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Former Staffer Accuses California Congressman Eric Swalwell of Rape; Face-to-Face Peace Talks Between U.S. and Iran Underway; Stabbing Attack in Grand Central Terminal; Rally Supporting Son of Deposed Iranian Shah Underway in Los Angeles; Consumer Sentiments Down to Lowest Level Ever; Artemis II Crew Returns to Earth. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired April 11, 2026 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:01:17]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN HOST: Hello, again everyone, and thank you so much for joining me. I'm Fredricka Whitfield.

All right. This breaking news today following the exclusive CNN reporting about alleged sexual misconduct against Democratic Congressman Eric Swalwell, who is currently running for governor in California. The Manhattan District Attorney's Office announcing today it is launching an investigation into an allegation of sexual assault against the congressman. The move, coming one day after CNN's reporting that a former staffer for congressman accused him of raping her. Swalwell denies the allegations.

CNN's Pamela Brown broke this story, and she's joining us right now.

Pamela, is there any reaction now to where this investigation is going involving the Manhattan District Attorney's Office?

PAMELA BROWN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I reached out to Congressman Swalwell to see if he had any reaction to that. And at this point, I have not heard back. And as you noted, I sat down with one of the four women accusing him of sexual misconduct. This woman had the most serious allegation, an allegation of rape. And I want to warn our viewers that what you're about to hear is disturbing and graphic.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I kept figuring out ways to blame myself. I shouldn't have reached out to him at all. I should have left. I should have done this. Well, Eric shouldn't have raped me.

BROWN (voice-over): This Capitol Hill staffer is coming forward for the first time on camera to talk about her experience with Congressman Eric Swalwell. He is now a leading Democratic candidate for governor of California.

REP. ERIC SWALWELL (D-CA): Let's get together. Make the biggest wave this state has ever seen. BROWN (voice-over): Swalwell was in his late 30s and married when she

joined his office as an intern and became a junior staffer. She's speaking in shadow as she fears professional consequences.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was in 2019 I was again driving him to an event. This was my job.

BROWN: And you were 21 years old.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And I was 21 years old. We see some sort of parking lot and he says to pull over. He pulls out his penis and instructs me to give him oral sex. And I started to, again, I felt incredibly uncomfortable, and I stopped and I said to him, this feels really uncomfortable and anyone could see us right now. And he said to me, you're right. It's probably not good for a congressman to be caught with his pants down.

BROWN (voice-over): Swalwell calls her allegations false. His campaign responded earlier to vague accusations on social media related to his behavior with staffers.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Did you ever behave inappropriately with female staffers?

SWALWELL: No. No. It's false. And also, you know, some of the allegations I've seen, which is that we've had NDAs in the office. Never. There's never been an allegation and there's never been a settlement. And, you know, I will also just take stock that, look, we're 27 days before an election starts.

BROWN: Did he ask you to send him lewd photos?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

BROWN: And did he ever send lewd photos?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. He would send short Snapchat videos of him rubbing his penis through his pants while on the airplane.

BROWN (voice-over): The staffer says she liked Swalwell's attention at first and nervously went along with it, which included sending back nude photos of herself. But in September 2019, she says she and some friends met up with Swalwell. After a night of heavy drinking, she says she woke up naked with Swalwell in a hotel room with no memory of what happened.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The five of us were having some drinks. At some point, it was time to go home. I got in an Uber. I was taken to the Aloft Dublin-Pleasanton, where he was staying.

[15:05:04]

And I don't remember what happened that night, but I know that we -- there was sexual contact because when I woke up in the morning, I could feel that there was. And he said as much, too.

BROWN: What did he say.?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That last night was great. It didn't feel great to me because I didn't remember it.

BROWN: And so you blacked out and you end up in his hotel room and wake up with him?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

BROWN (voice-over): She says another incident occurred in 2024 after this event in New York, where Swalwell gave a speech.

SWALWELL: Some of us are working hard on Capitol Hill.

BROWN (voice-over): At the time, she no longer worked for Swalwell's office.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I decided to ask him to meet me for a drink, and I did this because I was so far removed from what had happened in 2019. I felt safe because I was established. I had a partner. I felt more secure that I could have a strictly professional relationship with this person. After that bar closed, we went to another. I went to the bathroom and I don't remember anything after that.

BROWN: You don't remember anything?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I remember the next day. I can see flashes of that evening of him on top of me, me pushing him off, him grabbing me. It was a lot more aggressive. It was aggressive.

BROWN: Did you say no?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I said no. I said -- in my flash that I can recall I was pushing him off of me saying no.

BROWN: And what did he do?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He didn't stop.

BROWN: He didn't stop. And you woke up the next morning.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I woke up the next morning naked, alone in his hotel room. I for a moment didn't even know I was in his hotel room. That's how intoxicated I was. And I called my mom, the only person I could think that could help me.

BROWN (voice-over): Her mother confirmed her account in an interview with CNN. CNN also reviewed screenshots of texts she sent to a friend saying she was, quote, "sexually assaulted" by Eric. She also shared this note from a physician's assistant, calling her a, quote, "survivor" after she went to get tested for STDs one week later.

Why do you feel like it's so important to speak out now?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When I found out there were others who might have been impacted by Eric in different ways, I realized I couldn't be scared anymore because that is how he keeps us quiet. The fear, the shame.

BROWN (voice-over): In addition to this former staffer, three other women who spoke with CNN also alleged sexual misconduct by Swalwell. One said he kissed her and touched her without her consent. Two of the women said he sent them unsolicited, explicit messages or nude images of himself, something the others say Swalwell did with them as well.

One shared this message where he commented on her photo and wrote, quote, "That swimsuit," with an expletive. "You like it?" she responded. "Yes, very much like," he wrote. In a statement to CNN, Swalwell said, quote, "These allegations are false and come on the eve of an election against the frontrunner for governor. For nearly 20 years, I have served the public as a prosecutor and a congressman and have always protected women."

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There is another me out there. There is another young girl who dreams of working in this field and believes in him and could fall into this trap.

BROWN: And that's why you're speaking out?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

BROWN: You want to protect others like you when you were young.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No one protected me. Sorry. No one protected me. And I don't want someone else to suffer because I know what I know.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN (on-camera): And as you noted, Fredricka, the Manhattan DA's Office announced after our report that it is investigating that rape allegation. So far Congressman Swalwell, as I noted, hasn't responded to that investigation, but he did release this video on social media last night denying the sex assault allegation. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SWALWELL: A lot has been said about me today through anonymous allegations, and I thought it was important that you see and hear from me directly. These allegations of sexual assault are flat false. They are absolutely false. They did not happen. They have never happened. And I will fight them with everything that I have. They also come on the eve of an election where I have been the frontrunner candidate for governor in California.

I do not suggest to you in any way that I'm perfect or that I'm a saint.

[15:10:00]

I have certainly made mistakes in judgment in my past, but those mistakes are between me and my wife. And to her, I apologize deeply for putting her in this position. I also apologize to you if in any way you have doubted your support for me. But I think you know who I am. For over 20 years, I have served the public. As a city councilman, as a member of Congress, and as a prosecutor who went to court on behalf of victims, particularly on behalf of sexual assault victims. That's who I am and have always been.

This weekend, I'm going to spend time with my family and friends, and I appreciate those who have reached out to me to show support, and I look forward to updating you very soon.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Swalwell is under mounting pressure by leaders in the Democratic Party to withdraw his candidacy for governor in California.

I also want to note, Fredricka, that two of the women we interviewed received cease and desist letters from Swalwell's lawyer. They are standing by their account to CNN.

Back to you.

WHITFIELD: All right. Wow. Many layers on this investigation as it continues. Thank you so much, Pamela Brown. Appreciate that and that reporting.

BROWN: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: All right. Now to the high stakes peace talks between the U.S. and Iran underway right now in Pakistan. Vice President J.D. Vance is leading the negotiations for the U.S. The direct talks are the highest level face-to-face meetings between the U.S. and Iran since the Islamic Revolution in 1979. They are being mediated, these current talks being mediated by Pakistan.

The United States's 15-point peace proposal is said to include Iran committing to no nuclear weapons, handing over its highly enriched uranium, and reopening the Strait of Hormuz. Iran's 10-point plan calls for Iranian control of the Strait of Hormuz, reparations for war damages and the withdrawal of U.S. forces from the region. President Trump has warned Iran if a peace deal is not reached, the U.S. will ramp up its military action in the region.

We've got team coverage across the globe. Betsy Klein is at the White House. Let's get started with CNN's Clarissa Ward in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia.

Clarissa, these talks have now carried over, you know, past midnight, Islamabad time. What more do we know?

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Fredricka. So they have been talking now face-to-face or directly, I should say, for more than six hours. This was after, if you recall, some concerns that the talks might not even happen. The Iranian delegation had threatened that if there wasn't a ceasefire in Lebanon immediately and if Iranian assets were not unfrozen, that they wouldn't negotiate directly. But nonetheless, the talks are well underway now.

We are hearing that there have been two rounds of talks so far, with a third round scheduled to take place, presumably shortly. There was also reports of a working dinner between the two sides, and we're learning that the talks have reached now what they call, and this is according to the Iranian government, I should say, expert level, meaning that technical teams are now involved with these talks as well.

Now, this is significant in the sense that there's been a lot of speculation how on earth any common ground could be found between these two sides, given the glaring disparity, as you just pointed out, between Iran's 10-point plan, the U.S.'s 15-point plan and specific areas of real difference, primarily of course Iran's nuclear program, the enriched uranium, which is still inside Iran, what would be done with that. Iran has said that that is a red line for them.

Also, of course, the Strait of Hormuz, which has continued to be in a chokehold despite the fact that these negotiations and the ceasefire were predicated on Iran opening up the strait. Iran has said that it wants to continue to control access to the strait. That, of course, is a real red line, not just for the U.S., but for many of the Gulf countries like Saudi Arabia, where I am at the moment.

Other big issues, Iran's ballistic missile capabilities, regional proxies. So a number of thorny issues to work through and remains to be seen when these talks will end. Will they go through the night? Will they go on until tomorrow? When will the leaders of the delegations depart? And we would hope to hear from those leaders on the Iranian and U.S. sides with updates before that happens, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: All right. Keep us posted. Clarissa Ward, thank you so much, in Riyadh.

All right. Let's go to the White House now. Betsy Klein is there.

So what are we hearing from the Trump administration about now entering a third round of talks in Pakistan?

[15:15:02]

BETSY KLEIN, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Fredricka, we are monitoring the president's social media channels very closely to see if he has any reaction here. But for now, the White House is declining to characterize these talks, which they just describe, according to a senior White House official, as ongoing. But the Strait of Hormuz, that critical oil thoroughfare, has been among the key sticking points in these negotiations.

And reopening that strait was one of the key conditions of this very fragile ceasefire struck in recent days. But we had seen minimal passage of ships through that waterway since that ceasefire was reached. And we have learned that in what the Trump administration is casting as a sign of progress that two U.S. Navy guided missile destroyers have begun clearing mines in that strait. We heard from U.S. Central Command Admiral Brad Cooper, he says, quote, "Today we begin the process of establishing a new passage, and we will share this safe pathway with the maritime industry soon to encourage the free flow of commerce."

But right now, Vice President J.D. Vance, along with special envoy Steve Witkoff, the president's son-in-law, Jared Kushner, huddling with their Iranian and Pakistani counterparts for these trilateral, face-to-face talks in Pakistan, which has obviously become a very key interlocutor here. Now, prior to the talks, Vance had told reporters that he was expecting to gauge pretty early on whether Iran was negotiating in good faith.

And I think it's safe to say that now that we are in the six-hour mark, this is going in a positive direction. But Vance said that President Trump gave him some pretty clear guidelines from which to negotiate. And he has really emerged as a central player in these talks. But the president's red line, specifically ending uranium enrichment by Iran, remain unchanged. The president making clear yesterday that even if a deal is not -- if a deal is not reached, the U.S. will intensify its military attacks -- Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: All right. Betsy Klein at the White House, thanks so much.

All right. Let's discuss more now with Trita Parsi. He is the executive vice president at the Quincy Institute for Responsible Statecraft, and he's also the author of "Losing an Enemy: Obama, Iran and the Triumph of Diplomacy."

Trita, great to see you.

TRITA PARSI, EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT, THE QUINCY INSTITUTE FOR RESPONSIBLE STATECRAFT: Good to see you as well.

WHITFIELD: All right. So Vice President J.D. Vance in Pakistan, with these talks now entering a third phase, how does his involvement at the negotiating table possibly help the U.S. get closer to the end of this war?

PARSI: It clearly sends a signal that the United States is very serious about this. This is the second most senior person in the White House, of course, but it also helps overcome a previous problem, which is, of course, that the people who were previously negotiating, Jared Kushner and Steve Witkoff, have lost a tremendous amount of credibility in the eyes of the Iranians, mindful of the fact that the United States is now twice bombed the Iranians in the middle of negotiations.

Even if they're not holding those people personally accountable for it, nevertheless, it is a signal that was needed to be sent that some changes are taking place on the U.S. side in order to approach this diplomacy differently.

WHITFIELD: But while you mentioned that Iran hasn't necessarily been happy with Witkoff and Kushner, they are there. They are also at the table even though J.D. Vance apparently and his team are kind of taking the lead, and with the vice president saying ahead of this visit to Islamabad that President Trump has given clear guidelines.

Is the expectation from Iran that things will be different, presented differently, agreed upon differently as a result of Vance and his team taking the lead in these negotiations?

PARSI: I think Vance being in there and taking the lead is an important factor. But the biggest factor of all is, of course, what has happened in the war. And as you can see, the Iranians brought a very large delegation, including their central bank director, which suggests that the Iranians are expecting that serious sanctions relief is going to be discussed in these talks.

So I think, and also, very importantly, the Iranians are meeting directly with the U.S. team, including with Vance himself. This is something that the Iranians in the past have been very hesitant about. The reason I think they're doing it right now is because they feel much stronger. They feel they have far more leverage than they did before as a result of how this war has gone.

And that, I think, is a critical factor as to why potentially these talks will go differently because the modalities are important. And if the two sides can talk directly to each other, if both sides feel confident, there's a higher chance of getting success.

WHITFIELD: Fascinating. All right, Trita Parsi, we'll leave it there for now. Thank you so much.

PARSI: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: All right. And still to come, new details on the investigation into a deadly attack at New York's Grand Central Terminal.

[15:20:02]

Police say a machete wielding attacker stabbed three people on a subway platform.

And later, the Artemis II crew is safely back on earth. As we're waiting to hear from them this afternoon, we're taking a look at what NASA learned from this historic mission.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: All right. We're continuing to follow breaking news on the machete attack that happened this morning on a New York City subway platform.

[15:25:06]

Police are investigating after a man calling himself Lucifer stabbed three people inside Grand Central Terminal. They were taken to the hospital and all are expected to survive. The NYPD says the attacker, identified as 44-year-old Anthony Griffin, was shot and killed by police after he lunged at an officer.

CNN's chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst, John Miller, is joining me right now.

John, I mean, what are your thoughts on this horrific attack? JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well,

I've been talking to police officials throughout the day about exactly what happened. And they say this started on a train, a subway train, in the subway stop that runs below Grand Central station in the heart of Midtown Manhattan. It spilled out onto a platform where the individual who had this, it's been described as either a very large knife or a machete with a serrated blade and a green handle, police released a photograph of it, attacked these three people, targeting one person who was 84 years old, another person, 65 years old, and a woman who was 70.

Don't know at this point why or if he purposely targeted elderly people, but police officers heard the commotion, responded down to that subway platform, and at that point, and this is all recorded on body camera, according to the NYPD, they ordered the man about 20 times to drop the weapon, put the weapon down, to get back to drop the weapon. And when he advanced towards them, according to the account and what they say is recorded on the video, the officers opened fire and he was killed.

What do we know about him? We know he's got an extensive criminal record. Strangely, he doesn't have any records in the NYPD files of encounters for being an emotionally disturbed person. But a number of crimes, including one in 2019, where he allegedly assaulted someone with a knife with the intent to cause serious injury.

So this is exactly the kind of thing, Fred, that New York City has been trying to root out of their subway system. It's why Commissioner Jessica Tisch put an additional 175 police officers down there. And these two cops who responded today were not assigned to the transit division. They were from the arson explosion division, but they were working one of these overtime posts that have been funded with the specific idea of getting more police in the subway, higher visibility and the ability to respond faster.

WHITFIELD: What an unbelievable situation.

John Miller, thank you so much for those details. Appreciate it.

MILLER: Thanks, Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right. Still to come, as the peace talks continue in Pakistan, many Iranian Americans are rallying around a man many think could become the next leader of Iran, the son of the deposed Shah. We'll take you there live.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:32:35]

WHITFIELD: All right. Welcome back. Happening right now in Los Angeles, a rally supporting the son of the deposed Shah of Iran is underway. The Iranian community there is the largest outside of Iran, and it's deeply divided right now by the war.

I want to bring in now CNN's Julia Vargas Jones. She's at the rally there in the Los Angeles area.

So you've been speaking to the Iranian diaspora since the beginning of this war. How have the views changed, if at all?

JULIA VARGAS JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, they have certainly evolved because, Fred, at the very beginning, we saw an exaltation and people thanking President Trump and saying, thank you for helping liberate our country. And now it has turned to more pressure. This is a rally, a very Los Angeles rally. It's going to be a bunch of cars here with Iranian flags and photos of the son of the Shah, Reza Pahlavi.

They are saying that they want President Trump to, quote, "finish the job." And I will say it was interesting speaking to people here about how they received the message from President Trump earlier this week on Tuesday about ending an entire civilization. There's been some very interesting takes on that. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KATA DEBASHI, PROTESTER: So we have a rally in support of the people of Iran. We just want to send a message to President Trump and his team that we do not want any negotiations with the Islamic Republic. The people of Iran already made their decision. They do not want the Islamic Republic anymore. So we do not want any deals with them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JONES: And now what we're seeing, Fred, is a little bit more nuanced. Now that is one view. I've spoken to other people who said, you know, they understand that what President Trump may be trying to do is put more pressure on the regime, but their families and friends and history really is still in Iran, and that that comment did not land very well.

What we're seeing is people who feel now that they're stuck between these two worlds of wanting to support regime change, but feeling that this president, who they supported in the beginning, is not doing quite enough. They say they wouldn't trust the Iranian regime, the current regime, to keep their word to any kind of deal that comes out of this weekend and the future. And they're saying that in their view this needs to be restarted from the ground up -- Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right. Julia Vargas Jones, thank you so much, in the Los Angeles area.

All right. Straight ahead, warning signs from the factory floor in the Trump economy.

[15:35:06]

Manufacturers say rising costs and uncertainty are squeezing orders and hiring. How this will impact the rest of the country.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) WHITFIELD: All right. New federal data shows that inflation jumped to 3.3 percent in March. That's the highest level we've seen in almost two years. Energy costs are driving the surge with the current pushing up of gas prices last month by a record 21 percent.

[15:40:06]

And these rising prices have Americans feeling more pessimistic about the economy, with consumer sentiment plunging to its lowest level on record.

I'm joined now by Jay Timmons, the president and CEO of the National Association of Manufacturers.

Jay, great to see you.

JAY TIMMONS, PRESIDENT AND CEO, NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF MANUFACTURERS: Good to see you.

WHITFIELD: All right. So it's been one year since Trump announced liberation day in the U.S. In your view, have things changed for the better or worse?

TIMMONS: Well, let me start with some really good news, Fred, if I could. The power of manufacturing was on display this last week with the Artemis space mission. It was absolutely phenomenal to see manufacturers, products at work, and tomorrow actually is a great anniversary as well. It's the 71st anniversary since the introduction of the polio vaccine. And if you think about all of those modern marvels of manufacturing, you realize what the potential is for our industry.

To your direct question, we've seen some really good progress when it comes to taxes. The renewal of the tax bill from 2017, which was renewed and strengthened last year, has given a big boost in the arm to manufacturers. So has modernization of regulations. But we do have some price pressures, there's no doubt about that. Energy costs, as you mentioned, certainly from the effects of the war and the fact that we need permitting reform to access more energy here in the United States.

Those are important issues that manufacturers want to see addressed. And, of course, trade and tariff policy is important as well.

WHITFIELD: Yes. Price pressures is pretty big right now. I mean, people are still talking about it's very difficult to afford all the groceries that they would like to put on their table, filling up their gas tanks, et cetera. And when it comes down to manufacturing jobs, manufacturing jobs in America still are not I guess being galvanized forward the way some people expected they might be.

So what -- you know, where's I guess the uplift or, you know, where's the optimism there as it comes -- as it pertains to manufacturing jobs in America?

TIMMONS: Sure. Sure. So, listen, manufacturers are very excited about the fact that this president and frankly all presidents since I've been involved at the NAM, since George Bush, have wanted to increase manufacturing investment, jobs and wage growth in this country. The tax and regulatory -- or plans and statutes have enabled that in the last few years to occur. But we'd like to see more on the job front.

Look, this year, we've seen a slight uptick in employment since 2025. That's good. PMI numbers have actually improved in the last three months. So what that means is you've got a lot of pent-up optimism. And what I think you'll see soon is some investment and job announcements in the near future. You've seen some investment announcements. But until the tariff policies get formalized and there's more certainty in the system, I think that there's a hesitation to actually spend the dollars. But there's definitely a desire to do so.

WHITFIELD: All right, Jay Timmons, we'll leave it there for now. Thank you so much.

All right. Still to come, does the successful Artemis II mission mean the U.S. is ahead in the newest space race to the moon? How China is America's biggest competition for lunar dominance.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:48:18]

WHITFIELD: All right. The Artemis II crew on their way to Houston to reunite with their families after a historic 10-day mission around the moon's far side. They splashed down just off the coast of San Diego last night. And this mission kickstarted a new wave of exploration that could set the stage for a permanent lunar presence and sending crewed missions to Mars.

Joining me right now with more perspective is Scott Pace. He is the director of the Space Policy Institute at George Washington University.

Scott, great to see you.

SCOTT PACE, DIRECTOR OF THE SPACE POLICY INSTITUTE, GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY: Great to see you. Thank you.

WHITFIELD: So when we first sent a, you know, person to the moon, the U.S. was in a space race with Russia. And now we're on a new frontier to get to the moon's south pole with China gaining traction. So how does China's approach compare to Americas?

PACE: Well, I think the first thing is to realize how much different today's environment is versus the Cold War when we were competing against the Soviet Union. and we were the only two powers there. Today, the U.S. return to the moon is with commercial and international partners. China is -- has its own program and has some cooperation with Russia, but it doesn't have the range of commercial and international partners that the United States has.

In addition, this is really not just a singular race with a fixed endpoint, but it really represents a long-term strategic competition between China and the United States, which of course is occurring in so many other areas in addition to space.

WHITFIELD: So why will it be so important for the U.S. to establish the first lunar base on moon after already having set foot on the moon first?

[15:50:06]

PACE: It's a great question. If you look at what happened with Antarctica, Amundsen, the Norwegian, reached the South Pole in 1911 and it was 1956 before the U.S. Navy returned to the South Pole, about 45 years. And the reason is not simply to explore and reach the pole, but to actually set up a permanent facility. And so one of the reasons the United States has influence in Antarctica today is because we put 3,000 people on the ice every year. We have infrastructure, we have transportation, communications, logistics.

And similarly, to have influence not only on the moon but in cislunar space around it, it's going to demand permanent presence, a sustainable presence on the moon. That doesn't mean other people can't be with us, doesn't exclude the Chinese, but it does mean if we want to have a say in how space develops, we have to be there.

WHITFIELD: Yes. So we were all by the millions watching the launch and the splashdown. But what do you suppose China was observing and studying as all of these things were happening?

PACE: Again, great question. The -- I think one of the things that they're observing is, one, the kind of unity that the mission creates in a time, of course, of, you know, polarization. Many conflicts in our society space is a way of bringing people together where we can all, you know, take pride and satisfaction in what that crew was able to do.

I think the second thing they would observe is how the U.S. is learning to fly again. Again, we haven't gone beyond low Earth orbit since 1972. And so what you're seeing is a first, but still a major step in the U.S. learning to fly again.

WHITFIELD: And, and, I mean, this really is a kind of launch pad if you will to see about trying to eventually set some sort of stage, you know, building a base on the moon when these astronauts were taking pictures perhaps of the far side of the moon. How will that be used later to try to, you know, ascertain whether it's possible or what kind of structures could potentially be built, what kinds of materials would be needed, et cetera.

PACE: Yes. And absolutely. Before you build a house, you better understand the ground you're putting it on.

WHITFIELD: Right.

PACE: And be doing some survey work. And I think that's what NASA is doing with a whole series of newly announced of robotic missions that is commercial missions to send rovers and other experiments to the moon, the South Pole, but other locations as well. So robotics are going to figure very, very heavily in all this. So before we put people back on the moon, you're going to want to have a strong robotic survey, strong sampling.

We have pretty good maps, but we still need, I think, better information about what the surface is like before we start building.

WHITFIELD: All right. Scott Pace of George Washington University, thank you so much. Great having you.

PACE: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: And of course, we're expecting to hear from the four astronauts within the next hour. And of course, we'll bring that to you live as it happens. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:57:53]

WHITFIELD: All right. Now to a sneak preview of the brand new CNN series starring Eva Longoria, "SEARCHING FOR FRANCE."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

EVA LONGORIA, CNN HOST, "EVA LONGORIA: SEARCHING FOR FRANCE": Sante.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Sante. So the first episode is Paris.

LONGORIA: All the regions are kind of represented in Paris. So the cuisine in Paris is pretty eclectic.

BERMAN: And we're in Chez Josephine in New York.

LONGORIA: Yes.

BERMAN: Named after Josephine Baker.

LONGORIA: Josephine Baker is a hero to the French people. We actually visited a brasserie where she frequented, and she was just the life of the party, but also very politically active.

BERMAN: She would want us to eat.

LONGORIA: She would. This is a staple in brasseries. French onion soup. You pick a good brasserie to go to, they should do this, right? Of course, it's topped with this gruyere cheese.

BERMAN: Sometimes I like to eat all the cheese first.

LONGORIA: Do you?

BERMAN: But it's not very graceful. So tell me about croque monsieur. You went to Belleville.

LONGORIA: Belleville. Yes. BERMAN: Belleville. My French is very bad. I got a D in French in high

school. You laugh. It wasn't funny at the time, but thank you.

LONGORIA: We were in Belleville, in a little cafe that really served the traditional type of croque monsieur. The croque monsieur was actually popularized by the working class citizen and Belleville was an immigrant community.

We went to a Michelin star restaurant that kind of turned it on its head and did an Asian inspired version of a croque madame. So instead of just bread, he did a shrimp toast. It was so good, so delicious. But that's kind of the beauty of Paris is you have all of these other cultural influences.

BERMAN: What did you think Croque Madame was named after before you did the show?

LONGORIA: Croque Madame has an egg on the top.

BERMAN: Yes.

LONGORIA: And I thought it was Croque Madame, which is the female version of croque monsieur, because I thought that was a boob.

BERMAN: It turns out no.

LONGORIA: No.

BERMAN: You did a whole show on patisserie.

LONGORIA: A whole episode. Patisserie makes all of the desserts and these beautiful artisanal, insane creations. The interesting thing about the macaroon is the way it is today was not how it arrived in France. Catherine de Medici brought this really light cookie to France, and it evolved into the two layered dessert that we know today.

BERMAN: And these are profiterole?

LONGORIA: Yes, this is delicious. This is a staple in France.

BERMAN: Tell me about the boulangerie.