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U.S. And Ukraine Officials Talk To End War; New Orleans Braces For Operation "Swamp Sweep"; Congresswoman Greene Laughing Off 2028 Theories; Beirut Air Strike Killed Hezbollah Chief Of Staff. Aired 5- 6p ET

Aired November 23, 2025 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[17:00:00]

DAVID CULVER, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We wanted to understand all of it -- the faith, the fear, the risks and why this spiritual searching seems to be growing even as fewer Americans identify with organized religion. That's the world we take you into this Sunday night -- Omar.

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: All right. Thanks, David. This all- new episode "The Exorcists" airs tonight at 8 Eastern. And thank you for joining me today. I'm Omar Jimenez. More "CNN Newsroom" coming up.

JESSICA DEAN, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You're in the "CNN Newsroom." Hi, everyone. I'm Jessica Dean here in New York. And new tonight, tremendous progress. That's how Secretary of State Marco Rubio is describing talks today with Ukrainian officials to end Russia's war, suggesting that that Thursday deadline set by Trump to agree to the plan could shift.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARCO RUBIO, UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF STATE: The deadline is we want to get this done as soon as possible. Obviously, you know, we'd love it to be Thursday. We'd love to be -- ultimately, the important point today is that we have made substantial progress. We've really moved forward. So, I feel very optimistic that we're going to get there in a very reasonable period of time very soon. Our goal is to end this war as soon as possible, but we need a little more time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: Both sides projecting optimism but providing little detail when asked if Ukraine was willing to make major concessions to Russia. Under this current proposal, Ukraine would be giving up significant portions of land to Russia, which would be recognized by the United States. It would also call for Ukraine to limit the size of its army. It's something European leaders say would make Ukraine vulnerable to another invasion.

Let's bring in CNN senior White House reporter Betsy Klein, who has been monitoring this today. Betsy, we heard from the secretary of state. The administration clearly, really wants to get this done. What more are you learning about what's happening behind the scenes as they try to reach that goal?

BETSY KLEIN, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Well, there's certainly a lot of cautious optimism here at the White House after what has really been a bit of a day for messaging whiplash. We heard from the president just after 9:00 this morning lashing out at Ukraine, repeating a familiar refrain, that they have not been grateful enough. He wrote in a post to social media -- quote -- "Ukraine 'leadership' has expressed zero gratitude for our efforts."

And then hours later, Secretary of State Marco Rubio emerging from those very high stakes talks between U.S. and Ukrainian officials in Switzerland, casting a very optimistic tone. He said that tremendous progress had been made. And at the crux of these negotiations is this 28-point peace plan to end Russia's war in Ukraine.

CNN obtained a draft of that plan. The earlier draft said that Kyiv would give up significant territory to Russia, that they would give up any ambitions to join NATO, as well as limiting the size of the Ukrainian army.

But Rubio says that many of the outstanding issues have been resolved in what he described as a very substantial way. Now, he declined to detail what those remaining issues are when pressed repeatedly by reporters. Zelenskyy did say in a new video that he believes that Trump's team is listening to his officials.

But it's worth noting that any deal still is going to require sign-off from President Trump, from President Zelenskyy, as well as Russia, and that is going to be the final and most significant obstacle there. Rubio was asked about the president's comments and turn of change of mind earlier today. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUBIO: Oh, was very positive. I'm telling you, today was the most productive day we've had.

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Because he said they were ungrateful earlier.

RUBIO: Well, today -- and we've talked to him since -- I think he's quite pleased at the reports we've given him about the amount of progress that has been made.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KLEIN: Now, top administration officials, including Rubio and Army Secretary Dan Driscoll, along with Special Envoy Steve Witkoff, were participating in these talks.

But there was another notable name that was part of this delegation, and that is Jared Kushner, the president's son-in-law. Kushner does not have a formal role in the Trump administration anymore, but he has been brought on to negotiate some thornier foreign policy issues. So, it is quite notable that he was part of these discussions which, Jessica, are ongoing.

DEAN: All right. Betsy Klein with the very latest there from the White House, thank you for your reporting.

We are joined now by Democratic Representative Gregory Meeks of New York. He serves on the House foreign affairs and financial services committees. Congressman, thank you so much for being here with us on this Sunday. We appreciate it. Betsy just going through the latest there --

REP. GREGORY MEEKS (D-NY): Good to be with you.

DEAN: Good to see you -- on these talks in Switzerland about Ukraine, which have been described as constructive and productive. I'm curious what you think about this plan being the basis for ending the war and your thoughts on what we're hearing out of those meetings.

MEEKS: Well, my thought is that this is not a peace plan, it's a surrender plan. I think that if you look at those 28 points of which was laid out earlier this last week, it basically gives Russia more than Russia would have asked for.

[17:05:03]

And if the president says that this war would have never started if he was the president, it is because he would have given Russia everything that they wanted from the very beginning and assisted them in getting it because that's exactly what he's doing now. He's forcing Ukraine to surrender and giving Russia everything that they wanted before they went to war.

So, yes, quite naturally, it would not have been a war because he would have given them all the territory they wanted. He would have made sure that Ukraine did not have a military equipment and the military -- the strength that it has. They would have made sure there was no security guarantees. They could never join NATO. Those are all the things that Putin wanted when he went into the wa So, this is just a surrender and giving everything to Vladimir Putin. That makes him the absolute victor of his illegal and death-giving incursion into Ukraine.

DEAN: And the administration has said, essentially, look, they're trying to end this war, everybody is going to have to give something here to get this ended. What would you, congressman, say is the response to that? What is a better plan than what's happening right now?

MEEKS: Well, I would ask you one thing that Russia has given. What's one thing that Russia has given? How is Russia being held accountable at all? Give one thing. The children, the thousands of children they took from Ukraine, that's not included. The sanctions that should have been on Russia for its oil and what it has been doing and selling it illegally, that hasn't been happening. Tell me one thing, just one, that Russia is giving up. They're giving up absolutely nothing.

It is a complete surrender. You know, if this had happened in World War II, it wouldn't have been a Churchill victory, it would have been a Chamberlain moment, and that's where we are right now. And history will record it. This is devastating, if this goes through. As Zelenskyy said last week, you're putting me in a situation where either I surrender or our biggest supporter and the one that we relied upon moves away.

And I think it also hurts us with our European allies because if we do this to Ukraine, then what does that mean for the rest of NATO? Because that means Putin can continue to go wherever he wants, knowing that the United States of America may not have their back.

DEAN: We heard from several senators yesterday at a security conference. They said the secretary of state, Marco Rubio, told them this plan was Russia's, in their words, wish list and not reflective of the White House's position. Rubio has since denied this. I just want -- this is Republican Senator Mike Rounds. Let's just listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MIKE ROUNDS (R-SD): What he told us was that this was not the American proposal. This was a proposal which was received by someone who has identified and they believe to be representing Russia in this proposal. It was given to Mr. Witkoff. We don't know among ourselves right now whether there was further questioning or any modifications that were done at that time. Any other suggestions along that line?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: Again, that's Republican Senator Mike Rounds saying that last night. The secretary of state has denied that and said that's not the case. But congressman, there was some confusion. There was -- obviously, something was lost in translation there between those parties. Do you feel like the administration needs to explain more about its approach here?

MEEKS: Well, absolutely, because not one of our European allies were part of this. You know, I just met with some last week who were very concerned about this administration and what they were doing and how they were doing it. Ukraine wasn't part of it.

It seemed to me that this was going to be a fair negotiation to end the war. Others, European allies and definitely Ukraine should have been a part of it. But it seems as though, just what the senator said, this was something that was negotiated only between the United States and Russia. That's it. And you don't get peace, a peace conversation in that regard, in that way. So, it seems to me this is absolutely weakness by appeasement and not peace through strength.

It is unbelievable to me that we will get to this point where it will devastate Ukraine. But I will also predict it will hurt us with our European allies for now and for many years to come. They will not be able to depend upon America. There is something with the president of the United States and Vladimir Putin, as we saw not too long ago. He welcomed Vladimir Putin to America with a red-carpet arrival, and yet in the White House berated President Zelenskyy.

[17:09:04] It just shows you that there is something that I believe that maybe the Russian president has on President Trump. Maybe it's letting him build more hotels or whatever in Russia. But this is an absolute surrender. It is not a negotiation for peace. It is a surrender if, in fact, this goes through with the 28 points that the president has outlined.

DEAN: I want to ask you about another issue because you're one in a group of House Democrats that has introduced this measure that would stop the Trump administration from conducting these strikes on alleged drug boats without congressional approval. Senate Democrats, they've tried and failed in their chamber. The Republicans also control your chamber. Realistically, does this go anywhere in a Republican- controlled House?

MEEKS: Well, look, yes, I think that we're talking in a bipartisan way with my War Powers bill that we've introduced because we know that the War Powers belongs to the United States Congress, not the president of the United States.

It is illegal, what the president is doing now in the Caribbean and in the Pacific Ocean, claiming that it is -- he's after drugs coming out of Venezuela when we know that the drugs that he is talking about, fentanyl, is not in Venezuela, as well as, you know, cocaine is not grown in Venezuela. There's no due process and it's causing us again to lose credibility with our allies.

Already, we've heard where the U.K. is not going to share intelligence with us in the region. And we have always had the opportunity to share intelligence and work collectively with our friends and our allies. And it seems that this administration chooses to work with those who are -- who are our adversaries, not those who are our allies. It is a dangerous situation, you know, that will play itself out not just now, but down the road and it will be take decades to reverse.

And that's why this president needs to stop now. And the Congress, the United States Congress, needs to institute its power and not allow President Trump to be the de facto speaker because, unfortunately, any time we put these bills up for a vote on the floor, the speaker, Johnson, prevents a vote because he knows overwhelmingly it would pass by Democrats and Republicans. And so, Donald Trump, the de facto speaker, will tell him, do whatever you can to prevent a vote on the House floor.

And that's why you see so many motions to discharge now because it seems the only way we can get a vote from the full House on some of the most important issues that confronts the United States of America right now.

DEAN: All right. Congressman Gregory Meeks, thanks for your time. We appreciate it.

MEEKS: Thank you for having me.

DEAN: Still ahead, the Trump administration planning a new wave of immigration arrests in the city of New Orleans. We are going to talk to a state lawmaker about he's expecting and how his community is preparing for that. Plus, the battle over funding the government may be over but a new fight is just beginning, and that's the struggle to address the nation's health care system and it is dividing the GOP. More on that when we come back.

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DEAN: New Orleans is preparing to be the next target of President Trump's immigration crackdown. It's something the Associated Press says will be called Operation "Swamp Sweep" and it's scheduled to start the first week of December. Sources say the operation will be led by Border Patrol Commander Gregory Bovino, who has already overseen aggressive campaigns in Los Angeles, Chicago, and most recently Charlotte, North Carolina.

Louisiana State Representative Matthew Willard is joining us now. He has also just won the election for at-large seat on the New Orleans City Council. Thank you so much for being here with us. We really appreciate it. We'll start first --

STATE REP. MATTHEW WILLARD (D-LA): Thanks for having me, Jessica.

DEAN: Yes. It's nice to see you. Have you or your fellow lawmakers been briefed at all by the federal government on what's coming your way?

WILLARD: No, we have not been briefed by anybody with the federal government. Our police chief here in the city of New Orleans has had conversations with Border Patrol. The information that has been provided is not reassuring and not really many details being provided. So, we're really in the dark.

DEAN: Yes. What's -- when you say it's not reassuring, what -- what -- why do you say that?

WILLARD: It sounds like they'll still wear masks. They have a quota to hit like they've had in other cities. So, certainly don't understand the strategy of them coming to the city of New Orleans. And so, we're -- we're really just fearful of the unknown. And looking at the coverage that we've seen in other cities by CNN, we certainly don't want that here in the city of New Orleans, which is a welcoming place for visitors from all over the world.

DEAN: Yes. And -- and you noted that -- that they -- you've been told they do have a quota.

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The Associated Press is reporting that the federal border agents aim to arrest roughly 5,000 people in this operation. What does it indicate to you that there is this set number they're trying to achieve before they even get on the ground there in or before they even begin, let's say, this operation in New Orleans?

WILLARD: It -- it tells me they have no strategy, they have no real plan. It's -- it's really just to invoke fear in people and -- and sort of a power move, a demonstration of power. There has been no research or data saying that there are 5,000 people here illegally, who are criminals. I have concerns about people's due process rights being violated. And, you know, I think when you come in with a set quota, we can expect some -- some bad things to happen, and that's certainly my concern here in the city of New Orleans.

DEAN: Yes. And -- and your city is unique in -- in some of the -- in comparison to these other cities that have been targeted for these crackdowns. It's -- your state is run by a Republican governor, Jeff Landry, who is supportive of the president's immigration policies. Your mayor-elect of New Orleans is a Democrat Mexican-American immigrant. What do you make of the local and statewide politics there in your state? And do you think that your governor will step in in any way?

WILLARD: If he steps in, it'll just be to support President Trump more. We certainly have no shortage of issues here in the State of Louisiana. It would really be good to have strong federal partners who would like to problem solve on those issues for us. I certainly don't believe that illegal immigration in Louisiana is a problem. We're not bordered by any other country. So, for Border Patrol to come into the State of Louisiana really makes no sense to me.

Earlier this summer, we had an issue with ICE where they arrested and detained the woman who has been here for decades. She's married to an American citizen. And Representative Scalise had to intervene so that she can be released. And so, obviously, that's a violation of that woman's right to due process. And I'm afraid we'll have more examples of that once Border Patrol comes in and becomes active in the city of New Orleans.

DEAN: I do want to talk a little bit about your community because I'm sure you're talking to people there in advance of all of this. In Charlotte, North Carolina last week, some 30,000 students missed school on Monday during the -- the immigration sweeps there. We also reported on some businesses and restaurants closing. Are you concerned about that happening in your community?

WILLARD: It's -- it's already happening. We've had business owners tell some of their employees to stay home. There's certainly a panic with some parents in the city of New Orleans, really the greater New Orleans area, because we've heard rumors that Border Patrol will go into the schools or they're targeting pick up and drop off locations for the kids or even bus stops in detaining children.

And so, parents are trying to make what's in the best interest of their kids, those decisions, and are weighing should they just keep those kids at home. So, there is mass chaos and confusion. We've had parents reach out to the school systems, seeing if they could go back to virtual learning while Border Patrol is active in the city of New Orleans. So, that's certainly something that we don't want. There's an economic disruption there. There's also the loss of learning and education if kids are held back from school or even if they pivot to the virtual learning aspect.

So, a lot of fear, you know, but, thankfully, here in the city of New Orleans, we like to rise up and support each other. So there has been some nonprofits that are stepping in and, you know, if families are afraid to leave their home, which we do have many of those families, there are nonprofits who are willing to bring them food and other necessities while, you know, they decide to stay home and try to protect what's in the best interest of their families.

DEAN: All right. Matthew Willard coming to us from New Orleans, thank you so much. We do appreciate it.

WILLARD: Thank you, Jessica.

DEAN: Still ahead, once a MAGA darling, now completely breaking away from politics. Why Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene says she's laughing off people's theories of a potential bid for president, and why she says that will never happen.

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DEAN: After announcing she's resigning from her House seat, Republican Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene is now shutting down speculation she has any plans to run for a certain other office. The Georgia lawmaker posting -- quote -- "I'm not running for president and never said I wanted to and have only laughed about it when anyone would mention it." On Friday, Greene said she was stepping away from Congress after publicly feuding with her former ally, President Trump.

CNN's Camila DeChalus has been following this this weekend. And Camila, now, we hear from her again. After speculation has been mounting over what she might be doing, she says she does not see herself running for president.

CAMILA DECHALUS, CNN REPORTER: That's right, Jessica. After she announced her resignation, there was a lot of speculation of what she was going to do next because she did not mention what her next steps are going to be.

But now that she shut down these rumors that she was eyeing a 2028 White House run, now a lot of lawmakers even across the aisle have really weighed in on what her resignation means. Some Democrats say that they're not really quite sure what to make of her decision, but they have noted that they were kind of counting on her vote in any upcoming deal to try to deal with the extension of enhanced Affordable Care Act subsidies. Mind you, this is what was at the heart of the issue of the government shutdown that lasted for more than 40 days.

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And it's also notable that some Democrats recently even went as far as praising Greene for helping push the bipartisan effort to try to release all the Jeffrey Epstein files that happened in Congress.

Now, her resignation statement, really in it, she acknowledged that this effort of her, helping to try to push to release all these files, really contributed to the ongoing tensions between herself and President Trump. But one Democratic lawmaker, Jasmine Crockett, did not shy away from criticizing Greene and even weighing in on what her resignation means. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JASMINE CROCKETT (D-TX): Honestly, I was like, you've got to be kidding me. You're on the other side of the president for one week and you can't take the heat. Imagine what it is to sit in my shoes to not only be on the opposite side of him, but to have people like

her who are constantly fanning the flames of hate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DECHALUS: Now, Jessica, on Capitol Hill, Marjorie Taylor Greene was really known as being a polarizing figure. And it's worth noting that last week, she went as far as apologizing, saying that she was no longer going to use that toxic rhetoric. And now with her leaving office, it really has more lawmakers wondering what's going to happen next, especially when there are some Democratic lawmakers that saw her as a potentially being an ally on key issues that lawmakers are going to address in the upcoming weeks.

DEAN: All right. Camilla, thank you so much for that. And here to talk more about this with us, Democratic strategist Meghan Hays and Republican strategist T.W. Arrighi. Good to see both of you. Happy Sunday night to you.

T.W., let's start first with you. Just -- look, we've watched this all play out with Marjorie Taylor Greene, ending, of course, with her saying she's resigning on Friday, and now she's saying, I'm not running for president, despite what anyone might say. What does it say to you that we've seen this happened and that it really kind of happened in a kind of short amount of time?

T.W. ARRIGHI, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Yes. Well, first, I actually kind of think it's a bit of a savvy move. First of all, I don't think it's unusual for somebody to say they're not running for president --

DEAN: We've seen that before.

ARRIGHI: That's not unusual at all.

(LAUGHTER)

But, look, this was smart. Marjorie Taylor Greene is still quite popular among the MAGA base. And even if she did win a primary against a Trump-funded opponent, she'd come out of that pretty damaged. Not only that. If she said, I wasn't going to run, I'm not going to run again, she'd be dogged by Trump questions nonstop in the halls of Congress. This now gives her some flexibility, some breathing room. She could launch a podcast. She could still be outspoken about issues that matter and keep her brand more intact as she plans a future move.

I think, like most people, I was shocked when it happened. But after more thought, I think it's actually quite savvy.

DEAN: And Meghan, her absence is going to obviously -- temporarily, there will be a special election, but shrink House Speaker Mike Johnson's very slim majority. And we have just seen these cracks kind of developing within, especially the House GOP. You think about the Epstein files when it looked like, you know, they were going to see a lot of

Republicans voting against what the president wanted, and then the president, of course, changed course.

But what do you think about what we might see in this time period? Do you see Democrats trying to capitalize on a shrinking majority for this moment in time?

MEGHAN HAYS, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Yes, absolutely. And I also think a lot of these Republicans are looking to their midterm elections and starting to realize that maybe they can't side with Donald Trump and they're going to have to do different things and negotiate with Democrats to get some legislation passed that would be good for folks in their district. So, I think Democrats will absolutely take advantage of a slim majority.

I also agree with T.W. that this was a really savvy move for Marjorie Taylor Greene. She's going to be able to make a lot of money not being in Congress and still be able to keep her brand and be a thorn in the side of not only Democrats, but also Republicans and MAGA Republicans.

DEAN: Yes. T.W., Meghan said something that I'm curious your thoughts on it. As we turn to these midterms and these candidates, especially in the House where they all have to run again, you know, when you're in a midterm like this, a lot of times, in some districts, you need to start differentiating yourself from the president a little bit. You know, in some districts, it won't matter for them.

But if you're some of these Republicans, what are -- how are they thinking about all of this as you're now looking toward President Trump, essentially, in his last term, and he's had such control over them for the better part of a decade? Do you think we'll see more people kind of stepping outside of where the president is as they start to run for reelection?

ARRIGHI: Well, I think what you saw after this month's elections was Donald Trump had a pretty clear understanding of the fact that we got away from some core messages on affordability and on the economy. And I think Donald Trump has been pretty clear to candidates across the country that we need to return to that. His political operation is talking to candidates every single day to get us back on track there. And I would concur working with candidates myself all across the country.

[17:34:59]

So, I think if we can focus our message back on the issues that matter, not just personality conversations regarding the president and other people, I think we're going to be in lot stronger position come 2026.

DEAN: Meghan, do you think that Republicans can effectively do that?

HAYS: You know, it's interesting. I'm not sure that they can when President Trump is setting the agenda and his agenda has not been extremely strong on the economy. He has been doing things like building a ballroom and having tariffs, which are just a tax on the American people. So, I just -- it's interesting that, yes, I think that the candidates do want to get to that. It's just going to be a matter of if they can get the president to actually have policies that then trickle down to them that make them look like they do care about the economy.

DEAN: Yes. And T.W., what about the issue of health care? Because obviously, that was the whole thing. You know, that was driving this government shutdown. There are some Republicans that we've talked to, both in the House and the Senate, who are open to having these conversations about extending these subsidies and trying to figure out a bipartisan solution.

What advice would you be giving them right now in terms of, again, looking ahead to how they're going to be talking? You're talking to candidates who are out -- you know, going to be out in the field trying to talk to people. What is your advice to them in Congress right now about having that health care discussion and trying to make a deal or not make a deal?

ARRIGHI: Yes, we saw reporting today that Donald Trump is probably preparing a bill and some language, a framework, to extend those subsidies. Look, I think Obamacare is bad. The Affordable Care Act was anything but affordable. And right now, it's being propped up by billions and billions of dollars of government subsidies. That can't continue. However, we can't put that burden on the American people who are seeing their costs rise constantly.

And what I'm telling to Republican candidates across the country is we also need to have our solutions. We are not experiencing a free and competitive market in health care. Obamacare is an abject failure, but having no Obamacare is also not an option. We need to make this industry more competitive, maybe think about breaking up either insurance companies or hospital networks or whatever. We need creative solutions to this problem. And if we do and we're out in front on this issue, an issue that affects every single American, the people and the voters will respect us more on the issue.

DEAN: And so, Meghan, what do Democrats do with that? Because, obviously, they want to make that, they want to own that, they want to make that a key issue in the midterms. HAYS: So, I think Democrats have been owning the issue of health care, but I do agree that there needs to be a viable solution if you don't want Obamacare. And look, putting the burden back on the government to subsidize isn't the strongest solution. It's the only solution we have at the moment. But Republicans have had 10 plus years to come up with a different solution, and they've never had one and they still don't.

So, I think that this needs to be a bipartisan issue where folks get together and come up with a better solution. Republicans' own pollsters are saying that people want affordable health care. It's like nine in 10. Americans want more affordable health care. So, I think that that is an issue that can be bipartisan, and Democrats and Republicans need to work together on this because it actually is for the betterment of our country.

DEAN: We'll see if they can do that. T.W. and Meghan, great to see you. I thank both of you. Really appreciate it.

ARRIGHI: Thank you.

DEAN: And still to come, President Trump claiming Ukraine has shown -- quote -- "zero gratitude" for U.S. efforts to end Russia's invasion. We're going to break down why Ukrainian leaders are hesitant to say yes to the peace plan. Stay with us. You're in the "CNN Newsroom."

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DEAN: U.S. and Ukrainian officials emerging from meetings today in Switzerland with both sides saying they made progress on talks to end Russia's war in Ukraine. Secretary of State Marco Rubio saying President Trump is pleased with how those talks are going. He suggested Thursday may not be exactly a hard deadline.

We are joined now by CNN military analyst, retired U.S. Air Force Colonel Cedric Leighton. Colonel Leighton, good to see you. We are getting these readouts today that seem, you know, either optimistic or cautiously optimistic from both sides. What are your takeaways from what we've been hearing?

CEDRIC LEIGHTON, CNN MILITARY ANALYST, RETIRED AIR FORCE COLONEL: Yes, Jessica, there are several aspects to this that are quite interesting. Obviously, we're looking at this through the lens of the released -- previously released 28 points, and that, you know, of course, put a different flavor on things.

It appears as if the worst parts of the 28 points may be in the rear- view mirror but, you know, I think it's too early to say that. There are a lot of things here where Ukraine could be forced to give up things like territory, limit to troops, things like that, and that, of course, would be very, very bad for Ukraine.

But right now, what we're seeing is that, you know, based on what the secretary of state has said, we're seeing them working towards some kind of an agreement between the Ukrainians and the U.S., and then moving that forward to present to the Russians. But we'll see how that actually goes.

DEAN: Right. And then there is the question of getting Russia to agree to any of these changes, which could be complicated in and of itself. They would likely have to apply some pressure to get them to a yes on this.

LEIGHTON: Yes, for sure. And that's one of the key things that I think is going to be quite interesting, Jessica, because Russia has certain red lines, and those include basically, you know, eliminating Ukraine as a viable sovereign state.

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The 28-point plan that we saw earlier this, you know, weekend, would have basically done that for the Russians. But anything that the Ukrainians would offer as a counterproposal would surely, surely serve to guarantee their sovereignty, at least as best as they could. So, that might be something that the Russians reject, and that's something we have to watch out for.

DEAN: And it hasn't been ruled out that a no from Zelenskyy on this would result in the U.S. withdrawing support. Not getting U.S. weapons would hurt Ukraine, of course, but maybe not as much as it would three years ago, partly because of the role of drones. Russia now has its own drone unit known as Rubicon. But drones, as you've explained to us many times, have played such a key role in this war. How does that change the dynamics here?

LEIGHTON: So, this is, you know, something that we really haven't quite seen the end of because the Rubicon unit that the Russians have developed is basically mirrored on Ukraine's drone service. The Ukrainians have an unmanned aerial systems unit, basically a service on par with their Air Force, their Army, their Navy, and that was the game changer for the first part of this war.

So, what the Russians have done is they've played catch up, and that has -- had a major impact. For example, forced the Ukrainians out of the Kursk region of Russia when they occupied a small portion of that territory.

And it's also been pretty clear that when you look at some of the more detailed areas in the Donbas region and Donetsk specifically and around Pokrovsk, you see that drones have been a key element in this.

And what the Russians have done is they've used technology to their advantage. They've created the first fiber optic- powered, well, enabled drones, and that means that they can't be jammed.

And that's the key thing. This is basically a war not only with drones, but also with electronic warfare. And the side that can best exploit the electromagnetic spectrum is the one that has the advantage, at least tactically and at times strategically as well. DEAN: Yes. All right. Colonel Cedric Leighton, it's great to see you. Thank you so much for that. More to come on this. It continues to change really by the hour, but thank you so much.

LEIGHTON: You bet, Jessica. Any time.

DEAN: Still ahead, new airstrikes from Israel, this time hitting the densely-populated capital of Lebanon, the top Hezbollah leader they say they have killed, and the number of injuries Lebanese officials are reporting.

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DEAN: New tonight out of Lebanon, Israel is saying it killed Hezbollah's second most senior leader during airstrikes on southern Beirut. According to Israel's military, the airstrikes, which are the first in months on Lebanon's capital city, targeted Hezbollah's chief of staff. Lebanese officials say five people were killed, 20 injured.

CNN international diplomatic editor Nic Robertson has the latest on this now from Jerusalem. Nic?

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NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, Haytham Ali Tabatabai was the number two in Hezbollah, the chief of staff. Israeli officials said that he had the blood of both Israelis and Americans on his hands, that he had been at special forces, commander training forces in Syria, training them in Yemen as well. But what we've heard from the prime minister's office here is a very clear message, that they believe that Hezbollah is trying to regroup itself.

And we've seen an uptick in the number of Israeli airstrikes on Hezbollah positions or what the IDF says are Hezbollah positions in the south of Lebanon over the last few days and recent weeks. It's sort of significant because the ceasefire agreement that was made between Israel and Lebanon almost a year ago called for Hezbollah to disarm and get out of the border region.

But what Israel has been maintaining is that Hezbollah is sort of trying to set up back in that region. So, a decision clearly taken to go after this number two in Hezbollah and go back to striking in the suburbs of Beirut, hitting this multi-storey building in the southern suburbs, hitting it with a direct precision strike, the Israelis say, sort of on the fourth or fifth floor of this apartment building. As you say, five people killed. Twenty-28, according to Lebanese officials, injured in that.

But Israel's prime minister coming down very clearly and indicating that this may not be the last strike.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, PRIME MINISTER OF ISRAEL (through translator): The policy I'm leading is absolutely clear. Under my leadership, the State of Israel will not allow Hezbollah to rebuild its power and will not allow it to once again pose a threat to the State of Israel.

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ROBERTSON: So, the Lebanese president has called on the international community to do more to pressure Israel, to curb its attacks here. Similarly, in the south of Israel, in Gaza, to the south of Israel, Hamas calling on the international community to do the same there with the IDF, with Israel, to push them to cut back on strikes, increasing strikes in Gaza as well. In the past 24 hours, more than 20 people killed, according to Hamas officials in the past, according to health officials inside of Gaza in the past 24 hours, and many others injured as well.

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DEAN: All right. Nic Robertson in Jerusalem for us, thank you so much for that. Just days after a surprisingly friendly meeting with President Trump in the Oval Office, York City Mayor-elect Zohran Mamdani says he still believes that the president is a fascist.

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DEAN: You're the "CNN Newsroom," everyone. I'm Jessica Dean here in New York. Republican Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene --