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Trump Says U.S. Will Run Venezuela Following Maduro's Capture. Maduro Due to Arrive in NY on Saturday; Maduro being Taken to NY to Face Drugs and Weapons Charges; Venezuelans Celebrate Maduro's Removal; Trump: We're Going to Run Venezuela. Aired 1-2p ET

Aired January 03, 2026 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:00]

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: -- Trump went on to clarify that Delcy Rodriguez, the vice president, has in fact been sworn in now as president of Venezuela. Something I wasn't sure we were publicly aware of at this point.

Essentially saying the mechanism through which the United States is likely to run Venezuela, certainly for now, until this safe transition can be worked out that the President spoke about, is using Delcy Rodriguez, Maduro's vice president. Now that is a significant distance, frankly, from the United States taking over the running of the country.

He's essentially saying that the conversation between Marco Rubio, his National Security Adviser and Secretary of State, with Maduro's constitutional successor, Maduro's vice president, went well enough that he believes that that person and that mechanism can be trusted to run the country in such a way that pleases this White House. That's what we seem to learn here.

Now, obviously, there's a lot in that at times not entirely coherent statement we heard from the President, which leaves holes for change. But the thing that startled me the most was he twice said that Secretary of State Marco Rubio had spoken to Delcy Rodriguez. That is unprecedented, really, to remove Maduro like that and then have a long call with his deputy.

And then, Erin, importantly, too, I think the hope for those who want to see democracy come after Maduro in Venezuela was Maria Corina Machado, the winner of the Nobel Peace Prize that President Trump coveted so much. Somebody currently in hiding who fled Venezuela recently, who has put out a call to people to enforce their mandate, essentially calling for a kind of popular uprising in the aftermath of Maduro's departure.

Trump essentially said she wasn't the woman for the job, that she didn't have it, what it took to lead Venezuela. She was a nice lady, but she didn't really have the respect or support of the people. That is stunning because we are essentially now, from what we can garner from the President's speech, hearing him put his faith in Maduro's deputy, the constitutional successor, with whom perhaps the U.S. may have made come some particular accommodation or arrangement, and saying that the hope for transformational democratic change in Venezuela, Ms. Machado, isn't someone who necessarily they think can come to power.

That's stunning because it shows us two things, that there is likely a mechanism here, it doesn't change much, really, who's currently in power after Maduro's departed. And that, indeed, they're not suggesting that a wider democratic transformational change may immediately be ahead.

All this could change, this could be a temporary mechanism we're seeing here now, but I think that was one of the details lost in the President's speech there, was Marco Rubio has twice spoken to the immediate successor to Nicolas Maduro. And it seems like Delcy Rodriguez, his vice president, is sworn in now as president and is likely to be agreeing to do the administration's bidding going forward.

The phrase, make Venezuela great again, suggesting that perhaps Trump believes she is someone who can play a role in the future there.

ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: Such incredible analysis. And just to make the point that you're making, right, that perhaps there were deals that were made, and if so, and if they hold, they certainly are not democratic, right? It would be a -- I don't want to use the word puppet regime, but a regime approved by the United States.

All right, Nick, thank you very much. Nick's going to be with us, of course, as he continues to talk to sources. And our breaking news coverage continues.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is CNN Breaking News.

BURNETT: And good afternoon, and thank you so much for joining me on this Saturday. I'm Erin Burnett. And we are following breaking news. President Trump says that the United States of America is now running Venezuela.

A stunning announcement coming after elite U.S. forces captured Venezuela's President, Nicolas Maduro, dragging him and his wife from their bedroom in the middle of the night to face criminal drug trafficking charges in the United States.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're going to run the country until such time as we can do a safe, proper, and judicious transition. So we don't want to be involved with having somebody else get in, and we have the same situation that we had for the last long period of years.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: President Trump, though, gave no details on who exactly will run the country, except for to say that it would be a group of people, including top U.S. officials with him in that room, which included the Secretary of State Marco Rubio, the Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth, saying they would work with a team.

There is no timetable either for how long the United States will remain there, although President Trump says he has no concern about U.S. boots on the ground. Trump then continued to say America's largest oil companies will go in to Venezuela.

And as Maduro's allies who remain in Venezuela plot their next move, Trump says he is prepared to order a much larger attack than Venezuela saw overnight if needed.

There's so much to talk about on this momentous day. I want to go straight now to Retired U.S. Air Force Colonel Cedric Leighton.

[13:05:01]

And, Colonel, thank you very much for your time. All right, let's just go at this here right now from the very specific angle of what has happened in these past few hours in Venezuela. Context, this was a bigger operation than the U.S. staged in Iran, more aircraft involved.

The chairman of the Joint Chiefs, Dan Caine, was laying out that it started at 10:46 p.m. last night, Eastern, President Trump gave the go ahead, Godspeed, as he described it. And then he laid out what happened, saying that it took place from at least 20 U.S. bases. OK, in the timeline that was laid out, Colonel, what is most significant to know?

COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, there are several things, Erin, that are really key to this operation. One of them is that there were 150 aircraft that were part of this whole thing. So when you look at this, you have to look at it as being, you know, I guess the best analogy would be a ballet in the sky.

What you're looking at is all kinds of different types of aircraft going in. So you've got fighter aircraft like the F-35 and the F-22. You have F-18s, which are also fighters. You then have reconnaissance aircraft. You have refueling aircraft. You have then, of course, the special operations forces. Once all that has been cleared, you have the helicopters coming in.

So the way to look at this is a very intense operation that took months to plan. And the key takeaway is that this required a lot of planning and a lot of really working out the kinks before this operation was actually conducted.

BURNETT: And there were a couple of operational details to talk about here. I mean, one thing, of course, is it is pretty stunning what the American military was able to pull off, right? Separate from any analysis of where we go now and what should have happened or did happen, obviously, their execution was flawless.

Now, Trump talked about a couple of things, Colonel, in there that I wanted to ask you about and then see what else stood out to you. He said, "It was dark. Lights of Caracas were largely turned off." And then he added, "Due to a certain expertise that we have."

Obviously referring to something that the U.S. would have done to essentially turn off the grid in Caracas. So he mentioned that. Then he also mentioned that they were -- that this was this heavily fortified military installation in the center of Caracas, as he described it, and that Maduro and his wife were there and that there was a room that Trump mentioned they could have essentially within 47 seconds blown apart, right, or blown the door off of.

But the Maduro wasn't actually able to get into this steel fortified room, as Trump described it, in time. What details like that stood out to you and what do those details mean that Trump revealed?

LEIGHTON: So when you look at the way the aircraft actually came into this area, they really, in essence, put out what would be called suppressing fire to the entire area. So what they did was they destroyed the air defense systems that the Venezuelans had and they made it really hard for them to continue to operate.

So when you talk about the power outage, that has basically the hallmarks of a cyberattack. That's the kind of thing that we worry about, you know, in the cybersecurity field quite a bit, because that really affects everything else. So you take out the power.

And then when you go into the details, the very tactical details of, you know, the kind of room that Maduro was in, the kind of safe room that he and his wife could have gone into and were about to go into, according to what the President said, that really speaks to the type of precise intelligence that the special operations forces had to have in order to conduct their mission and to execute it flawlessly, as they did in this case.

BURNETT: All right. And just to be clear, intelligence like that. And I know we've reported on a CIA intelligence operative. Interesting that Trump and Rubio had an exchange where they talked about that they saved $50 million, which was the reward for information leading to the arrest or detainment of Maduro and that they didn't have to spend it.

I just mentioned that in the context of the reporting that there was an important CIA asset on the inside. I mean, where -- how would you have obtained all of this information that they had? They even referenced at one point General Caine did, that they knew everything about Maduro's pets and his pets' whereabouts, right? I mean, would that have had to have come from human intelligence in the inner circle of Nicolas Maduro?

LEIGHTON: Well, it's -- that's one likely source. There are several other possibilities. And the key thing here is pattern of life. This is basically what General Caine was talking about, Erin.

What he was looking at was Maduro's pattern of life, the kind of -- kinds of habits that he has. These are the same exact techniques that we used in Iraq against terrorist elements. You know, al-Baghdadi, people like that from ISIS, the terrorists in Afghanistan that we went after. So all of these procedures that were used in this particular case, all the tactics, the techniques, all of that really was developed over many, many decades of U.S. military work. And the war on terror actually provided us with some of the more precise intelligence. And that refined -- their ability to refine this intelligence was what was used in this particular case.

[13:10:05]

So you had the intelligence being used in real time by the operating forces, and that made it possible for them to conduct these missions in this way.

BURNETT: Colonel Leighton, I appreciate your time. And thank you very much in these early hours of analysis with this new information coming in.

Let's go now live to Caracas, where this strike, of course, occurred. Our journalist Mary Mena is on the ground for us. And Mary, you and I had a chance to speak a couple of hours ago. But between then and now, the President of the United States has given an hour-long, full hour- long press conference with his leadership team and laid out exactly what happened and that the United States is going to run Venezuela.

And that there will be -- that he's not afraid of U.S. boots on the ground, giving no time frame for how long this would be and indicating that the U.S. was going to have the player in the decision of who would run Venezuela. OK, in these minutes post that, what is the reaction there?

And are you even able to give us a sense of how aware are people in Venezuela right now about what the President just said? I mean, what are communications like? What is the awareness of what's just happened from the President of the United States?

MARY MENA, JOURNALIST: Well, first of all, as I was listening to President Donald Trump, what he was saying about 150 airplanes participating, helicopters, it was remarkable how that appears to be what really happened, because if I remember what happened during the early hours of the day, it was something like that, like multiple -- I hear multiple planes and helicopters and a rumbling loud sound in Caracas for about 45 minutes.

The reaction, there's no immediate reaction from Venezuelan government officials. We heard from them early in the morning. We haven't seen them because they have appeared on national television over the phone, but not in presence.

The state channel keeps sending a message of tranquility, of peace, showing images of the country in peace and also saying that some government supporters are gathering in areas where Nicolas Maduro is receiving support, like the west of the city around the presidential palace in Caracas.

So far, most people have decided to remain at home or to buy some food in those places that are still open, like pharmacies or supermarkets, but the majority of Venezuelans are following the news through international channels like CNN. The flow of information usually keeps running easily and more freely through international TV stations in Venezuela.

And we need to remember there are more than 8 million Venezuelans abroad living in -- outside of the country that have migrated, and they have many family members calling them and telling them what they are seeing through international channels.

BURNETT: All right, Mary, thank you very much. And just so much -- so fascinating there when you talk about the national television broadcasting those images of peace and tranquility. But you're saying that there are channels such as ours which are available there for people to see.

All right, Mary, thank you very much. Mary, as I said, when you look behind her, that is the view that she has there from Caracas right now. We're going to be going back to Mary throughout our breaking coverage here. Thank you so much.

And when we come back, more on what we're learning of the dramatic operation itself. Right here is the first image we have of Nicolas Maduro tweeted out by President Trump of him in essentially a sweatsuit with handcuffs on in the darkness of night when he was taken by U.S. Special Forces. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:18:03]

BURNETT: All right, welcome back to our breaking coverage. Let's go to Kevin Liptak now. He is live in West Palm Beach. And, of course, Kevin, you were there asking questions during President Trump's historic press conference. So what are you learning now about the discussions that Trump indicated are happening between the Trump administration and, well, I guess the Vice President of Venezuela? I mean, the situation where Trump has made it very clear that the United States is now running Venezuela.

KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yes, and he was extraordinarily vague on that front in that really consequential press conference. You know, we've been covering Trump for a long time here, and I think you'd be hard-pressed to remember seeing another moment that had so many implications, both for his presidency, for the hemisphere, and for the world.

And so, you know, we were heading into that press conference in Mar-a- Lago, certainly with a lot of questions about how this all was carried out, but also about what happens now afterwards. On the first point, we did get plenty of information. And, you know, the President had his top national security officials over there. It's called the Tea Room of Mar-a-Lago. They were sort of packed in there talking through sort of this TikTok.

And you had the chairman of the Joint Chiefs, Dan Caine, kind of going, you know, moment by moment to describe how this all was carried out. But when it came to the question of what happens next, there really were not a lot of answers. And the President, I think, surprised all of us when he said that the U.S., we, as he put it, would now be running Venezuela.

But when he was asked about what exactly that meant, who would be running Venezuela from the United States, he didn't necessarily provide a whole lot of clarity. And, you know, I asked the President, does this mean a U.S. military presence on the ground there, a prolonged U.S. military presence, boots on the ground, and he immediately pivoted to talking about Venezuela's oil, you know, which we know has been sort of a preoccupation of his for some time.

[13:20:04]

You know, he has talked about how, in his view, Venezuela stole the oil from the United States. And so, if you are listening to that, I think, and potentially concerned about the prospect that the U.S. is now becoming embroiled in another foreign country, I'm not sure that the President offered a whole lot of clarity about what precisely he envisions the next days, the next weeks, the next year looking like in that country, at least when it comes to the American commitment. So I think it was a remarkable press conference.

Just the mood in the room to describe for you, Erin, you know, the celebratory, certainly, the President taking a victory lap in a lot of ways. And you saw him kind of expand on all manner of topics in his opening remarks. You know, before the President walked out, we could hear the President and some members of his national security team kind of, you know, laughing on the patio. It was lighthearted in some ways.

And it was moments after that that we saw the President tweet or post on Truth Social, I should say, that remarkable photo of Maduro in his sweatsuit on the USS Iwo Jima, apparently sailing away from Venezuela. Once the President came into the room and started speaking, you know, it did take on a more serious tone. And I think the President seemed to recognize that this was a consequential moment for him. But at the same time, not necessarily revealing much about where this might all be headed.

BURNETT: All right, Kevin Liptak, thank you very much. I know as you get more, you're going to be joining us. Of course, you're on the ground there with the President near Mar-a-Lago. So thank you very much.

And I want to bring in former NATO Supreme Allied Commander Admiral James Stavridis now. And Admiral, so much to talk to you about. I just was actually looking here, though, at something the President said, which just brought back echoes for me of what happened in the Iraq War.

Just -- at the beginning of that war, right, the point was, well, there's so much oil it's going to pay for all of this. And that it's going to pay for the occupation. It's going to pay for all of it. We're not going to have to pay a dollar. I've seen analysis. I remember that analysis that was done that it was $30 trillion. It was tens of thousands of American lives. I only make that point because in answer to the question, is it possible the U.S. administers Venezuela for years? Trump responded, quote, "Well, it won't cost us anything." That is the direct quote because he's talking about how much oil the U.S. is going to be getting out of the ground.

What has just happened here, Admiral?

ADM. JAMES STAVRIDIS (RET.), CNN SENIOR MILITARY ANALYST: Well, I'm with you. I'm massively concerned about the thinking here. And let's just start, Erin, with the physical size. You mentioned earlier population 30 million, that's absolutely correct. It's also a huge country. It's -- if you put it on a map of the United States, it stretches from Charleston, South Carolina, all the way north to New York City.

It goes from Washington, D.C., west to Chicago. It's twice the size of California. So going back to that Iraqi analog, and I think unfortunately it's a pretty good one, big country, big population. How many boots on the ground did we have in Iraq? You know the answer, about 220,000 at peak. And did we subdue Iraq? Nope.

This could be very, very difficult. Frankly, the only encouraging thing I heard in the press conference was this very almost offhand comment that Marco Rubio, who knows the region very well, fluent native Spanish speaker, bilingual, has been having conversations with the vice president, now the president.

Close with this, Erin, the one really huge mistake we made in Iraq, and you remember this, is debathification. Meaning, we just fired all of the Saddam military police and the country descended into anarchy. Here you've got Chavismo, the followers of Hugo Chavez. Perhaps there's a way to do this using some of the former Chavez people, perhaps funneling it through some of the leadership. But boy, that's a narrow, narrow sea to sail.

BURNETT: Yes. And also raises the question, this is a country that has been marked by violence, kidnappings, narcoterrorism, and armed gangs, right, which have been involved in all of the above. You know, in a sense, the military structure and leadership of the government, such that it was, was tenuous in that regard, right, that there were gangs.

And we're -- our own reporters on the ground, you know, reported that earlier today there were, you know, there's checkpoints and the gangs are -- you know, there is that also complete sense of chaos and disarray. I mean, is it fair to say then, given what the president said, that the United States of America now owns that? We own all of that?

STAVRIDIS: Unfortunately, he was standing in that podium and all I could think of was Colin Powell and the Pottery Barn rule. You break it, you own it.

[13:25:09]

And I think the answer to your question, unfortunately, from what I heard, is, yes, we're going to run the country. And to your point on violence -- can I just put a number on that?

BURNETT: Yes.

STAVRIDIS: Europe, the most peaceful place in the world, one violent death per 100,000 in the population annually. U.S., we have five times that, five violent deaths per 100,000 per year. Mexico with its narcotics gang, Central America, 25 violent deaths per 100,000 per year.

You know what Venezuela is, Erin? It's 125 violent deaths per 100,000 a year. It's one of the most violent countries in the world. So the idea that it can be suddenly subdued, I think, is highly questionable.

BURNETT: And, of course, an incredibly sobering thing that you've just laid out there, Admiral, in the sense that it is now American boots. The President rightly talking about how incredible it was that not a single American was injured or killed in this operation. But as you point out, we are at the beginning of something perhaps very immense.

All right, thank you very much, Admiral Stavridis -- yes, go ahead.

STAVRIDIS: We've -- Erin, if I could add --

BURNETT: Yes.

STAVRIDIS: -- just one quick thought. What we need to do, instead of just admiring a new problem is internationalize it. Work with our partners in the region, the Organization of American States. We need to get the interagency working together on this. And we do need private-public cooperation. Whether that means the oil companies are going to foot the bill or not remains to be seen. But there's a lot of work ahead, Erin.

BURNETT: All right. Admiral Stavridis, thank you very much.

And President Trump, of course, is saying, as the Admiral was just discussing, that the United States will indefinitely run Venezuela. And that the United States and its oil companies will rebuild the oil infrastructure of that country.

Our special coverage continues after a brief break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:30:00]

BURNETT: And welcome back to our breaking coverage here on CNN. Nicolas Maduro is captured on his way to New York on the USS Iwo Jima. The U.S. attorney general says the Venezuelan dictator will be brought to justice in the United States. Trump's saying that it is unclear whether it would be in New York, where he is headed right now, or eventually in Miami. But his indictment is in the Southern District of New York.

And I want to bring in Katelyn Polantz, as well as our senior legal analyst, Elie Honig, who is a former assistant U.S. attorney in the Southern District of New York. So, first, Katelyn, you've got a lot of new reporting here. You know, this all started after we found out about the operation with the superseding indictment that -- you know, to add on to the existing indictment of Nicolas Maduro that the attorney general, Pam Bondi, point -- put out earlier today, charging Maduro and his wife and several others. What more are you learning about how the administration plans for this to go from here?

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we're going to have to see how the court handles it, really, because that is who is in control. This is a case that's been open for years, Erin, and it is one where Maduro has been under indictment since 2020.

Now, he is being able to be brought to a federal court because he's been apprehended by those U.S. forces going into Venezuela and taking him and his wife by force. But this case, it's existed since 2011. It has alleged that the political and military elites of Venezuela were running a narco-terrorism conspiracy and allowing hundreds of tons of cocaine to come into the U.S. and then giving cover for the drug traffickers and also money launderers to take the money from the proceeds of that drug trafficking back into Venezuela.

Maduro is the person at the top of this alleged conspiracy. He was first indicted in 2020, but then that additional version of charges, the new set of charges, the new rewritten indictment under this Trump administration that just landed in the docket today, it adds his wife and his son, who also became a politician in Venezuela, to the group of people being charged for this conspiracy.

Generally, the idea is captured in this sentence in the indictment saying that Maduro, the defendant, participates in, perpetuates, and protects a culture of corruption in which powerful Venezuelan elites enrich themselves through drug trafficking and the protection of their partner drug traffickers.

So, Erin, we're going to have to see exactly how this plays out, although we do know the U.S. is bringing Maduro back into the country, into the United States to face these charges in some way. A court appearance could happen in federal court in New York as early as Monday.

And there are other questions too, though. The indictment is the legal justification for the U.S. troops going into Venezuela, but there are other questions that are going to come about legally, primarily this question that Democrats on Capitol Hill are already raising, saying, how can you do this without congressional approval? But alone, for Maduro, on the indictment, that exists and he will need to face these charges now that he is in U.S. custody. Erin?

BURNETT: All right. Katelyn, thank you very much. Elie, now just to give you a chance to react to what Katelyn's reporting here on this indictment.

So, the question is then, Elie, what happens from here? As Katelyn lays out, you could see Nicholas Maduro and his wife in New York appearing in court as soon as Monday. What happens then?

[13:35:00]

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST AND FORMER ASSISTANT U.S. ATTORNEY, SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NY: Right, Erin, as sensational as this case and these charges are, Nicholas Maduro, his wife and his son, among the three other defendants, will now be treated essentially procedurally the same as any other criminal defendant in our civilian courts.

Now, this case has been indicted in the Southern District of New York, which includes Manhattan, the Bronx, and some of the northern counties. The next step in this process, first of all, there will be an initial appearance. There will be an in-person, in-court arraignment, probably within the next working day or two, I would guess Monday or Tuesday at the latest. The rules say you need to get someone in front of a judge quickly. They will be advised of the charges against them, the narco-terrorism charges, the drug importation charges, the weapons, firearms, and bomb charges that have been lodged against them.

They will enter original pleas. They will almost certainly plead not guilty at this point. The judge, Judge Alvin Hellerstein, who I've appeared in front of, will make sure that they have defense counsel. They certainly have the right to choose and hire defense counsel of their preference, and if they can't do that, the court will appoint a defense lawyer to represent each of them. And finally, the judge will, at least theoretically, consider the question of bail. I promise you, none of these defendants will be given bail. They will all be locked up, detained, pending trial.

BURNETT: OK. So, then, I know the details may seem small, but they matter a lot. So, then, where do they likely stay locked up, right? We know high-profile, right? I'm thinking of El Chapo. Remember when he was briefly, actually, in a facility in downtown Manhattan? Where exactly will they be? And how long does a case like this, right -- and we're taking the case now itself separate from what's happening in Venezuela itself. How long does a case like this take to go through the system?

HONIG: So, first of all, ordinarily, a federal defendant in New York would be held at the MDC, the Metropolitan Detention Center, which is located in Brooklyn. There used to be a separate one in Manhattan, but that's now closed for renovations. Now, there are highly secure areas of the MDC where you might be able to hold somebody like Nicolas Maduro, but I should say, there can be accommodations and arrangements made to hold them elsewhere. There's no law that says you must be held at the MDC. That's ordinarily done out of convenience.

With respect to timing, this will take quite a while, I think, to get to trial. I mean, you have to go through the arraignment. The parties then have to produce discovery. This is an indictment that covers decades worth of criminal conduct. I'd imagine there's millions of pages in the discovery. Maduro, like any defendant in our criminal courts, will have the ability to make motions. I'm sure he will seek to have evidence suppressed. I'm sure he will ask the judge to dismiss the cases. And then, ultimately, you will have a trial. But even in an ordinary, let's say, large-scale drug trafficking case, Erin, you typically would not expect to see trial within six months or so. I think you're looking more like along the lines of a year, maybe a year and a half. I guess the contravening effect is, could there be an understanding here by all the parties, including the judge, that there is time urgency here and that there's some compelling need to get this case tried more quickly over the next several months?

BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much. And I will just say, we're looking here at live pictures of the Metropolitan Detention Center in New York. I actually have been over there a couple of times. It is right along the water. It is in a pretty industrial area. And there have been a lot of high-profile people held there. Of course, Katelyn and Elie, as you know, Sean Diddy Combs was there. There's sort of like a dorm-like facility where they had put people that they thought were at risk for the general population. Sam Bankman-Fried, Crypto, was there for a while. There have been others who have been held there, some of the high-profile names, just to make it very clear.

HONIG: And Erin, if I --

BURNETT: Yes, go ahead.

HONIG: Can I add to that real quick?

BURNETT: Yes.

HONIG: I've been in there many times as well, talking with witnesses, cooperating with witnesses --

BURNETT: I'm sure, yes.

HONIG: -- and doing investigation. It is famously or infamously one of the worst federal facilities that we have in the Bureau of Prisons. It has come under investigation. Judges have ordered investigations because of the conditions there. It's overcrowded because, as I said earlier, there used to be two separate facilities, one in Manhattan, one in Brooklyn, but the one in Manhattan is currently closed for renovation, so it's overcrowded, it's unsanitary. There have actually even been judges who have given people bail or reduced sentences because of the conditions in this prison. So, it's a rough place to be held.

BURNETT: Yes, it certainly is. And I've heard, even from people who are in that dorm-like facility, right, that you and I were referring to, some of the break time they had. One of the inmates was telling me, you know, when you're up, what counts for light is just sort of sunlight coming through the slits in the wall.

So, it is not a nice place to be held. But of course, this looks like the most likely place that it possibly could be, but to your point, Elie, we just don't know. But that is in Brooklyn, even though it, of course, is called Manhattan Detention Center. All right. Thank you both very much. I appreciate your time.

[13:40:00] And when we come back, we're going to look at the reaction from Venezuelans abroad following the U.S. strikes in Caracas. Our special coverage continues next as you are looking at live pictures in a hazy day in Caracas, Venezuela.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BURNETT: Welcome back to our breaking coverage here. Venezuelans in the United States and around the world, there's a massive expatriate population, they are reacting to the dictator Nicolas Maduro's removal from power right now on a U.S. carrier on his way to New York to stand trial. At a Venezuelan restaurant near Miami, dozens took to the streets when the news broke. They were celebrating, dancing, singing, waving their country's flag.

And I want to bring in Ana Navarro, our political commentator, of course, co-host of The View. And Ana, it's great to have you with me. OK. You are -- you live in South Florida. You're currently in Spain, which I believe is distant, but still third largest buyer of crude oil from Venezuela and very close ties to the country, right?

[13:45:00]

So, you are seeing this from all angles and where you're actually sitting tonight in Madrid. What is your reaction to what we have seen play out in these past few hours?

ANA NAVARRO, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: You know, I have mixed feelings. And two things can be true at once. It is true that Donald Trump has lied to the American people as to why he went into Venezuela. It is true that for months now, he has been building a narrative that just doesn't pan out about Venezuela flooding the U.S. with fentanyl and flooding the U.S. with cocaine. That simply is not true. But it is also true that Nicolas Maduro and Hugo Chavez before him inflicted suffering and oppression and dictatorship on the Venezuelan people for over 25 years.

So, today, I have joy in my heart for the fact that that thug, that corrupt thief, killer, assassin, Nicolas Maduro is out of Venezuela. I don't agree with the way it was done. I also recognize that it would probably have been incredibly difficult for the Venezuelan people to get rid of him on their own because he's got every institution under his wing.

But I will tell you, Erin, I was feeling a lot better until I heard that press conference. That Trump press conference was cuckoo crazy. For him to say that he's going to have Marco Rubio and Pete Hegseth run Venezuela, Pete Hegseth, who can't even run the Department of Defense or Department of War, as it's called now, are we going to have a signal gate now regarding Venezuela?

Listen, the Venezuelan people have not endured 25-plus years of dictatorship, suffering, exile in order to become a protectorate of the United States. They deserve a peaceful transition. They deserve to be sovereign and free. And the Venezuelan people elected a legitimate democratic government in July 2024. Nicolas Maduro refused to accept the election results. And he stayed in power and he swore himself in. And because he has the army, because he has every institution, he was able to do so.

But there is a legitimately elected leader of Venezuela. His name was Edmundo Gonzalez. He was the stand-in for Maria Corina Machado, the woman who just won the Nobel Peace Prize. So, really, there would be nothing more symbolic than seeing Edmundo or Maria Corina lifting their hands right now, swearing in as the new legitimately elected leader of Venezuela, not Marco Rubio or Pete Hegseth. That's insane.

BURNETT: So, let me ask you -- Ana, let me ask you one thing on that. And I will say your sort of flabbergasted response is in line with what we've seen from the military experts we've been talking to over the past hour. But to the point, you know, Trump, in that press conference that you just were referring to, he talked about Maria Corina Machado. He said she was not ready and did not have the popular support in Venezuela to be the president and seemed to indicate, right, that Marco Rubio, or he did say Rubio had had a conversation with the vice president. And Trump said, well, that person, though, was picked by Maduro. But she's indicated she'll do everything that we want.

So, what do you take away from all that? I mean, the way he phrased it, at least in that phrasing, it wasn't as if he was looking for democracy.

NAVARRO: That's unacceptable and disgusting. First of all, Maduro's vice president is an heir to Maduro and is an accomplice to everything that has happened under the Maduro dictatorship. For Trump to say that Maria Corina Machado does not have popular support in Venezuela, how dare he?

I mean, this woman, her party -- because the Maduro regime banned her from running, so there was a stand-in, a guy named Edmundo Gonzalez, who is in exile in Spain right now. Maria Corina Machado has stayed in Venezuela under great risk, risking her own life. And people, Venezuelan, courageous, freedom-loving Venezuelans came out July 2024, despite the risk of voting against Maduro, despite the risk of standing up against that dictator, they came out and they overwhelmingly, handily elected Maria Corina Machado's stand-in.

So, for Donald Trump to say that she doesn't have the popular support in Venezuela is wrong. Not only does she have popular support in Venezuela, she has popular support around the world.

BURNETT: All right. Ana, thank you so very much, of course, joining us live from Madrid at this hour. Thank you. And we'll take a brief break with our special coverage continuing on the other side.

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[13:50:00]

BURNETT: More on our special breaking news coverage out of Venezuela at this hour. President Trump says the United States will indefinitely run the country after capturing President Nicolas Maduro and his wife in a large-scale military operation overnight.

Venezuela's opposition leader and the Nobel Peace Prize winner Maria Carina Machado is calling for an opposition candidate to be installed as leader, saying in part, quote, "What had to happen to is happening. This is the hour the citizens. Today, we are prepared to enforce our mandate and take power. Let us remain vigilant, active, and organized until the Democratic Transition is achieved. A transition that needs all of us."

And I will note in the context of her statement that President Trump said that she did not have the support to rule Venezuela in his press conference just a bit ago.

I'm joined now by CNN Contributor Stefano Pozzebon, who has done extensive reporting from Venezuela, and I know you're on your way now.

[13:55:00]

So, what we're finding out here now is that -- I mean, what are we supposed to take away from what Machado is calling for, an immediate change of government. But President Trump saying, well, it can't be her because she's, quote, "not very popular," and he said wouldn't be capable of leading the country? I mean, who is going to take over?

STEFANO POZZEBON, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes, indeed, Erin, if you think that, well, Nicolas Maduro is clearly the number one loser at the end of today because nobody had expected him to finish this Saturday in handcuffs on his way to a New York City courtroom.

Maria Carina Machado is a close second loser after Donald Trump essentially disqualified on live international television, saying that she doesn't have the support of her citizens, even though Maria Carina Machado did lead a coalition of opposition, of Venezuelan opposition, to win up to 67 percent of the ballot in the 2024 presidential elections in July.

The person that it seems will work with the Trump administration in ruling the country, the person that at least holds the cards in her hands right now, is Delcy Rodriguez, the vice president, so Maduro's deputy who is first the acting head of state following the fall of Nicolas Maduro.

But most crucially, Erin, she's also the president of the Venezuelan oil industry, the Venezuelan oil company PDVSA, which, yes, is under U.S. sanction. It's been under U.S. sanction since 2019 with the oil embargo, and we've seen that being taken into place with the seizure of several of its tankers in the last few weeks before Christmas.

However, if you want to restore the Venezuelan oil production capacity, Delcy Rodriguez is the quickest and cleanest way to do it because she has been there in the past, she has been there over the years managing the oil industry, and she has already a track record of working with U.S. companies, one of them being Chevron, which has been allowed to operate in Venezuela throughout this year despite the embargo. The point, Erin, however, we don't know where Delcy is. Delcy has been speaking -- everyone calls her Delcy. We should call her Mrs. Rodriguez. We don't know where she is because she's been speaking on Venezuelan television on the phone several times throughout this Saturday. However, we have not seen her live on television. We don't even know whether she's in Caracas. Reuters, for example, is reporting that she might be in Russia. We cannot confirm that. We just don't know where she is.

However, we do understand that she's the one calling the shots and that she did speak with Secretary of State Marco Rubio on what a transition could look like, Erin.

BURNETT: Stefano, thank you very much. And just incredible, as he points out, that the vice president that Trump has said is nominally in charge right now is only joined by phone on that state television. But also, Stefano said that there's even speculation of where she may be. They don't know if she's even in the country, possibly even in Russia. Just a stunning thing to think about this and to emphasize that when you think about how important Venezuela is to both Russia, militarily, and also to China, which buys its oil. Thank you very much, Stefano, joining us.

And we're going to go next to New York. That is where Trump says President Maduro is heading -- could be heading, in fact, to the facility that you see on your screen right now. We'll be right back.

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