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White House Says Ukrainians Believe Current Draft of Proposal "Reflects Their National Interests"; Mayor-elect Zohran Mamdani Not Backing Down on Trump Fascist Label; Representative Marjorie Taylor Greene Says She's Not Running for President; Senator Bill Cassidy Stresses Vaccine Safety Despite Updated CDC Web Site; Sen. Cassidy Cast a Key Vote to Confirm RFK Jr. as HHS Secretary, AAA: Record Travel Forecast for Thanksgiving Week; All-New Episode "The Exorcists" Aired 7-8p ET

Aired November 23, 2025 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[19:00:34]

JESSICA DEAN, CNN ANCHOR: You're in the CNN NEWSROOM. Hi, everyone. I'm Jessica Dean here in New York.

And new tonight, fast-moving diplomacy on President Trump's latest push to end Russia's war on Ukraine. The White House tonight saying Ukrainians believe the current draft proposal, in their words, quote, "reflects their national security interests." Secretary of State Marco Rubio, emerging from a meeting with Ukrainian officials today, sounding optimistic, touting what he called tremendous progress in talks but providing little detail when asked if Ukraine was willing to make major concessions to Russia.

Let's bring in CNN's senior White House reporter, Betsy Klein.

Betsy, we are hearing from the Trump administration just moments ago a little bit more. What are they saying tonight?

BETSY KLEIN, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jessica, there's some cautious optimism here at the White House after President Trump had set that Thursday deadline for Ukraine to accept this peace proposal or risk U.S. support for Ukraine going forward. But he did suggest that there is some flexibility as diplomacy is now picking back up.

It was just after 9:00 this morning that the president was lashing out at Ukraine, repeating some familiar refrains that they were not being grateful enough. But Secretary of State Marco Rubio, emerging from those high stakes talks in Geneva with Ukrainian officials, and he indicated that some of the final sticking points had been resolved.

And the crux of what's being discussed here is this 28-point peace plan. Rubio has called this a living, breathing document, and it had prompted some bipartisan criticism that it was too soft on Russia. Among those provisions that were in an earlier draft circulated to CNN, Kyiv ceding territory to Russia, giving up any ambitions to join NATO, as well as limiting the size of its army. And there had been many concerns from Ukraine.

But Rubio says that many of these outstanding issues have now been resolved. Zelenskyy saying in a video that he believes that the Trump administration is listening to Ukraine. But I want to read to you from a readout from the White House of this meeting. They say, quote, "The Ukrainian delegation affirmed that all of their principal concerns, security guarantees, long-term economic development, infrastructure protection, freedom of navigation and political sovereignty, were thoroughly addressed during the meeting. They expressed appreciation for the structured approach taken to incorporate their feedback into each component of the emerging settlement framework."

Rubio was also asked about President Trump's comments. Here's what he told our colleague Matthew Chance.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARCO RUBIO, SECRETARY OF STATE: It was very positive. I'm telling you, today was the most productive day we've had.

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CHIEF GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: He said they're ungrateful earlier.

RUBIO: Well, today, and we've talked to him since, I think he's quite pleased at the reports we've given him about the amount of progress that's been made.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KLEIN: Now, it's worth noting that President Trump has to sign off on any proposed deal, along with President Zelenskyy of Ukraine, as well as Russia, and that could be a final major obstacle. Secretary Rubio said that Russia has to sign off on this in order for it to work -- Jessica.

DEAN: All right. Betsy Klein, with the very latest from the White House. Thank you so much for that.

After a surprisingly friendly visit at the White House Friday, New York City Mayor-elect Zohran Mamdani says today he is not backing down on his critical view of President Trump.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KRISTEN WELKER, NBC NEWS ANCHOR: Just to be very clear, do you think that President Trump is a fascist?

ZOHRAN MAMDANI (D), NEW YORK CITY MAYOR-ELECT: And after President Trump said that, I said yes. And --

WELKER: So you do?

MAMDANI: And that's something that I've said in the past, I say today. And I think what I appreciated about the conversation that I had with the president was that we were not shy about the places of disagreement about the politics that has brought us to this moment. (END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: CNN correspondent Gloria Pazmino has the latest in New York, where she talked to Mamdani this morning -- Gloria.

GLORIA PAZMINO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jessica, you know, it was interesting for me in this moment where there is so much partisanship to watch the mayor-elect going to that meeting, have it turned out to appear to be positive. Still, you know, stick to his beliefs that, you know, he is calling Donald Trump a fascist, reaffirmed that the next day and then still saying that he expects to be able to work with him.

And I think ultimately that is going to be the test of this administration. Whether or not Zohran Mamdani can use the relationship that started last Friday with this Trump administration, with the White House, to work with them and stand up to some of the policies that New Yorkers are against here in New York City, namely, whether or not the president will send the National Guard into New York City, immigration enforcement, the funding that New York City relies on from the federal government, all of that is on the table.

[19:05:12]

But I talked to Zohran Mamdani earlier today about how he prepared for this meeting. He was back here in the city on Sunday. He spoke at a church early on Sunday morning, and he told the congregation that he knows part of his job to deliver on his agenda of affordability is to work with people even if he doesn't agree with them. Here's what he told me.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAZMINO: Talk to me about how you deciphered his language.

MAMDANI: You know, I approached this meeting thinking about what I'd heard from New Yorkers who voted for the president. And when I asked them why they did so last November, they told me, cost of living, cost of living, cost of living.

Oftentimes in a conversation between two politicians, the conversation rarely extends beyond either of them. Our conversation focused on New York City, and I think that is a point of shared focus, a point of shared admiration for the city that we both call home, and a city that is in danger of becoming a museum of where working people once were.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PAZMINO: Now, I've also learned a little bit more about what the two talked about in that meeting. The meeting was between Donald Trump, Zohran Mamdani and both of their chiefs of staff, Susie Wiles and Elle Bisgaard-Church were in that meeting as well. Both of them talked about real estate, something that we know is important to the president.

They talked about the difficulty of building housing here in New York City, which gets at a core issue of this incoming administration, the need to build more affordable housing and a real problem here in New York City when it comes to housing. They talked about potentially working together to get Con Edison to bring down the rates of electricity, the money that they're charging people every month to provide electricity. They talked about zoning code here in New York City.

So I think that this is a relationship that we are going to have to keep an eye on for many more months to come. Zohran Mamdani also shared with us that he did speak with the president about immigration enforcement, and while he did not get a commitment from him about whether or not he would deploy additional immigration forces into the city after he takes office, he talked to the president about making sure that there is no need for that.

He said that he told the president, the NYPD is doing a good enough job of keeping the city safe -- Jessica.

DEAN: All right. Gloria, thank you so much for that.

After announcing she's stepping away from Congress, Republican Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene now shutting down speculation she has any plans to run for a certain different office. The Georgia lawmaker posting saying, quote, "I am not running for president and never said I wanted to, and have only laughed about it when anyone would mention it."

CNN Capitol Hill reporter Camila DeChalus has more now from Washington.

CAMILA DECHALUS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jessica, since Marjorie Taylor Greene announced her resignation, lawmakers across the aisle have weighed in on this. Some Democrats say that they're not really quite sure what to make of her decision, but they have noted that they were counting on her vote and any upcoming possible deal that would try to extend the enhanced Affordable Care Act subsidies.

Mind you, that was at the heart of the issue, that why the government shutdown lasted for more than 40 days. Now, it's also notable that other Democrats even went as far as praising Greene for really helping push the bipartisan effort to try to release all the Jeffrey Epstein files. And even in her resignation, she announced and acknowledged that being a part of that effort really contributed to the ongoing tension between herself and President Trump.

Now, one Democratic lawmaker, Jasmine Crockett, did not shy away from criticizing Greene and weighing in on what her resignation means. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JASMINE CROCKETT (D-TX): Honestly, I was like, you've got to be kidding me. You're on the other side of the president for one week, and you can't take the heat. Imagine what it is to sit in my shoes to not only be on the opposite side of him, but to have people like her who are constantly fanning the flames of hate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DECHALUS: Now, Jessica, it's also worth noting that on Capitol Hill, Marjorie Taylor Greene is seen as being a very polarizing figure. But even last week she apologized, even going as far as saying she was no longer going to use toxic rhetoric. And now, with her leaving office, it really does have more lawmakers wondering what's going to happen next, because as I mentioned, some Democratic lawmakers started really seeing her as potentially being an ally and siding with them on several key issues when it comes to health care subsidies and other key priorities that lawmakers say that they want to address in the upcoming weeks.

DEAN: All right, Camila, thank you for that.

Still ahead here, our political panel joins us to talk about Marjorie Taylor Greene's shocking resignation from the House. Plus new polling casting a dark shadow over next year's midterms for the Republican Party. We're going to explain how Republicans plan to campaign, even if it means going against Trump in some districts, when we come back.

[19:10:06]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DEAN: The public falling out between President Donald Trump and Republican Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene boiled over this week, with Greene announcing her plans to resign her congressional seat in January. She also took to social media today to clarify speculation about her future plans, writing, "I'm not running for president, and I never said I wanted to and have only laughed about it when anyone would mention it."

[19:15:03]

Let's bring in CNN senior political commentator, Republican strategist and former Trump campaign adviser David Urban, and CNN political commentator and Democratic strategist Maria Cardona.

It is great to see both of you on this Sunday before Thanksgiving. Here we are.

MARIA CARDONA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: It's great, Jessica.

DEAN: Good to see you. OK, David, we have watched this thing between Marjorie Taylor Greene and the president, kind of, you know, it was happening, and then it really spilled into public view. And now here we are. She's resigning.

I'm curious what you think about his kind of relationship with Republicans on the Hill. I mean, he's really had such an ironclad, you know, he's ruled with an iron fist. They've done everything that he's wanted them to do for well over a decade now. We see her leaving Congress and we see, you know, with the Epstein vote before he changed his mind them starting to push back a little bit.

A lot of people, obviously, everyone in the House is going to have to run for reelection in the coming year. How would you kind of categorize where we are right now with Republicans on the Hill, specifically in the House?

DAVID URBAN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. Listen. I don't think, by the way, to characterize what happened is boiling over I think is the understatement of the year. It was like, it was like a nuclear explosion, right, between?

DEAN: Yes.

URBAN: You know, I watched that video with my mouth agape the entire 10 minutes. Listen, Donald Trump is still wildly popular in most congressional districts in America.

DEAN: Right.

URBAN: Where Republicans, you know, hold sway. And, you know, and so Marjorie Taylor Greene and Massie and a few others really, really kind of split waves of the president over this Epstein mess. And that's where this all kind of took, you know, took legs and kind of grew legs, took, you know, took some ground and grew legs was this back and forth and back and forth.

And Republicans, you know, had the support, she had the support of the Republican base in MAGA folks, because they really wanted to see these files turned over and turned out. And so the president was in a kind of a weird place, kind of almost, you know, campaigning against his base, so to speak. And, you know, he was for it before he was against it. And then against it before he was for it, and he finally obviously voted for, you know, got voted out of the Senate, signed it.

And I think, you know, we may see -- may have heard the last of it, I'm not quite sure. But, you know, there are many members, not too many members, who are going to be campaigning, but not many members are going to be campaigning against Donald Trump. He is widely popular, and I suspect he'll be wildly popular in the '26 midterms.

Listen, Jess, you know, there are people in the suburbs of big cities like Brian Fitzpatrick and Philly, as you know, and, you know, Mike Lawler and some others out in Long Island that have tougher districts that are a little bit more purple. But, you know, Donald Trump still wildly popular in most districts in America and even in Massie's district. You know, it will be interesting to see what happens with Representative Massie if there is a primary.

Massie is very popular and so is Trump. So, I don't think there'll be too much of a schism as we go into the midterms here. I know this will be long, long forgotten by the fall of '26.

DEAN: Maria, how do you see everything, too? Because let's remember that at least for the moment, there will be a special election. But, you know, Republicans are now down what would be in January, down another seat. And their very slim majority in the -- in the House, which Mike Johnson will have to maneuver around. So just knowing all of that what do you think? CARDONA: Yes. That's exactly right, Jessica. And I think what we have

to keep in mind is that, you know, David is right. Trump is still very popular among many Republican districts, but Trump is not on the ballot next year. And that's where you're seeing Republicans who are in these swing districts, seeing what just happened on the November 4th elections where Democrats ran the table across the country, north to south, flipping red districts to blue like crazy.

And on very -- the very specific issue of the economy and affordability, which Donald Trump frankly says doesn't exist, I guess until he met with Mamdani and now he understands how important it is. But Republicans have a very important decision to make, Jessica. In the past decade, the Republican, when Republicans have controlled Congress, they have acted as if they are the legislative affairs office of Trump's White House, not like they are serving their own constituents.

What -- interestingly enough, what Marjorie Taylor Greene just did and clarified was that she is finally speaking to the needs of her constituents, not just on the Jeffrey Epstein files, but on issues like health care and the ACA and extending the subsidies. And you're seeing a lot of Republicans very concerned about this health care issue and subsidies, and starting to get very concerned about the issue of affordability.

[19:20:00]

So I think you're going to see many more Republicans, at least if they want to have a prayer in the world of winning next year, breaking from Trump and speaking to the issues and the needs of their own constituents, which, frankly, were the ones who gave Trump their vote, thinking that he was going to lower the cost of groceries, gas and rent, lower inflation like he promised. And instead he has betrayed them on those key issues.

DEAN: David, what about that? Well, you can comment on what Maria said. I am curious, too, what you think about the health care issue.

URBAN: Yes. Sure, listen. Yes, no, listen, it's -- so, Maria, I take umbrage with one of the things that Maria said. Listen, if Marjorie Taylor Greene really were speaking for her constituents and they did feel that way, then she could run in a primary and win. Unfortunately, Donald Trump is still incredibly popular in her district. And if Donald Trump says to endorse Maria and he's going to endorse Maria for that seat, Maria would win that seat. OK? So he is wildly powerful and wildly popular --

CARDONA: What an image, David.

URBAN: In that district. Well, I'm just -- I'm just, you know, kind of the narrative that, you know, Marjorie Taylor Greene is speaking for those people and Donald Trump has forgotten them is not true.

CARDONA: I hear you.

URBAN: Listen, the economy is a concern for Republicans, and rightfully so. We were in such a hole, right? Inflation was huge. Real wages weren't growing. And, you know, joblessness, all these terrible metrics by which you measure the economy were so terrible for the past four years, Donald Trump has been in office for about 10 months. Things are improving, right? Inflation is down. Real wage growth is up.

But there's still a gap. There's still a big gap. And so when you go to the pump, when you go to the grocery store, people take out their checkbook. They take out their credit card. They think about they make tough choices about what they have to do. Health care is one of them, right? Health care costs keep continuing to rise. We need to do something about it. As a nation, I don't think throwing more money at it is the answer.

I think sitting down, Republicans and Democrats sitting down and trying to figure out how to bend that cost curve, right? That's the big fancy word for how to get prices down. How do we -- how do we tame pharmaceutical prices? How do we cut out, you know, fat and health care delivery systems so that people can afford it? I don't think the government is throwing more money at these Obamacare subsidies, which are put in place during COVID by Democrats knowing they're going to expire is going to make -- and make things better.

So Maria is correct. Affordability is going to be an issue in the midterms. The Republicans realize that. They're going to work on it hard. But the real question is, just like in the Biden administration, will Americans feel it in their pocketbooks by the time they go to the polls?

DEAN: Yes. OK. Maria and David, we do have to squeeze in a break, but please stay with us. I have another -- I have some more issues to discuss on the other side. We will be right back with you, including the CDC doubling down under HHS Secretary RFK Jr.'s leadership promoting an anti-science claim on its Web site.

Stay with us. You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:27:15]

DEAN: Republican senator and physician Bill Cassidy is stressing the importance of vaccinations after a new update was added to the CDC Web site stating the claim vaccines do not cause autism is not based on evidence. The change was made after Health Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. says he ordered the CDC to update the Web site to say that. Cassidy pushed back on that move this morning in a conversation with our Jake Tapper.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BILL CASSIDY (R-LA): Anything that undermines the understanding, the correct understanding, the absolute scientifically based understanding, that vaccines are safe and that if you don't take them, you're putting your child or yourself in greater danger. Anything that undermines that message is a problem. (END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: CNN's Julia Benbrook is joining us now.

Julia, tell us more about these changes.

JULIA BENBROOK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, medical professionals are voicing concerns as scientific information on the Centers for Disease Control and Preventions' Web site has been replaced with anti-vaccine talking points.

Let's take a closer look at what those changes are. There are now bullet points on the Web site that say that the statement "Vaccines do not cause autism is not an evidence based claim," adding, quote, "Studies supporting a link have been ignored by health authorities." So that's what you see when you first go to this Web page. And then if you scroll down to the main header, it still states vaccines do not cause autism, but with an asterisk that directs readers to a footnote.

And there it states that the wording was removed due to an agreement with the chair of the U.S. Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee. That refers to a promise made by HHS Secretary Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., a longtime anti-vaccine activist, with Senator Bill Cassidy, a Republican senator and a physician who had a key vote when it came to Kennedy's confirmation.

I want to play something that Cassidy said when he described his support of Kennedy on the Senate floor. This was back in February. He actually mentioned the Web site specifically. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CASSIDY: If confirmed he will maintain the Centers for Disease Control and Preventions Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices recommendations without changes. CDC will not remove statements on their Web site pointing out that vaccines do not cause autism.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BENBROOK: Now, in a statement following the changes to the Web site, Cassidy said this, in part, "I'm a doctor who has seen people die from vaccine preventable diseases. What parents need to hear right now is vaccines for measles, polio, hepatitis B and other childhood diseases are safe and effective and will not cause autism. Any statement to the contrary is wrong, irresponsible and actively makes Americans sicker.

[19:32:24]

Now, it is important to note here there are many credible studies that found no relationship between vaccines and autism. An HHS spokesperson defended the changes to the website, calling them the gold standard of evidence based science.

JESSICA DEAN, CNN HOST: Yes, even though, Julia, health professionals would continue to say that there is no evidence linking those two things. Thank you so much for that. David Urban and Maria Cardona are back with us. David, quickly, I do

want to just ask you about what we just heard there. This politicizing -- the politicizing of this, the greatest health organizations in the world. I mean, people look to the CDC as the gold standard. I mean, that is true. What do you think of this? This was something RFK, Jr. had promised he wouldn't be doing to Bill Cassidy.

DAVID URBAN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, so, look, I think Bill Cassidy has an issue taking it up with them with the Secretary there, and he should do that as part of his oversight. But to think that people in America have faith in our government health care advisory system after COVID, I think American's don't. I think Americans don't listen to it.

Americans are wise to listen to their to their own pediatricians and doctors, which I suspect they do. Nobody's being forbidden to get a vaccine. If you if you're a parent, you want to get your kid vaccinated, which you should. You're going to get them vaccinated, if you don't, if you're one of those people who thinks it's bad for them, you're not going to do it.

And so, I don't think this changes anything. And then interestingly, I think Democrats are all in a kerfuffle about this, but nobody cared when 20 million individuals crossed our border illegally, nobody checked their vaccine passports to see whether those kids are immunized for MMR or measles or anything else. So I just find it also just confusing and much ado about nothing.

DEAN: Maria?

MARIA CARDONA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, first of all, that's a ridiculous statement, David.

URBAN: Which one?

CARDONA: And secondly, the reason why Americans have no faith in our institutions is because somebody like RFK, Jr., a conspiracy theorist, someone who is anti-science, who has no idea what he's talking about when it comes to vaccines and autism, has become the Secretary of Health and Human Services in the greatest country in the world. I bet you anything that Bill Cassidy regrets his vote.

More importantly, this is going to give Democrats continued momentum going into the midterm elections to talk about how Republicans have absolutely zero credibility when it comes to health care, when it comes to the well-being of Americans. Something like this, that Bill Cassidy himself has said could make Americans sicker, can cost American kids their lives. Put on top of that, the lack of Republican efforts to extend the Affordable Care Act subsidies, where many Americans will give up health care and they could die, in addition to taking away Medicaid in the big, horrible bill for millions and millions of Americans, and you equal a party that has absolutely no interest in keeping Americans safe. And that is something that Democrats can absolutely take advantage of next year.

URBAN: Good job, Maria. That's a good job. But nobody -- kids can still get vaccinated if they want to. Parents can still do it. Some language on the website that's changed and the reason that people lost faith in the CDC and other things because they were lied to for so many years about COVID and all the things we know now are complete BS and, look, it undercut credibility.

CARDONA: You don't think the Health Secretary of the United States of America should follow science and not put something on the website that actually makes Americans less safe? Your own senator, a Republican Senator has said that?

URBAN: Listen, Americans can still get the vaccine if they want. Everybody could do what they want. They're going to do it. Listen, if you have a kid, are you going to listen to what the CDC says? Or are you going to do what your doctor says? Are you going to use common sense? Are you going to listen to what the government says?

CARDONA: The secretary of Health and Human Services, I used the official health --

URBAN: Maria, I'm not asking that. I'm asking you a completely different question. I'm asking a different question.

CARDONA: I will listen to my doctor. But the Secretary of Health and Human Services --

URBAN: Are people responsible for themselves? Are you going to let the government run your life?

DEAN: I have to jump in. I don't think we're going to find agreement on this --this one seems to have divided.

CARDONA: We should not be talking about vaccines as causing --

URBAN: Personal responsibility, personal responsibility.

DEAN: So, David, Maria, thank you to both of you. I do appreciate it.

CARDONA: Thank you, Jessica.

DEAN: All right, have a good week. We'll be right back.

CARDONA: You as well.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:39:07]

DEAN: Here's a look at some of the stories were tracking this week. Tomorrow, a judge is expected to rule whether to disqualify President Trump's handpicked prosecutor, Lindsey Halligan, who is leading the federal case against former FBI Director James Comey. Comey's defense team claims Halligan mishandled grand jury proceedings.

The Justice Department's counterargument is, even if Halligan was not properly appointed, the case should not be thrown out over a paperwork error. Also, tomorrow, a major NBA case goes to court. Portland Trail Blazers

head coach and Hall of Famer, Chauncey Billups is due to appear in a New York federal court to answer charges he helped lure people to rigged poker games. He's expected to plead not guilty. He remains on leave from the NBA without pay.

Pope Leo will make his first international trip next week. He is expected to travel to Turkey on Thursday, then Lebanon to spread a message of peace in the Middle East.

And the holidays are headed to the White House. First Lady Melania Trump will welcome the White House Christmas Tree tomorrow. That's the tree right there, you see it arriving in Washington all the way from Michigan.

President Trump will also perform the annual tradition of pardoning the turkeys before he heads south to Mar-a-Lago for the holiday.

[19:40:16]

Still to come here, it is expected to be the busiest Thanksgiving for air travel in more than a decade. And up next, we're going to talk to an expert for some tips to help you get to your destination on time. Stay with us, you're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:45:03]

DEAN: AAA predicts Thanksgiving will be the busiest travel holiday of 2025, with 81.8 million people expected to hit the road and travel at least 50 miles away from home. The FAA is expecting the busiest Thanksgiving at the airports in 15 years, with more than 360,000 flights scheduled.

And it's now a few weeks past that historic government shutdown. But the FAA, still struggling to fix the air traffic controller scheduling gaps and shortages. The agency says it is ready for the rush and committed to the system running safely.

Let's bring in Clint Henderson. He's the managing editor at "The Points Guy." He's going to discuss all things travel with us. I think, Clint, everyone looks to you for answers in these times. This is the first major test of airport operations since the government shutdown. What do you think people should be expecting at airports this week, especially if there are people who don't typically fly, they maybe they fly a couple times a year.

CLINT HENDERSON, MANAGING EDITOR AT "THE POINTS GUY": Yes, look, I was really, really worried if we would still be in the shutdown by now. So, I'm so glad that's resolved. The one thing I'm really watching is what you just mentioned, the air traffic controller shortage.

Once we get a shortage happening at one of the major hubs, I'm thinking of Newark specifically. It tends to have a chain reaction. So, that's where I'm really watching. Consumers really need to be their own best advocates. These days, you really got to pay attention, be watching CNN, for example, know if there's air traffic control issues going on because that can quickly spread and lead to a domino effect.

So, that's the one area I'm really watching, especially if we get any weather.

DEAN: Yes, I mean that's the thing is there is a lot of information at peoples fingertips these days. If you look ahead, you can kind of start to figure put some pieces together. Besides that, what else would you recommend to people to make this as smooth of a travel week as possible?

HENDERSON: Yes, look, I have an app that's fairly new called "Flighty" that I love.

DEAN: I love Flighty.

DEAN: It shows where my plane is from, it's great. And it shows you 24 hours of history of your flight. So, you'll know if your plane is going to make it to the airport you're leaving from or not, but also know what's going on at your departure and arrival airport.

I know social media gave us that heads up a few weeks ago about the long lines at Houston airport or if you see that, or you see a weather, sort of meltdown starting at your local airport, don't even bother going to the airport. Call the airline and say, hey, can you put me on a flight tomorrow? You know, sort of work around that. The airlines are being very flexible these days, but knowledge is power. How that airline app installed. Know the customer service phone number, even know the foreign customer service number because sometimes you can get through in Australia and not in the United States, and then follow them on social media.

You know, when we had those meltdowns in Chicago a few weeks ago, I was able to reach American Airlines to get them to back me up, protect me on another flight, just in case mine didn't make it out, which it didn't make it out. So, that kind of stuff will really help you in those situations.

DEAN: Yes that's really -- it's like good thinking ahead. And then also to these REAL I.D. requirements, remind people what they're going to see when they go when they go to the airport.

HENDERSON: So, you must have a REAL I.D. it'll have a gold star on your driver's license or your state I.D. That tells you if you have REAL I.D., if you don't have that, bring your passport. If you have a global entry card, if you have a military I.D., those are all valid forms. If you don't have that stuff, you'll be put in a separate line. You'll have to get additional screening. And apparently TSA is going to start charging people $18.00 to screen them that way, starting at some point next year.

So, these are things to keep in mind. Lot's changed at the airport.

DEAN: Get that REAL I.D. and then as we look post-Thanksgiving we have Christmas, New Year is coming up. If people haven't bought their flights yet, what are what are you advising them for end of the year stuff.

HENDERSON: So really, get on get on Google Flights right now. Check prices, set flight alerts. You really want to book as soon as possible for Christmas, because every day from here on out, it's going to get more expensive. So, we're past the sort of golden window, but only gets more expensive from here. If you've got a stash and points and miles, now is the time to use those when cash prices are high.

So, you know, don't hoard your points. Spend them if you got them. That's my best advice for all of them.

DEAN: All right, use those points if you got them. It's good to know when to when to use those. Clint Henderson from "The Points Guy," thanks so much. We appreciate it.

HENDERSON: Good to see you.

DEAN: You too.

Whether you're on the go or staying home on Thanksgiving, maybe you're getting the turkey ready. You can see all the live coverage of the biggest parades across the country by joining us on CNN on Thanksgiving morning. There will be performances by The Four Tops, Brad Paisley, The Temptations, and more. Live coverage of thanksgiving in America starts Thursday at 8:00 A.M. Eastern on CNN. You can also watch on the CNN App wherever you go.

We'll be right back.

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DEAN: Tonight on a new episode of "The Whole Story" with Anderson Cooper, we explore Catholic exorcisms in the U.S.. David Culver goes to one of the fastest growing Catholic dioceses in the country, in Arizona, across Christian faiths, exorcisms, what some call deliverances, are more than what you've seen in the movies. Here's a preview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHILD: A tunnel

DAD: You got a tunnel?

CHILD: I got a tunnel.

MOM: Oh, that's my favorite one, who is that?

CHILD: I do not.

MOM: I had reached desperation in my life countless times before, I had tried in the past to take my life. Like I said, I just was broken and there was a spirit who had such a strong hold on me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go in the name of Jesus Christ, come out of her.

MOM: That spirit was a demon.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: See, Demons come in to trauma they come in to the trauma in your life.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go, go!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was beaten up as a child.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We'll have to fight all our lives because Satan is always going to come against us.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get out. Get out of her.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're infected by demons.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: CNN's David Culver joins us now. David, this is so fascinating. What surprised you most as you began covering this story?

DAVID CULVER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Jessica, I think a lot of us have this portrayal in our mind, and probably Hollywood shaped it right when we think of exorcisms. And this documentary, what I hope folks take away from it is that it is nothing like the images that perhaps come from the movies.

This is a very human experience and journey that we take you on, and I was looking at the images of the folks that you're introducing there, the three individuals. And I think what surprised me most is that they let us in.

I mean, these are really, really vulnerable moments in their lives there for many of them, at a last resort where they're dealing with addiction, with grief, with fear, with isolation, and they say that its exorcisms, casting out demons that have gotten them to the point of healing.

DEAN: Wow! And you visited a place called the Arizona Deliverance Center, and there they say they claim to expel demons from the very young. What did what did you find there?

CULVER: Right and you pointed out deliverance is another word for exorcism. So, this was a place, a center that is not a church. It has a lot of obviously Christian focus and belief in what they're doing. And this is me touring some of that center. That room for one is used for children. I mean, they were talking anywhere from toddlers up to middle schoolers.

And so, they're young kids and they say that on the Saturday night sessions that they have once a month or so, they can have upwards of a couple of dozen kids in there, and they say it can get violent with some of those children at times. Now, this is a controversial aspect to this, right? Because it can get

very physical, too. And there have been very dangerous situations in which even one recent case, back in May, a young boy died because his mom was trying to exorcize him at home, as they say. But at that deliverance center, no such incidents have happened there.

They're saying that it's something that has really been therapeutic more than anything else. And I think what really surprised me in that space, because there's also an adult Friday night session, is that you have folks who are millennials, Gen Zs, people who you would see outside of that center, Jessica, and you, and you would never assume that's how they would be spending their Friday night.

DEAN: Yes, why is this gaining so much traction right now? So this was a big question that we put to all the exorcists we spoke with. And there's a big range we spoke to catholic exorcists who did not want to be very public and even didn't want to disclose their identity. So we had to do it anonymously. And we spoke to those exorcists who are evangelicals and more outspoken in public, even on YouTube, as to why they point to this increasing isolationism. They say post COVID was really a moment where they saw the uptick, and then you have, of course, addiction and fear and the issues that folks are usually turning to mental health professionals.

Now, these exorcists say they try to focus on getting people to mental health professionals in addition to this spiritual treatment as they see it. They say, though, Jessica, the real surge they feel like is being pushed by social media, essentially. And I asked, is that because they feel like social media is causing demons to go out into the world as they see it, and they say perhaps it's some of that, but they think more. It's an awareness factor, too. People start to see that there are exorcists out there, those who are willing to deliver individuals, and they feel like, okay, we can turn to somebody for help.

DEAN: And we've got about 30 more seconds. But what about the pushback to all of this?

CULVER: Well, it's interesting within the Catholic Church in particular, because, I mean, as a Catholic, I really only knew exorcisms again, from the movies. But within the church, you have some folks who are and these are -- and these are bishops who make this determination very much for it and support it and are pushing to have exorcists within their dioceses. And then we meet one bishop who says this is about mental health. He goes almost as far as to say exorcisms should be in the dark ages, that we need to focus on mental health support.

DEAN: All right, David Culver, a fascinating story. Thank you so much for that preview. And here, just be sure to tune in. Here's our programming note on this an all new episode of "The Whole Story" with Anderson Cooper, "The Exorcist" It's one whole hour, one whole story. It's airing next at 8:00 P.M. Eastern and Pacific right here on CNN.

You can also watch tomorrow on the CNN App. You'll see David's original reporting he was just talking about. Thank you so much for joining me this evening. I'm Jessica Dean.

Remember, if you're in the U.S. you can now stream CNN whenever you want, wherever you are on the CNN App. You can visit cnn.com/watch for more on that. Have a wonderful night. We'll see you back here in Thanksgiving.

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