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Trump Threatens Venezuela's Acting President In A New Interview; Maduro In New York After Capture By U.S.; Maduro Capture Leaves Questions About Venezuela's Future; Colombian Troops Now Along Border With Venezuela; Global Reaction To Maduro's Stunning Capture; Interview With Representative Kevin Kiley (R-CA). Aired 6-7p ET

Aired January 04, 2026 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:29]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.

JESSICA DEAN, CNN ANCHOR: You're in the CNN NEWSROOM. Hi, everyone. I'm Jessica Dean here in New York.

And we begin this hour with the latest on the capture of Nicolas Maduro. The Southern District of New York says the ousted Venezuelan leader's initial court appearance is set for tomorrow. He's currently being held at a federal detention center here in New York.

Maduro and his wife, of course, taken by U.S. forces during a major military operation inside the Latin American country early Saturday morning. And when touting the raid's success, President Donald Trump told reporters the United States would run Venezuela in the interim. Secretary of State Marco Rubio looked to clarify that in an interview earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KRISTEN WELKER, NBC NEWS ANCHOR: President Trump said, we're going to run the country. So is it you? Is it Secretary Hegseth? Who are those people who will be running the country specifically?

MARCO RUBIO, SECRETARY OF STATE: Well, it's not running the -- in policy, the policy with regards to this. We want Venezuela to move in a certain direction because not only do we think it's good for the people of Venezuela, it's in our national interest.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: CNN senior White House reporter Kevin Liptak is joining us now from West Palm Beach.

And Kevin, the president seems to be upping that pressure on Venezuela's acting president. What is he saying today?

KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. And this is kind of a striking back and forth between the Trump administration and Delcy Rodriguez, the former vice president of Venezuela, who President Trump just yesterday identified as the likely new leader and as someone who, in his words, would make Venezuela great again. She, after that, went on to really decry the raid that ousted Maduro, claimed that Maduro was still the leader there, and said that the U.S. was acting unlawfully. So it does set up this dissonance.

And what the president said today in an interview with the "Atlantic" magazine was issuing a threat. He says if she doesn't do what's right, she is going to pay a very big price, probably bigger than Maduro. So really kind of upping the pressure on Rodriguez to essentially accede to what the U.S. wants to do here, and that at the end of the day does appear to be what the president means by the U.S. running Venezuela.

We are getting sort of a better picture of what the president's intentions in all of this are, including from Marco Rubio, who is out on the Sunday shows today. This is not, you know, a U.S. occupation of Venezuela akin to what we saw in Iraq. This is really more of a coercion campaign. The U.S. really relying on the leverage it thinks it has on the remnants of the Maduro regime to essentially do what the United States tells them to do.

And the leverage includes, of course, that massive military buildup which remains in place in the Caribbean Sea, but also the oil blockade that the president has ordered, insisting that oil tankers not be able to go in and out of Venezuela. So that seems to be where all of this is heading today -- Jessica.

DEAN: Yes. And the president, Kevin, also saying that there was a possibility -- left open the possibility that the U.S. could put boots on the ground in Venezuela. What more have we heard about that in the last 24 hours since he left that door open?

LIPTAK: Yes. And that was sort of one of the most striking developments in that press conference yesterday. You know, I asked him, does he envision a prolonged U.S. Military presence in Venezuela? And he pivoted immediately to talking about the country's oil reserves, and that, I think, seems to be where that is headed as well. You know, the president has long had this preoccupation with Venezuela's oil, you know, the world's largest proven oil reserves.

And he seems to be suggesting that if the U.S. Military goes back into that country, it would be to ensure that the U.S. interests are protected and that U.S. oil companies gain access to that infrastructure. Of course, the president has also said that there could be a second, potentially larger strike on Venezuela if the country's leaders don't accede to U.S. demands. So still I think somewhat vague about what the role of the U.S. Military will be going forward.

DEAN: Yes, more to come on that.

Kevin Liptak for us live in Florida. Thank you so much for that.

Meantime, the ousted Venezuelan president is currently being held at the Metropolitan Detention Center in Brooklyn. And when he appears in court tomorrow, it will be in front of United States District Judge Alvin K. Hellerstein in Manhattan.

[18:05:02]

CNN chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst John Miller is joining us now.

And, John, getting Maduro into that detention center was tightly secured. We were talking with you as they were moving him around the city of New York yesterday. What can we expect to see tomorrow?

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: We can expect to see more of the same. Every time they move President Maduro or former President Maduro you're going to see a secure package as they refer to it, a motorcade with armored vehicles and counter- assault teams and escorts by highway patrol because of the high threat nature of the case.

And when they had the El Chapo case, you saw that move happen every day from Manhattan, where he was held in jail, to Brooklyn, where the courthouse is. In this case, because that jail was closed as a result of the Epstein suicide and some lapses there, you're going to see the opposite here, which is now the jails in Brooklyn and the courthouses in Manhattan. So you're going to see that secure package move every time he has to go to court and when it goes to trial you'll see that every day.

DEAN: That'll be something. Does he have an attorney at this point? Do we know who it will be?

MILLER: So Nicky Brown, one of our producers, just logged on to and off of the PACER system, which is the federal court record system that's accessible online. So far no notice of appearance. So if he has an attorney, that attorney has not filed that notice.

Now, that may happen tomorrow or, Jessica, it is entirely possible that the man who was the day before yesterday the leader of a 30 million person country may end up having a public defender, a federal defender appointed by the court until who his lawyer is, who is paying for that lawyer and how is sorted.

DEAN: That's remarkable. Do we have a timeline for how long this process might take, when we might see a trial?

MILLER: Well, this case has been going on. The investigation, you know, dates back to 25 years. It's been -- the investigation itself has been going on years. But his first appearance before the U.S. justice system will be tomorrow in front of Judge Hellerstein. Judge Hellerstein is a very experienced jurist. He's 92 years old. He's been with parts of this case, other parts of it with other defendants for a number of years himself.

But generally the time between that initial appearance and when a trial is in a regular case is a year. This is an immensely complex case with a lot of discovery and a lot of witnesses. So it could be even more so.

So, in short, Jessica, you and I and the rest of us are going to be living with this story in some version for some time. DEAN: For a while. All right. John Miller, great to see you. Thanks so

much for that. We appreciate it.

Tonight, former NATO officials warning U.S. efforts to claim oil from Venezuela could lead to dangerous consequences. We're going to talk to the former NATO Supreme Allied commander about what to expect in that realm, when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:12:17]

DEAN: Secretary of State Marco Rubio says the U.S. will retain leverage over Venezuela. Rubio telling NBC News this morning he wants to see a democratic transition there, but would not give a timeline.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUBIO: But unfortunately, the vast majority of the opposition is no longer present inside of Venezuela. We have short-term things that have to be addressed right away. We all wish to see a bright future for Venezuela, a transition to democracy. All of these things are great and we all want to see that. I've worked on that for 15 years on a personal level, both in the Senate and now as National Security adviser and secretary of State.

These are things I still care about. We still care about. But what we're talking about is what happens over the next two, three weeks, two, three months, and how that ties to the national interest of the United States. And so we expect to see more compliance and cooperation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: Joining us now, CNN's senior military analyst, Admiral James Stavridis, who is formerly the NATO Supreme Allied commander. He's also a partner of the Carlyle Group, an investment firm.

Good to see you on this Sunday. There are still a lot of questions about what President Trump meant when he said the U.S. will be running Venezuela. We saw there Rubio trying to clarify this morning. What do you think it means?

ADM. JAMES STAVRIDIS, CNN SENIOR MILITARY ANALYST: I think Marco Rubio did the best with a bad hand of cards today. But what he clarified, Jessica, was, we're not actually running the country, meaning we're not going to decide when the traffic lights come on and off and what the central bank is going to do. But we're going to, quote, "run the policy."

What I think he means is put pressure on the current regime, which is a remnant of the Maduro regime, to kind of do the right thing, whether they're willing to do that or not is going to be where this entire exercise turns.

Final thought here, we talk a lot about boots on the ground. That's important. Don't forget, we've got 15,000 boots at sea on aircraft carriers, big amphibious ships. We have a lot of influence and a lot of capability.

I think that we're going to put pressure on the current Maduro remnant to get them to move to the right place, and perhaps over time. What I heard Secretary of State Marco Rubio talk about, perhaps over time we can get to that democratic opposition. I certainly hope so. We need to do that.

DEAN: Did that alarm you when the president said that? And now we've had about over 24 hours to kind of think about it and hear more from Rubio, et cetera.

[18:15:00]

STAVRIDIS: Absolutely alarmed me and it alarmed anybody who fought in the forever wars. As you know, I spent a great deal of time commanding our entire mission in Afghanistan, which was all about trying to take a very unruly, difficult place and bend it toward Western norms. That's hard to do. And so when President Trump said yesterday, hey, we grabbed Nicolas Maduro, we brought him back, I was OK with that. He's a felon from American justice. I understand that.

He sends drugs to America. I get that. Then he hit the part about we're going to run Venezuela. That worried me a lot. I think it worried a lot of Americans. Now we're trying to kind of walk that back, take a coercive response, which says to the current Maduro remnants, this is led by former vice president of Venezuela, Rodriguez, and tell her, hey, wake up. Recognize the reality here and start bending toward Western agreements. If they can do that, if Rubio can do that, I think that's a reasonable outcome here.

Final thought, this could go sideways entirely. This is a country of 30 million people. It's huge, twice the size of California. It is -- got a lot of different crosscurrents going on. I'm very worried.

DEAN: And the president also mentioned what he called the "Donroe doctrine," riffing off the Monroe Doctrine. I'm curious if you think we're seeing the beginning of a major shift in foreign policy in our hemisphere.

STAVRIDIS: Clearly this administration has seized with the idea of America first, not meaning the United States of America, but meaning the Americas. If we stop and think about it from Canada to the bottom of Argentina, those are all the Americas, and thus the Trump administration wants to put a lot of emphasis here.

I can understand that impulse, particularly as a former commander of U.S. Southern Command. Here's the problem, Jessica. When you pool these resources and pull them toward this hemisphere, you are giving up influence and engagement against China in the Indo-Pacific, against Russia in the Black Sea, and the Baltic Sea. It's a zero sum game for U.S. Military. And my own view is we need to balance our needs here in this hemisphere, which are important, but also against the bigger strategic issues facing China, pushing back on Vladimir Putin that face us in this 21st century. DEAN: And how much of this do you think does relate back to those

countries, some of those countries you just named, China, Russia, Iran? Obviously, the charges against Maduro all -- you know, hinge on these drug charges and go out from there. But there's also the oil piece of this. And there are those other countries that had tried to really put a foothold and some would argue had put a foothold in Venezuela.

STAVRIDIS: Again, having spent years as commander of Southern Command, all U.S. Military operations south of the United States, I watch with great concern the way China continued to intrude in this hemisphere, the way Russia continues to support a rotten regime in Havana. So for the U.S. to take an aggressive stance against those countries here in our homeland, if you will, which in my view stretches from the high north, the Arctic, all the way to Tierra del Fuego in part of Argentina, makes sense.

On the other hand, final thought, you've got to face China not just here in the Americas, but in the Pacific. You have to face Russia on the plains of Ukraine. If you don't, we are going to divide the world into these spheres of influence. That would be ultimately to our detriment.

DEAN: All right. Admiral James Stavridis, good to have you. Thanks so much.

STAVRIDIS: Thanks, Jess. Bye-bye.

DEAN: Bye.

Supporters of the captured Venezuelan leader are marching in protest tonight against the U.S. Military. We're going to go live to Caracas for reaction.

Stay with us. You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:24:22]

DEAN: Maduro's capture has left Venezuela in economic and political freefall. President Trump says the U.S. will be involved in the country's next step. But Venezuela's vice president and acting leader Delcy Rodriguez is rejecting any U.S. involvement, instead demanding Maduro and his wife's immediate release. Plus, questions remain about who could possibly control, rebuild the country's gutted oil infrastructure.

Journalist Mary Triny Mena is live in Caracas and has been speaking with locals.

And Mary, what are you hearing from people today?

MARY TRINY MENA, JOURNALIST: Jessica, the most common word that I received from Venezuelans where they are in shock. This is -- we need to put this in context. [18:25:02]

This is a man that they used to watch on television on a daily basis bringing long speeches and dancing, and now he's no longer the president. He's a man in custody. So for many Venezuelans, seeing Maduro out of the country and now with a new government in place, it is hard for them to believe that it's going to be a peaceful transition. Some fear that more new events will come in the coming hours inside of Venezuela.

The Supreme Court of Venezuela, which is government controlled, designated Delcy Rodrguez, the vice president, as the new interim president of Venezuela. But messages from the government is that they will remain in power.

DEAN: And, Mary, what are Venezuelans telling you about the U.S. potentially being involved in their government's future?

MENA: Well, when you ask them about that, despite of what Donald Trump said that they will run the country, when you ask government supporters that demonstrated today, for example, they say that's not a possibility. The message from the loyals of Maduro that is still are in charge of the country is that they will not surrender. And some other people that are from the opposition, they prefer not to answer that question because they say they fear for reprisals.

DEAN: All right. Mary Triny Mena there in Caracas for us. Thank you so much for your reporting, Mary. We appreciate it.

I want to go now to CNN's David Culver, who is at a border town in the nation of Colombia for more on the reaction there -- David.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVID CULVER, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: A heavy reinforced military presence on the Colombian side of the Colombia-Venezuela border. And you can see three armored vehicles here, a fourth over there, but it's not just military that has set up here on this side of the border, but also we're told humanitarian aid in case anything happens with regards to a rush of individuals coming here into Colombia.

Now, let me set the stage a bit for you. This is the border crossing where we are, Cucuta, Colombia. On the other side, you enter Venezuela. And you can see on a Sunday morning, traffic is moving rather calmly back and forth. This is pretty typical if you talk to locals. The only difference is the military presence and the press. And you've got many of individuals from media across Latin America who have set up here to get a sense of what could happen next.

Now, Cucuta is really an interesting town and that this is a pressure valve, if you will, a real indicator of what could come next. This is a place that really saw a lot of the surge of outward migration from Venezuela in the past decade plus. Here in Colombia, you have the largest diaspora of Venezuelans, some three million, according to some estimates. And of course, you had Venezuelans who passed through here to then continue up into Central America, through Mexico and into the U.S.

Many of them we've met along the way in recent years, and a lot of them referenced the instability, the uncertainty, the insecurity of living in Venezuela. So the folks here who have made their lives in Cucuta, for example, they were out in the streets late into the night. In fact, we touched down just before midnight and folks were still out celebrating. You had families draping themselves in flags. There were a lot of emotions. People seemingly very happy.

What's interesting is when you speak to those individuals, those who have been, say, 10 plus years out of Venezuela, say they have their lives here in Colombia. No matter what changes in Venezuela, they have no real desire to move back. But those who have been here less than that, and it seems to be a rough average of 10 years or so, say they do want to go home. They want to try to reestablish their lives.

So this could be a place where we see a few things. You could see folks who are fearing the chaos, fearing more instability, fearing more fracturing coming from Venezuela into Colombia. You could also see those who are fearing retaliation because perhaps they're aligned with Maduro. Then on this side you could see a reverse migration. Folks who want to go home, want to go back to Venezuela. And this is where many of them would return on that crossing.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DEAN: All right. David Culver for us there in Colombia. Thank you so much for that.

Eric Farnsworth joins us now. He's a senior associate at the Center for Strategic and International Studies. He's also a former State Department official covering Latin America.

Eric, thank you for being here with us on this Sunday. We appreciate it. We just heard from our colleague there, David Culver, who's obviously in the neighboring country of Colombia. How might this operation and what's -- and the fallout from it, what's going on in Venezuela affect other countries in the region?

ERIC FARNSWORTH, SENIOR ASSOCIATE, CENTER FOR STRATEGIC AND INTERNATIONAL STUDIES: It could affect it directly because Venezuela for a number of years has essentially been a collapsing country. One quarter of the entire population of 33 million, now eight million Venezuelans are outside the country, and that's happened long before yesterday's activities.

[18:30:08]

But the fear is that if the remaining Venezuelan people in the country don't have sustained hope that things are going to get better, and that it's not just Maduro, but actually other senior officials from his regime are going to leave and that their lives will get better, there is fear that indeed you could have an additional migration flow, and that would go directly into the neighboring countries like Colombia, like Brazil, and like countries in the Caribbean.

So this is directly implicating some of the neighbors. There are other issues, too, but that's, for the moment, that's the primary one.

DEAN: And Eric, how quickly does this all need to kind of shake out and stabilize?

FARNSWORTH: Yes, that's a really important question. I don't have a specific time frame, but I would say sooner rather than later. For example, both the president-elect Edmundo Gonzalez and Nobel Peace Prize winner Maria Corina Machado are outside of Venezuela. One would assume that they're going to return to Venezuela at some point relatively soon. That would certainly be a boost of energy and support for the opposition and for the government-elect.

But the longer it appears as if Delcy Rodrguez is going to remain as the de facto leader of the country, and some of the officials around her, like Diosdado Cabello and the head of the military, Padrino Lopez some of those people who have bounties, $25 million bounties remaining on their heads, the Venezuelan people, I think, are going to begin to question, well, what is the ultimate outcome of this?

So I think even if there isn't a direct change in the next, you know, couple of days or even, you know, weeks, I don't know, but there is going to have to be some really intensive signaling from the White House and from the State Department that fundamental change really is on the way. And it's not just about Maduro, but it's about his regime.

DEAN: The secretary of state, Marco Rubio, has said that Maduro's arrest and bringing him to the U.S. is not related to Venezuela's oil infrastructure. President Trump has said that he does want the U.S. oil industry to thrive in Venezuela again, and he's focused on that. How much of a role do you think oil played in all of this?

FARNSWORTH: Well, I can tell you how much oil is going to play in the future. I mean, Venezuela can't recover unless the oil industry recovers because that is literally the engine of growth and recovery for the country. And so whatever happens, there's going to have to be a lot of intensive attention to recapturing the energy sector, to revitalize it and to restore it. And I think that's absolutely legitimate.

Look, the bounty on Maduro's head, $50 million, the indictments for him of being a drug trafficker and allegations of crimes against humanity at the international court of justice, that has nothing to do with oil. But the idea that oil is an engine of recovery does mean that the sector has to be recovered, and it does have to be revitalized.

DEAN: You posted that many analysts are overlooking the strength of the Venezuelan people. You said, quote, "Give them hope and they will rebuild a broken nation." Explain that to us and what you think it will take to rebuild.

FARNSWORTH: It will require hope. Again, a real confidence that this time is different, that change is here. It's going to take a lot of effort. It's going to take a lot of money. But the Venezuelan people are entrepreneurial. They love their country. And there are any number of folks in the diaspora, folks who have left Venezuela, professional class, educated, entrepreneurs, who are itching to get back to the country. And if they're given a chance to get back and really help re- energize the economy, I really think they're going to have an opportunity to do that and they're going to succeed.

But we have to recognize the difficulty in doing that. We have to recognize that this is a long term issue. It's not going to happen tomorrow. And unless the situation stabilizes in terms of the investment climate, in terms of the authorities, in terms of who has the ability to sign in and enforce a contract, for example. And what does that mean? Until the infrastructure gets somehow rebuilt, you're going to have some caution about people wanting to return as well, and investors will probably be a little bit cautious as well.

So this is going to take time. But the Venezuelan people are entrepreneurial and they're absolutely committed to restoring the country if they're given the chance and if they're given the hope to be able to do so.

DEAN: How delicate would you say the situation is there right now of it tipping one way or the other, the way, you know, that it could go sideways or that it could go in the more positive route that, you know, that you're saying a lot of Venezuelans, of course, would hope for.

FARNSWORTH: I'm an optimist. I believe that certainly that is a real option and probably better than we've seen in any number of years. But it could absolutely go sideways and it could go sideways quickly. And I think what the key indicator here is really the security forces. Until there is a signal that Delcy Rodrguez is not going to be the long term leader of the country, and that the regime really is in its last days, I think you're going to have a number of commanders and folks who are involved in the security forces, not just the military, but the broader security forces as well, hedging their bets.

[18:35:18]

Who's going to throw in their lots with a group of folks if you don't know what their future is? So I think that has to clarify. And once it does, I think we're going to start seeing some of the military try to decide, well, where is my future best served and who should I best support. Until that decision is made, you're really going to have continued uncertainty and you're going to have some real challenges because, you know, you can't really institute a democracy, a vibrant democracy, without the support of the military and the security forces. So it's a really important piece that still has to play itself out.

DEAN: Yes. All right. Eric Farnsworth, thanks for your time. We appreciate it.

FARNSWORTH: Great to talk to you. Thanks, Jessica.

DEAN: Thanks.

Still ahead, the stunning capture of Maduro has shocked the world. We're going to talk more about the global reaction to what the U.S. has done. That's next

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:40:30]

DEAN: We are one day out now from what was a chaotic and unrelenting news day. From the first reports of explosions Saturday morning in Venezuela's capital city of Caracas to President Trump posting on social media, the U.S. Military was behind that operation, to the perp walk in New York of Venezuela's ousted president. The news media was scrambling to keep up as things developed throughout the day.

Let's examine how the media is covering this fast moving and consequential story. We'll bring in CNN chief media analyst Brian Stelter.

Brian, great to see you. I was reading your newsletter this morning that went through a lot of this. It was really fascinating to kind of take a beat and think about it all. What really sticks out to you over the last I guess we'll call it 36 hours at this point, but it's been quite remarkable.

BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA ANALYST: Yes, well, number one, thank goodness for the reporters who are on the ground in Venezuela right now.

DEAN: Yes.

STELTER: You know, Venezuela has a repressive regime. The government has been hostile to the press for decades, but a small number of reporters are able to work there, and they're so essential right now, including some of our colleagues who we have been seeing on CNN this weekend, both for alerting the world to the explosions on Saturday morning. But now to help us all hear what Venezuelans are thinking, what they're asking, what they're feeling.

It seems to me that questions are as important as answers right now. Answers are in short supply, but it's crucial to ask the right proper skeptical questions. And that's what we're seeing from the White House Press Corps yesterday at the news conference and all across television in the dialogues today. Is the U.S. at war with Venezuela? Do Venezuelans think the U.S. is at war? Is there a clear U.S. plan?

You know, we've seen media reports in the past that have described these U.S. war game scenarios about U.S. action in Venezuela and none of the war game scenarios ended well. All of them ended badly, suggesting the country would collapse into chaos. So what can be learned from those war game plans? You know, can Trump reshape Venezuela now, just with words or with actions? And what would those actions be?

He's just given another interview this time to the "New York Post," where he talks again about running the country. He says we need to run it well, run it with strength. He says he will be able to pick the new leader in the future. All of this rhetoric, you know, right now, it's words. Will it be translated to actions? And I think it seems to me, Jessica, these questions are ultimately in service of U.S. troops and in service of citizens.

And it's not lost on reporters and editors that some of these questions were not amplified well enough in the aftermath of 9/11. Very different time, very different place now. But those memories of regime change, 10, 15, 20 years ago are clearly on people's minds today.

DEAN: Yes. And you mentioned Trump talking to the "New York Post." I know he's been picking up the phone and just talking to reporters who are calling him. Obviously, he had that news conference yesterday.

STELTER: Yes. Yes.

DEAN: How is that different from what we normally see from presidents and also is unique to President Trump?

STELTER: Well, there's two elements about this. Number one, you and I spoke last fall about the Pentagon trying to reshape the press corps. Most major U.S. news outlets left the Pentagon and refused to follow along with restrictive new rules. Pete Hegseth made noise about reporters, you know, being a problem at the Pentagon and endangering national security. And he brought in MAGA media voices and commentators instead.

Well, this weekend it has been all about those old fashioned global news brands that have been breaking news and leading the way, not those Pentagon approved MAGA media figures who have not been advancing this story at all. It has been those old line outlets that have been leading the way, and that includes with covering what Trump is saying and arguing about this. He picked up the phone and talked to "The New York Times" in the middle of the night on Saturday.

He talked to the "Atlantic" earlier today, the "New York Post," and that press conference was widely attended by many news outlets. And even though many of Trump's answers were vague, it was the questions that really mattered because those reporters were speaking on behalf of both the American people, but also folks all around the world. And it's also notable the Trump administration is really trying to control the message by funneling information through the White House.

The Pentagon has mostly gone silent. The typical press people, the officials who would normally be engaging with the press, they're mostly referring questions to the Trump White House. And that's a change from past practices. It's something to keep an eye on in the days to come, as people are going to have more and more questions about the U.S. Military presence in and around Venezuela.

For example, the troops who were injured reportedly in this mission, what are their conditions? Those kinds of questions, information is being centralized and consolidated by Trump and the White House. And it seems in some ways he can do his press himself. He's picking up the phone, talking to reporters, saying again this afternoon that he plans to run Venezuela. And as you've been covering Jessica, that just raises a whole host of questions that people have.

[18:45:01] DEAN: Yes, people have a lot more questions around that. But it is certainly interesting to see that he does keep engaging with the press. We are hearing it directly from the president himself.

All right. Brian Stelter, always good to see you. Thank you so much.

STELTER: Right. Thanks.

DEAN: Lawmakers will return to Capitol Hill this week as questions mount over the capture of Nicolas Maduro. We're going to talk to one Republican congressman, Kevin Kiley. That's up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DEAN: Congress is set to return to Washington this week with a budget deadline quickly approaching and the Trump administration's actions in Venezuela over this weekend all looming. Lawmakers are going to be plenty busy.

California Republican Congressman Kevin Kiley is here with us now.

Congressman, thanks for your time tonight. We really appreciate it. I do want to start first with Venezuela.

[18:50:02]

There has been a lot of talk and frankly outrage from some of your Democratic colleagues and others on the Hill about the lack of consent from Congress, bringing Congress into this really at all before this operation took place. I'm curious what your thoughts are on that and also if you would support this legislation that would restore more power to Congress in these situations.

REP. KEVIN KILEY (R-CA): Yes, so I've read, you know, dozens and dozens of reactions from people here in the U.S. and across the world. And, you know, you notice they follow a similar formula for those who are critical of what happened. It always begins with Maduro was a really bad guy, but. So I'd like to focus first on what people are all agreeing on, what comes before the but which is that he is someone who has wreaked havoc on his own people, has caused immense harm to the United States and to the international order.

And so whatever you might think about the question you asked, there is a corresponding opportunity here to create a better future for the people of Venezuela, for our own citizens and for the world at large. I think that there is also broad agreement across party lines that from this point forward, Congress needs to be centrally involved in whatever role the United States has in ushering in a better future and a better political arrangement in Venezuela, and giving them, you know, the freedom and democracy and self-determination that they deserve.

As to the question of the strike itself and the lack of, you know, approval by Congress leading up to it, you know, I'm someone who always wants Congress to be informed as much as possible under traditional legal frameworks. That's when the president's powers are at their highest ebb. But for an operation like this, that was predicated on secrecy, there are circumstances where that just isn't possible, where it puts the mission at risk, where it puts our service members at risk.

DEAN: So it sounds like you were OK in this situation with how they handled it, that you don't think the Gang of Eight or a smaller group from Congress should have been notified previous.

KILEY: Well, since the primary justification was a legal one, that this is an individual who was under indictment for causing immense harm to American citizens, the Biden administration offered a $25 million reward for his arrest. And then beyond that, the president does have inherent authority as commander-in-chief for these sort of smaller scale operations, that there's plenty of precedent for in this region and in operations around the world, I think that, you know, there was justification for undertaking this, and there was a very compelling reason for not having, you know, prior congressional approval in a way that would have undermined the success of the operation.

DEAN: Yes. And so would you be in favor? Because, respectfully, I think a lot -- there are many people out there who don't think this was a small scale operation. Would you be in favor of legislation that would give more power back to Congress? Is that something you'd work on with Democrats?

KILEY: Well, yes. I do think Congress needs to be centrally involved going forward in terms of what comes next. So of course it would depend what the legislation looks like. But I think that's a sentiment that you'll find is widely shared across party lines that, you know, in whatever role the United States plays, in offering freedom and democracy and prosperity for the people of Venezuela who have suffered so much under Maduro and his predecessor, that's something that Congress needs to be centrally involved in.

And I've also said kind of more broadly, not just on issues related to foreign policy, but on all policy matters, that the House of Representatives in particular needs to get back in the driver's seat when it comes to, you know, tackling the challenges facing our country. The House wasn't even in session for two months. I was very critical of that decision by the House speaker. I actually went to D.C., this was during the shutdown, to try to, you know, advocate for bringing the House back and kind of having the House take more of a lead in policy.

So that's something that I am encouraging our leadership to do once we come back here this coming week.

DEAN: So in keeping with that theme, and you noted this, the president now saying that the U.S. will run Venezuela, Marco Rubio saying today that that has to do with the policy, but obviously having a heavy hand in what comes next in Venezuela. So what role should Congress be playing in that?

KILEY: Well, Congress should be centrally involved in the major decisions as far as the role that the United States undertakes and, you know, the sort of political arrangement that we endeavor to ultimately put in place. You know, in the short term, obviously, the imperative needs to be stability. You know, with the head of state no longer there. It's obviously a time when there are various risks that could emerge. And so I know these issues have been well thought through. I know there have been lines of communication with the now interim president. So in the very short term that needs to be the priority.

Of course, in the hopefully not very long term, but for, you know, the durable future, we need to, you know, see what we can do to usher in an arrangement built upon self-determination and democracy and freedom.

[18:55:09]

That's ultimately what will allow Venezuela as a country to prosper. It's in the interest of the United States. It's an interest of the Western Hemisphere and the entire international order.

DEAN: And it still remains to be seen if that means, if that will include the U.S. Military being deployed on the ground there in a long term manner. Is that something you would support?

KILEY: Well, as the secretary of state said today, you know, obviously we don't want that sort of thing. But you can never rule out options as far as what the commander-in-chief would do. The entire premise of peace through strength is that you retain the capacity to act in a way that will, you know, achieve your objectives. And -- but hopefully you don't ultimately have to use the bigger tools in your toolkit in order to do so.

So, you know, ideally, we can have a period here where there is stability followed by a transition to a democratic government. We know that Maduro stole the last election. This is recognized by the Trump administration, the Biden administration, the European Union, that he was not the legitimate leader of that country. And so this is an opportunity to restore legitimacy and to create a much better future for people in that country that have been just utterly impoverished under his disastrous narco terrorist regime.

DEAN: All right, Congressman Kiley, thank you for your time. We sure do appreciate it.

KILEY: Of course. Thanks for having me.

DEAN: We'll be right back.

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