Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

DOJ Says It May Appeal Order to Release Five-Year-Old Liam Ramos and His Father; Iran Ready to Meet with U.S. and Negotiate a Deal; Funding Fight Could Extend Partial Government Shutdown; Rafah Crossing Partially Reopens After Nearly Two Years; Kennedy Center to Close for Two Years for Renovations. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired February 01, 2026 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:01]

JESSICA DEAN, CNN HOST: Derek, thank you.

We're going to have a look at record-breaking snow in Charlotte, North Carolina. That's coming up in our next hour.

And a new hour of CNN NEWSROOM starts right now.

You are in the CNN NEWSROOM. Hi, everyone. I'm Jessica Dean here in New York.

And tonight, 5-year-old preschooler Liam Conejo Ramos and his father, Adrian, are back in Minneapolis after being released from a Texas detention center. Liam became the face of children caught up in the Trump administration's immigration crackdown when this image in particular showing a federal agent holding Liam by his Spider-man backpack while he wore his little hat, sparked widespread backlash.

He was taken by immigration officials along with his father when he was coming home from preschool. On Saturday, a judge issued a scathing opinion ordering Liam and his father's release. The judge writing that Liam's case originated in, quote, "the ill-conceived and incompetently implemented government pursuit of daily deportation quotas apparently even if it requires traumatizing children."

The Trump administration now saying it will appeal that decision.

CNN's Julia Vargas Jones is joining us now.

Julia, what more are you learning about all of this?

JULIA VARGAS JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the government now saying, Jessica, that they will appeal that decision basically based on the question of whether or not Liam's family had been following the necessary protocol to be in this country. We heard earlier today from Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche, who said that basically that is the crux of the question and repeating government opinion that we've heard in other cases of that if someone is violating the law, they should be held in detention.

And that is the basis for the government's appeal in this case. But I should add that we did speak after the detention of Liam and his father -- his father, Liam went along with him to the Dilley detention center in West Texas, an attorney for the family said that the family had come in to the United States in December of 2024 and immediately turned themselves in to border agents and requested asylum. The attorney said to CNN that they had been following every protocol, every established protocol, pursuing their claim, showing up for their court hearings, and didn't pose any safety or flight risk. And they should never have been detained in the first place.

But I will remind you, Jessica, that at the time of the detention, DHS characterized Liam's father as just simply an illegal alien, that's their wording, in that they had taken the boy with him in request, as requested by his father. And we're seeing now those pictures of Congressman Joaquin Castro now coming back to Minnesota with the boy and his father. He posted some more details about that journey on X.

He said, quote, "Yesterday, 5-year-old Liam and his dad Adrian were released from Dilley detention center. I picked them up last night and escorted them back to Minnesota this morning. Liam is now home with his hat and his backpack. Thank you to everyone who demanded freedom for Liam. We won't stop until all children and families are home."

And he included, Jessica, in those photos a picture of a handwritten note from the congressman to Liam saying, "Welcome home. I know the past two weeks have been very rough to say the least. No child should have to go through what you went through," and this went on to later quote Robert F. Kennedy, and talk about how he, even as a young boy, has now moved the world.

This is something that we have been seeing, Jessica, as we came, when we spoke to you yesterday from those protests here in Los Angeles. We've seen pictures of Liam, pictures of his hat, show up in signs across the nation really. And even in the decision that this judge ordering the release of Liam and his father that same very picture included in a legal document. I found this quite remarkable.

Not only that, in the language that the judge used, as you mentioned earlier, talking about the ill-conceived, incompetently implemented manner that the Border Patrol and ICE had been carrying out, in his opinion, these immigration enforcement actions. But I will clarify that what the judge seemed to argue in this decision and in his order is really that these removals, deportations should only happen in an orderly and humane way.

So despite his blistering criticism of the manner that these operations are being done, it does not seem that this judge was saying that this order should be forever. It is, at least for now, something that the family I'm sure and the community is quite happy about. But as we mentioned, the government is very much planning on appealing that -- Jessica.

[18:05:08]

DEAN: All right. Julia Vargas Jones with the latest. Thanks for that reporting. And joining us now is former acting director of U.S. Immigration and

Customs Enforcement under former President Barack Obama, John Sandweg. He's also the former acting general counsel at the Department of Homeland Security.

John, it's always good to have you on. Thank you so much for being here with us. I want to play a little clip from what we heard from Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche earlier today. Here's what part of what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TODD BLANCHE, U.S. DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL: The immigration law, the body of immigration law, is much different than our typical criminal process because of the administrative nature of what we do every day. And so to the extent that we need to appeal that judge's decision, I promise we will.

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC NEWS ANCHOR: To clarify, the lawyer for Liam Ramos and his father say they were following the legal process for asylum.

BLANCHE: I mean, I don't know what that means. There's a very meaningful dispute about whether they had properly applied for asylum.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: John, what's your reaction to how the administration handled this specific case and how they're responding now after that judge's ruling yesterday?

JOHN SANDWEG, FORMER ACTING DIRECTOR, U.S. IMMIGRATION AND CUSTOMS ENFORCEMENT: Yes. Jessica, I'm not surprised by the language regarding an appeal, but I think this case is really important to demonstrate to the public what's been going on out there, which is that since the administration put in place these quotas, we've seen -- the problem, it puts ICE under tremendous pressure to go after the low-hanging fruit.

And in this case, what a lot of times that means is people who have applied for asylum and just very quickly, the debate here is that President Biden created a program, as you know, called CBP One, whereby people who are in Mexico who wanted to cross the border unlawfully to make an asylum claim, instead can make an appointment, were allowed to cross legally, made their asylum claim, and have been waiting in the United States for their court date ever since.

We've seen the administration as part of this mass deportation surge targeting these people, whether they show up, you know, times when they show up in courthouses or in this case, when they're coming to their home. I don't think this is what people are thinking about when they hear about criminal aliens or illegal aliens. This is someone who is in deportation proceedings, who had a court date, and as his lawyers are arguing, was going through the proper process when suddenly he was arrested out of left field. But again, I think this case is just one of thousands that are happening across the country. DEAN: And do you think that's what's explaining what we heard from

Todd Blanche there? You heard George Stephanopoulos say, but the lawyer said they're doing this legally. And he said, I don't know, I don't know what that means. It's really as if the Trump administration does not see what that Biden policy that you just talked about that was put in place. It seems that those are very much at odds with each other, and they don't see that as legal at all, even though at the time, as you note, that was a legal program that people like this family were using.

SANDWEG: That's exactly right, Jessica. Now, it's possible that the dad is talking about something specific in their case. Maybe they missed a check in date. I haven't heard any allegations like that, but we know that the administration has been very consistent. They think everybody who was, what in the legal term, excuse me, Jessica, is paroled. Paroled into the United States by the Biden administration so they can make their asylum claim.

They've taken a position that those people are present unlawfully. Now to make it more complex. Jessica, early on in the administration, DHS sent a letter to every single person who received one of these paroles, said, we've canceled your parole. And their legal position is that at that moment now you are an undocumented immigrant. You no longer have any legal basis to be in the United States.

Of course, these people have court dates. They still have dates. You know, they're waiting for their day in court where they get to file, you know, argue to the judge why they're eligible for asylum. But consistently, the administration, especially since they canceled those paroles, have taken the position that these are illegal aliens and really no different than some, you know, anyone else in terms of how important it is for ICE to be arresting them, you know, as compared to, let's say, a criminal alien or something of that nature.

DEAN: Yes. According to the Marshall Project, using data from the Deportation Data Project, the number of children in ICE detention has risen six times under Trump. What does that tell you as someone who's been in that agency about the current strategy?

SANDWEG: You know, Jessica, look, I think part of the strategy here is self-deportation. I mean, I think we have to keep that in mind. From a law enforcement perspective, it makes no sense to waste your resources on cases like this, right? We hear people like Secretary Noem and Tom Homan talk about criminal aliens. And there are individuals in this country who are dangerous that we do need to get out of the country.

The problem is it's harder to find them. It's slower work. And so when you -- as you know, the administration put this quota on ICE, 3,000 arrests a day, puts the agency under tremendous pressure to rack up arrests and going after these families and these asylum seekers, they're not hard to find. We have their address. They're not, you know, they're not hiding. They're not, you know, you don't have to require a lot of detective work tracking them down.

But again, that data point tells me again what I think, you know, what we're seeing on the streets is operations that are designed to get as many people as possible. The easiest people to arrest, where public safety is not that driving factor, but rather how many arrests we can make. Right? The quantity is becoming more important than the quality of the apprehensions.

[18:10:04]

DEAN: And we're watching this now play out in a different forum, which is Capitol Hill and this funding fight, and Senate Democrats in their negotiations were asking for kind of three big buckets of things, which was body cameras for immigration agents, limit wearing masks during enforcement operations, end roving patrols and judicial warrants over administrative warrants.

What do you think about these demands that these Senate Democrats have?

SANDWEG: I think some of those demands, look, I think they'll make progress on what we're seeing. Right? But at the end of the day, I think even more important would be to demand some transparency in terms of who's being arrested. One thing the administration has not done that ICE historically has done is published data about who is being arrested and what is their criminality.

But we hear all this talk about we're going after the worst of the worst. And, Jessica, I think the public needs to have this information in order to make a decision about, all right, I see what I'm seeing in Minneapolis. I don't like it, but the administration says it's about getting really dangerous people off the streets. And if this is what it takes, OK, I can live with this. Right? But that requires the agency to be transparent and candid and honest about who is being arrested.

Are we seeing, you know, tens of thousands of arrests of kids like Liam and his father? Or are we seeing those hardened criminals? I can tell you from my experience, I suspect it's probably more of the cases of non-criminals because these nature of these operations are such you don't, you know, you utilize these tactics to get those people. They're not tactics you utilize to get the criminals off the street.

Certainly there's operations going on that are targeting criminals, but by and large, everything we've been seeing in Minneapolis is more canvas style operations, where it's more random in terms of who you apprehend. It's not about those more targeted approaches. Now, to be fair, Jessica, I've listened to Tom Homan all week and he says, we're going to get back to a prioritized approach, focus on those criminals first in a more targeted fashion.

If Tom is able to implement his vision, I think we'll see something different in Minneapolis and hopefully something like that across the country. But I think that in terms of Congress, I would also -- I would like to see them demand more transparency in terms of that data like the agency has historically done in terms of who's being arrested.

DEAN: So people can see for themselves who exactly is being taken into custody. John Sandweg, thank you. We really appreciate your time.

SANDWEG: My pleasure.

DEAN: Still ahead, Iran says it is confident it can achieve a deal with the U.S., but it has to be, in their words, fair and equitable. What does that mean to the U.S., where the talks stand now between the two nations. Plus, a standoff on Capitol Hill. A government shutdown deal in the Senate has hit roadblocks now in the House.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:17:19]

DEAN: New tonight, despite rising tensions, Iranian Foreign Minister Abbas Araghchi says he's confident his country can reach a deal with the United States on Tehran's nuclear weapons program. He says Iran has lost trust in the U.S., but that exchanging messages through friendly countries in the region has been fruitful. President Trump has increased the U.S. military presence in the region, but has not given any timeline on any possible strike when pressed by reporters.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I certainly can't tell you that, but we do have very big, powerful ships heading in that direction as you know. I can't tell you, you know.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: OK.

TRUMP: But I hope they negotiate something that's acceptable.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Saudi Arabia's defense minister reportedly said that if the U.S. backs off a strike, that will only embolden Tehran. What's your reaction to that, sir?

TRUMP: Well, some people think that and some people don't. If you could make a negotiated deal that would be satisfactory with no nuclear weapons, that they should do that. But I don't know that they will. But they are talking to us. Seriously talking to us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: CNN's Julia Benbrook joins us now from the White House with more.

Julia, what else is the White House saying?

JULIA BENBROOK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, President Donald Trump is expected to arrive back here at the White House shortly, but he was in Florida earlier today. And as he walked into an event, he was pressed on the growing tensions with Iran. He was specifically asked by this reporter about comments by Iran's supreme leader that an attack by the United States could lead to a regional war. Trump responded essentially saying that we could see if that statement

is true, but I want to play for you his exact remarks.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Why wouldn't he say that? Of course you're going to say that. But we have the biggest, most powerful ships in the world over there, very close. A couple of days and hopefully we'll make a deal. If we don't make a deal, then we'll find out whether or not he was right.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BENBROOK: According to sources familiar with the matter, Trump has been weighing the possibility of a major strike against Iran since preliminary discussions between Washington and Tehran over limiting the country's nuclear program and ballistic missile production failed to progress.

And recently, sources told CNN that there were some conditions in place for Iran talks to proceed. That included Iran seizing nuclear ambitions and ending all domestic enrichment of uranium, Iran giving up its ballistic missile program and ending all support for Iranian proxy groups in the region. In a post just a couple of days ago now, Trump said that Iran needed to come to the table and quickly.

[18:20:01]

And then in that sound that you played just a little while ago, Trump did say yesterday that Iran and the United States are talking seriously. He declined to say if he had made a decision on whether or not to strike Iran, but highlighted in those same comments that big, powerful ships were headed in that direction, and that he hopes there's ability to negotiate something acceptable -- Jessica.

DEAN: All right. Julia Benbrook, from the White House, thank you for that.

And we're joined now by CNN military analyst, retired U.S. Air Force Colonel Cedric Leighton.

Colonel Leighton, good to see you. Thanks for being here. This tension is building in this rhetoric that we're seeing between the U.S. and Iran. Also, what's happening on the ground, both the U.S. and Iran saying they will carry out these military exercises in the region in the coming days. What do you see in terms of a potential tipping point for military action? Or do you think -- you know, how do you see this playing out as we sit here today?

COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Yes. Jessica, good to be with you. I think there are two possibilities here. One of them is that we actually do achieve some kind of a negotiated settlement, or at least a delay in military action. But things could also go quite wrong. And with the deployment of U.S. forces, the USS Abraham Lincoln carrier strike group coming in to the Persian Gulf region, all of that, you know, leads to a buildup of forces there. Plus, the Iranians are also watching what's going on, and they're

building up their forces as well. So both things are possible. Right now I think we're kind of at a 50-50 standoff right here between which path the countries will take.

DEAN: And talking about these live fire exercises in terms of what Iran is planning, the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps is planning to carry out these live fire exercises in the Strait of Hormuz this week. Obviously, that is a critical waterway. Do you read anything into that selection of where and this week?

LEIGHTON: Yes, I think it's very important actually. So the Iranians are trying to send a signal, Jessica, saying that we are ready for you. We are going to deploy our forces as well. And the fact that they picked the Strait of Hormuz indicates that they are picking a choke point. About 20 percent of all the world's petroleum products, that includes not only oil, but also liquefied natural gas, flows through the Straits of Hormuz on a given day.

And so this is a critical point, you know, critical waterway through which we transit this critical commodity. And the U.S. Navy has always been there, you know, at least in the modern period, to defend the freedom of navigation throughout -- through the Strait of Hormuz. And that is going to be something that they're going to continue to do. So they did send a warning to the Iranians saying that they expect the Iranians to conduct a so-called professional exercise.

And, of course, the Iranians are looking at what the U.S. is doing with their exercise, which is also going on in the region as well.

DEAN: Yes. And the president has laid out a number of demands in moving forward with these talks. And it includes Iran essentially ending its nuclear ambitions, ending support for all of its proxy groups in the region. It does feel like we've kind of been at this point before in a way. Are these realistic demands? Do you think Iran is willing to do these things?

LEIGHTON: I think one thing that was interesting, earlier you had played Fred Pleitgen's report, his interview with the Iranian foreign minister, and in that interview, it was pretty clear that the Iranians are a bit flexible on the nuclear option. So what they're saying is we're OK with the limitation on nuclear weapons. What that really means is that they are going to do their best to have everything ready, just short of nuclear weapons, but they feel comfortable enough staying at the threshold but not crossing that threshold.

When it comes to the ballistic missile program, what they're going to do is they are going to want to keep that program alive. That's basically their lifeline from a weapons standpoint. And it's also their ability -- gives them their ability to not only fire missiles at U.S. bases in the region, but also hit the Gulf states as well as Israel. And they want to be able to continue to do that.

The proxy groups, they're going to continue even if they agree to limiting the proxy groups, they're going to continue to use proxy groups throughout the region as best they can, whether it's the Houthis in Yemen or the various groups in Iraq or in Syria. They're going to try to leverage them, but they're weakened now after the 12- day war this summer. The Iranians are weakened in many respects.

And so this is a turning point for them and a critical juncture for them to either pick, you know, one side of the negotiating side or military conflict. If they pick military conflict, that's going to end badly for them. But it could also end badly for a lot of other players, including the U.S.

[18:25:06]

DEAN: And let's not forget the more context around where we are right now, which is the protest we saw in Iran, the brutal crackdown by the government, resulting in thousands of protesters who were protesting that regime's death. How does that factor in to where we are right now?

LEIGHTON: So I think it's a critical aspect to things, you know, President Trump had mentioned in some of his social media postings that he was basically going to defend the protesters. That has proven a lot more difficult to do. In fact, the reality of the situation is it's going to be really hard without putting boots on the ground in hundreds of Iranian cities. It would be impossible to go ahead and prevent the Iranian Security Forces from cracking down on the various protesters.

It's also extremely difficult to conduct operations like that, and highly unlikely that the United States would do something of that type. So, you know, given those limited options, the president is basically forced to look at some other areas where he can strike certain targets within Iran and hopefully from his point of view affect some degree of regime change or at least some control of the Iranian regime, and then hope that the protesters will take root in other ways, and that those protests will then eventually bear fruit. But it's not going to be a short-term thing for either the United States or for the Iranian protesters.

DEAN: Yes, yes. And then if there was military action, what do you think is the most likely response from Iran militarily?

LEIGHTON: So if there were to be military action, one of the things that they would do is they would go after the U.S. bases that are along the other coast of the southern coastline of the Persian Gulf. That would be the first thing they would do. Another thing that they would also do would be some types of asymmetric warfare to include guerrilla operations by their proxy militia forces, whether those militia forces are based in Iraq or Lebanon or some other parts of the Middle East. You could see a lot of action there.

And then finally, cyber activity. That would be the other thing that I would expect the Iranians to do. They have a fairly robust cyber capability, and we could expect them to attack things like our critical infrastructure here in the United States, things like the water supply, the electric grid. Some of those areas we've found Iranian elements active in those, and I would expect them to continue to do something like that. DEAN: All right. Colonel Cedric Leighton, thanks so much. We

appreciate it.

LEIGHTON: You bet, Jessica.

DEAN: And the House is going to come back to D.C. There's pressure to end the partial government shutdown. A look at where the battle over funding stands. That's next.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:32:21]

DEAN: The partial federal government shutdown will likely continue until at least Tuesday. House Democrats meeting tonight to discuss their next steps. Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries told House Speaker Mike Johnson on Saturday not to rely on help from Democrats to reopen the government. House Democrats are demanding reforms to ICE following the shooting death of U.S. citizens Renee Good and Alex Pretti by federal agents last month.

And CNN's Camila DeChalus has more on this.

CAMILE DECHALUS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it looks like this government shutdown could last longer than anticipated, but we are hearing that it could last until this upcoming Tuesday. Now, at this point in time, we're hearing that House Democrats are not happy that the Senate passed the remaining spending bills that funded different parts of the government because it included a short-term funding bill for the Department of Homeland Security.

And that really is the issue among Democrats and Republicans. Democrats feel that that extension should not have been given, especially in light of the recent events in Minneapolis. And now you even have the House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries telling the House Speaker Mike Johnson that Democrats will not help Republicans pass the remaining spending bills in order to end this partial government shutdown.

And this is now creating a huge problem. Take a listen to what Jeffries and even Johnson had to say about what is going on right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KRISTEN WELKER, NBC NEWS ANCHOR: Are you confident that the government will reopen on Monday with Republican votes? Do you have enough Republican support?

REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): Well, let's say I'm confident that we'll do it at least by Tuesday. We have a logistical challenge of getting everyone in town. And because of the conversation I had with Hakeem Jeffries, I know that we've got to pass a rule and probably do this mostly on our own. I think that's very unfortunate.

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC NEWS ANCHOR: Will the House follow the Senate's lead and vote to keep the government open?

REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY): Well, it was a meaningful step in the right direction. Certainly the separation of the five bipartisan bills, which, in our view, promote the health, the safety and the economic well-being of the American people need to move forward. And we'll meet later on this afternoon as a caucus to discuss what we believe is the best path.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DECHALUS: Now, we're also hearing that House Democrats are going to be talking amongst each other just in the upcoming hours, just really talking about their game plan and how to move forward. But to be clear, this really puts the House Speaker Mike Johnson in a tough position because he was hoping to fast track and move these bills forward in order to end the shutdown. But without Democratic support, he's really going to have to heavily rely on the House Republican lawmakers on the House side to really move these bills forward.

But even their support is not guaranteed. We're hearing from several conservative Republicans that they are unhappy about a lot of the provisions included in the spending packages. And so you really see that this is going to present just another challenge for the House speaker and his efforts to try to reopen the government.

[18:35:01]

And really, the big picture here is that the longer that this government shutdown lasts, the more disruptions and the more delays we are going to see and how this is going to affect everyone in America just because of what is happening, how this government shutdown is going to continue.

DEAN: All right, Camila. Thanks for that.

And still ahead, after nearly two years, the Rafah Crossing will partially reopen, giving Palestinians a chance to cross.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:40:06]

DEAN: Today, the Rafah Crossing between Gaza and Egypt partially reopened for the first time in nearly two years. Some vehicles allowed to cross and a limited number of Palestinians now able to leave the war ravaged enclave.

Today's activity is part of the first phase of the U.S. brokered ceasefire plan, and CNN's Jerusalem bureau chief Oren Liebermann explains what's happening at the border crossing.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN JERUSALEM BUREAU CHIEF: Israeli and Palestinian officials say it is a trial phase on Sunday for the Rafah Border Crossing, and that pedestrian traffic won't be allowed to start just yet. Israel's Coordinator of Government Activities in the Territories, or COGAT for short, says the European Union, Egypt and other representatives are at the Rafah Border Crossing working through what that limited opening will look like. They say after this trial phase, pedestrians will begin to pass through that crossing, but there is no specific date, at least from the Israelis on when it will open.

Meanwhile, Ali Shaath, who is the head of the Palestinian Technocratic Committee, says the trial phase will last until Sunday and then on Monday, Rafah will be open to pedestrian traffic for the first time in nearly two years. It has been largely closed since May 2024, when Israeli forces in Gaza took over the border crossing itself.

But this is just a limited opening. There will be no humanitarian aid or commercial goods as had flowed through that crossing for years. This will be only pedestrian traffic. An Israeli security official says it will be limited to 150 Palestinians leaving Gaza each day, and only 50 allowed back in.

This is really the final phase or the final step in the first phase of the U.S. brokered ceasefire agreement. Israel had refused to open it until all of the living and deceased hostages had been returned from Gaza, and the final deceased hostage was returned just last week.

Oren Liebermann, CNN, in Jerusalem.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DEAN: All right, Oren, thanks so much.

And we're joined now by former State Department Middle East negotiator, Aaron David Miller. He's now a senior fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.

Aaron, good to have you. As Oren just laid out, this is a trial phase. Only 150 Palestinians a day will be allowed to leave Gaza. They will reportedly have to pay thousands of dollars, which few of them can afford. No humanitarian aid will be allowed through the crossing. But what does this all tell you about where things stand right now, both Israel's thinking, the U.S. thinking and more?

AARON DAVID MILLER, FORMER STATE DEPARTMENT MIDDLE EAST NEGOTIATOR: It's the end of phase one, Jessica. And look, for the 18,000 to 20,000 Palestinians who are suffering either from cancer, inadequate diet, dialysis, complicated surgeries that they can't get in Gaza, opening Rafah will provide slowly, unfortunately and tragically, an exit process for them. 150 a day with 20,000 who are eligible obviously is much -- is not what you need in order to address that humanitarian issue.

Look, it's one step forward. Rafah is going to be open by Monday. Pedestrian traffic only, probably. Israeli strikes against Hamas commanders exiting the tunnel, across the yellow line suggests that the Israelis are going to continue to look for every opportunity they can to hammer Hamas in large part because government committed itself to destroying the organization. It's resurging to a certain degree. And as a political force, it remains intact. And I would argue, going stronger.

So the real question now, Jessica, is phase two. Who's going to govern Gaza? Will it be legitimate governance? Who's going to provide the security in Gaza? What about demilitarization of Hamas' weapons, the tunnel infrastructure which needs to be destroyed? And finally, who's going to provide the humanitarian assistance more importantly, over time, the reconstruction assistance that's necessary to give 1.9 Palestinians who live in the Hamas controlled zone a better future?

DEAN: Yes. And those are really pressing questions that you just laid out there. Where -- how would you assess where the discussions are about that?

MILLER: I mean, I'd like to think that there'll be progress on this, but I've been around Israeli-Palestinian negotiators for a long time. We've discussed this multiple times. They only have two speeds, slow and slower, and strikes me that as the months go by and as the divisions between the 53 percent that the Israelis control and the 47 percent that Hamas controls, those divisions are going to harden.

And more than likely, unless you have extraordinary leadership among Palestinians and in Israel and in Washington, Gaza is going to divided, dysfunctional and sadly, sporadically, very violent.

DEAN: And again, just going back to the Rafah Crossing for a second, because that is, you know, what's happening now. That was a crossing we came back to again and again and again throughout this war.

[18:45:04]

It was always a point of contention. What is -- help people understand the significance of it reopening albeit in this very limited way.

MILLER: I mean, the Israelis and the Egyptians control what gets into Gaza and what gets out, and both have security issues that will govern, I suspect. Egyptians do not want thousands of Palestinians exiting Gaza and residing permanently in Israel -- in Egypt. That includes Sinai. The Israelis, on the other hand, do not want to admit large numbers of Gazans who have left through Rafah or another crossings to come back through Rafah.

So Rafah offers a limited practical instrument for passages, pedestrian passages, and most of the other crossing points that allow humanitarian assistance. Rafah will not be a main crossing point for food, fuel, and other humanitarian necessities. It's hopeful, it was a commitment the Israelis undertook. It's going to be discharged I think fitfully. Who's going to control the border crossing. Egyptians will on their side.

The Israelis will not be present visibly, although through remote sensors, they will have hands on capacity to determine who comes in and who goes out. Palestinian Authority will be involved and the Europeans as well. But again, Rafah's utility and its viability is going to depend, Jessica, on the three questions that I basically asked. And right now, whatever the intentions are on the part of the Trump administration to get these questions answered, progress is going to be achingly slow. And that is particularly distressing for the 1.9 million Palestinians who live in the Hamas-controlled zone.

DEAN: Because from Israel's thinking, you know, how would you say, how would you describe where they are on this phase two?

MILLER: Look, everything for much of this war depended on Benjamin Netanyahu's political calculations. I mean, the Israelis suffered an extraordinary trauma on October 7th, willful and indiscriminate killing of men, women and children, sexual predation, mutilation, the taking of hostages. But so much about the way this war has been waged, the amount of humanitarian assistance let in and not let in, the risk transfer, the number of civilian casualties, have been driven in large part by political calculations.

And 2026, you're going to have an election. The prime minister of Israel is not happy, frankly, because I think he understands that the demilitarization of Hamas is going to be almost impossible. So he's going to -- he's presiding still over the most right-wing extreme government in Israel's history. He's going to be very withholding when it comes to being flexible in terms of phase two.

Demilitarization of Hamas is critically important, and it should be undertaken. But doing it is going to be incredibly contentious. And I don't think the Trump administration, Board of Peace notwithstanding, has a viable, practical plan to basically force or even persuade Hamas to give up its weapons and to dismantle its tunnel infrastructure.

So, again, as I mentioned, more than likely, tragically and sadly, the future of 2026 for Gaza is going to be divided, dysfunctional, as we saw yesterday with the Israeli strikes sporadically, very violent.

DEAN: All right, Aaron David Miller, thank you. We appreciate it.

MILLER: Thank you.

DEAN: And breaking now into CNN, President Trump announcing via social media that the Kennedy Center will be closing temporarily. We'll explain his thinking right after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:53:41]

DEAN: Breaking news now, President Trump saying the Kennedy Center, which the center's board has deemed the Trump Kennedy Center, will close on July 4th for two years to undergo renovations. Remember, President Trump currently chairs the board of trustees at the center after getting rid of the former board of trustees, installing his own board, and that board electing him the chair.

CNN's Julia Benbrook is joining us now with more on this.

Julia, we're just hearing this. What else is he saying? BENBROOK: That's right. President Donald Trump has been intensely

focused on the performing arts center here in Washington, D.C. We know that he just recently put his name up on the building. It now says that it is the Trump Kennedy Center, and he is now announcing that major construction, major renovations are going to take place and that the center is going to close on July 4th in order for that to happen.

That construction will last for approximately two years. But I want to pull up this post so you can hear exactly from him what his plans are for this. He said, "I have determined that the Trump Kennedy Center is, if temporarily closed for construction, revitalization and complete rebuilding can be without question the finest performing arts facility of its kind anywhere in the world." He went on to say, "If we don't close, the quality of construction will not be nearly as good and the time to completion because of interruptions with audiences from many events, using the facility will be much longer.

[18:55:12]

"The temporary closure will produce a much faster and higher quality results. Therefore, the Trump Kennedy Center will close on July 4th, 2026 in honor of the 250th anniversary of our country, whereupon we will simultaneously begin construction of the new and spectacular entertainment complex. Financing is completed and fully in place."

Now, he did say that this was depending on board approval. To your point though, Jessica, there are a lot of Trump loyalists on this board. It would be hard to imagine them pushing back on this. And this is Trump's latest move to reshape Washington to kind of re-envision it in the way that he wants to see it. Of course, we saw the East Wing tore down. That is getting rebuilt. We've heard conversations in recent days about a huge arch that he would like to build.

And then on the Kennedy Center specifically, ever since he has really come into leadership and power there, there's been a lot of controversy with performers canceling some of their acts, some of them citing leadership as the reason that they are doing that.

DEAN: And the question, too, Julia, the financing, where that might be coming from. Any more details on that?

BENBROOK: We don't know at this point. We are reaching out to the White House for information on that specifically. He said that financing is complete, but we don't have details on exactly where that's coming from at this point.

DEAN: Yes, a lot of questions around that as they've been taking private financing on some of these projects.

Julia Benbrook, at the White House, thank you for that.

More CNN NEWSROOM coming your way next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)