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Venezuela's Maduro Arrives At Brooklyn Detention Center. Aired 9-10p ET

Aired January 03, 2026 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: We haven't seen any information of who might be representing him. We expect that we're going to see that perhaps tomorrow. We're going to get some information about that tomorrow. Obviously, as Elie was pointing out, Nicolas Maduro, at least according to the US Government, has a lot of resources at his disposal. The US, of course, has put a lot of sanctions on those resources.

But, you know, part of the process here in the United States is that, the US Government is not allowed to essentially make you not able to afford a defense. And so that's one of the things that we expect to see argued in the coming days is how does he get to pay for a lawyer for a legal defense for him and his wife. That's again, obviously something that's going to unfold in the next few days.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Evan, is it safe to say he's now officially a prisoner of the US Government now that he's inside that facility?

PEREZ: Oh, yes, absolutely. I mean, I think he became a prisoner of the United States when the FBI agents who were part of that special operations force that went in to Caracas. That's the moment that he was placed under arrest.

That process, of course, then they brought him to the Iwo Jima and then to Guantanamo where they transferred him to a plane. And so, it's been a series of different transports in the custody of the United States. So that process began several hours ago.

COLLINS: Yes. Evan Perez, obviously, we're going to continue to stay with you as we are watching this play out. And for those who are just joining us, we are watching a remarkable scene play out live before our very eyes here in New York City tonight. Where Nicolas Maduro, the man who ruled Venezuela for more than a dozen years, is now a prisoner of the US Government as the almost 34 million people who lived under his reign in are left wondering who is running their country.

The President says for the time being, it is going to be the United States that is running Venezuela, he says, with a group. A lot of questions about the details of what that's going to look like. But we've been watching the former leader of Venezuela, the ousted leader just outside New York City, helicoptered inside Manhattan tonight, then to the Brooklyn facility where he is going to be held for the foreseeable future.

As you are seeing a heavy, heavy police presence that has been escorting him around the city, whether it's by motorcade, which is what took him to the Metropolitan Detention Center here, or by helicopter, as we saw earlier after he de planed here in New York City.

Elie Honig, I mean, just this moment, something that, you know, there have been real questions of what was going to happen. The President said earlier that he shouldn't have been surprised, Maduro or anyone else, because of the large US military buildup in the Caribbean. And now we're seeing this moment where he is in US custody and he'll before a US judge within a matter of days, if not hours from now.

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, I think what's so unexpected, Kaitlan, is that it would play out this way. Obviously, there was this military buildup happening around Venezuela, but that our government made the decision, we're going to go in, we're going to seize Maduro by force and his wife. We're going to bring them to the United States and subject them to trial in our civilian criminal courts is really a remarkable decision made by the President.

And I think they'll there's debate around it politically. But one thing I think we've learned over the years is that our criminal courts are fully capable of handling a prosecution like this.

Now, this will be different because we're talking about a former president of a sovereign nation, but we have seen trials in these federal courthouses in New York, in the Southern District of the leaders of the most dangerous narco groups, terrorist groups, mafia groups, you name it. Our courts have shown that they're capable of this.

And, you know, just historically speaking, there was a heated debate in the early 2000s about whether some of the terrorists associated with the 911 attacks, associated with al-Qaeda, should be tried in our criminal courts. And ultimately, the decision was made not to try them in our civilian criminal courts, and they were left to languish for decades in military prisons to really unsatisfying endings. So this is a monumental decision that's been made for by Donald Trump, by his administration.

I think history will show that it's a correct decision in terms of the legal way this will play out to give these people their day in court, give them the rights that our criminal defendants are due, give them a trial by jury and see what the outcome is.

COLLINS: Yes. And as we're watching this play out, Evan reports that he is now inside that facility where you're watching this massive police presence. It's not far, just a couple of miles, from where we are broadcasting right now. And, Rahm Emanuel, as you're looking at this, and we're talking about the legal process and what plays out. And Elie says the US courts are perfectly capable of handling this.

You can see the massive crowd that has been gathered outside there that Evan was reporting on earlier. The other question is the US military capable? Is the US itself capable of running Venezuela, as the President has put it? I mean, what does that look like to you?

[21:05:12]

RAHM EMANUEL, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL AND GLOBAL AFFAIRS COMMENTATOR: Well, I mean, when you look at the heads of states, whether it's Gaddafi, Noriega, whether you look at Hussein, you know, Hussein in Iraq, you look at all the people, heads of states that we've knocked off, we're pretty good at that, or taking them. We're not very good at nation building or nation administrating.

And this, I mean, the complexity of Venezuela doesn't compare to Libya, doesn't compare to Iraq, doesn't compare to Panama. So the scorecard here is very uneven in that sense of what our reputation is and our capability. And Panama is just a tenth of the size of Venezuela, a much more complex Venezuela.

And I also think that it's not just military, it's political we, which, you know why I think the President of United States, having thrown the democratic government basically under the bus, made a mistake. This is not a strong suit of the United States. It's not also what you want as a detour of our resources, given what we have to deal with in Ukraine, with Russia's war, Gaza Strip, in that area that now the same people are going to be running this.

This is a -- going to be a massive undertaking for a President of the United States that ran under the banner of America first and no nation building.

COLLINS: Yes. And, Rahm we saw that --

EMANUEL: It's going to be a very testing --

COLLINS: It's a huge test. I mean, I don't think anyone knows what the next 24 hours 48 or year looks like on this. But I want to show you because we saw that remarkable picture of Nicolas Maduro on board the USS Iwo Jima earlier. He was wearing the sweatsuit, the blinders, the noise insulating headphones.

We now just have a video of Maduro inside US custody. I want everyone to just stop and watch that for a moment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(Inaudible)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: I mean, Rahm Emanuel, as you're watching this video where Maduro is being transported through. You can see the DEA carpet that he's walking across going very slowly. He seems to say something, it's not totally clear what.

And a little bit of a smile almost at one point as he's walking. Rahm Emanuel, what do you see in this?

EMANUEL: Your guess -- I got to be honest, Kaitlan, your guess is good as mine. I think this is an attempt for the United States to project, here's what we've done to this leader. I think what you're looking at is a guy who's basically being used in this moment to send a message to the American people. And also not only American people, the worldwide.

That if the United States wants to act, we can act and we can literally go into a country, take somebody out in that effort. So I think it was basically --

COLLINS: I mean, I think he's saying happy New Year there at the end when I -- as I watch as he's walking through.

EMANUEL: Yes. I mean, I got to be honest. I can't tell what he's saying. I think the reason the United States wanted to film this and then put it out is for the very purpose to send a message around the world as well as our -- the domestic audience here. That is a political decision of why to communicate that that is what he said. Your guess is good as mine.

I do think, you know, it's also a statement in that story of here you have this guy. This was a flawless exercise by the United States military and a flawless exercise by the American intelligence. You got -- we're on the four year anniversary of the war with Russia, where it was supposed to be four weeks showing that their military can't do what the United States just did.

In China, they're firing their military heads and states for corruption charges and they just looked at air force, navy, intel and integrated operation. So a lot of these other countries around the world look at the United States and are taking note of what the United States military pulled off. Put aside the political ramifications, the legal ramifications, reputational ramifications.

A lot of people just saw the American military intelligence operating at a flawless capability. That's what I think, when I look at that picture, that's a message around the world just saying something to leaders that are now in their national security apparatuses, Kaitlan, are stepping back and going. What we got -- we've got to take a score here of what a measure of what the United States military pulled off.

I do think the second part of that picture, and I'll be real quick on this, the basically the pawns for Russia and China have been Syria, Venezuela, Cuba in this situation, and also Iran. And every one of those governments, either head of state, the country itself, the government is on its back heels, a failed state or have been deposed in both Syria and Venezuela. The pawns for Russia and China have just been diminished.

And that's a statement that they -- the leaders of those big countries can't stand by you. I do think America's reputation took a massive hit here beyond the legal consequences and the other constitutional questions that hopefully Congress will finally step up and do its job. But the reputational damage to the United States about basically throwing a democratically-elected government under the bus when we said the leader -- she's out in Europe or in hiding, she won't be basically put in place. [21:10:19]

Second, just a month ago, the United States -- the President commuted the sentence of the largest drug narco kingpin from Honduras. So the judge charges here don't stand up. And then third, we took an action that I think also saying we possess the oil, we're going to run this government when the American United States doesn't have a reputation or a capability of doing this.

There's a lot of damage done reputationally, but not to the military intelligence apparatus of the United States separate from what our government did well.

COLLINS: And President Trump was asked about that premise by my colleague Kevin Liptak earlier this -- the United States is mixed history of when it comes out. But hold on, Rahm, because, Beth Sander, you're here with me and I just have got to play this video again.

It is basically, I don't think this is a legal term. It's a perp walk that we're watching of Nicolas Maduro here inside the United States custody. The White House has just shared this photo where he appears to say happy New Year, it sounded like to me, Beth, at the end of this video. As you watch that, what's your reaction to seeing that?

BETH SANNER, FORMER DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE: Well, to pick up on Rahm's point, I actually think that a lot of this is about showing Venezuelans what is going on and showing this regime that appears. They thought that they were going to cooperate, but now they're not. And we have to remember, Elie can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that the other leaders in place right now are also indicted.

Cabello, Padrino, the interior minister, the defense minister, Rodriguez, the vice president. I think they also have indictments against them. So, you know, this is like this is your future if you don't cooperate. I think it shows a very strong message there.

I also wanted to make a very quick point about evidence. If this is like the Osama bin Laden raid, the military probably picked up a lot of computers and cell phones and documents. I don't know if that happened. I don't know if they're admissible in court, but we could have gotten quite a bit of information out of this extraction.

COLLINS: Yes. And clearly they had a lot of intelligence going into it in terms of Nicolas Maduro's daily routine. I want everyone to stay with us. We do have all of our experts in our analysis here as were seeing the first video of Nicolas Maduro in US custody as he is now being held at a detention facility here inside New York City.

We're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[21:16:45]

COLLINS: We are following breaking news here tonight as the Venezuelan president, Nicolas Maduro, is now a prisoner of the United States Government. He is currently being held at the Metropolitan Detention Center here in Brooklyn. And in the absence of Maduro, the President of the United States says it is the United States that is going to step in to run Venezuela for the time being seen.

CNN's Kevin Liptak is in West Palm Beach traveling with the President. And, Kevin, obviously you were at that press conference earlier. What did you make of what the President is saying or maybe not saying in terms of details of what this will look like?

KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE: Yes. He was extraordinarily vague about what exactly that meant. And I thought it was striking, you know, over there, Mar-a-Lago, for the amount of detail that they were offering about how this raid came together, you know, how the CIA had been on the ground tracking Maduro, even tracking Maduro's pets for months and months, when it came to this question of how the US is going to set up. You know, apparently this temporary protectorate in a country of 30 million people that's twice the size of California and has no official American presence.

You know, the American embassy there closed in 2019. They had virtually no answers for that. And the President was pressed over and over again about what exactly he meant by running Venezuela. Listen to some of the ways he answered all that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, UNITED STATES PRESIDENT: Well you know they always say boots on the ground, oh, so we're not afraid of boots on the ground. If we -- we have to have we had boots on the ground last night at a very high level actually, we're not afraid of it. We don't mind saying it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you explain the exact mechanism by which you're going to run the country. Are you going to designate a US official to coordinate --

TRUMP: It's all being -- it's all being done right now. We're designating people, we're talking to people, we're designating various people.

It's largely going to be for a period of time the people that are standing right behind me. We're going to be running it, we're going to be bringing it back.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIPTAK: So groups of people designated so people not entirely clear what the objective is here. You know we've covered the President for a long time, you and I, Kaitlan, and I don't know that you could think of a more consequential moment in either of his two presidencies for his own political future, for the hemisphere, for the entire world really. And I don't think you could listen to the President there and necessarily understand exactly how he envisions all of this going forward. COLLINS: Yes. It's something he sought for so long but the question now is what happens next there. Kevin Liptak, as you continue to report, keep us updated on what you're hearing. Thanks so much for joining us.

And this operation that led to this has been dubbed Operation Resolve, this military mission to go into Venezuela and capture the Maduros. We're told it took months to plan and CNN had previously reported that the CIA was monitoring the both of them. The Joint Chief's chairman, though, General Dan Caine, earlier said the United States deployed more than 150 aircraft in this ground operation that took hours as the forces did come under fire as it was carried out.

CNN's Kylie Atwood has been tracking the latest developments. And, Kylie, obviously -- clearly this was meticulously and extensively planned. What else are we learning about how this happened?

[21:20:02]

KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Remarkable detail that was provided by General Dan Caine, the chairman of the Joint Chief of Staff, earlier today, standing alongside President Trump and the other members of his national security team. Saying that it was last night, just less than 24 hours ago, Kaitlan, that President Trump gave the green light for this military operation to be carried out.

It was around 2:00 in the morning local time in Venezuela, when the extraction team via helicopters arrived at Maduro's compound. Those helicopters were shot up, but they were not downed. Listen to some of the other details that Dan Caine provided.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAN CAINE, CHAIRMAN, JOINT CHIEF OF STAFF: It involved more than 150 aircraft launching across the Western Hemisphere in close coordination, all coming together in time and place to layer effects for a single purpose, to get an interdiction force and into downtown Caracas. After months of work by our intelligence teammates to find Maduro and understand how he moved, where he lived, where he traveled, what he ate, what he wore, what were his pets. In early December, our force was set pending a series of aligned events.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ATWOOD: Now, obviously, Kaitlan, as Kevin was saying, we don't know many details about what happens from here on out with the United States, according to Trump, planning to take over control of Venezuela, notably, though not endorsing the opposition today very explicitly, and saying that the people standing behind President Trump, including the Secretary of State and the Secretary of Defense, would be leading a team working with Venezuelans to lead the country.

We don't know which Venezuelans, however, will be working with the United States on those efforts. We should note that members of the Trump administration had been planning for quite some time now for what this would actually look like, the day after a Maduro ouster. We had reported on that just earlier this month, but they were very, very sparse in providing those details today.

And when it comes to the energy infrastructure in Venezuela to build up that oil extraction that President Trump made very clear he wants to do. I talked to oil experts who said, listen, those companies are not going to be going into the country without political stability there. And right now that's very unclear. Kaitlan?

COLLINS: Yes, especially given the country's history and past relationships with those very companies. Kylie Atwood, thank you for that reporting.

And I should note this operation was not just a surprise to Americans who woke up this morning. The Trump administration says it also did notify Congress ahead of this raid.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARCO RUBIO, US SECRETARY OF STATE: It's just not the kind of mission that you can pre notify because it endangers the mission.

TRUMP: If I can add one thing to that, Congress has a tendency to leak. This would not be good. If they leaked, general, I think it would have been maybe a very different result. But I have to say they knew were coming at some point, you know. A lot of ships out there, they sort of knew.

Congress will leak, and we don't want to leak.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: Joining me tonight is the Colorado Democratic Congressman, Jason Crow, who is a member of the House Intelligence Committee. And it's great to have you here because I want your thoughts on what we heard from Secretary Rubio there. But we're seeing this video from the White House that was just released showing basically the perp walk of Nicolas Maduro tonight.

At the end, he appears to wish someone who's in the video, maybe one of the agents, a happy New Year. What's your reaction to this video? What stands out to you, sir?

REP. JASON CROW (D-CO): Well, the whole day, all I can think about, Kaitlan, is the 20 years, trillions of dollars, thousands of American lives that we spent in Iraq and Afghanistan without votes, without accountability, without Congress putting an end to it, trying to nation build. And here we are once again toppling a foreign regime in control, trying to run a foreign country for its oil.

I cannot begin to describe for you how deeply unpopular this entire thing is with the American people who are struggling to pay their rent, who can't pay for their health care, who are struggling to pay for groceries. And here's Donald Trump, who promised to fix all of that, engaged in the very thing that we just spent 20 years failing to do in other countries around the world.

COLLINS: Trump has been pretty critical of nation building and of his predecessors and the presidency for that very point. I mean, do you think that this isn't about face, given how he defended it today at Mar-A-Lago?

CROW: I think Donald Trump is really good at telling people what they want to hear and then doing whatever the hell he wants to do. That's what I think Donald Trump is doing here. He knows that his poll numbers are tanking. He knows he's not focused on the economy. He knows that he's deeply unpopular throughout this country.

He knows that the health care system is a wreck and people's health care is devastating households across the country, so he's trying to distract. And he feels like projecting power and doing something that shows how tough he can be will somehow turn this around for him.

[21:25:16]

But it's not going to fly. Americans are still suffering. They're still not making ends meet. And the last thing they want is us spending tens of billions or hundreds of billions or, God forbid, more trying to nation build again in another country. And what's worse here is it's tough enough thinking about doing that in Iraq and Afghanistan, around the world.

Think about what happens if this goes south, which it very well may, in a country that's within boating distance of the United States.

COLLINS: Do you think it's a good thing though that Maduro is no longer in power in Venezuela?

CROW: There's no doubt that Maduro is a dictator and is a brutal person, but is it the job of the United States to depose every dictator and then to try to step in and run every country around the world just because we don't agree with or we think that somebody is brutal? Is that the job of Americans? Does America have to pay for that? Does the military have to do that everywhere?

And let's not forget also the real play here, Kaitlan, is that he wants to enrich the oil companies and the natural resources companies that he mentioned probably over a dozen times during his press conference. You know what, he didn't mention once this morning? He didn't mention once democracy.

He didn't mention the Venezuelan people and their right to self determination. In fact, the opposite, he undermined and said that the very people who have popular support in the last election, just last year, are not going to be the people that he's going to put in charge.

COLLINS: As a veteran, when the President was saying, you know, he's not scared to use the phrase "boots on the ground" as he did earlier. What does that sound like to you in terms of -- I mean, I just think that's the question. Like this, support this or criticize it and don't support it, I don't think anyone knows what happens next in Venezuela as of right now. How does the United States run Venezuela?

CROW: Well, you know, as a three time combat veteran, when I hear a five time draft Dodger pound his chest and talk about not being afraid to put boots in the ground, he's not talking about his kids. He's not talking about his wealthy billionaire donors and friends. He's talking about kids like me.

He's talking about middle class, working class kids in rural places around the country who are going to have to pick up rifles, jump in the tanks, jump into helicopters and actually do the tough stuff. And I learned long ago when I was an army ranger and a paratrooper that when somebody talks tough and pounds the war drums in Washington, DC, it's some young kid, somebody's brother, sister, son or daughter that has to go and do the tough stuff. That's exactly why Congress needs to step in and stop this insanity.

COLLINS: Congressman Jason Crow, have you heard anything from Democratic leaders, by the way, on this front tonight and on the defense from Rubio there that they did notify Congress?

CROW: I've been on the phone today with a number of leaders in the Democratic Congress. We've been talking about the response and what we need to do to try to put some guardrails in place to stop this and to refocus this administration on the American people, and the suffering that we see in our communities. Again, the lack of health care, the lack of affordable housing, those are the things that we need this administration to focus on. We are fighting hard to get them to realign.

COLLINS: Congressman Jason Crow, thank you for joining us tonight.

CROW: Thank you.

COLLINS: And we have much more on this breaking news as Maduro is now being held at this detention center here in Brooklyn after he was captured by the United States in a shocking and audacious, and successful, overnight raid in Venezuela. Stay with CNN's live coverage for all the updates.

[21:29:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: For the first time in more than a dozen years, Nicolas Maduro is not running Venezuela. Instead, he is now behind bars here in New York City. And as for who is in charge of Caracas, President Trump says his administration is going to run the country for the foreseeable future. No benchmarks, though, or timeline of what that could look like or when they decide to leave.

Members of the now former Maduro regime have been saying otherwise. Leaders from nations across the globe, allies and adversaries of the United States alike, have been watching this very closely for understandable reasons. I'm joined tonight by CNN global affairs analyst Kim Dozier, CNN national security analyst Alex Plitsas, as well as our CNN political and global affairs analyst Barak Ravid.

And, Kim, I do think that is a real question tonight in terms of the sudden departure of the country's strongman and what this means in this moment if you're in Venezuela tonight. KIM DOZIER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: There's hope and there's fear.

When you look at the social media, what people have been posting, if you're from the leftist persuasion, you hate this happened. And if you're from one of the right wing governments or favor the right wing parties in Latin America, this is good news. Or if you're a Venezuelan who's been driven out of the country, the problem is, yes, Maduro is gone, but the machine that he built is still in place.

It's in disarray, but there's no sign that the vice president or any of the military are giving up their hold on power. And therefore, US companies aren't going to go in there and invest. And the people who would like to go out and celebrate Maduro's departure are having to keep quiet and stay indoors for fear of being attacked by Maduro loyalists.

COLLINS: And, Barak Ravid, as were listening to President Trump earlier and he said, you know, when he was asked specifically who was going to be running Venezuela, he pointed to the people who were standing behind him. Secretary Hegseth, Secretary Rubio, the Joint Chiefs chairman was there as well. What have you heard in the hours since then of whether or not there is a genuine plan in place for what this looks like now that Maduro is in US custody?

[21:35:02]

BARAK RAVID, CNN POLITICAL AND GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: So, Kaitlan, I haven't heard of a plan. What I heard is that there are going to be -- there's going to be more diplomatic engagement with the vice president of Venezuela, with other Venezuelan officials to try and convince them to do what the US wants. At the moment, it seems that they're not going to do that.

I mean, we heard President Trump saying that Secretary Rubio spoke to the vice president of Venezuela and that she told him that she's willing to do whatever the US Needs or wants in order to make Venezuela great again. That's what President Trump said. But then we heard the vice president of Venezuela saying that Venezuela will not be a US colony.

So it seems that there's quite a big gap. And I think that on the one hand we saw a very sophisticated, well-planned, well-executed military operation. What we still don't see is a diplomatic plan for the way forward in Venezuela.

COLLINS: Well -- and, Alex Plitsas, on that. I mean, obviously that is the question going forward and not just in terms of a diplomatic plan, but also if there are US military forces on the ground, what that looks like for them. The President talked about them securing the oil. And as he mentioned, you know, as Jason Crowe was saying, he talked about oil a lot during that press conference today.

ALEX PLITSAS, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: He did. I think the, you know, the amount of forces that would be required, all of that is contingent upon an end state that was not really clearly articulated today. You know, it seemed that they had been in conversations with some Venezuelan officials because if you look at the force footprint, about a third of the deployed US Navy was off the coast of Venezuela. Fighters, bombers, and only a Marine expeditionary unit of about 2,000 Marines, that's not a sufficient number of troops to take a country.

So it said that they had to have some level of cooperation the country or that they at least thought it was going to simply fall into order after Maduro left, which based on the vice president's statements today, the Venezuelan vice president, doesn't seem to be the case. So until there's some stability in terms of what the picture looks like afterwards, predicting how many troops would be there is virtually impossible.

COLLINS: Well, and there's Cuban forces on the ground. There are these paramilitary forces that are there. I mean, I think there's real questions in terms of does this plunge the country into chaos? I mean, what is it? We just -- we don't really know at this hour right now.

PLITSAS: No, I think that's a great point. I mean, the President made a couple of statements that I think were telling so. There was a question about whether or not there was a second round of planned strikes, which I was told in speaking to CIA and Department of Defense officials today was in fact the case.

The President made a determination that was not going to be required. They were going to try to initiate a peaceful transition of power, give them an opportunity to do so. And then if not, additional military action may be required, as he said, if the government doesn't cooperate. So he was asked if the opposition leader would, you know, be welcome in taking over. He said, well, she doesn't really have the in the country, even though she's legitimately elected president country due to the voter fraud that took place when Maduro seized power.

So until that kind of gets worked out again, you've got -- you said the Cubans, the Venezuelan military is still there and they're still being defiant in the face of an overwhelming US naval armada that we haven't seen in this area of the world in decades.

COLLINS: Yes. Well -- and, Kim, Alex mentions the build up in the Caribbean. Trump was saying no one should be surprised by what happened because of that. But I do think what has shifted is the justification of why they are there. I mean, we've heard in the last few months it's about drug trafficking.

The President said it's because they're sending bad people from Venezuela to the United States. Today he mentioned oil repeatedly and was talking about, you know, pressuring US oil companies to go back in and, you know, basically restart what has been nonexistent for most of them for a while. What does it say to you in terms of the justification for why this happened and why now?

DOZIER: Well, I can tell you that the world is watching this. And the man on the street, whether they're India or somewhere in Africa or across Latin America, they're seeing the US again saying they're going to seize power in a country and take the oil. It is a refrain that I heard in the Middle East over and over right after the US invasion of Iraq. And it created a lot of anti American sentiment globally and also friction for US policies. And I think the Trump administration is going to be facing those kind of headwinds in the sort of fight for global influence.

But one thing I want to say about what may be happening with this transition to power, a mistake that the US Administration made in Iraq, or what was later concluded to be a mistake, was that they tried to build a whole new government when one of the plans that got discarded was take out Saddam Hussein and leave the government system as imperfect and horrible as it was in place. Perhaps that is what the Trump administration is trying to do with the current government in Venezuela.

The military and the administration Maduro built have a chokehold on the country. And perhaps the Trump administration has decided let's try to co-opt them instead of bringing in Maria Machado's party, which would possibly create civil war conditions on the ground.

[21:40:14]

COLLINS: Yes. But, Barak Ravid, if that's the case, what the president kept saying today was we don't basically want this to have been for nothing, which is why he was talking about the US having a role in this. I mean, I wonder if you're hearing from officials who are worried that this could spiral out of control.

RAVID: I think the biggest question is, how is the US going to run Venezuela and, especially, that it is not in control of Venezuela? The US Took out the president of Venezuela, took out his wife, but everything else is there. And the US Is not in control of Venezuela. Therefore, at the moment, at least, it cannot run it.

So I think it's just very confusing for a lot of people inside the administration and around the world about how exactly -- let's say the US does want to take over Venezuela, how exactly is it going to do it?

COLLINS: That is the question of the night. Barak Ravid, Alex Plitsas, Kim Dozier, great to have all of your expertise here joining us tonight.

And after this, I should note President Trump is saying, given the US is going to run Venezuela, Nicolas Maduro is in custody here in the United States, as we noted, still a lot of questions about that. This is something Trump has long sought, though, I should note. I'm going to speak with his former national security adviser, Ambassador John Bolton, about what he thinks this means not just for the administration, but also Western Hemisphere right after this.

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[21:45:35]

COLLINS: During his first term in office, President Trump grumbled about how Venezuela had stolen United States oil and land when its government took control of the country's petroleum industry in 1976. Former Trump National Security Adviser John Bolton wrote about the president's fixation on Venezuela during that first administration in his book "The Room Where It Happened: A White House Memoir." And Ambassador John Bolton joins me now.

And thank you, sir, for being here. I think one question when it comes to -- we're reflecting on this tonight, a lot of Americans might be saying, why did this happen? What would you tell them?

JOHN BOLTON, FORMER TRUMP NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Well, I think this does go back to the first term. Trump was very interested in the Venezuelan oil. He didn't really understand the situation. He said to me at one point in 2018, you know, Venezuela used to be part of the United States.

But this idea that removing the Maduro regime was something were able to get him interested in, we couldn't keep him focused on it. I think Marco Rubio's had a lot more success in the second term, and I think that's what led to what happened last night, the very, very successful military operation that extracted Maduro and his wife from Venezuela. I think everything else, though, other than the military planning and preparation is being done on an ad hoc basis, not well thought out.

And it shows clearly, as clearly as anything I can imagine. Trump does not have a philosophy. He does not have a national security strategy. He doesn't do policy the way we understand that. This is what we're proposing.

What he's doing in Venezuela, completely different from what he said during the 2024 campaign about ending endless wars. It's all because in the moment, at this time, the he sees the possibility for success, which is, to my mind, very much up in the air.

COLLINS: But you're saying that this didn't happen, forcing Maduro from power, using a military operation, all this didn't happen during the first term because you said the President was too distracted from the issue?

BOLTON: Well, I don't think we could get him to focus on it. And I don't think the opposition in Venezuela at that time really wanted military force. They thought that with economic pressure, they could split the Maduro regime. I don't think we applied sufficient economic pressure. There were a lot of other things we could have done, particularly considering military force that didn't happen.

I think this time Trump was persuaded, obviously, to engage in it because of Rubio's persistence and because of the political benefits I think they could see in Florida and elsewhere. I'm delighted Maduro has been extracted, but I think what you didn't get from that press conference today is that, he may be gone, but the regime is still there. And the notion of how you're going to change that is very much up in the air.

And what I have to say, the most stunning part about the press conference was probably saying the US was going to run the country. But the second most stunning was the assault on Mrs. Machado, the leader of the democratic forces, the natural alternative government that Trump just dismissed.

COLLINS: Yes. Trump said he didn't think she had the respect or support of the country to be able to lead it. They're instead relying on the vice president there. So you support this extraction and capture of Maduro, but you don't support the notion from the president that the United States is somehow going to run Venezuela?

BOLTON: Well, I don't mind doing it temporarily in the sense that I think on any day after scenario, there's got to be a lot of outside help. When were looking at this in 2018 and 2019, the administration did do a lot of preparation for the day after, and there would have been a need for a lot of economic advice and assistance. But in the Venezuelan opposition, there is a capacity to govern.

And why the Trump administration would think that they're going to be any better at negotiating with what's left of the Maduro regime than anybody else has ever been, to convince them to give up power is beyond me. What we should be doing, other than getting ready for military force, is working with the opposition to fragment the remainder of the regime.

[21:50:03]

COLLINS: The President said earlier, he kept referencing the Monroe Doctrine, and at one point he said that maybe now it should be called, or maybe now it will be called the Donroe Doctrine, was, I believe, his quote exactly. You talked about the President's vision or goal here, I mean, is it clear to you what that is? Because we've heard drug trafficking, we've heard, I mean, we've heard a lot of different justifications for what's playing out right now.

BOLTON: No, it's whatever suits him at the time. And this idea of a doctrine, he doesn't doctrines. Calling it the Donroe Doctrine is like calling it the Trump and Kennedy Center. It's as a branding exercise.

The real strategic issue here is the threat posed to Western Hemisphere stability and therefore the United States in Venezuela by the presence and active role of Russia, Cuba, China and Iran. That's the threat we face. That's the strategic issue. That's what justified overthrowing Maduro in 2019. It's what justifies overthrowing him today.

That's just not on Trump's radar screen. But it is something that I think these -- the capitals involved are very much watching. The Chinese were in Venezuela right before Maduro was snatched. China currently buys, I think, about 80 percent of Venezuela's oil. They're very interested in what happens to it. And the others have their interest as well. So that's what -- those are factors that remain in play here that Trump didn't even address today.

COLLINS: Yes, a lot of questions going forward. Ambassador John Bolton, thank you for joining me tonight on this breaking news. And we'll have much more of our coverage right after a quick break. Stay tuned.

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COLLINS: In Florida, there were cheering crowds that filled the streets in the city of Doral, one of the biggest Venezuelan communities here in the United States, as word got out that Nicolas Maduro had been captured by US forces. CNN's senior national correspondent David Culver was there with those crowds.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVID CULVER, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Massive crowds building up throughout the morning and into the day in what folks affectionately refer to as Doralzuela, Doral, outside of Miami. This is a place where you have a lot of Venezuelans.

[21:55:07]

And gathering in this spot, you can certainly see that just by all the flags that folks are carrying wearing around them. They have hats on. They have US and Venezuelan flags. They were chanting just a short time ago "libertad," liberty.

And it's not just Venezuelans who are out here. We've seen Cubans, Nicaraguans, others hoping that perhaps what has happened today in Venezuela could happen in other countries. But you have a flood of emotion.

Let me take you through the crowd here. (Inaudible) we can try to work through and get a sense of just how many folks have gathered and how many more are still coming. I mean, they have blocked off several different streets in this area and folks are just making their way in. You can see Maria Corina, this is the individual who many believe should be the ruler of Venezuela.

And obviously, folks are all smiles, all celebration horns are honking. There's a lot of noise, a lot of joyfulness and cheers. You can hear it. You can hear them.

(FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

She said, this is the moment that the whole world has been waiting for and all of Venezuelans have been waiting for. And so, clearly a lot of joy. And in this moment, what do you think is next? What's going to happen after this?

(FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

She says, they have to have patience in this moment. They're waiting for official word from, as she sees it, the rightful rulers, Maria Corina, and then Edmundo Gonzalez as well, who would be the President, OK.

So you have there somebody who's a coordinator for Maria Corina, who's the Nobel Peace Prize winner, who's part of the group along with Edmundo Gonzalez, who folks believe should be the rulers of Venezuela. And then you have crowds of all different ages who are gathering here.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS: David Culver, thank you with that check in from Doral. And thank you all so much for joining us this evening on this remarkable breaking news. I'm Kaitlan Collins. I'll see you Monday on THE SOURCE starting at 9:00 PM Eastern.

My colleague Erica Hill picks up our special live coverage after a quick break. Stay tuned.

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