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Venezuela's Nicolas Maduro Arrives in New York After Capture by U.S.; Interview with Representative Eric Swalwell (D-CA). Bondi: Maduro will Face Full Wrath of U.S. Justice on American Soil; Aired: 7-8p ET

Aired January 03, 2026 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[19:00:00]

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: -- tried to free a prisoner, tried to stage a breakout. So layers and layers and layers are added on. We saw a lot of them right there in terms of the armored vehicle, the counter assault team in case there was an assault on motorcade the numerous blockages of traffic between where they are and where they're going.

But that is something that they've experienced. And you will see that as they move from that jail, to the court for the arraignment on Monday. And if there's a trial, you may see it on a daily basis.

JESSICA DEAN, CNN ANCHOR: Right. It's really fascinating.

All right, John, thank you.

I do want to go to Jim Sciutto, as well, as we're watching this play out -- Jim.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Jessica, I would just say we have to remember how we got to this moment of those helicopters landing on the West Side Highway. Nicolas Maduro was president of Venezuela, a Latin American country of tens of millions of people, until this morning, when he and his wife were taken out of their bedroom by the U.S. Delta Force in a highly complex military operation to, in effect, decapitate the leadership of a major country in Latin America.

It is a remarkable, I don't say ending, but just next chapter, right, this arrival in New York for prosecution in an enormous event with a whole long list of questions still to be answered, one of the most prominent of which is, who's going to replace Nicolas Maduro? And who does the U.S., which carried out this operation, want to replace Nicolas Maduro? Because it was the position of the Trump administration until a short time ago, until weeks, perhaps months ago, that it should be the opposition.

For instance, the Nobel Prize winner, Maria Corina Machado, and there were public statements of support. Those have waned. And today, this morning, the president, as he announced this operation and Maduro's removal, was praising Maduro's deputy, the vice president of that country, Delcy Rodriguez, saying that she wants to do everything she can, and I'm paraphrasing to some degree here, to make Venezuela great again.

This is quite remarkable if that would be this administration's position to prosecute Maduro, bring him to the U.S., replace him with a vice president from that same regime. We'll see. And then we'll also see what the U.S. investment is going to be in assuring such a transition or moving on to new elections. He says he's willing to put U.S. troops on the ground. How many and for how long?

Quite a remarkable several hours here, given what we're seeing now in New York. But what it means for what Maduro left behind.

DEAN: Absolutely, Jim, and you make some great points. And here as we start our top of the hour at 7:00, we have what Jim -- thank you. Jim. What Jim just laid out which is, which is what brought us to this point. It's been an incredible day that started really under the cover of darkness. And now here we are with questions in different buckets, which include what Jim was just talking about. What is the future of Venezuela?

President Trump saying that America will be running it. But how does that work? And what does it mean for Venezuelan leadership, for the opposition forces there in Venezuela? Also, what is Congress going to do about it? There are some people in Congress who are very upset that they were not consulted about this. What role might they have? And then, of course, the broader implications globally. What does this mean around the world?

These are all things that we are following. And then, of course, the legal piece of this, and that's where we want to bring back in John Miller, because, John, now we come here to New York City again, just across the street where those helicopters landed just a few moments ago. And you were just taking our viewers through what it looks like as this motorcade makes its way to the secure location where the president of Venezuela, who has been taken by U.S. forces in this incredible operation, now here on U.S. soil, and his wife are going to be booked like we would see I assume a normal, you know, they will have to go through the process like anyone else in the federal judicial system.

But I would imagine that there will be, when they get to wherever they'll be spending the night, the detention center, it will be a bit different because of how profile they are -- high profile they are.

MILLER: So that's where we are right now. The pictures you're looking at are them arriving at that secure law enforcement facility. This is where they're going to be -- going through the booking process. And then they'll be making the move from there to the next leg of their journey, which will end up at the Metropolitan Detention Center in Brooklyn, where they'll be held pending an arraignment.

They're facing very complicated charges and a complicated case, but aside from what's included in the indictment in the alleged charges, there are also a number of other people charged in this case and previous cases. Some of whom have pled guilty. [19:05:00]

Many of whom are former government officials. Some of them are drug traffickers. So you can see what is coming in terms of a trial where they are going to face witnesses who have probably or likely created their own deals with the U.S. government and the Justice Department to get whatever they could get in return for cooperation. Who will testify allegedly about things that President Maduro ordered them to do, or things that his wife ordered them to do when she was a government official on a different level, or things he may have told them to do when he was the minister of foreign affairs.

So it's going to be a lengthy process. It may be as much as a year between now and the time that this trial actually starts, where he'll be held in U.S. custody. And all of that begins with what's unfolding right now, which is fingerprints and a mug shot. Face this way, face that way. And then, you know, being taken to that federal lockup, which does not have the greatest reputation in terms of the conditions there. So it will be a shock to the system for both of them in terms of a dramatic change in lifestyle and comfort.

DEAN: And what might -- what accommodations, I guess, might they make to protect them, to keep them safe because they are more high profile? And then my other question, too, John, if you can help us understand, why New York? Why prosecute them here?

MILLER: Well, New York is one of the places where drugs ended up. It's the case where the investigation began with the DEA's New York office, where the prosecutions began with the Southern District of New York, the U.S. Attorney's office. Elie Honig, our legal adviser here on CNN and a former assistant U.S. attorney from the Southern District, described to us in the last hour about establishing venue, which means some element of the crime or crimes occurred here, which is drug dealing, wholesaling, distribution occurred here and other things.

That's what gives them venue. The other thing that gives them venue is, if you are extradited from a foreign country and you land in the United States, that place you land is the venue because that's where you touch ground on the U.S. In this case, it was Stewart Air National Guard Base, which gives them a different kind of venue.

But, Jessica, this case has lived in New York for a long time with these investigators. DEA investigators, later FBI investigators. The first indictment in 2020, a superseding indictment with more charges after that. Another superseding indictment under the Trump administration, which folded in new charges, but also, the alleged involvement between President Maduro and Tren de Aragua, the gang, and how they were allegedly used in furtherance of this enterprise. So it's multilayered.

DEAN: Yes, certainly.

John, stand by. Please stay with us. I do want to go out to our colleague, Evan Perez, who is outside that detention center.

And, Evan when we left you just a few moments ago, that motorcade was on the move. Ostensibly, it will end up eventually where you are. But John was just walking through, and I think you were touching on this as well, just how long this case has been building. You were talking about all the agents that have worked on this for a long time.

What more can you tell us from your vantage point?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, before we get there what we're seeing a lot of activity here with sort of the preparations for Nicolas Maduro's arrival here at the Metropolitan Detention Center.

Let me just set the scene a little bit. This is the massive facility. This is a place where he will be held while he awaits trial. The police have now blocked off all access to this street which is on the Brooklyn waterfront. Just nearby, there is a crowd building. Certainly, it appears to be members of the Venezuelan community. There's a large Venezuelan community here in in New York City.

And so a number of people have started arriving here, some of them with Venezuelan flags. And every time people are driving by, people are blowing their horns, beeping their horns on their cars. So there's a bit of a change in atmosphere that is happening here as we speak. I mean, I think some of the reactions certainly from the New York Venezuelan community is perhaps celebration of what has occurred just in the last -- in this past day, with the arrest of Nicolas Maduro.

We've also seen just a little while ago some HR team members or perhaps SWAT team members who have arrived. These are people who are going to be here to help secure his arrival. Again, we expect that's going to happen perhaps in the next hour or so because it's going to take a little while to get from Lower Manhattan to Brooklyn.

[19:10:09]

But certainly, Jessica, going back to what you were asking, I think, you know, I was talking to folks, you know, who have been involved in overseeing this investigation over the last couple of years. And one of the things that they told me is simply, you know, how much work has gone into this? These are the -- these are investigators who have been behind some, you know, other big notable cases, including, you know, the arrest of Viktor Bout.

There's a number of people in other Central American countries, for instance, in Guatemala, government leaders who were brought also to the United States to face criminal charges related to drug trafficking. This is something that has been ongoing, obviously, for a number of years. And so this Maduro case has sort of built on, you know, again, more than a decade of work.

One of one the other things that I think we should mention here is this is the same facility that Juan Orlando Hernandez, who was the former president of Honduras, this is where he was held. You remember that he was sentenced to 45 years in prison for drug trafficking, for essentially helping drug cartels traffic drugs from South America, from Venezuela, from Colombia through Central America, Honduras into the United States. The president of the United States, of course, gave a pardon to

Hernandez just a few weeks ago. So there's great irony here that essentially the United States is exchanging one alleged drug trafficker, one convicted drug trafficker in the case of Hernandez, for one president of Venezuela, who is accused of the very same crimes -- Jessica.

DEAN: Yes, certainly. And you know, we can see the activity really growing behind you as well, Evan. Quite a difference from when we saw you just a few minutes ago. All right, stand by. We will touch base with you as we get closer to that arrival.

I do want to go to our colleague Omar Jimenez, who was there when the helicopters, Omar, touched down right there behind you. Just to give people a sense of where you are, you are on the far west side of Manhattan, very close to where we are broadcasting right now. So very much in the middle of New York City when these helicopters touch down.

Describe for people what that looked like and what the scene has been.

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. So we are essentially right at a heliport on the west side of Manhattan here. And I actually just want to give you an idea, if you look behind me here, you can see just a smattering of some NYPD, some New York fire officials as well. But this is what was completely packed just a few moments ago. And you may actually be able to see this little gate here that's under these two flags.

That was where a white van in the midst of that, in the midst of that motorcade, had essentially backed up into which would have given them the opportunity to load Maduro and his wife directly on. And the reason we believe that may be the case is because earlier, when there was much less law enforcement, we actually saw them going -- law enforcement going back and forth through that gate, sort of tracing what appeared to be a potential path.

And then once they had Maduro and his wife into that van, which is what we believe to be the case, that was when the motorcade moved pretty quickly. And you can see the traffic moving behind me. Now, this was completely shut down. A very, very busy part of Manhattan on this West Side Highway going both directions. And then they went south that way. That was the initial location or the initial direction they went.

Now, we know generally that sort of the next phase here is they will be processed. We know there are federal criminal charges that Maduro, his wife and others will face as part of this, and that will happen at a later portion. But this initial stage, watching the helicopters come in, this is a path that we had essentially been tracking from the Caribbean, coming all the way to New York City and then going from a base north of the city here by helicopter to this heliport here, then by motorcade.

And sort of continues the processing that were going to be looking for moving forward. But I cannot emphasize enough the difference between just 30 minutes ago, when this place was crawling with law enforcement from various jurisdictions, NYPD, DEA and others to now with the streets open, still a little bit of law enforcement presence here. So we're going to continue to monitor and see what may come next.

But to see those two helicopters landing here, at the very least two, and move forward is pretty remarkable -- Jessica.

DEAN: It was incredible, too, the speed with which it all happened. They were there, then they were not then that traffic was flowing again.

Omar Jimenez, thank you so much for being there with us. Again, following this breaking news that started overnight when special forces took President Nicolas Maduro and his wife, and now they are here on U.S. soil.

[19:15:03]

They are in New York City currently being booked. We're going to continue to follow this. We're going to squeeze in a quick break. We'll be right.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.

DEAN: The president of Venezuela now on U.S. soil after U.S. forces took him from his bed overnight during a large scale military operation in the Latin American country. Nicolas Maduro walking off a plane in the U.S. tonight under the cover of darkness. He and his wife now facing multiple drug and weapons charges.

Earlier, missiles lit up the skies as the U.S. launched attacks in the capital city of Caracas. The president making it clear the U.S. will be involved in what happens next in Venezuela.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're going to run the country until such time as we can do a safe, proper and judicious transition.

[19:20:05]

So we don't want to be involved with having somebody else get in. And we have the same situation that we had for the last long period of years. So we are going to run the country until such time as we can do a safe, proper and judicious transition. And it has to be judicious because that's what we're all about.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: Joining us now, CNN national security correspondent Kylie Atwood.

Kylie, tell us what we've learned about the logistics of this operation. KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Jessica, we

received remarkable details about this operation that unfolded overnight earlier today from President Trump, members of his National Security Team, and specifically from General Dan Caine, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. He said that it was last night, 10:46 p.m., when President Trump gave the green light for the U.S. Military to carry out this operation, which was months in the making.

He said it was around 2:00 in the morning local time in Venezuela when the extraction team arrived at Maduro's compound. The helicopters that they arrived in did come under fire, though the helicopters were not downed as a result of that fire.

I want you to listen to some of the other details that General Dan Caine provided during that briefing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEN. DAN CAINE, CHAIRMAN, JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF: It involved more than 150 aircraft launching across the Western Hemisphere in close coordination, all coming together in time and place to layer effects for a single purpose to get an interdiction force into downtown Caracas after months of work by our intelligence teammates to find Maduro and understand how he moved, where he lived, where he traveled, what he ate, what he wore, what were his pets. In early December, our force was set pending a series of aligned events.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ATWOOD: Now, obviously, this happened in the dead of night, but President Trump said that most of the lights in Caracas had been turned off due to an expertise that the United States has. He didn't go into detail, but presumably that expertise is related to the fact that the CIA had been given the green light to set up operations according to sources familiar with this planning, all the way at the end of the summer. So they had been there in some way, shape or form on the ground in Venezuela, which enabled this operation to take place.

Now, President Trump also said today that a second round of strikes would take place if necessary, though he didn't give an indication that he believed earlier today that that second round would be necessary. We'll watch and see, of course, where that goes, because he didn't count out the possibility of U.S. troops being on the ground, saying he is -- the United States is not worried about troops being on the ground specifically to secure the oil there -- Jessica.

DEAN: All right. Kylie Atwood from Washington with the latest on how this all went down. Thank you so much for that.

We're also getting a lot of reaction, a lot of political reaction to this operation. A lot of it has been along party lines with many Democrats calling the overnight actions criminal, saying they were done without approval from Congress and Republicans cheering this, although there are some nuances across the board.

Democratic Congressman Eric Swalwell is joining us now.

Congressman, thanks for your time. We're glad to have you here.

REP. ERIC SWALWELL (D-CA): Of course.

DEAN: It's good to see you. The president and his administration today going to great lengths to talk about how this is a Department of Justice operation. Law enforcement that was supported by the Department of Defense, by the military. Legally speaking, do you believe this is within the DOJ's purview?

SWALWELL: Absolutely not. Vladimir Putin has an arrest warrant, you know, out for his conduct in Ukraine, and Donald Trump certainly is not going and arresting Vladimir Putin and invading that country and saying that we're going to run it without a plan. And, of course, you know, Donald Trump was always going to violate the Constitution and invade Venezuela. He's done the exact opposite of what he's promised he'd do since he took office.

And that is, frankly, the biggest betrayal he's made as president. He promised he'd end all wars on day one. In two weeks he's bombed Nigeria, Syria, and now Venezuela. He said he'd lower costs on day one, and then he put a tariff tax in place that has raised everyone's costs. And he said he released the Epstein files and of course he has buried them.

So politicians make promises all the time. That happens. But almost none of them do the exact opposite of what got them elected. And that's what Donald Trump just did with this action in Venezuela.

DEAN: We heard the Secretary of State Marco Rubio saying at the press conference this morning that this -- again, this is a paraphrase. I'm paraphrasing here, but essentially that people should take President Trump at his word that if he says he's going to do it in this case, he took action, he acted. He didn't just hold press conferences and he says, and the president says this as well, that today's actions mean Americans are safer. You disagree with them?

[19:25:11]

SWALWELL: Well, I do, and, you know, I talk to Californians all over the state and going into Venezuela and, quote, "running that country" ranks at about 200th on their priorities. They're not focused on Venezuela. They're focused on the cost in Ventura and Vallejo, the rent in Los Angeles and the grocery prices in Pasadena. And they have no faith that Donald Trump can run a country. He couldn't run a casino, and now he's going to run a country in South America, while we watch as he fails to run a country in North America?

That doesn't add up. And neither does this whole concept that were going to get the oil from Venezuela and that it will pay for itself essentially. We heard that over 20 years ago from George Bush that we'd get the oil from Iraq, and that cost us $3 trillion.

DEAN: And as I noted at the top, we have seen mixed reactions, as, you know, as people kind of metabolize all of this, both from politicians, but also from Americans. And we have seen real celebration from Americans who have ties to Venezuela or came from that part of the world. What do you say to them tonight?

SWALWELL: Again, Maduro is a vicious, illegitimate dictator in a world with a lot of vicious, illegitimate dictators like in North Korea, like in Russia. But what the president has done without going to Congress and Congress, by the way, we're either going to be a check or a cosigner for the president. And right now it looks like this speaker wants to be a cosigner. And if you're not going to go to the Congress and he's not going to have a plan, all that does is cost us more.

Again, we were promised costs would come down in America on day one. The president is O for 350, and he's just added 30 million more people who are going to drain resources from a country that is already in quicksand as it relates to just getting by.

DEAN: All right. Congressman Eric Swalwell, thanks for your time. We appreciate it.

SWALWELL: My pleasure. Thanks, Jessica.

DEAN: Still to come, Nicolas Maduro and his wife set to face federal drug and weapons charges. Could the prosecution face any legal challenges? A CNN lawyer and national security analyst weighs in on this next.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:36:40]

DEAN: And we are back now with more on our breaking news as Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro officially in custody on U.S. soil, landing in New York City just a short time ago via helicopter.

Maduro and his wife set to face drugs and weapons charges here after being detained overnight in a massive U.S. military operation in Venezuela and joining us now, CNN national security analyst, Carrie Cordero.

Carrie, thank you so much for being here with us.

I do think there are a lot of legal questions around this that are worth sorting through. Attorney General Pam Bondi writing on social media today that Nicolas Maduro has been charged with narcoterrorism conspiracy, cocaine importation conspiracy, possession of machine guns and destructive devices, and conspiracy to possess machine guns and destructive devices against the United States.

So knowing all of this, what would you -- how would you explain the legal precedent for charging the president of another nation with these types of crimes in our federal justice system?

CARRIE CORDERO, CNN LEGAL AND NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Jessica, it is obviously a very significant indictment. It has these wide ranging crimes. It is really a conspiracy for drug trafficking and corruption over a period of decades, as it is laid out in the newly unsealed, superseding indictment.

And Maduro and his associates have been under investigation for many, many years by the Justice Department and it spans across administrations. He also was originally charged back in March of 2020 and indicted in the Southern District of New York, and so this new indictment updates the charges, updates the activities over the last few years and really builds out the international terrorism organizations or the drug trafficking organizations that the administration is alleging that he was involved with and engaging in activities on behalf of.

There have been other cases in U.S. modern history of former heads of state. More recently, there was the former president of Honduras, who was convicted after a trial in the United States for some of the similar types of charges, and then if we look back a few decades, probably the most similar case is that of the late 1980s, when the U.S. government charged and then actually did go into the country to extract Manuel Noriega in Panama. So that's probably the other more significant case that we can look to as far as precedent.

DEAN: Right. And what kind of challenges do you expect prosecutors might face here? I mean, what is to come next?

CORDERO: You know, it is a criminal matter, because there are some of these other really significant drug trafficking cases, including some of these selected examples of former heads of states who have been alleged and given the expertise that resides in the Southern District of New York, both in handling complex drug prosecutions, as well as a very long record of sophisticated terrorism prosecutions.

You know, there is some experience that they have in bringing these kinds of cases and I think the question really depends as far as challenges that they will face in terms of what type of defense Maduro and then later his associates, if they are, and his wife are brought to charges, what type of defense that they will launch.

So in other words, will they try to make some type of deal? Will they try to plead? Will they try to arrange something with the administration to get out of facing these charges on a long term basis?

[19:35:10]

But, you know, in the former Honduran president example, that case actually went to trial and then there was a conviction after it. So it just depends on how Maduro intends to handle this prosecution.

DEAN: It will be quite interesting. Carrie Cordero, good to have you. Thank you so much.

CORDERO: Thanks.

DEAN: Coming up, we are going to examine the covert intel that went into tracking maduro before his capture. You're in the CNN NEWSROOM. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DEAN: And we are back now with our breaking news out of Venezuela and the capture of President Nicolas Maduro by U.S. military forces overnight in a massive operation. Maduro now officially in custody on U.S. soil, landing in New York City just a short time ago.

[19:40:10]

CNN global affairs correspondent, Sabrina Singh joining us now, along with CNN national security analyst, Peter Bergen.

Good to have both of you here this evening.

Peter, I want to talk to you first about the CIA and how it has been tracking we are told all of Maduro's movements for some time now. What type of intelligence had to go into an operation like this?

PETER BERGEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, Jessica, I thought it was very interesting that there were so many details about the safe room that Maduro tried to get to, but didn't get there successfully. That would imply somebody with some real inside knowledge about this so-called fortress where he was hiding.

So is that a bodyguard? Is that a close acquaintance or friend of Maduro? It was certainly somebody who had a lot of access to him.

I thought it was also interesting that Chairman Caine, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, specifically mentioned NGIA, which is the National Geospatial Intelligence Agency. Now, typically in these operations, they build an exact replica if they have the time and the intelligence of the actual kind of target that they're going into, and President Trump told Fox that indeed, such a building had been built.

I suspect that that building was probably built at Fort Bragg, as was the case in other of these kinds of operations where a Joint Special Operations Command is based. I don't know that for a fact, but it seems quite likely so that they would have had plenty of rehearsal time on a building that was an exact replica.

DEAN: Yes, it is really -- it is fascinating to think about what went into this.

And Sabrina, sources tell CNN the Trump administration officials are internally pointing to a 1989 legal opinion in the subsequent U.S. invasion of Panama as precedent to justify today's operation. What is your reaction to that?

SABRINA SINGH, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS COMMENTATOR: Yes, I think that that is sort of the concern that you're hearing out from both sides of the aisle is what is the legality here of an operation like this? Of course, you know, the United States, other countries around the world did not recognize the Maduro regime as a legitimate government, as in fact, he was not.

But how this operation was conducted and the fact that this administration went to Congress and said that, you know, they are pursuing a case of narcoterrorism and drug trafficking, where we clearly know that was not the case. I mean, this and for all intents and purposes, was always about regime change, was always about getting access to those oil fields and Donald Trump was very clear today. He said, we are going to extract the wealth out of Venezuela with those oil fields.

And so there are a lot of questions, even though the administration is pointing to different opinions, there is still a lot of questions of the legality of all of this. And I think, frankly, a lot more questions for Congress to ask, because if this administration is saying that the United States is going to so-called run Venezuela, what does that mean exactly? Because that is going to mean extensive boots on the ground. How long is our presence going to remain? Are we going to oversee elections? Are we going to oversee their courts?

So there are a lot of questions surrounding the legality, but also what are the next steps in this process?

DEAN: Yes, and Peter, that is what I wanted to know, your thoughts on as well is, is when the President said the U.S. will run Venezuela and then also too, you know, talked about the opposition leader and how, you know, suddenly he has really cooled on that. What might that look like in terms of what the U.S. involvement is and what happens inside Venezuela with its government?

BERGEN: Well, the short answer is who the hell knows, because it didn't seem to be very clear in that press conference.

I mean, he pointed to Secretary Hegseth, and Secretary Rubio as sort of vaguely being in charge. But, you know President Obama said after the overthrow of Gaddafi that his biggest mistake of his presidency, in his view, was that he didn't plan for the day after.

Now, Libya is still in a Civil War, you know, 15 years after that event with two different governments and many countries having proxy war forces inside Libya. Now, Libya is not Venezuela and we can't predict -- you know, history doesn't repeat itself necessarily, but we can certainly hear a rhyme or two.

And so your question is, Jessica, are great ones, but they are basically unanswerable at this stage because even if you do some sort of very basic math about the size of the kind of police force that you would need to police a country with 30 million people, that's a very large number.

And right now the police, as far as we can tell, the Security Forces have remained loyal to the Maduro regime. Now, will that change? We certainly don't want to make the mistake the United States made in Iraq, where we fired the entire Security Forces, 720,000 people, which led to anarchy and chaos.

So if you're president, you have a rather unappealing set of kind of options here, because you don't want to get rid of the Security Forces, but they are the very group of people that are propping up the regime. So what do you do? And then, of course, you don't want to send in large numbers of American boots on the ground.

[19:45:15]

So, you know, all of these are very tricky questions. And, you know, now we own it, the United States.

DEAN: And Sabrina, to that end, what is going on behind the scenes right now as the American government tries to work this out, they're talking to Venezuela, obviously, the Department of Defense where you used to work, heavily involved in all of this. What might that look like behind-the-scenes?

SINGH: Yes, I can imagine that there are probably hourly briefings at this point between the National Security Council and the President's most inner team, getting updates on the ground and getting assessments on you know, what are the next steps? I mean, I am sure there was some type of contingency -- I would hope there was some type of contingency planning being done about, you know, when Maduro is gone, what happens.

But, you know, as the President said, and I think at that press conference that we saw today was quite remarkable in the fact that he said the U.S. is going to run Venezuela. I don't think anyone was anticipating that because that does most likely mean substantial boots on the ground.

So there are likely conversations happening between the Intelligence Community, the Department of Defense, the State Department, and of course, just the broader, you know, National Security apparatus. And then, of course, we are going to have to be engaging our diplomatic partners in the region and all around the world.

You know, we've seen events like this happen in history with Libya and Iraq. They can spill over into the region and cause incredible destabilization. So what does that mean? And I am sure there is contingency planning going into effect there.

And then lastly, I think the broader question here, in terms of conversations, Congress was clearly left out of these conversations. So I think, there is a lot of channeling back and forth between this administration to likely brief lawmakers, I would assume come Monday, there are going to be calls for hearings if they haven't been already.

And there is just a lot of unresolved answers that it seems like by the hour we keep getting more questions.

DEAN: All right, Peter Bergen and Sabrina Singh, thanks to both of you. We appreciate it.

We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:51:36]

DEAN: A U.S. official says Venezuelan officials have detained at least five Americans. Their circumstances we are told, vary, and officials are still trying to work out exactly why they've been detained.

Now, today, President Trump said Venezuela in his words, "better not touch one of them." But their immediate fate remains unknown amid everything that has transpired in less than 24 hours.

U.S. Marine veteran, Matthew Heath spent two years in the Venezuelan prison where those Americans are likely being held. He was released in 2022 and joins us now to talk more about this.

Thank you so much for being here with us, Matthew.

First, just give people a sense of what it was like for you to be held as an American in that Venezuelan prison.

MATTHEW HEATH, U.S. MARINE VETERAN HELD IN VENEZUELA FOR TWO YEARS: Well, thank you for having me on.

Well, being held in a Venezuelan prison is the -- it is a nightmare. I was held for 11 months before I was allowed to contact my family and you can imagine that that kind of separation is a pain for your family. You know, it is damaging to you. It is a true nightmare.

And, you know, my heart goes out to the five Americans that we know of that are detained in Venezuela right now. I am sure they're going through a lot of fear and uncertainty. I am sure that they are thinking, well, if the government could take out Nicolas Maduro out of this country, why are we still here?

DEAN: What kind of -- you hinted a little bit at this, but what kind of information were you given? Did you have any communication with the outside world?

HEATH: That's a great question. The Venezuelan government is -- it is a socialist government. They are very closely aligned with the Russian government and their treatment of prisoners is very poor.

I wasn't allowed to speak English for the first several months. Anyone in the prison who spoke English was moved away from me. So there was as close to a total blackout on information as possible for me, and I imagine it was very similar for the Americans that are detained down there right now.

So, to be quite honest with you, I imagine that they are in the dark. They don't really know what is going on.

DEAN: They may not know.

HEATH: And if they're lucky -- yes, they may not know.

DEAN: Right, right. And just so people know, what was your situation? Why were you imprisoned and what ultimately led to your release?

HEATH: Well, like many Americans who were traveling through Venezuela, just having an American passport is enough to be detained.

Nicolas Maduro over the last 12 years has detained over 40 Americans, wrongfully detained over 40 Americans simply for being a pawn in his larger political game. I was traded for the nephews of President Maduro, along with a few other Americans, and I think Nicolas Maduro is probably thinking about that tonight.

DEAN: What do you want Americans to know? Again, it is at least five Americans being held and as you note what U.S. officials think is that they were being held or are being held for some sort of leverage. Again, they are trying to kind of sort through exactly what their circumstances are.

But what do you think Americans should know about this? As we learn more about what happened today.

HEATH: Well, I'd like to send a short message out to the Vice President Delcy Rodriguez and ask her to immediately release the Americans that she is holding as a goodwill gesture as their new government transitions.

To Americans, I would like to say, there are amazing organizations out there like Hostage U.S., which I volunteer with. They supported me to help get you home and they can -- they can provide a lot of education about people who travel to environments that are not like the United States, that are a little bit rougher.

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There's definitely some places that you shouldn't go. So I would caution anybody that's about to travel to read up on the State Department Travel Advisories and please follow them.

DEAN: All right, Matthew Heath, thanks for your time tonight. We really appreciate it.

HEATH: Thank you. Have a great night.

DEAN: You, too.

As uncertainty grows over the future of Venezuela's economy, following President Maduro's arrest, many are flooding into grocery stores to stock up on essentials -- this is video -- take a look from inside a supermarket in the nation's capital of Caracas, and you see the lines there stretching to the back of the store with people stockpiling food, water and medication as locals worry about possible disruptions in the supply chain there.

Meanwhile, back here in the U.S. in Florida, cheering crowds filling the streets in the city of Doral, one of the largest Venezuelan communities here in the United States.

Thank you so much for joining me this evening. I am Jessica Dean. We have much more information and news for you tonight.

Our breaking news coverage continues with Kaitlan Collins after this short break.

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