Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Trump: U.S. Airman "Safe & Sound" After Rescue Operation; Trump: "Time Is Running Out" For Iran to Reopen Hormuz; Pope Leo Celebrates Easter Sunday Mass At St. Peter's Square; U.S. and Iran Exchange Threats Over Strikes, Strait of Hormuz; NASA Hopes to Build a Lunar Base As New Space Race Heats Up. Aired 5-6a ET

Aired April 05, 2026 - 05:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[05:00:20]

KIM BRUNHUBER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and welcome to all of you watching us here in the United States, Canada and around the world. I'm Kim Brunhuber in Atlanta.

BECKY ANDERSON, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Becky Anderson live from our Middle East programming headquarters in Abu Dhabi in the UAE.

We'll begin this hour with breaking news from the war with Iran. President Donald Trump has announced that the second missing American crew member whose fighter jet was shot down over Iran is now, quote, "safe and sound" after being rescued by U.S. forces. But Iran's state media claims that the rescue operation failed and says several enemy aircraft were destroyed. Well, CNN is unable to verify those claims and has reached out to the U.S. military for comment. The high-stakes search began this week after an F-15 Strike Eagle fighter jet was shot down in the region.

CNN's Jim Sciutto reports that the colonel got in touch with the U.S. military from behind enemy lines on Friday, which set the stage for what was this dramatic rescue operation. Well, CNN's Brian Todd joining us live from Washington.

And Brian, a U.S. official, as I understand it, confirming the rescue to you some hours ago. What further details do you have at this point?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, that official did confirm the rescue, Becky, and says that the operation was completed. Well, I pressed him for details on, you know, the rescue mission itself, whether there was a firefight involved, as there have been some reports that there was one. That official not able to give me those details just then.

But we're going to, of course, pursue those details in the coming hours to see if we can get just some of the really crucial details of how this rescue effort went down. Some of those details coming from President Trump in his "Truth Social" post this morning, saying just basically how close a call this could have been. In the president's words, quote, "This brave warrior was behind enemy lines in the treacherous mountains of Iran being hunted down by our enemies, who were getting closer and closer by the hour."

But -- and we also pieced together some other detail of the rescue operations from the previous day as they were looking for this missing airman. There were reports that the Iranian media was offering people in that remote region of Iran a reward for information leading to his capture, if they could get to him before the Americans got to him.

Also reporting that there were some tribal members of a local community in that remote area of Iran that fired on a U.S. -- on U.S. helicopters who were taking part in the rescue operations. So, between those accounts and the president's account of just how close a call this was, you get a picture that this was a real race to try to get to this airman in -- you know, before the other side did, between the American and Iranian forces. As Becky mentioned, the Iranian Tasnim News Agency is denying that this was a successful rescue effort. They say that the rescue effort failed and that there were several American aircraft destroyed in the operation. We cannot verify the authenticity of that.

We can say that this was the first time a U.S. aircraft was actually shot down in Iran by hostile fire since the conflict began. There was an incident near the beginning of the war when three American F-15 fighter jets were accidentally shot down by Kuwaiti defense forces in a friendly fire incident. But this was the first time that an American fighter jet was shot down by hostile fire.

There was another -- a striking of an American plane on Friday when an American Warthog fighter jet -- fighter plane was -- was struck. But that pilot was able to navigate his plane away from Iranian airspace before he ejected, and then he was rescued.

So, you had basically three rescue operations, Becky, in the course of two full days that ended in pretty dramatic fashion with a real race to get to this latest airman. According to the Americans, he was rescued. According to the Iranians, he was not rescued. This operation failed. And again, we cannot verify the authenticity of the Iranian claim there.

ANDERSON: Yeah. So, more details, of course, as we get them in the hours to come, Brian, for the time being. Thank you for that.

SCIUTTO: Sure.

ANDERSON: Iran showing no signs of backing down despite the latest deadline from the U.S. President Donald Trump says all hell will rain down on Iran if it doesn't do a deal or reopen the Strait of Hormuz by Monday. Tehran stuck to the same theme in its response, saying it will, quote, "open the gates of hell if there are more strikes on its infrastructure."

But Iran is striking its neighbors' energy sites today, including the petroleum facility in Bahrain. Officials say an Iranian attack caused a huge fire this morning, which was later put out. Q8 and here in the United Arab Emirates, also reports of fires at petroleum sites after new Iranian attacks.

[05:05:14]

Let's get you more analysis. We're joined by Christian Bueger. He's a professor of international relations at the University of Copenhagen. He's also co-authored the book, "Understanding Maritime Security." Important to have you here, sir, this morning, speaking to us from Bonn, Germany.

Let's start with these hours ahead of Donald Trump's deadline to attack Iran's infrastructure, including energy and electricity. Missile and drone attacks on the Gulf region causing damage, as I've reported there, to petrochemical sites across the Gulf. What do you see as the risk here of an escalation and a broader regional energy conflict at this point?

CHRISTIAN BUEGER, PROFESSOR OF INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS, UNIVERSITY OF COPENHAGEN: So, the risks are extremely high, and we are probably looking at a new escalation next week because, let's not forget, the ultimatum in itself doesn't make that much sense because Iran has, throughout, argued that the strait actually is open, and we need to be sure what it actually means in practice to open it. So, escalation now is really likely, and that will have dramatic further impact on energy prices, fertilizer supplies, and so on.

ANDERSON: In New York, intense discussions going on, meantime, as we consider what's going on sort of militarily in Iran and around this region. In New York, a diplomatic track and intense discussions about whether or not a Bahraini-led resolution on the Strait of Hormuz can pass. It does seem as if both China and Russia are standouts on that as members of the Security Council, so it hasn't been pushed to a vote as of yet.

And the discussions behind the scenes, very much active, sort of, as we speak, effectively. How important would that resolution on the Strait of Hormuz be, and how do you see its effect at this point, if it gets passed?

BUEGER: So, it's important to recognize that we have several diplomatic negotiation processes ongoing. One is the direct negotiation over individual passage of ships with Iran. The second one is the fertilizer initiative of the U.N. Secretary General, which is absolutely vital to get humanitarian aid and fertilizers through the strait.

An international coalition is forming, currently led by the U.K. and France, about 40 nations that are ready to actually take actions after a ceasefire is in place. And then we have the discussions in New York at the moment, and right now this concerns a resolution of how to reopen the strait gradually. That actually doesn't appear too promising at the moment, because it's clear that military means can do relatively little to bring shipping back to normal.

This discussion, however, is extremely important in terms of how a future solution could look like, and probably we are going to look here at the first United Nations maritime peacekeeping operation.

ANDERSON: It's very clear from sources I speak to here in the UAE that any sort of settlement on this without a settlement on the Strait of Hormuz, and putting that back into sort of international hands, as it were, is absolutely crucial at this point. I think you hear that around this region of the Gulf, that choke point, absolutely vital that it is allowed to function once again. We are, and you're right to point out, Christian, we are seeing the movement of vessels through the Strait of Hormuz.

It does appear that bilateral negotiations going on between individual countries and Iran at present. What do you make of those moves, and how important are they as we continue through this very, very important and difficult phase?

BUEGER: Any ship that gets through the Strait counts, and it's a positive signal that Iran is now at least willing to let more and more ships through. That is not a sustainable solution, and indeed, we need the United Nations, we need a multilateral mechanism that would allow more and more ships to pass through. This piecemeal approach of one ship by one doesn't really work.

[05:10:11]

Let's not forget, the Strait of Hormuz usually has about 140 ships passing through per day, and we need to return to this because the Strait is the crucial waterway of the global economy. And I think the multilateral discussions are promising, but first the hostilities need to end because it's hard to see how any military operation can bring shipping back at the moment. So, we need a little bit of patience here, and also diplomacy do its work.

ANDERSON: These piecemeal agreements, certainly from those I speak to in this region, very much undermining a sort of wider settlement, that's the view. They massively benefit Iran at this point, don't they? Can you just explain how?

BUEGER: So, we do not have many details of how these agreements actually look like. Lloyd's (ph) list, for instance, has reported that up to two million U.S. dollars are being paid for these transits. Whether Omani vessels or Indian vessels actually pay the same sum, we do not know.

But obviously there's also a sort of verification mechanism involved, and that requires each individual passage being agreed with the regime. So, this is not sustainable in the long run, and a multilateral mechanism, perhaps based on the Secretary General's fertilizer initiative, would be needed here. And negotiations are underway, but now it's also time for Iran to show the willingness to let more ships through.

ANDERSON: There is of course a precedent for that potential fertilizer deal. Of course the grain deal during the Russia war on Ukraine was certainly at one point very effective. Whether or not that is still the case is up for discussion.

Christian, it's good to have you. Thank you very much indeed for joining us. Christian Bueger for you this morning. The U.S. State Department says federal agents have detained the niece and grandniece of the late Iranian military commander Qasem Soleimani in a post on ex-Secretary of State Marco Rubio says Soleimani's niece and her daughter were green card holders living, quote, "lavishly in the United States." He says he terminated their legal status and now both are in the custody of immigration officials with their removal from the United States pending.

Well, the State Department called Soleimani's niece a, quote, "outspoken supporter of the totalitarian terrorist regime in Iran." He was a high-ranking Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps commander who was killed in a 2020 U.S. airstrike in Baghdad.

Coming up, we'll get you live to the Vatican where Pope Leo is leading his first Easter mass as pontiff.

Plus, the arrest of the president of Wisconsin's largest mosque causing an uproar among clergy members and elected officials while his legal team says he is being targeted. That is up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[05:17:23]

BRUNHUBER: All right, you're looking at live pictures there as worshipers gather in St. Peter's Square for Pope Leo's first Easter Mass as pontiff. Catholics around the world are celebrating what they say was the resurrection of Jesus. Pope Leo will also deliver his Easter message and give a blessing.

For more, I want to bring in CNN's Vatican correspondent Christopher Lamb, who's live from Rome. So, Christopher, the Pope was speaking during Mass. Take us through what he said.

CHRISTOPHER LAMB, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kim, yes, the Pope has just given his homily for the Easter Sunday Mass in St. Peter's, and he emphasized that Easter offers a message of hope despite the difficulties and suffering going on in the world. He said that the message of Easter responds to the cry of pain that rises from every corner because of the abuses that crush the weakest, the idolatry of profit that plunders the Earth's resources, and because of the violence of war that kills and destroys.

So, covering a lot of themes there, destruction of the environment, that's obviously been a concern of the Pope, and, of course, war, Leo, during this first Holy Week and Easter since his election, has stepped up his criticisms of the war in Iran, calling for peace, speaking to the president of Israel on Good Friday, also speaking to the president of Ukraine, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, on Good Friday, to discuss the conflict there.

Leo really, during this first Easter, is seeking to become a peacemaker pope, offering a kind of global statesmanship at a time when people are looking to him for, you know, a message of hope, and that is what Easter is all about, and that is what he is seeking to communicate during this celebration of Easter, his first since his election.

There's thousands of people gathered here in the square, and we're expecting Leo to come out onto the balcony in a short while, where he'll give a more detailed message, and where he will, we expect, offer a blessing to the city of Rome and to the world in a number of different languages. So, that will be worth watching in a short while.

Kim.

BRUNHUBER: Yeah, interesting. We'll be watching for that one. Christopher Lamb, thanks so much for joining us.

Ukraine's president says he's ready to meet with Russian president Vladimir Putin for peace talks. Volodymyr Zelenskyy spoke during his trip to Turkey, where he met with President Recep Tayyip Erdogan.

[05:20:05]

Zelenskyy says the two leaders agreed on new steps to strengthen their partnership and ensure security in Europe and the Middle East. Erdogan told Ukraine's president that Turkey would continue to support negotiations between Russia and Ukraine. Zelenskyy says the sooner, the better. Here he is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT: We will do everything for this. We spoke with President Erdogan. He's also on this side, on the peace side, and of course we need to stop this war and to use all the values, all the diplomatic experience what our friends have. And also President Erdogan, he wants to make negotiations here in Istanbul. We are ready to come. I always said that we are ready for the meeting on the level of leaders in any kind of format.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BRUNHUBER: Zelenskyy's comments come after a deadly Russian strike on a market in southern Ukraine. At least five people were killed and 27 wounded by a drone attack. Ukrainian officials say the attack sparked a fire and caused damage to market stalls.

Spanish maritime personnel rescued a group of 47 migrants on Saturday. The 44 men and three women were spotted off the coast of the Canary Islands, stranded on a boat and were brought to a port. Red Cross personnel provided medical help. One person had to be taken to hospital for treatment. It's not clear where the migrants came from.

On uproars brewing in Wisconsin after immigration officials arrested the president of the largest mosque in the state. Local officials and religious leaders say he's being targeted for his criticism of Israel. CNN's Josh Campbell has the latest.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: There has been an uproar from elected leaders, members of the clergy, and the general public after the president of the U.S. state of Wisconsin's largest mosque was arrested Monday by immigration agents and then taken out of the state to a jail in Indiana.

Salah Sarsour is a Palestinian-born legal permanent resident of the United States who has lived here for over 30 years. According to his legal team, they believe their client has been singled out by the administration of Donald Trump based on his past criticism of the state of Israel.

Now, the specific reason for his detention remains an open question amid conflicting claims by the U.S. Department of Homeland Security. In Sarsour's legal team, his attorneys say he was detained on the grounds that he is a foreign policy threat, a claim that they adamantly deny. We asked DHS the specific reason for the arrest. They provided CNN this statement, quote, "Salah Sarsour is a terrorist, convicted for throwing Molotov cocktails at the homes of Israeli armed forces. He's illegal alien from Jordan lied on his green card application to gain legal status in the U.S."

Now, his legal team says he's from Palestine, not Jordan, as DHS claims there. We did ask for additional details. We've been referred to the U.S. Department of Justice on what will happen next with this case.

As far as what that criminal history might be that DHS referenced, we found no indication of any U.S. charges in Sarsour's more than 30 years in this country. But his attorneys note that he was convicted as a minor in an Israeli military court decades ago for offenses that they say included allegedly throwing rocks at Israeli officers.

Sarsour's attorneys also say the U.S. government has known about that decades-old conviction in Israel since he came to the U.S. back in 1993. Again, we're hearing from multiple public officials now speaking out about his detention. On social media, the mayor of the city of Milwaukee called his detention an outrage, adding, he is a legal permanent resident. There is no substantive evidence he has done anything wrong. This is another example of overreach and harm from the U.S. immigration authorities.

As far as what happens next, again, he is in a county jail in the U.S. state of Indiana. His attorneys say that they have filed a petition in court seeking his immediate release. We are standing by to see what a judge might ultimately decide.

Josh Campbell, CNN, Los Angeles.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BRUNHUBER: Iran is warning there'll be a price to pay for striking its infrastructure again, but that's not preventing Tehran from doing the same to its neighbors. We'll have that story ahead.

Plus, Israeli police step in as hundreds of protesters push back against the war in Tel Aviv. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [05:27:39]

ANDERSON: Welcome back. I'm Becky Anderson, live from our Middle East programming headquarters here in Abu Dhabi in the UAE. I want to check in on some of the top stories for you today.

A missing U.S. serviceman whose fighter jet was shot down over Iran has now been rescued by U.S. forces. President Donald Trump announcing the rescue in a social media post just a few hours ago. He said that the colonel sustained injuries but will be just fine, in his words.

Iran's state media, however, has claimed that the rescue operation failed and that several enemy aircraft were destroyed.

Well, President Trump says all hell will rain down on Iran if it doesn't reopen the Strait of Hormuz by Monday. Tehran stuck to the same theme in its response, saying it will open the gates of hell if there are more strikes on Iran's infrastructure.

Three Gulf states are reporting fires and damage at their petroleum sites after new Iranian attacks today, this Sunday. That includes this facility in Bahrain, where officials say the flames were later put out. Kuwait and here in the United Arab Emirates reports that they were targeted as well.

Let's bring in CNN's Eleni Giokos, who's standing by for us in Dubai. Let's get the latest from you, as we understand it, Eleni, on the rescue of this U.S. airman.

ELENI GIOKOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So, U.S. special forces going into Iranian territory able to secure, locate and rescue the second U.S. crew member that was on that F-15 fighter jet that was downed in Iran on Friday. You'll remember just a few hours the downing of that fighter jet. U.S. special forces were able to rescue one crew member and then it was a race between Iran and the United States to locate this colonel.

From what we understand, Iran had put out a reward for anyone that was able to locate him internally, also sort of touting this as a win for Iran. What we saw transpire after that is tribesmen holding armory and allegedly targeting and reportedly targeting some of the Black Hawk helicopters that were on the rescue mission, 36 hours later, U.S. special forces were able to locate and then extract him. What we're hearing from military analysts is that if this colonel was in the hands of Iran, it would have been a bargaining chip for the Iranians. Clearly a very different scenario that's playing out now.

[05:30:06]

But then importantly, Iranian state media a short while ago categorically denying this rescue mission and in fact saying that several American aircraft in southern Isfahan were downed. Now, there's no real evidence of that apart from a few images that were posted by the parliamentary speaker Ghalibaf, but we've reached out to U.S. military for comment on this. But of course a very important weekend, even though President Trump was saying that the downing of this fighter jet wasn't going to derail conversations, we're now sitting at a crucial moment, Becky, where we have this deadline that President Trump says that all hell will break loose in Iran if they do not open up the Strait of Hormuz.

And that's sort of important given the fact that we've seen a change in the deadline over the past few weeks and of course continued strikes here in the Gulf and importantly on critical energy infrastructure and then a water and power plant site in Kuwait resulting in two units closing down there, Becky. So, a crucial moment. It depends on, you know, what kind of military capabilities Iran still has, but I think everyone here is on edge to see what happens next.

ANDERSON: Yeah, absolutely. Eleni, good to have you. Thank you.

Syria has temporarily closed one of its border crossings with Israel out of concern it could be hit by airstrikes. Israel has warned it'll attack that facility, saying it's used by Hezbollah to smuggle weapons. But Syrian officials say the crossing northwest of the capital of Damascus is only used for civilian transit.

Well, more than a million people have had to flee their homes because of Israel's military operations in Lebanon. Some of them say the humanitarian lifeline they rely on for pretty much everything is now drying up.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): Here, when we first arrived, the situation was very good. Aid was reaching everyone. Blankets, mattresses, food aid, anything we needed was being provided. Gas cylinders were being secured through an invisible initiative, and even kitchen utensils were provided. A long time passed before they brought us cooking equipment and such. But since Ramadan ended, no aid has reached this center.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: Well, displaced families have also had trouble getting clean water and medications. Aid groups on the ground have warned that they are struggling to keep up with what is this growing humanitarian crisis. These families say they do want to go back home, but some may not get that option. A military official said that Israel could demolish some towns and villages on the Lebanese side of its border to create what they describe as a buffer zone against Hezbollah.

(CHANT)

ANDERSON: Well, in Tel Aviv, at least 10 people were arrested as police broke up an antiwar protest there Saturday night. Police say that they were rioters who acted disorderly. Before the arrests, officers warned demonstrators that the crowd size exceeded the limits set by Israel's Supreme Court. Antiwar rallies have been happening weekly since the conflict began.

Italy's prime minister has wrapped up her two-day Middle East trip, the first by an E.U. leader since the U.S. and Israel launched their war with Iran. Giorgia Meloni visited Qatar and the UAE on Saturday, after holding talks with Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman on Friday.

Italian officials say the trip was meant to show support for Gulf partners and to protect, importantly, Italy's energy supplies during, what is this, Strait of Hormuz partial closure. Italy recently blocked a U.S. aircraft bound for the Middle East from using a military base in Sicily. And Meloni also spoke out after U.S. President Donald Trump slammed her country for not supporting the war, saying, this time, we agree.

I'm Becky Anderson in Abu Dhabi. Kim will have more of today's top stories for us just after this short break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[05:37:23]

ANDERSON: We'll get you back to our top story and the war in Iran. For more, I'm joined by Hasan Alhasan. He's a senior fellow for Middle East Policy at the International Institute for Strategic Studies there in Myanmar.

Good to have you this morning. Hassan, we've got images of smoke rising from a petroleum facility in Bahrain. The latest example of Iranian attacks on the region. What's the latest as you understand it there?

HASAN ALHASAN, SENIOR FELLOW FOR MIDDLE EAST POLICY, INTERNATIONAL INSTITUTE FOR STRATEGIC STUDIES: Absolutely, this is largely expected as a result of the escalation in U.S. and Israeli targeting of economic industrial targets in Iran. It was widely expected that Iran would retaliate in kind by hitting similar targets across the Gulf states. And this just happens to be the latest one.

We've seen previous attacks as well on steel and other industrial facilities, not just in Bahrain, but in Kuwait and elsewhere as well. And this is, of course, part of the broader pattern of escalation and counter escalation that Iran has established by retaliating against U.S. and Israeli strikes against its own infrastructure, not against the U.S. and Israel, but against the Arab Gulf states. So, this is not -- not at all a surprise.

ANDERSON: Bahrain is pushing hard to get a U.N. Security Council proposal to a vote, possibly now on Tuesday, that would authorize naval action to defend ships on the Strait of Hormuz, both there and in the UAE and across this region. It is very clear that a sort of settlement on this war, which does seem some distance away at this point, and you know, correct me if I'm wrong, but a settlement would have to -- would have to allow for the opening of that strait. It is a crucial lifeline for these Gulf countries.

What do you understand to be the status of that proposal at this point? As I understand it, China and Russia still sort of holdouts, possibly would veto this, which would be a huge message to these Gulf nations.

ALHASAN: I think the Gulf states understand very well the risks involved in keeping the Strait of Hormuz under Iranian control and under Iranian extortion, because essentially it's the equivalent of giving Iran the keys to global energy markets and to the global economy. Iran would be able to control who gets to export, by what quantity, and when, and will be able to extend authorizations or revoke them at will, and essentially hold the rest of the region hostage. And the same applies, of course, to global energy security.

[05:40:20]

So, the risks involved in ending the war without a deal that guarantees safe and normal passage for maritime vessels across the Strait of Hormuz would absolutely be a disaster to the Gulf states, but also to global energy security.

Bahrain has pushed ahead with this draft resolution that seeks to authorize the use of all necessary means. There have been multiple revisions, a watering down to account for Russian, Chinese, and even French opposition. But I think from the Gulf states' perspective, it's best to have more options on the table than less.

If there is a resolution that allows for the use of force, then that's an additional option in the toolkits. It's not necessarily the only, or even the preferred course of action. Any military operation to secure the Strait would obviously be risky and complicated.

And I suspect that the preference of most countries in the region would be for a peaceful and diplomatic settlement that ensures a safe navigation through the Strait of Hormuz. But if Iran, or the U.S., or for some reason we fail to get to that deal, then you would want more options rather than less.

ANDERSON: We're hours away from a deadline for either a deal or the opening of the Strait of Hormuz, or hell will break out, according to Donald Trump. "Reuters" reporting that Egypt has held calls with Steve Witkoff and with regional players. With the Pakistan Avenue seemingly dead for talks. What chance, to your mind, Egypt could have more success at this point?

ALHASAN: So, Egypt and Pakistan both have a very strong vested interest in these negotiations, essentially coming to fruition, because they're both among the most heavily exposed countries to this energy crisis. They rely massively on imports of oil and other forms of energy and distillates from the Gulf region. And they are some of the most vulnerable countries because of shortages of strategic reserves and because of their population sensitivity to movements and prices.

So, they really have a strong interest in ensuring a de-escalation and that energy can continue to flow through the Strait normally.

Now, no negotiation can work, whether Pakistani or Egyptian, if the main parties to the conflict don't see it as being in their interest to de-escalate at this stage. So, I think it's important that these negotiations and these mediation efforts occur in parallel. They need to be there just in case, if and when these parties, notably the U.S. and Israel on the one hand and Iran on the other, see it as being in their interest to de-escalate. At the moment, that doesn't seem to be the case. The U.S. is promising escalation. Israel wants to degrade Iran as much as possible. And the Iranians believe that they need to survive this in order for the regime to endure.

ANDERSON: Yeah, the coming hours absolutely critical in terms of both what happens militarily and diplomatically. We'll see what happens. And we will speak again. For the time being. Thank you, Hasan. Hasan Alhasan is in Bahrain for you.

I'm Becky Anderson in Abu Dhabi in the UAE. Kim will have more of today's top stories for you after this short break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[05:47:42]

BRUNHUBER: The Artemis 2 mission is now closer to the moon than it is to Earth. NASA says the spacecraft has traveled more than two-thirds of the way to its main goal. Although it's been a relatively quiet journey so far, the crew did have some technical difficulties with their toilet. Using the restroom is more complicated, of course, in space due to the lack of gravity, but NASA says the toilet is now back up and running.

Meanwhile, on Saturday, NASA released more stunning photos taken by the crew. But instead of focusing on the beauty of the Earth, this time the photos captured the moon as they draw closer to it.

Now, the moon mission is one part of NASA's long-term vision for space exploration. The agency has long set its sights on creating a moon- based settlement for astronauts to live and work in more permanently. They recently announced investing as much as $20 billion over the next seven years to the project.

But the U.S. isn't alone in those ambitions. China is also seeking to establish a permanent foothold there. A new space race could be opening up, and NASA is betting on Artemis to be a key part of winning.

I want to bring in Clayton Swope. He's the Deputy Director of the Aerospace Security Project and a Senior Fellow of the Defense and Security Department at CSIS. Thank you so much for being here with us. You've written about why going back to the moon isn't just about exploration. So, explain what you think is -- is really driving all this.

CLAYTON SWOPE, DEPUTY DIRECTOR, AEROSPACE SECURITY PROJECT: Yeah, sure. Like you mentioned, it's hard not to think about China and the competition between the U.S. and China when we talk about the moon. But beyond that, we should realize that the moon does hold strategic value.

So, the U.S. really wants to think about it from that standpoint. It has a great location, great real estate for any future endeavor in the cosmos. It has natural resources that we'll want to use for those journeys into the cosmos, things like water ice that can be used for propellant.

And then also really back to China, it's something that we should think about when we look at the U.S. preeminence in space right now for space exploration, commercial activity in space, security interest in space. It's something that we want to think about as we move forward, that China is also looking at the moon in that way. And that shouldn't surprise us that the U.S. as well, both countries are looking at the moon from that strategic value.

[05:50:00]

BRUNHUBER: Yeah. OK, so before I get to resources and security, you mentioned real estate. I'm interested in this. China, as you say, has its moon mission coming up and it plans to build a research station at the moon's South Pole by 2035, I understand. Now, the moon is a -- is a pretty big place. So, why does everyone seem focused on that same spot?

SWOPE: So, some of the resources on the moon, like water, ice and even sun, because a lot of places on the moon, they're in darkness for long periods of time, 14 days, really. There are certain places, though, that have more sun than others. So, if you look at the things, the building blocks, you could say for what people would need if they're doing something on the moon or they're trying to go beyond the moon, let's say to Mars or somewhere else in the solar system, that geography matters, the moon itself, but also on the moon, there are places that have more access to those resources than others.

So, the water rises only in certain region in the poles. The sun shines for the longest time on certain parts of the moon that are on craters, actually. So, on the edge of craters, those are some of the areas where you have the most access to sunlight.

And then there's other resources too, things like helium-3, for example. This is something that has value to quantum technologies. So that is a material that has a value on Earth and not just for other activities in space.

So, just like on the Earth, if you think about, well, where is oil or where is some mine that has gold in it, for example, there are only certain parts of the moon that have those most important characteristics when we're talking about that good real estate. But then broader than that, it's just the moon by itself. You could think of it like a rest area on the highway into the cosmos. So, it's kind of two layers there of where the value is from a real estate standpoint.

BRUNHUBER: Right. So, with all of that, then, I mean, it sounds like, you know, our country is going to be basically competing and scrambling over what's on the moon the way that they're competing over, let's say, oil or minerals here on Earth.

SWOPE: It's hard to say when something like that would happen. I think one way to look at it is when Thomas Jefferson commissioned the Lewis and Clark expedition, we didn't really know what the western part of the United States, what kind of resources were there, what value was there. I think people thought it had some value. They couldn't put their finger on a number. So, I think we should look at the moon in a very similar way, that it does have some value that is really hard to estimate today. A lot of that does have to do with the location and the resources.

And then in addition, just the national pride of being there and the science that could be done from the moon. But it does have that value that we'll probably want to think about how maybe protect is the wrong word, but how to position the U.S. and U.S. companies best to take advantage of that, because there will be competition. Again, don't know exactly when. It's probably not tomorrow. And the most likely competitor is going to be China and companies from China that will be competing with the United States.

BRUNHUBER: Yeah. OK. So, let's talk about competition and how to regulate that competition. I guess on one side, you've got more than 50 countries that have signed the Artemis Accords, and on the other side, China and Russia kind of building their own coalition. Does it start to look to you like two rival camps, you know, carving up the moon before anyone's actually built anything there?

CLAYTON SWOPE: Well, we look at just kind of how space is governed, including the moon, from an international standpoint. There's one treaty and it dates to 1967, the Outer Space Treaty, that really sets the foundation. There's a few other treaties, but that's really the main one.

So, that's one that the U.S., China, Russia, and many others have signed. That is very general in some of the areas that would be applicable here. Particularly, we're talking about using resources. It's very clear that countries can't claim jurisdiction or sovereignty of places like the moon.

So, you kind of ask, well, how can you have rights over material if you can't claim jurisdiction over them? Well, the U.S. has said in U.S. law that U.S. companies can. These are areas, though, where maybe China and Russia don't necessarily see eye to eye with the U.S. When we talk about the Artemis Accords, this is a way that the United States looked with its international partners to try to find ways to add a little more granularity to what we talk about in the Outer Space Treaty. But Russia and China, they haven't signed that. They have their own, you could say, framework around their plans for the moon that is really driven by China with Russia as a very junior partner when we're talking about bringing things to the table.

But they have signed up other countries to that vision that includes building a moon base. Less emphasis on principles like in Artemis, but it still is showing that China is trying to use space as a tool to gain diplomatic allies and then overlay that with a vision of what China wants to see in space and on the moon from a governance standpoint.

BRUNHUBER: All right. So, when we talk about, you know, conflict in space, it's hard for some of us not to think beyond, you know, Star Wars and so on and so forth. But I mean, when we talk national security and the moon, I mean, what does that actually look like in practice when you're talking about the Space Force? Is it keeping an eye on what's happening up there, or could it go further than that?

[05:55:09]

SWOPE: Probably now and in the next few years, it's not something where you'd have the U.S. Space Force with Guardians on the moon. You wouldn't necessarily have a military base on the moon. It's not something where you'd have the U.S. Space Force, the U.S. military, other countries around the world, they just kind of want to have a better sense of what's going on, on the moon, around the moon, to the moon, the area between Earth and the moon. This is generally called cislunar space.

From a security standpoint, countries will just want to know what's happening there to keep better tabs on what maybe other rivals are doing. I think in the case of the U.S., this is really focused on China and Russia. What are they doing in that region of space that includes the moon, on the surface of the moon, the orbit of the moon, maybe just to get a better sense of where there could be a threat.

Because as we expand to the both from a civil standpoint, from NASA and exploration, and then also a commercial standpoint, U.S. companies are going to the moon and wanting to do things on the moon and test out business ideas on the moon.

BRUNHUBER: Yeah.

SWOPE: There will be U.S. interests there. And as those grow, it shouldn't surprise anyone that from a national security and defense standpoint, for example, the U.S. Space Force wants to be there to be able to provide protection and defense for U.S. interests.

BRUNHUBER: So, a long way away from that as the Artemis mission looks to go further than any humans have gone before. Really appreciate getting your take on this. Clayton Swope, thank you so much.

SWOPE: You're welcome.

BRUNHUBER: All right, briefly before we go, Michigan and UConn will face off for the men's college basketball championship Monday night. The Michigan Wolverines secured their spot in the final with a dominant 91-73 win over Arizona. They set an NCAA tournament record with their game scoring more than 90 points. UConn advanced with a 71- 62 win over Illinois. Huskies now have a chance to win their third national championship in four years.

Well, that wraps this hour of CNN Newsroom. I'm Kim Brunhuber. "CNN This Morning" is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)