candidate. But it also comes after she just helped force the release of these Epstein files.

What kind of political future does Greene have after this fallout with Trump?

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: You know, it's interesting. I mean, the beginning of her statement when she announced it, it sounded as though she was positioning herself to run as kind of a third party pox-on-both-their-houses populist, potentially for president or some other office.

And she was talking about the political industrial complex and how both parties have let down hard-working Americans. But then she kind of veered back into very conventional, you know, far-right territory, which made clear that I think she sees her future in the Republican Party.

[16:05:07]

We'll see if she runs for office again. It's easy to imagine her trying to make a detour into a media career. But either way, whether she's a candidate or a commentator, I suspect she's not going to go away as quietly as some of the others, like Thom Tillis in the Senate, who concluded that they could not survive in the Republican Party with Trump bearing down on them.

I suspect she is going to be more of a headache going forward for the president than some of those other scalps on his wall have been.

JIMENEZ: And, you know, sort of big picture looking at this dynamic here, you have, one, this eliminates or at least complicates the very slim majority in the House heading into a big spending bill that we're expecting to see at least portions of in January. But also when you're looking at it from a political movement standpoint, I mean, Marjorie Taylor Greene was one of the fiercest MAGA allies at one point.

BROWNSTEIN: Yes.

JIMENEZ: Does this show that there's a crack in the movement, or does this more show that President Trump still has an iron grip on the party?

BROWNSTEIN: You know, I look at this almost as the other shoe dropping from what we saw in the election earlier this month. Hard to believe that was this month. But, you know, what did we see in Virginia and New Jersey? We saw two Republican candidates, Jack Ciattarelli and Winston Earle-Sears, who refused to criticize Trump in any way, even when he took actions that were demonstrably hurting their states, like the DOGE cuts in Virginia or the cancellation of the gateway tunnel in New Jersey.

And what happened? On election day they were pulverized by voters who disapproved of Trump. Each of them lost over 90 percent of voters who said they disapproved of the way Trump was performing as president. Now, here's Marjorie Taylor Greene as kind of the bookend to that. She offers the other course, which is she establishes some independence from Trump. She criticizes him on occasion, you know, and basically shows she's not completely under his thumb.

And what does he do? He basically reads her out of the MAGA movement, despite all the ways in which he has defended him over the years. I mean, she talked in her statement about flying back the night after her father had surgery to vote against Trump's impeachment. So on the one hand, if you show independence from Trump, you have the risk he will be like Zeus throwing thunderbolts at you and, you know, declaring that you're not part of MAGA anymore. You're a traitor.

And if you don't, and you're anywhere but the kind of the most staunchly red constituency like Ciattarelli and like Earle-Sears, you face the risk that voters who are just dissatisfied with Trump will vote for you in really overwhelming numbers. And I think there are a lot of Republicans who are looking at these two paths right now and basically saying, is that it? Is that -- are those the only choices I have?

JIMENEZ: Yes. You know, you talked about this recent election, on the same day that Greene announced he was resigning, Trump welcomed new mayor-elect, New York mayor-elect Zohran Mamdani as well. Obviously, heading into this, you would think on paper and still policy wise appears to be one of his biggest political adversaries. But when you watch the dynamic between them, I mean, look, I wasn't in the room. I wasn't in there for the meeting.

BROWNSTEIN: Yes.

JIMENEZ: But they seemed pretty friendly, at the very least cordial, even when reporters were pointing out some very big key differences between them.

What do you make of how that meeting played out? And does that forecast to you anything going forward in terms of how that relationship will be handled?

BROWNSTEIN: Yes. Well, first of all, it's another example of what we were just talking about, right? Because Elise Stefanik, who is running for governor, no one has been kind of more slavish in defending and advocating for Trump in Congress. Her whole campaign is that Mamdani is a threat to the state and Kathy Hochul is going to enable and empower him. And there's Trump basically rejecting the central argument she's making, like rejecting the idea that he is a jihadist.

Look, Trump is a New Yorker. It was kind of a stunning, you know, kind of a body language and actual language from the president there. But color me skeptical, I'm also a New Yorker, like both of them, from Queens, and I have a hard time seeing how this survives. I mean, you saw it today, Mamdani reaffirming his belief that Trump is, quote, "a fascist."

And as you note, on policy, the administration is seeking not only in New York but in cities around the country to condition virtually every dollars the federal government provides cities for education, health care, disaster preparation, housing, on the cities, adopting a series of very conservative policies like complete cooperation with ICE, like rolling back transgender kids' access in high school sports, even limiting access to abortion.

It's just really hard to imagine that New York is going to get some sort of special exemption from that and that, you know, and that if they don't, Mamdani is going to be in court fighting Trump, on all of those fronts. You know, he had a 6.6 page detailed plan on how to Trump proof New York City. His first bullet point was end all cooperation with ICE. I think once that starts, this may look a little less chummy.

[16:10:02]

JIMENEZ: Yes. And also, this is well before Mamdani actually has taken office. Still, the mayor-elect to this point.

BROWNSTEIN: Yes.

JIMENEZ: Ron Brownstein, appreciate the analysis. Thanks for being here.

BROWNSTEIN: Hey, thanks for having me.

JIMENEZ: All right. Still to come, the stepped up immigration enforcement has had an impact on work sites, schools and neighborhoods. We're going to take a look at how it's affected people's access to much needed health care.

And up next, Secretary of State Marco Rubio says President Trump is pleased with the progress of Ukraine peace talks in Geneva. Hear what happened in today's negotiations.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:15:11]

JIMENEZ: Today significant developments in the effort to end Russia's war in Ukraine. Just moments ago, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy praised what he calls substantive results from today's diplomatic talks with United States officials in Switzerland. After a peace plan put forward by President Trump was criticized for favoring Russia, Zelensky says there are new signs the administration is listening to Ukraine.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRES. VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINE (through translator): Diplomacy has been activated which is good, very good. We expect that the results will be the right steps. The first priority is reliable peace, guaranteed security, respect for our people, respect for everyone who gave their lives defending Ukraine from Russian aggression.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JIMENEZ: CNN's Betsy Klein is live at the White House.

So, Betsy, the president had issued a Thursday deadline for Ukraine to agree to his peace plan. Based on what we heard today, does that still look likely?

BETSY KLEIN, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: Well, Omar, there could be some flexibility, and that comes after Secretary of State Marco Rubio said that major progress had been made toward ending Russia's war in Ukraine after talks in Geneva between top U.S. officials and their Ukrainian counterparts.

Now at the core of these discussions is this proposed 28-point peace plan. As you mentioned, it had received bipartisan criticism here in Washington. But Rubio today calling it a living, breathing document. Among some of the provisions in an earlier draft that CNN obtained Kyiv ceding territory to Russia, giving up any Ukrainian ambitions to join NATO, as well as limiting the size of its army.

But Rubio now says that many of those outstanding issues have been resolved in what he described as a very substantial way. And as you saw there, Zelenskyy saying that he believes that the U.S. is listening to Ukraine. But it's also worth noting that this is still going to require sign off from President Donald Trump, from Zelenskyy, as well as Russia. And that could be a major obstacle. Rubio saying that Russia has to agree in order for this to work.

And to underscore the fragility here, we saw President Trump lashing out earlier today in a post to social media. He wrote, quote, "Ukraine 'leadership' has expressed zero gratitude for our efforts." Of course, Zelenskyy going on to offer his own gratitude and thanks to the U.S. and to President Trump specifically on social media.

Now, Secretary Rubio says that it is still too soon to declare any victory or finality, but he did indicate some flexibility on the timeline. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARCO RUBIO, SECRETARY OF STATE: The deadline is we want to get this done as soon as possible. Obviously, you know, we'd love it to be Thursday, whether it's Thursday, whether it's Friday, whether it's Wednesday, whether it's Monday of the following week, we want it to be soon because people are going to -- between today and the time we deal with this, more people are going to die. More destruction is going to happen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KLEIN: Now top Trump administration officials including Secretary Rubio led that delegation. That included U.S. Special Envoy Steve Witkoff and U.S. Army Secretary Dan Driscoll. But there was another name in that delegation that stood out, and that is Jared Kushner. Kushner does not have a formal role in this iteration of the Trump administration, but he has been brought in for some of these trickier negotiations.

So very notable to see his name there, Omar. And we'll be watching as these negotiations continue in the days ahead.

JIMENEZ: His name all over the Israel and Gaza negotiations as well.

Betsy Klein, appreciate the reporting there from the White House.

All right. Coming up, two days after that friendly or at least what appeared to be a friendly Oval Office meeting, New York City's Mayor- elect Zohran Mamdani says he still believes President Trump is a fascist and he basically affirmed it while they were standing next to each other during that meeting. But we'll tell you what he just told CNN about where their relationship goes from here. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:23:21]

JIMENEZ: New today, after surprising everyone with what seemed like a friendly visit to the White House, New York Mayor-elect Zohran Mamdani says he's not changing his tune on his critical view of President Trump. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KRISTEN WELKER, NBC NEWS ANCHOR: Just to be very clear, do you think that President Trump is a fascist?

ZOHRAN MAMDANI (D), NEW YORK CITY MAYOR-ELECT: And after President Trump said that, I said yes. And --

WELKER: So you do?

MAMDANI: And that's something that I've said in the past, I say today. And I think what I appreciated about the conversation that I had with the president was that we were not shy about the places of disagreement about the politics that has brought us to this moment.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JIMENEZ: CNN correspondent Gloria Pazmino is with us now.

So, Gloria, you spoke with Mamdani earlier today. What's he saying now?

GLORIA PAZMINO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Omar, you know, in months and months of covering Zohran Mamdani one thing that he says very often is that he tries to cast political differences as strengths and not weaknesses. And I think the comments that we are seeing him make today regarding that label of the president, continuing to call him a fascist, is an example of that.

He was trying to tell us today that even though he disagrees with Donald Trump on almost everything, he still wanted to be able to go into the Oval Office inside the White House and have a conversation with him centered on his agenda and his priorities. Right? So mainly about affordability. That's what he told me the two talked about today. We've also learned that they spent quite a bit of time talking about real estate here in New York, how difficult it is to build housing in New York City.

They talked about whether or not they could compel Con Edison, the electricity giant, to bring down rates for New Yorkers, something that Mamdani has campaigned on. So we're seeing a moment here where you have two political figures that are very much on opposite ends of the aisle, but are appearing to make an effort to work together.

[16:25:09]

And I think that's what's so significant about this moment, especially in our politics today, where partisanship is so entrenched and it is often hard to find people who are willing to work together. Now, it's important to say we asked Mamdani again today if he really meant what he said, whether or not he was standing by that label calling the president a fascist. He told me, yes, and here's what he told me about how he prepared for this meeting.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAZMINO: Talk to me about how you deciphered his language.

MAMDANI: You know, I approached this meeting thinking about what I'd heard from New Yorkers who voted for the president. And when I asked them why they did so last November, they told me, cost of living, cost of living, cost of living. Oftentimes in a conversation between two politicians, the conversation rarely extends beyond either of them. Our conversation focused on New York City, and I think that is a point of shared focus, a point of shared admiration for the city that we both call home, and a city that is in danger of becoming a museum of where working people once were.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PAZMINO: Omar, I also think it's important to point out that in the last 24 hours or so, we have heard from President Trump saying that he will only send the National Guard into New York City if New York City feels that it needs it, and that happened immediately after his meeting with Mamdani. We also asked the mayor-elect today whether or not he had gotten any sort of commitment from the president about not increasing immigration enforcement here in New York City in the way that they have done in other cities around the country.

And while Mamdani said that he had not specifically gotten that commitment, he said that he was confident he would be able to sort of keep that enforcement at bay. We should point out that immigration enforcement here in the city has been taking place. We just have not seen sort of the largescale enforcement that we have seen in other cities recently, most recently in Charlotte and in Chicago, where you've been. So that's where this sort of relationship and the conversation matters

because I think a test of this incoming Mamdani administration will be how he gets along with President Trump and whether or not he can, in fact, stand up to him.

JIMENEZ: And we'll see whether what seems to be like a friendly dynamic now changes once he actually takes office.

Gloria Pazmino, appreciate the reporting as always.

All right. Still to come, the crisis developing for many immigrants as they skip doctor's office visits over fear of being targeted during recent ICE crackdowns. How this could become a bigger problem around the country. We'll talk about it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:32:25]

JIMENEZ: Affordability is now a big issue for everyday Americans. And Vice President J.D. Vance even conceded Americans are unhappy over prices.

CNN's John King visited Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, for this edition of "All Over the Map".

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Bethlehem is blue collar, full of people living paycheck to paycheck. Full of people who come to Jenique Jones for help.

JENIQUE JONES, PENNSYLVANIA DISTRICT 7 VOTER: My business assists people in repairing their credit, managing their finances and basically being financially organized.

KING: So, if you're busy, times are tough.

JONES: Absolutely, completely.

KING: And you're busy right now?

JONES: Super busy.

KING: What kind of stories are you hearing?

JONES: My husband lost all of his overtime. My kid's daycare went up. Can't afford the cost of food. Using credit cards for everyday expenses. No money left after the bills are paid. Pretty much just a whole bunch of financial mess.

KING: We changed presidents at the beginning of the year.

JONES: We did.

KING: And the guy who moved into the White House said that he was going to fix it. Several times he said it would be easy.

JONES: Absolutely.

KING: Has he fixed it?

JONES: Absolutely not. I'm definitely waiting for him to fix it.

KING (voice-over): Jones is a three-time Trump voter, but she says he has simply failed to keep his promise to lower the cost of living.

JONES: I'm -- I'm very let down by that. Very, very let down because I feel like it's only gotten worse.

KING: Pennsylvania ranks highest among the states in terms of food inflation. Grocery prices here up more than 8 percent this past year. That is way above the national average.

Housing costs are another piece of the affordability challenge. A one- bedroom apartment here in Bethlehem runs about $1,900 a month on average. That is up nearly 6 percent from last year.

KING (voice-over): This is Gentlemen's Barbershop. Customers gripe a lot about rising costs. Ashley Ruiz tries to help.

ASHLEY RUIZ, PENNSYLVANIA DISTRICT 7 VOTER: I'll tell the client, hey, if you get it cut a little shorter, the haircut will have a longer lifeline. Because I want them to feel like they're getting a service that will last longer so their money goes further.

KING (voice-over): She gets it because she does the tough math at home. Rent, food, childcare.

KING: All up.

RUIZ: They are a lot higher. So, I try to make wiser decisions and hope that things will get better.

KING (voice-over): A mix of politics around this table, but everyone agrees costs are up.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Insurance is crazy. It's coming on more crazy than next year.

KING (voice-over): Owner Ronald Corales is another three-time Trump voter. When clients or co-workers grumble about costs, Corales urges patience.

RONALD CORALES. PENNSYLVANIA DISTRICT 7 VOTER: Well, hopefully soon. I mean, like ...

KING: But it hasn't happened yet?

CORALES: Not really. We don't really see it at the moment. Like I said, I think we have to give him some time.

KING: Back in Bethlehem's heyday, this was its economic powerhouse, Bethlehem Steel.

[16:35:04]

But the blast furnace here last fired 30 years ago, November 1995. A lot of change, but Bethlehem still matters politically.

This is Pennsylvania's bellwether, Northampton County, a place known for picking winners. The winner here in Northampton has gone on to win statewide and win the White House in the last five presidential elections, and in 29 of the 32 presidential elections dating back to 1900.

Trump's win here in 2024 also helped flip this congressional district, Pennsylvania's seventh, from blue to red. Now, the margin in that House race was just 4,000 votes. And so, with affordability as issue number one, Democrats have this district high on the target list as they try to retake the House in next year's midterms.

KING (voice-over): John and Lisa Ronca own Cutters Bike Shop. Their teenage daughter rides competitively. Sometimes gets injured. They get their health insurance through the Obamacare exchange, and their renewal letter just came.

LISA RONCA, PENNSYLVANIA DISTRICT 7 VOTER: It's going to be triple and ...

JOHN RONCA, PENNSYLVANIA DISTRICT 7 VOTER: Triple this year.

L. RONCA: ... which equates to double the cost of what we pay for our mortgage for our house. So, that's so we can't keep that plan, to say the least.

KING (voice-over): Health care costs going up, their profit margin already down.

KING: Why? Is this a tariff question?

J. RONCA: Every, like, two to three months, we get letters from the companies, you know, we got to increase. We're having a 10 percent increase, another 10 percent increase. And it just keeps, keeps escalating.

KING (voice-over): Sales tend to spike around Christmas, but they're worried this year.

L. RONCA: Two-inch single speed kids bike was $250, which is still decent, decently high. $400 just in the last couple of months. So, it's kind of tough. I don't know how many kids bikes we're getting for Christmas. I mean, who want -- who's going to spend ...

KING: From $250 ...

L. RONCA: ... to $400.

KING: ... to $400 in a couple of months ...

L. RONCA: Yes.

KING: ... this year.

L. RONCA: Yes.

KING (voice-over): The Roncas don't like Trump and tend to vote blue. But they did support moderate Republican Charlie Dent a few years back when he was the congressman here.

J. RONCA: And it's like I have no problem voting for either side if the person's good for the area.

KING (voice-over): But their stress this November shapes their early thoughts about next November.

L. RONCA: Yes, just this year, it's -- it's a -- it's a big change.

KING: He keeps saying that that's a myth, that prices are down, that, you know, they're gone. Inflation's over.

L. RONCA: He doesn't go food shopping. I mean, I don't know. Yes, it's hard.

KING: How do you vote? Local or national?

J. RONCA: I -- I would -- I -- to me, I'm going to vote for a person who puts a check on them. You know what I mean?

L. RONCA: Yes.

J. RONCA: Who's going to -- who's going to rein --

KING: Right.

J. RONCA: -- with the President in it.

KING (voice-over): Frustration with prices and with the president in one of those places that tends to decide whether the country stays the course or shifts gears.

John King, CNN, Bethlehem, Pennsylvania.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JIMENEZ: And our thanks to John King.

Obviously, affordability top of mind for many folks thinking about Thanksgiving. And while we cover thanksgiving in the news around that, you can also join CNN for Thanksgiving morning live coverage of the biggest parades across the country and special performances and appearances by the Four Tops, Brad Paisley, The Temptations, The Harlem Gospel Choir, and more. John Berman, Erica Hill and Sara Sidner host "THANKSGIVING IN AMERICA".

Live coverage starts Thursday morning at 8:00 Eastern on CNN, and you can watch on the CNN app. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:43:04]

JIMENEZ: We've seen the images for months. ICE and Border Patrol agents in cities across the United States detaining and arresting people they suspect of being in the country illegally.

Now, research shows those actions are actually keeping many immigrants from seeking needed medical care for themselves and their children. A nationwide survey of health care workers reveals the negative impact this is having on the well-being of immigrant populations.

I want to bring in Dr. Michele Heisler, a professor of internal medicine and public health at the University of Michigan and medical director for Physicians for Human Rights, one of the groups that conducted that survey.

Doctor, thanks for being here.

You know, we're talking 84 percent of the nearly 700 surveyed health care workers reporting significant or moderate decreases in patient visits since January. Twenty-six percent of clinicians report that immigration enforcement has directly affected patient care. What are the main takeaways that you all found from the survey work you did?

DR. MICHELE HEISLER, MEDICAL DIRECTOR, PHYSICIANS FOR HUMAN RIGHTS: Yes, thank you.

A number of key findings. I think we found a number of ways that the clinicians and these are clinicians. Across 30 states we did try to oversample clinicians who do care for a high volume of immigrants, and what we really found is just a lot of ways that they are seeing harms.

First, many are afraid -- many adults are afraid to come to face-to- face clinics. They're finding people that need specialty care, being afraid. Sometimes they have to travel. And particular, they're finding -- although they we found that all services are being effective preventive services, chronic disease management. In particular, the effect on children was very marked. They're finding that -- you know, parents are afraid to bring their children for face-to-face visits.

[16:45:02]

And so, what clinicians are seeing is sometimes a child who needs care, is not coming to the face to face visit. Or sometimes the children are presenting alone while the parent stays. You know, emergency room departments saying that the child will appear in the emergency room while their parents wait outside. We're finding that children are not getting, necessary services.

It's also the other impacts, and the same way that I know you've been reporting on people not going to schools, because these are residents. These are residents, many of whom have lived many years so many of their children are U.S. citizens. Yet, the parents are afraid to sign them up for services that they're eligible for, SNAP, Medicaid. So that's another way that its harming the children.

And many other health implications, again, because these are very random. And, you know, people are afraid of being picked up when they drop their kids off at school or when they are on their way to the clinic. As, as you noted, 7 percent of the clinicians said that they're seeing ICE officials actually come into the clinic.

JIMENEZ: Yeah.

HEISLER: And so, children are being kept at home. They're not having time to play outside.

JIMENEZ: Yeah.

HEISLER: And which also has severe repercussions. The final really significant finding that many clinicians reported is the high level of psychological trauma that that they're seeing in the children, children sobbing, children crying. The children are terrified that they're going to be separated from their parents, that their parents will be picked up, detained, forcibly deported, and that they will not see their parents.

JIMENEZ: And, Doctor, just before we go I just want to mention, you know, you and I first met last spring when I was in Panama reporting on asylum seekers who had been expelled from the U.S. but couldn't go back to their home countries because they feared being persecuted or killed. You just got back from Honduras, where, as I understand, you were conducting medical evaluations on pregnant women and mothers who were deported there.

What can you tell us about what you found and how that dynamic maybe has changed over this year?

HEISLER: Yeah, I think one thing that we had not anticipated, we went in very much wanting to make sure that pregnant women were receiving good care, that lactating mothers were not being separated from their babies. I think what we hadn't anticipated on finding is actually how many parents are being forcibly separated from their children. I just -- I don't think, you know, we were seeing people just as they're getting off the airplane. And mothers were reporting that they were not given the opportunity.

You know, they were picked up, they were detained, you know, put on a plane. They were not being asked if they wanted to bring their children with them. So, I think that was not a finding that we expected. And we certainly did not expect it to be as common as we found.

And again, that's really heartbreaking. And so, you know, parents have a difficult decision. Again, as I said, many of their children are citizens by now. They're teenagers. Some of them some of the children don't really speak Spanish well.

And so, parents are now facing -- you know, if they're given the option, they're facing just the decision of what would be better for their children, to have them stay with a sister or grandparents.

JIMENEZ: Of course.

HEISLER: And we're seeing, you know, as well as not being given the choice to bring their children. So now they're dealing with, how do I -- how do I bring my children to me?

JIMENEZ: Yeah. Dr. Michele Heisler, got to lead the conversation there. But thank you so much for taking the time.

HEISLER: Yes. My pleasure. Thank you for having me.

JIMENEZ: Of course.

All right, everyone. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:53:25]

JIMENEZ: In the past week, the eyes of investors around the world were anxiously focused on one thing, chipmaker Nvidia. The world's most valuable company reported its quarterly earnings and they were huge, up 65 percent from the same quarter last year.

Now, Nvidia is forecasting at least $500 billion in A.I. chip sales by the end of next year. That's skyrocketing growth, though, is just one of the factors raising fears of the dreaded B-word.

Anna Cooban walks us through the odds of an A.I. bubble.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANNA COOBAN, CNN BUSINESS AND ECONOMICS REPORTER: So, the question of whether we're in an A.I. bubble and is it going to pop is a difficult one. We don't yet know, but there are a few indications that might help us answer this question.

So, take a look here. You've got capex spending by four of the big hitters. You've got Amazon, Alphabet, Microsoft, Meta. Now, capex is just a fancy way of saying companies spending money on physical stuff, and a lot of this physical stuff at the moment are data centers that are really powering this A.I. boom.

And you can see here that by 2030, these four companies alone, they're expected to have capex that is up to around $600 billion. And we have an estimate from the international energy agency that this year, it's expected that total global spending on data centers will supersede that of the amount spent on the global oil supply. So that gives you a sense of how much money is going into this.

And then this chart here, I mean, look at this -- look at this mess. This is just an enmeshed web of companies investing in each other, billions of dollars with the promise of other companies buying their technology.

[16:55:02]

Now, what's worrying investors is that it's all a little bit cozy. You know, you can imagine one quarter, one company has very bad results or disappointing results. Investors head for the exit, not only with that company, but other companies, too, because their financial fates are seen to be quite tied together.

And then here, we've got the S&P 500 price to earnings ratio. Now a high P to E sometimes can be an indication that a stock is overvalued. Not always. But I'm going to take you all the way back to the late '90s, the dot.com bubble which did then burst. It then popped.

We are now approaching the levels we saw around that period of history. It doesn't mean we're in a bubble. It doesn't mean it's going to pop. But yet again, it's another indication that's worrying investors, especially when you consider that a really big chunk of the S&P 500, its value is made up of tech companies that are spending big on A.I.

And then lastly, you've got Nvidia, one of the darlings of the A.I. world, hit a $5 trillion market cap just a few weeks ago. Its stock has fallen around 12 percent since then. And we've seen big investors, Peter Thiel's hedge fund, Softbank in Japan say that they've dumped all of their Nvidia stock..

Now for different reasons. It doesn't mean that they don't think the company is valuable or that it's going to do well, but it is an indication that they aren't seeing that their best results, their best growth is going to come from this company.

Again, another crack in the picture that up until this point for A.I. has been nothing but positive and rosy, and that is making people worried and asking the question, are we in a bubble and is it going to pop?

Anna Cooban, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JIMENEZ: All right. Anna, thank you so much.

On tonight's episode of "The Whole Story" takes -- it takes a closer look at exorcisms. Yes. You heard that correctly. Exorcisms.

CNN's David Culver went to Arizona, home to one of the fastest growing Catholic dioceses in the country, and spoke with an exorcist who has never spoken publicly about the rite before.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVID CULVER, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Omar, what struck me right away was how different this is from the Hollywood image that we all have when we hear the word exorcism. Now, we shot this story over several months, and we focused in on Arizona. It's a state with this really unique mix of cultures, traditional faiths and new age spiritual practices. It's also home to one of the fastest growing Catholic communities in the country.

And on Sunday night, we're going to introduce you to several exorcists. Some are very public, others are extremely private. One Catholic exorcist who asked us to hide his identity, told us he is doing more exorcisms now than at any point in his 25-plus-years in that role. Now, to see whether that extended beyond Arizona, we reached out to all 196 Catholic dioceses and archdioceses across the U.S.

Of the 48 that responded, more than two dozen told us that they have seen an increase in inquiries for exorcisms over the past two decades. Across other Christian churches, the ministers who perform deliverances, which essentially is another word used for casting out demons or exorcisms. They say they're seeing more people show up as well.

Now, what stood out to us, though, wasn't the spectacle. Its the vulnerability. People tell us that they turn to deliverances because they feel like they are out of options. They're dealing with depression, addiction, grief, fear, you name it. Some are folks that you might never expect would seek this out.

Here's a look at some of our reporting.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED BOY: A tunnel.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You got a tunnel.

UNIDENTIFIED BOY: I got a tunnel.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Okay. Oh, it's my favorite one. Who is that?

I had reached desperation in my life countless times before. I had tried in the past to take my life. Like I said, I just was broken. And there was a spirit who had such a strong hold on me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go in the name of Jesus Christ, come out of her.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The spirit was a demon.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go, come out --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, leave her all the way.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: See, demons come in to trauma. They come in to the trauma in your life.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go, go. Get out!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was beaten up as a child.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go! UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We'll have to fight all our lives because Satan is always going to come against us.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Get out!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get out of.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're infected by demons.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CULVER: Omar, a lot of folks told us that they feel unseen or unsupported elsewhere. And that's where this gets a bit complicated. Misreading symptoms can be dangerous. But in this journey, we also saw real community, real belief, and people who said that this gave them hope when they didn't have much left.

We wanted to understand all of it -- the faith, the fear, the risks and why this spiritual searching seems to be growing even as fewer Americans identify with organized religion. That's the world we take you into this Sunday night -- Omar.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JIMENEZ: Thanks, David.

This all new episode, "The Exorcist", airs tonight at 8:00 Eastern.

And thank you for joining me today. I'm Omar Jimenez.