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CDC Panel Votes To End Universal Hepatitis B Shots For Newborns; Interview With Representative John Garamendi (D-CA); High School Senior Accused Of Setting NYC Subway Passenger On Fire; Indiana University QB Leads Team in Undefeated Season; Nearly Two Dozen Witnesses Called In First Week Of Trial; CNN Heroes: An All-Star Tribute Airs Tonight, 8P ET. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired December 06, 2025 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:00:00]
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN HOST: One whole hour, one whole story airs tomorrow at 8:00 p.m. Eastern and Pacific only on CNN.
All right, hello again, everyone. Thank you so much for joining me. I'm Fredricka Whitfield.
And we began this hour with praise and pushback over Friday's vote by CDC advisers to abandon universal Hepatitis B vaccine recommendations for newborns. President Trump is calling it a very good decision and is now asking the Department of Health and Human Services to look at vaccine schedules from other countries to better align with the practices here in the U.S.
But experts across the medical community are voicing outrage, calling the decision to overturn a decades-long policy reckless and are now advising patients not to listen to the CDC.
Earlier today, I got reaction to the Hep-B vaccine change from the former chief of medical officer at the CDC, who resigned over concerns about the direction of public health leadership.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. DEBRA HOURY, FORMER CDC CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER: A lot of states, as well as medical organizations, are saying, don't pay attention to the CDC recommendations. Here's what we want you to do. So I think a lot of providers are going to follow their medical organizations. Even at the committee yesterday, the medical organizations were speaking against the panel, and the panel just chose not to listen. I've never seen that.
And so I think providers and physicians will still say, you know, do the most appropriate vaccines to protect yourself. But I agree, patients do need to know what is out there now and to come prepared to have those discussions.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WHITFIELD: Hepatitis B is a liver infection caused by an extremely contagious virus. Many patients don't have symptoms and more than half may not be aware of their infection. Infants and children suffering from an acute infection are also more likely to develop chronic disease.
Friday's vote upends about three decades of U.S. health policy when it comes to protecting newborns against Hep-B. The vaccine has been recommended since 1991 for all infants in the first days of life. And now a Hepatitis B patient is in his 30s and urging caution.
CNN's Meg Tirrell has his story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MEG TIRRELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): At 16, John Ellis went to the doctor with severe stomach pain and left with a diagnosis no one expected. Incurable chronic liver disease caused by the Hepatitis B virus.
JOHN ELLIS, HEPATITIS B PATIENT: You know, at 16 years old, there was conversations around what it would look like for me to get a liver transplant. To be blunt, I thought I was going to die.
TIRRELL: John was born in 1990, one year before the U.S. recommended that all newborns received the Hepatitis B vaccine, so he hadn't been vaccinated by age 3 or 4, the time his doctors think he contracted the virus based on the scars on his liver.
John and his family don't know how he was infected. Hepatitis B is incredibly infectious, and people who don't even know they have it can transmit it to babies and young kids.
ELLIS: I would much rather vaccinations be available at birth than, you know, to have someone else live the experience that I've lived.
TIRRELL: But now some people might. Advisers to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, handpicked this year by Health Secretary Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., may recommend delaying the shots by months or years after expressing skepticism of the vaccine in previous meetings.
VICKY PEBSWORTH, CDC VACCINE ADVISER: There are gaps in what we know and understand about the effects of Hepatitis B, particularly on very young infants. And I think that the conclusion that we know that it is safe is perhaps premature.
TIRRELL: But experts say it has a more than three-decade track record of safety and delaying the birth dose could result in an estimated 1400 or more preventable infections in kids each year.
Dr. Anthony Fiore, a former CDC infectious disease specialist, tells CNN there's no rational justification for changing the recommendation.
DR. ANTHONY FIORE, FORMER CDC INFECTIOUS DISEASE SPECIALIST: We've seen tremendous reductions in childhood infections with Hepatitis B. This saves lives. We're afraid we're going to move back to the time when children were slipping through. TIRRELL: The virus is strongly linked to liver damage and cancer. John
Ellis is now 35. Right now, his viral load is low, and he's been able to lead a generally healthy life. He hopes the vaccine that wasn't yet recommended for newborns like him remains available for newborns today.
ELLIS: The perceived fear of the risk of vaccination has outweighed the real fear of the Hepatitis-B virus.
TIRRELL: Meg Tirrell, CNN, reporting.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WHITFIELD: And today, we're learning more details on the controversial double tap strike that killed survivors on an alleged drug boat near Venezuela. Exclusive CNN reporting reveals that boat, according to the admiral who oversaw the operation, was not bound for the U.S., contradicting the Trump administration's justification for the attack.
[16:05:04]
Moments ago, Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth spoke about the boat strikes during a speech at the Reagan National Defense Forum in California.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETE HEGSETH, DEFENSE SECRETARY: Right now, the world is seeing the strength of America resolve and stemming the flow of lethal drugs to our country. These narco-terrorists are the al Qaeda of our hemisphere, and we are hunting them with the same sophistication and precision that we hunted al Qaeda. We are tracking them, we are killing them, and we will keep killing them so long as they are poisoning our people with narcotics so lethal that they're tantamount to chemical weapons.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WHITFIELD: All right, let's discuss more now with Democratic Congressman John Garamendi of California. He's a member of the House Armed Services Committee.
Congressman, thank you so much.
REP. JOHN GARAMENDI (D-CA): Good to be with you.
WHITFIELD: I do want to play a little more of Hegseth speaking moments ago. And a question from Lucas Tomlinson from FOX News, was asked, as well. I want to play it, and then I'd love to get your reaction to it. Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LUCAS TOMLINSON, FOX NEWS REPORTER: Can you take us back to the September 2nd strike off the coast of Venezuela, the very first one from combat operations began in the Caribbean, and walk us through the timelining, your role in it, from mission planning, the operation, and the follow-on strikes.
HEGSETH: Absolutely. So it took us a couple of weeks, almost a month to develop. And we can't -- I can't get into sources and methods and all of those things for obvious reasons. But you have to develop the intel picture, get an understanding of what you're looking at. And a lot of our assets, as I talked about in the speech, had been pointing, you know, 10,000 miles around on the other side of the world for a very long time.
So once we got to the point where a strike was eminent, I had taken the decision responsibility up to my level. Not many military decisions should be made by the secretary of war. I believe in deferring those decisions to local commanders as much as possible. But because of the strategic implications of the first few strikes, I wanted to hold that decision at my level. And the briefing that I received before that strike was extensive, exhaustive, I would say, as each one is since.
On the military side, on the civilian side, lawyers, intel analysts, red teaming, every aspect, what do we know, how -- what do we know about their affiliation. A lot of things I can't share in this room to give us the kind of confidence that we know where this is coming from, who's driving it, who's on it, what their intentions are, where -- it's all the details you need to strike a designated terrorist organization, which is an important thing to remember at the top of all this.
The president has designated these as terror organizations, poisoning and threatening American people, making them a target unlike -- just like al Qaeda. So in that room, in that moment, it was -- I can't remember exactly how long it would have been, 20, 30 minutes of a preview of exactly what's going on, and my job was to say execute or don't execute. Was I satisfied with the strike criteria? Yes. Saw the strike itself, which all of you have seen.
There was probably 30 or 40 minutes is what I've been told of dust and it was on fire for a long time after that. I stayed for probably five, five minutes or so after. But ultimately, at that point, it was a tactical operation. And so I moved on to other things. I shouldn't be fighting tactics as the secretary of war. So I moved on to other things. Later on, a couple hours later, I was told, hey, there had to be a reattack because there were a couple folks who could still be in the fight, access to radios.
There was a link-up point of another potential boat. Drugs were still there. They were actively interacting with them, had to take that read. I said, Roger, sounds good. From what I understood then and what I understand now, I fully support that strike. I would have made the same call myself. Those that were involved in 20 years of conflict, Iraq, Afghanistan or elsewhere, know that reattacks and re-strikes of combatants on the battlefield happen often.
In this particular case, it was well within the authorities of Admiral Bradley, who's an incredible American or American hero. And the 22 or 23 strike since have followed a similar protocol of ensuring we meet the criteria. The decision is not at my level anymore. And then we take the strike.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WHITFIELD: All right. So what are your thoughts on hearing that, as he, you know, tries to explain the timeline, and then once again makes a distinction that the vessel was burning for about 20 to 30 minutes, he watched for about five, but then left. At the same time, he says, you know, if he were asked, he would, you know, he would endorse this course of action. What do you read into or decipher from all that we just heard?
GARAMENDI: Well, he's working very, very hard, and, frankly, I think, incorrectly to justify the entire organization, the entire -- what they're trying to do here, taking these boats out with these strikes.
[16:10:04]
The second strike, he didn't really explain that in any detail. And here's why we need to have a detailed public hearing. We need to get to the bottom of this. This is really the opening pages of a major scandal. It clearly involves the secretary of defense and others. And so what we need to do is to be very careful, get all of the facts, get all of the communications, get all of the video, put the timelines together and actually understand exactly what Hegseth said.
He still has not dealt with this issue of killing all of them. That issue is out there. Where did the "Washington Post" get that information, who's passing it on, all of those kinds of things need to be known. And then after we have that, then bring Hegseth in, when we have the facts, and he wants to try to continue to just explain his way, incorrectly or correctly away, fine, but you've got the facts.
Public hearing, get it out there, let the American people know. And he did not deal with the underlying legal issue of attacking the boats at all. And certainly he's not dealing with the issue, are we going to go to war with Venezuela? Why? What are the -- what's the goal there? And finally, keep in mind that the U.S. Coast Guard has been doing this kind of work for years, successfully, recovering tons, hundreds of tons of cocaine and other drugs.
They sometimes work with the military to identify the boats. The Coast Guard goes out, stops, makes the arrest, takes the drugs. That's common practice. Question, why are we not doing that now?
WHITFIELD: And I wonder, too, you know, sources are telling CNN that Admiral Bradley did share with lawmakers on Capitol Hill this week that he did consult a military lawyer before ordering the attack. What -- yes, and this was the -- this was the double tap that he consulted. What does that tell you? Is that enough for you? What do you think needs to be shared in that kind of dialogue?
GARAMENDI: Well, this is what we need to know. Who did he talk to? Keep in mind that Hegseth basically fired all of the top lawyers and the JAG team out of the Pentagon. Who was the lawyer? What was his experience? And what kind of information did he give? This is why this hearing has to be done very meticulously. Start with
information like that. Do those interviews with the lawyers and others, and then build up to get to the facts and maybe the admiral is in trouble, maybe not. We don't know. We basically have back-and-forth words between Hegseth and the admiral. Clearly, there's a problem. Clearly there was a second strike. How did it happen? Why did it happen?
And start at the beginning. Why was that boat targeted? What information did they have? They said they're not going to discuss methods and means. Well, you don't have to discuss that, but where is the intelligence that tells you this is actually a drug boat and the other boats that have been blown up. And finally, so what are you trying to solve here? You're not going to solve the drug problem by blowing up these boats, and certainly we're not going to solve the drug problem by attacking Venezuela.
Keep in mind, there is no authorization to use force against Venezuela and no other authorization to go to war. But yet Trump I think believe yesterday was talking about airstrikes into Venezuela. Hello? Under what authority? Under what authority does he have to do that? And where's the money? Where's the authorization? Congress has got to get engaged here, and we have to put on our big boy pants and push back, get the information, and make sure this is done correctly.
WHITFIELD: All right. Congressman Garamendi, always a pleasure having you. Thank you so much.
GARAMENDI: Sure. Thank you.
WHITFIELD: All right. Still ahead, a subway passenger set on fire in New York City, a high school senior is now charged.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:19:01]
WHITFIELD: All right. New details are emerging about a suspect accused of setting a person on fire in a New York subway. The U.S. attorney's office released these surveillance images from early Monday morning. Authorities say 18-year-old Hiram Carrero lit a sheet of paper on fire in a subway car and then placed it near a passenger who was sleeping. According to the complaint, the suspect then jumped out of the subway car and then slipped away. He was arrested three days later. The U.S. attorneys say the victim suffered severe injuries.
Let's turn now to CNN correspondent Leigh Waldman. She's in New York and has more information for us -- Leigh.
LEIGH WALDMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Fred, in addition to that federal arson charge that this 18-year-old high school senior Hiram Carrero is facing, we're hearing now from NYPD he's also going to be facing an attempted murder charge, three counts of assault, criminal mischief, and reckless endangerment. We know that the 18-year-old will be in court for that preliminary hearing on January 4th.
[16:20:02]
So let's talk about what happened here. On Monday on that three-train heading north near 34th in Penn Station not far from where we are right now, authorities say that Carrero lit a paper on fire and placed it near that 56-year-old victim. We have surveillance video or pictures rather from the Times Square Station where that victim comes off that train car. His torso and his legs are on fire. NYPD having to extinguish those flames.
We know that that 56-year-old man was hospitalized in critical condition. Carrero, he's being held ahead of that preliminary hearing in early January. We're getting a statement also from the U.S. attorney, Jay Clayton, and it reads in part, "As alleged Hiram Carrero committed a horrific arson, starting a fire inside of a New York City subway car where a victim was sleeping. As a result of that arson the victim has suffered severe injuries. New York City subway is the heart of our city, with millions of people who live and work here relying on it every day. New Yorkers have the right to be safe and feel safe when they ride the subway and our office is committed to that result."
Now, despite what happened on Monday and a similar incident less than a year ago where a woman was actually killed after being set on fire in a subway, the NYPD says that transit crimes are down. Let's take a look at some of those crime statistics in November. Transit crime down 24.8 percent. Shooting incidence is down 19.1 percent. Murder is down nearly by 50 percent. Ahead of the holidays, retail crime, also down by 20 percent. The only area where we're seeing an increase in crime is in the felony assaults that are up by 1.5 percent.
NYPD accredits this to its fall violence reduction plan, which is a data-driven persistent police strategy, combating violent crime across the city. They're saying they're seeing great success with that. And the subways are actually safer than they have ever been prior to the pandemic -- Fred.
WHITFIELD: Wow. This, though, incident incredibly unsettling.
All right, Leigh Waldman, thanks so much.
All right, straight ahead, twists and turns from the first week of testimony in the Brian Walsh murder trial. Up next, we'll examine the defense strategy for the husband who admitted to disposing of his wife's body but says he didn't kill her.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:26:46]
WHITFIELD: All right, one of the biggest games in college football is tonight. Indiana University and Ohio State University going for the big 10 championship. And for the first time, Indiana University is undefeated, and the team's quarterback has a real shot at the Heisman Trophy. That would be another first for the school.
CNN's Brynn Gingras reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You go back two Octobers, this behind us, this didn't exists.
BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Welcome to the Memorial Stadium, the home of the Indiana football team. I almost teared up. It's incredible.
IU football 20 years ago?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pathetic?
GINGRAS: Football 2025 IU?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Unbelievable.
GINGRAS (voice-over): The incredible turnaround led by quarterback Fernando Mendoza.
FERNANDO MENDOZA, INDIANA HOOSIERS QUARTERBACK: My whole thing is to always stay hungry and always stay in the hunter mentality.
DAVE DUNN, FERNANDO MENDOZA'S FORMER HIGH SCHOOL COACH: He's going to be the first, I believe, first Cuban-American ever to win the Heisman Trophy.
MENDOZA: I would say that pressure is a privilege.
DUNN: He's a football nerd.
MENDOZA: Look at us, a bunch of misfits coming together.
GINGRAS: And Fernando as a person.
DUNN: He's definitely a type of young man you want your daughter to marry.
CURT CIGNETTI, HEAD COACH, INDIANA UNIVERSITY: Pretty simple, I win. Google me.
GINGRAS (voice-over): Head coach Curt Cignetti now a savior in Bloomington.
DUNN: He's really galvanized a student body, a town, the state of Indiana, to become a football place.
GINGRAS (voice-over): The only question now, how far can this team go?
We're headed to Bloomington, Indiana, to Indiana University. Now, I grew up playing basketball. So when I think about IU, I think about Bobby Knight, basketball dynasty. Of course, the movie "Hoosiers." But lately there's a whole new sport that's bringing a ton of pride to this part of the country.
You remind me a little bit of Tom Brady.
MENDOZA: (INAUDIBLE) told me that, but that's an incredible honor because Tom Brady is my football idol.
GINGRAS (voice-over): Fernando Mendoza has his idols, but around here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's something different about Mendoza.
GINGRAS (voice-over): He is the idol.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's now being talked about as the Heisman favorite right now.
GINGRAS (voice-over): A sensational season propelled by a thrilling catch and unthinkable win over rival Penn State.
MARCUS EARNEST, IU FRESHMAN: We have two hell of a game. We have PSU, Oregon. We're going to the playoffs. We're beating Ohio State. We're having one hell a year. Go Hoosiers.
GINGRAS (voice-over): What Mendoza is doing in this part of the country, a few thought would ever happen.
CAROLYN GOEMER, FACULTY CHAIR, IU KELLEY SCHOOL OF BUSINESS: Previously with football, we would sit and try to count, OK, can we get our six wins to be Bowl eligible? Now it's number two in the country. OMG.
GINGRAS (voice-over): The more you talk to Fernando Mendoza, the more you learn he doesn't fit the mold. He talks like a ferocious jock.
MENDOZA: My whole thing is to always stay hungry and always stay in the hunter mentality.
GINGRAS (voice-over): Until he finishes that sentence.
MENDOZA: I do that by deleting most -- basically all my social media. The only social media I do check is LinkedIn and YouTube.
GINGRAS (voice-over): That's right. LinkedIn. Mendoza is a business school grad, a bookworm with dreams of someday holding an office in the C-suite of a major company.
MENDOZA: Football has been a huge part of my life, but I would say even a larger part of my life is the family and community aspect.
[16:30:09]
GINGRAS (voice-over): So, who exactly is Fernando Mendoza? To answer that, we had to go 1,200 miles south to Miami, Florida.
DAVE DUNN, FOOTBALL COACH, COLUMBUS HIGH SCHOOL: Do I got to join the union?
GINGRAS: Yes.
GINGRAS (voiceover): Meet Dave Dunn. He coached Mendoza at Columbus High School in Miami.
DUNN: He's a football nerd. He's super intelligent. And I don't mean a football nerd in a bad way.
GINGRAS: This is in the hand soul.
DUNN: Yes. He showed up during his very first meeting with me when he was 15 years old with a notebook and a pen. And he took notes in every single meeting.
GINGRAS: And Fernando has a person.
DUNN: He's definitely the type of young man you want your daughter to marry. Fernando's name went right there. She's pretty cool.
GINGRAS (voiceover): Dunn didn't just coach Fernando. He also coached his younger brother, Alberto.
DUNN: Every time we won a state championship, there's been a Mendoza on the roster.
GINGRAS: Wow. What a legacy.
DUNN: Yes. It's -- they'll remind me we haven't won one since they've left.
GINGRAS (voiceover): Alberto was Fernando's backup quarterback in high school, and they're still together. Alberto is a Hoosier and Fernando's backup once again.
DUNN: I love coaching both of them. And, you know, I would take either of them back in a heartbeat.
GINGRAS: They're extremely competitive with each other, but they're still brothers playing on the same team.
DUNN: Yes. It's -- what drives them is that, you know, they can kind of get each other -- under each other's skin in a good way to push themselves to be better, but also being loving and supporting in the same sense.
GINGRAS (voiceover): Fernando also credits his work ethic to his grandparents, who are Cuban immigrants. It may be what helped him get into Yale University for both academics and football. But he turned it down, always hoping he'd end up at a top-tier football program.
MENDOZA: I was never a large recruiter. I was a two-out-of-five-star recruit.
DUNN: I was even calling friends in the industry, that I'm like, I'm not saying, these kids can't miss. I go, but he's pretty darn close to.
GINGRAS: He's a look at him.
DUNN: And nobody would bite. And it was frustrating.
GINGRAS: Are you having those moments now? Like, pretty woman where you're, like -- DUNN: Yes.
GINGRAS: Big mistake.
DUNN: Big mistake, yes.
GINGRAS: A huge mistake.
DUNN: Yes. Exactly, yes.
GINGRAS (voiceover): At the heart of Fernando's success is home. In almost every interview, he mentions two things. His faith and his family.
MENDOZA: I'm so proud to be able to play for them. And, you know, because they're my why. Especially my mom, like, they're my why.
GINGRAS (voiceover): Fernando and Alberto's mom, Elsa, is living with multiple sclerosis.
MENDOZA: She is the most optimistic, positive person, and our inspiration.
GINGRAS (voiceover): Back in Indiana, at IU's go-to spot, BuffaLouie's, the boys proudly do their part to raise awareness.
GINGRAS: Three of the BuffaLouie's Mendoza brothers' burgers.
ED SCHWARTZMAN, OWNER, BUFFALOUIE'S: Yes.
GINGRAS: How did you link up with Mendoza brothers?
SCHWARTZMAN: When we get this e-mail saying, would you be willing to come up with a burger to support the Mendozas' mom, Elsa, in her fight against MS.
GINGRAS: So, it's a Cuban in burgers --
SCHWARTZMAN: Kind of sort, yes.
GINGRAS: OK.
SCHWARTZMAN: It's our -- it's our spin on the Cuban. They're not doing it to raise money as much as is just awareness, to do something.
GINGRAS (voiceover): With each convincing win, every improbable upset.
DUNN: You always want a root for the underdog.
GINGRAS (voiceover): The stakes are raised.
MENDOZA: I would say that pressure's a privilege.
GINGRAS (voiceover): Fernando's name isn't just being whispered among Heisman talks. It's being enchanted.
GINGRAS: I mean, Heisman Doza has a nice ring to it.
DUNN: It does, yes. So, I think for him, it's a big part of it's going to be validation that, you know, I am good enough. He's going to be the first -- I believe, first Cuban-American ever to win the Heisman trophy.
MENDOZA: It's definitely a great honor to be in that conversation.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kurt, welcome to IU.
GINGRAS (voiceover): Kurt Cignetti, he's a head coach polling the Hoosier strength, turning underestimated players into stars and making the impossible possible for Indiana.
KURT CIGNETTI, IU FOOTBALL HEAD COACH: Pretty simple. I win. Google me.
TYLER ALFONSI, IU JUNIOR: He literally said we do not lose.
GINGRAS: Yes.
ALFONSI: And then we didn't lose.
GINGRAS (voiceover): His winning record earned him a multimillion- dollar contract extension, now making him the fourth-highest-paid college football coach in the game.
GINGRAS: You can turn this town from a basketball town into a football town. What does it mean to you and your players?
CIGNETTI: It's really hard for me to step back sometimes and think about what we've accomplished here. It's been fun. And let's have more fun.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's really galvanized the student body, a town, a state of Indiana, to become a football player.
GINGRAS (voiceover): In just two seasons, IU remains undefeated at home.
MENDOZA: Look at a bunch of misfits, a bunch of transfers, a bunch of rejects.
GINGRAS (voiceover): Ended this season perfect.
MENDOZA: They got replaced at their old schools coming to Indiana.
GINGRAS (voiceover): Has broken several school records.
MENDOZA: You tell me 12-0 for the first time in Indiana, who's your history?
GINGRAS (voiceover): And are real contenders to play for a national championship.
GALEN CLAVIO, HOST, CRIMSONCAST PODCAST: It just goes to show that if you put the resources towards a program and really are focused on trying to build something, you can do it.
GINGRAS: It's very appeal to dreams, isn't it?
PAT PLOUGHE, HOOSIER FAN: Yes. Yes. Well, if you know that they will come, and -- I mean, they've been here for years, just not insult to stadium.
GINGRAS: For those who slept on IU --
CLAVIO: Yes.
GINGRAS: What do you say to them?
CLAVIO: Welcome to the party. Yes, man.
GINGRAS: Cheers, guys. Go IU.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go Hoosiers.
[16:35:09]
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WHITFIELD: OK. Brynn Gingras return to her alma mater or the enthusiasm is infectious. Thanks so much. All right, Indiana takes on Ohio State tonight, 8:00 p.m. Eastern.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WHITFIELD: All right, welcome back. Nearly two dozen witnesses took the stand in the murder trial of Brian Walshe this week. Walshe is accused of killing his wife, Ana Walshe, in January 2023. He already admitted to disposing of his wife's body, but says he did not kill her. CNN's Jean Casarez has more.
[16:40:19]
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It was a big first week in the Brian Walshe trial. The prosecution has to be able to prove to this jury beyond a reasonable doubt there was premeditation. That's the only way you can get a first-degree murder conviction.
CASAREZ (voiceover): So, the prosecution put on the stand this week, William Fastow. That's the man that Ana Walshe was having an affair with, once she got her big job in Washington, DC, with Tishman Speyer. He testified that he sold the townhome to Ana Walshe in DC, that she lived in. They became friends, they became confidants, and they became intimate, very, very quickly.
But the defense on cross-examination tried to show that Ana Walshe told no one about the affair, that Brian Walshe knew nothing about what was going on at all, and the witness had to admit that she didn't want Brian to know, and they never associated with her friends. And this would take the motive for premeditated murder to be nonexistent. Brian didn't know about it. It couldn't have been a motive to kill Ana.
The prosecution also showed video of Brian Walshe following, dismembering her body, taking trash bags, and putting them into trash dumpsters. He's already pleaded guilty to this, but the jury saw that video. But it was on Friday, on the cross-examination when the defense focused in on that this was a couple that was happy. This was a couple that really enjoyed each other and loved each other. Listen to some of those texts between the two, close in time to win Ana died.
LARRY TIPTON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: There's a text that comes from the phone assigned to Brian Walshe, says, love you. Correct?
CONNOR KEEFE, MASSACHUSETTS STATE TROOPER: Yes, correct.
TIPTON: And then immediately thereafter, there is a text, page 16. Immediately following that text, coming from the phone assigned to Ana Walshe, and she says, love -- or the phone says, love you, too.
TIPTON: Correct.
CASAREZ (voiceover): We do expect at least two more weeks of evidence. The prosecution will continue its case in chief on Monday, and then at some point, the defense will present its case. And the big question, will Brian Walshe take the stand to describe how his wife died of sudden unexplained death? Jean Casarez, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WHITFIELD: All right, for more on this case now, with me is Julie Grant. She's a Court TV anchor and former assistant district attorney. So great to see you. I mean, this is an unbelievable case.
JULIE GRANT, COURT TV ANCHOR & FORMER PROSECUTOR: Yes.
WHITFIELD: OK. So, let's try and chip away a little bit, you know, if we can. So, we just heard the defense in the trial, you know, tried to show that Ana Walshe didn't tell anyone about the affair, and the accused didn't know anything about it as well. So, were they successful in casting doubt, you know, on the accusation that this was, you know, a premeditated killing?
GRANT: That's the million-dollar question. Can they prove premeditation? Boy, this is tough.
WHITFIELD: It is.
GRANT: It really is.
WHITFIELD: Why is this tough?
GRANT: It's always good to be with you and talk about this case.
WHITFIELD: It's great to see you, too.
GRANT: Thank you. I think -- you know, it is fascinating. And we know it's captivated audiences all over, even not just true crime watchers. People are going, what is going on with Brian Walshe?
WHITFIELD: Right.
GRANT: And so, it seems to me that his defense team and him -- he's very smart. They have found a triable issue here.
WHITFIELD: OK.
GRANT: There is evidence, I mean, for days that he dismembered her body and disposed of her body all over the town where they lived, and then lied about it to everyone. He's diabolical --
WHITFIELD: They even have, like physical evidence from the hack saw.
GRANT: Yes.
WHITFIELD: OK. So --
GRANT: They should do --
WHITFIELD: There's that he admits to the dismemberment. But then, it's all the stuff prior to that. There's no body.
GRANT: Right.
WHITFIELD: But then why is it so difficult, I guess, for prosecutors to make the correlation of disposing of the body and helping to prove the case that he had something to do with her death?
GRANT: Exactly. Because as a prosecutor, you've got to prove causation. When you have a homicide case, you have to prove that one person caused another person's death legally. And here, they may or may not be able to do that because at the time that the homicide was committed, there's only -- if it was committed. You know, the defense says that this was a sudden, unexplainable death that she just died in the bed. What I mean to say is, during the window of time where something happened.
WHITFIELD: Yes.
GRANT: Either she's killed by him, or she just dies at a 39 --
WHITFIELD: Right.
GRANT: -- you know, year-old healthy woman, you know, just dies. There's no witnesses. It's just him in that house. And so, prosecutors have to theorize, Fredricka, whether they think that he beat her to death or strangled her to death or did something. There's no video evidence.
[15:45:08]
WHITFIELD: It would set some tone for what led up to this potentially.
GRANT: Right. WHITFIELD: You know, the whole affair thing. That seems to have been, like, a -- you know, I guess, like a lightbulb moment for him, or at least that's what they're trying to say.
GRANT: Yes.
WHITFIELD: So, if not that, then what would be the thing that would precipitate?
GRANT: Right. So, the affair possibly was part of the motive. He was jealous. He knew about this lover in DC. There's evidence that he was actually having him surveilled and that his mother might have been part of that surveillance in DC, maybe paying for a private investigator. And there's also the money motive.
WHITFIELD: OK.
GRANT: As you know, Fredricka, this guy was a big fraudster. He had sold fake Andy Warhol paintings on eBay. He was on federal pre- sentencing probation at the time that he picks up this homicide case, and so he needed to pay back close to half a million dollars in restitution.
Ana Walshe had two gigantic life-insurance policies on herself. She also owned a lot of real estate properties. She was very successful, very wealthy. So, it could be a dual motive that prosecutors are going for it.
But can they prove it? We don't have a medical examiner who's going to come in --
WHITFIELD: Right.
GRANT: -- and say this is how Ana died.
WHITFIELD: So, why would he potentially want to take the stand? Because that is a potential offering. I mean, any defendant can, but apparently, there are rumblings that he actually would want to take the stand. Why would you want to do that?
GRANT: Right. Great question, Fredricka. You know, he has to explain the giant leap from she suddenly died in the bed that we shared together, you know, with no red flags, perfectly healthy, leading up to this point, to I took her to the basement and I decided to dismember her body, scattered the remains all around the town, and then lie about it to everyone. It's so much of a leap. He's got to explain that. And he's really the only person who can.
WHITFIELD: But he just has to explain it to, I guess, complete the mystery for everybody who wants to know, or does he need to explain it to stay -- to get an acquittal? Because that would be his goal.
GRANT: Yes.
WHITFIELD: But really, could that --
GRANT: It could.
WHITFIELD: -- in a better cement and acquittal for him if he were to testify about this?
GRANT: Fredricka, it sounds crazy, but it could.
WHITFIELD: It does?
GRANT: It really does. Because you see the Google searches he made. I mean, he's searching things like can you prove a murder without a body? If you don't have teeth, can you identify a body? I mean, he's saying all these things.
However, only Brian Walshe can testify that he found her unresponsive in the bed. The defense can't get that fact into evidence without him testifying to it. So, I think he will.
WHITFIELD: How?
GRANT: If I had to bet, I think we'll see him. Because we know defense said it in the opening statement, but you know that's not evidence. So, the jury's going to be instructed. Look, you can take the council's comments and use it to help form your opinions and guide you in your searching through the evidence for the truth. But really, he's the only one who can say it.
WHITFIELD: Yes. Wow.
GRANT: So, I think he's just arrogant enough to say it.
WHITFIELD: Oh, my gosh. OK. Well, it is fascinating. It is a gory case.
GRANT: Yes.
WHITFIELD: But, you know, people are, like, hanging at the edge of their seats, trying to figure out what -- you know --
GRANT: Right. They're not getting --
WHITFIELD: -- if this is going to be solved. If this is going to be solved.
GRANT: It's almost going to be something like out of a movie, right?
WHITFIELD: Yes, it is.
GRANT: It's almost like it's too horrible to be real, but it is.
WHITFIELD: Julie Grant, great to see you. Thank you so much. Appreciate it.
GRANT: Fredricka, thank you.
WHITFIELD: All right, of course, you could follow every step of this case on the new CNN app. Watch testimony in court live and get analysis from the CNN legal team, streaming on the new CNN app under the tab. Watch.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:53:08]
WHITFIELD: All right. For so many, this time of year is about giving back. "CNN Heroes: An All-Star Tributes" salutes five extraordinary people who put others first all year long. The star-studded show airs tonight at 8:00 Eastern Time. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Saturday on CNN, it's a special night of hope and inspiration. "CNN Heroes: An All-Star Tribute." Meet the everyday people doing extraordinary things to improve the lives of others.
TIM WOODWARD, ANIMAL RESCUE CORPS: We've rescued well over 10,000 animals. My hope is that they have the best life possible.
DEBRA DES VIGNES, INDIANA PRISON WRITERS WORKSHOP: I decided to volunteer in a prison. Why not use writing as a tool to become better in the space that you're in?
HEIDI CARMAN, FIRST RESPONDER THERAPY DOGS: We have hundreds of therapy dog teams across the entire country. We have helped so many people.
HILLARY COHEN, EVERY DAY ACTION: Giving someone that's hungry in food is the best thing one can do. Now more than ever, we have to help each other.
QUILEN BLACKWELL, SOUTHSIDE BLOOMS: What we do is creating jobs in the floral industry for at-risk youth. There are people who want a chance at something better.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Find out who will be the hero of the year. "CNN Heroes: An All-Star Tribute," Saturday at 8:00 on CNN. And next day on the CNN app.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WHITFIELD: And it is going to be a great show. You don't want to miss it. So, gather up the family, get ready, to be inspired tonight, 8:00 p.m.
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[16:59:11]
WHITFIELD: On Sunday, December 14, Roy Wood Jr. hosts a holiday special for the whole family with music from the United States Air Force band and Jessie James Decker, comedy from Roy, Craig Robinson, and so much more. Roy Wood Jr.'s very, very, very merry holiday special, December 14, 8:00 p.m., right here on CNN. And watch it on the CNN app, as well. All right. An Alabama man is turning heads with his love for cars in 80's movies. Take a look at Craig Rowley's latest purchase, that Ford LTD Queen Wagon, better known as the Family Truckster from National Lampoon's Vacation. Remember that? From the Wally World bumper sticker to the vintage luggage right on top, there. And wood paneling, of course, on the side.
This nostalgic replica ride is all about the details. The Truckster draws lots of double takes and thumbs up out on the road. But not everyone is a fan.
