Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Trump Casts Doubt On Iran's Latest Proposal; Pentagon: U.S. Withdrawing 5,000 Troops From Germany; Spirit Passengers Scramble After Abrupt Operational Shutdown; Trump Considers War Powers Deadline "Totally Unconstitutional"; Iran: Renewed Conflict "Possible" As Trump Rejects Latest Proposal; Fight Over Online Access To Abortion Pill Reaches Supreme Court In Emergency Appeal; UAE Withdraws From OPEC In Blow To Oil Cartel. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired May 02, 2026 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:00:32]

JESSICA DEAN, CNN ANCHOR: You're in the CNN NEWSROOM. Hi, everyone. I'm Jessica Dean here in New York.

And new tonight, Iran signaling it is preparing for the possibility of renewed conflict with the U.S. after President Trump rejected the latest proposal from Tehran to end the war.

The president saying the U.S. may be, in his words, better off if no deal is reached. The administration now increasing pressure on the Strait of Hormuz, warning any shipping companies paying tolls to pass through that strait could themselves face sanctions.

Roughly 20 percent of the global oil supply previously passed through that waterway, which has essentially been paralyzed in this war.

And tonight, we have seen, as Betsy Klein, who's traveling with the president in Florida; we also have Nic Robertson in Islamabad, Pakistan.

Let's start first with you, Nic, and what reaction you're getting to this latest development -- the president rejecting the latest offer from Iran.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, he said that he wasn't satisfied with it. But what I'm hearing in Islamabad is that there is still diplomacy underway.

So it does seem that there is an opportunity to kind of bridge the gaps again. And this is very, very typical of Iran to literally at the last minute. And really Friday was the sort of understood to be a deadline, whereby if Iran didn't come up with a new proposal by then, it really moved the reality of a return to war. Made it -- made it much more potentially real and imminent.

So this is -- Iran is very good at sort of just giving enough to prevent, let's say, a return to war and to keep the United States engaged in conversation.

Now, what level of engagement there is, we don't know. But what we are hearing from the Iranians, one of their -- at least one of their state media channels is reporting that Iran had put forward a 14-point proposal.

These -- this proposal is shrouded in huge secrecy. Neither the Iranians are giving details, nor are any details seem to be leaking from the White House and certainly not here with the -- with the mediators.

But one thing that is becoming clear about what Iran is putting into play here, and we got this from a meeting with a senior Iranian official. He said, how do we move things forward. And then answered the question for himself, saying, if we had simultaneous ending of the blockade of the Strait of Hormuz, that would open the door to beginning to have a conversation.

And then he said, but who's going to guarantee that if we pull out or stand down, that the U.S. Navy doesn't move in and take control of the Strait of Hormuz?

So it really appears as if the Iranians are intending some kind of conditionality around whatever might be agreed to get the talks going around the Strait of Hormuz.

And we're getting a really clear sense of that from the Iranian government today. In parliament, they are moving forward in a law that would give Iran more administration rights, legal rights in their mind, of course, over the Strait of Hormuz, whereby they would deny any Israeli linked vessel access to the Strait of Hormuz and would impose significant costs and charges on any U.S. vessel, U.S.-related vessel and any country that was allied with the United States. And they would they would sort of call that for war reparations.

So it does seem that the Strait of Hormuz is going to become a key issue at the beginning of this.

And of course, as we were saying, President Trump dissatisfied the level of engagement isn't clear, but very typical of Iran to kind of slow roll this and do just enough to avoid an escalation, although, as you said, spokesman at their military headquarters in Tehran saying very clearly they are ready in case of war, Jessica.

DEAN: Ok. Really laying it out there. Nic, thank you.

I do want to go to Betsy. And Betsy. as all of this is going on, there's also been this back and forth between President Trump and Germany's chancellor that has escalated and now the Pentagon is withdrawing troops from there. So walk us through what's happening with that.

BETSY KLEIN, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Well, Jessica, the long- simmering tensions between President Trump and the NATO alliance are really at the heart of this, dating back to the president's 2016 campaign, where he was very critical of the alliance. [17:04:50]

KLEIN: In his view, the U.S. is providing a disproportionate amount of military spending, and other nations are not doing their fair share.

But the war with Iran has just intensified that disconnect between the U.S. and its European allies, as they have refused to get directly involved.

And we've heard some very strong criticism from German chancellor Friedrich Merz. He says that the Trump administration does not have an effective strategy to end this war.

President Trump, responding during the week saying that the U.S. would be conducting a review of its military posture in Germany.

And just for some context here, there are about 36,000 active-duty U.S. troops in Germany. That is, for staging and logistical purposes. Germany, also home to the biggest U.S. military hospital outside of the United States.

But we heard from Pentagon spokesperson Sean Parnell on Friday. He says, quote, "The Secretary of War has ordered the withdrawal of approximately 5,000 troops from Germany. This decision follows a thorough review of the department's force posture in Europe and is in recognition of the theater requirements and conditions on the ground. We expect this withdrawal to be completed over the next 6 or 12 months."

Now, of course, that is sending a very clear signal to Merz and Germany and other European allies. But this has prompted some very rare pushback from the Senate and House leaders of the Armed Services Committees -- Senator Roger Wicker, along with Congressman Mike Rogers.

They say in a rare joint statement quote, "We are very concerned by the decision to withdraw a U.S. brigade from Germany."

They go on to say that "prematurely reducing Americas forward presence in Europe risks undermining deterrence and sending the wrong signal to Vladimir Putin. Rather than withdrawing forces from the continent altogether, it is in America's interest to maintain a strong deterrent in Europe by moving these 5,000 U.S. forces to the east.

All of this, as the president has rejected Iran's latest peace proposal and says that it may be in the U.S. best interest not to eventually have a deal.

Of course, all of this continues to put the squeeze on American consumers. Gas prices up to a national average of $4.43 per gallon, according to the latest estimate from AAA, Jessica.

DEAN: Yes. Very interesting and worth, as you say, Wicker and Rogers, both Republicans pushing back on President Trump there.

Betsy Klein, thank you to you and to Nic Robertson. We appreciate both of you.

We are joined now by CNN political and global affairs analyst and Axios correspondent Barak Ravid.

Barak, it's always great to have you.

So we have these pieces that Nic and Betsy just laid out for us. What is your sense of where things stand tonight when it comes to this war with Iran?

BARAK RAVID, CNN POLITICAL AND GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: So first, I think that the Iranian response, this 14-point document, at least as far as I know, is not going to stop a possible escalation. I think if anything, it could lead to an escalation. I don't think that the Iranian response is, from what I hear from U.S. officials, I don't get the sense that there was anything in this response that addresses the U.S. concerns, especially when it comes to Iran's nuclear program.

President Trump has told me personally he's not going to lift the blockade only to get the Strait of Hormuz open. He will only lift the blockade for a comprehensive deal that includes addressing U.S. concerns about Iran's enrichment of uranium and uranium stockpiles.

So I don't think we will see in the next few days -- or I'll be more careful maybe -- I would be highly surprised if we will be any -- if we will see any serious diplomatic progress in the next few days. I think we are much closer to the opposite scenario of an escalation on the ground.

DEAN: That was what I wanted to ask you, was what your sense is of the chances of this escalating. So it sounds like you think that is a very real possibility.

RAVID: Yes. I think just five minutes ago, the U.S. military Central Command published photos of CentCom commander, Admiral Brad Cooper in an unannounced visit to the forces in the Arabian Sea. Admiral Cooper just on Thursday evening met with President Trump to brief him on operational plans for possible military action against Iran.

And from the White House, he went to the Middle East and met with the U.S. soldiers on the USS Tripoli.

[17:09:44]

RAVID: The USS Tripoli is a part of the Special Marines Expeditionary Unit that is tasked at, you know, sort of operations that could be implemented in the Strait of Hormuz.

So I think this visit by CentCom commander to the region, I think gives us a sense where the U.S. might be going.

DEAN: Right. It's not an accident that those photos are being released and that that information is out there in the public domain. That's very intentional, I'm sure.

What is your sense of -- I know you speak to -- have spoken to the president a number of times around this conflict, around this war. What is your sense of where his head is right now?

RAVID: I think the President Trump really wanted to get a deal with Iran. He still does. He wants to get a deal because I think he feels that militarily, most of the objectives have been achieved.

And therefore, if he can solve the nuclear issue through diplomacy, through getting some sort of a deal with Iran, that's his preferred choice.

And again, I heard it from him directly several times. And I heard this from his people, and I heard it from the mediators.

The only problem is that at the moment, Iran is not ready to seriously discuss its military, its nuclear program. It's not ready to seriously discuss long term suspension of uranium enrichment. It is not ready to seriously discuss removing the stockpile of highly-enriched uranium -- 450 kilograms of 60 percent enriched uranium, removing it from the country.

That's the situation. And because of that, I don't see any way to break this logjam at the moment through diplomacy.

And I don't think President Trump is going to back down, meaning he's not going to say, ok, I can't solve this nuclear issue through diplomacy. so I will just tell the forces, let's go home.

It's not what's going to happen. Which leaves at the moment, only the military option on the table. And although I don't think this is the preferred option for Trump, I think the current situation is that the diplomatic path is pretty blocked.

DEAN: Ok. Well, there you have it.

Barak Ravid good to have you. Thank you so much.

RAVID: Thank you.

DEAN: After more than three decades, Spirit Airlines is now out of business. Going out of business overnight and leaving passengers stranded at airports as the company immediately halted flights.

We are live from the busiest airport in the world. That's next.

And later, gas prices nearing record levels just as a busy summer travel season is about to get underway.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

[17:12:40]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DIAMOND: Tonight, Spirit Airlines is no more. The company shutting down operations today, abruptly canceling all upcoming flights, stranding customers nationwide and advising them to rebook tickets on different airlines. CNN spoke to passengers at New York's LaGuardia airport, who say they were caught off guard by the shutdown.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALEXANDRA MERINO, TRAVELING TO FLORIDA: I just got here and the people that were standing here just said, there's no flights. Spirit went out of business.

DANNY NUNEZ, TRAVELING TO ORLANDO: I saw the notices, didn't really think about it, walked right by then. And I went to the kiosk and I typed in my information and they're like, oh yes, your flight has been canceled. Find an agent.

So I was looking for an agent. They were like, there's no agent. There's no customer service.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: CNN national correspondent Rafael Romo is joining us now from Atlanta's Hartsfield-Jackson International Airport. You're there in front of what was the Spirit check-in desk, it looks like, Rafael. What are people there telling you?

RAFAEL ROMO, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Jessica, it's a surreal situation for those of us who have covered the airport for a long time. Normally, this is a very busy area. Now look at it behind me. Just empty.

And Jessica, passengers' attitude -- attitudes about what's happening with the shuttering of Spirit Airlines can be described with one word "confusion".

When we got to the Spirit Airlines ticket counter in Atlanta this morning, the area was cordoned off. Signs that normally direct passenger traffic were set up as barriers and screens had a message for passengers saying the following.

And here, I quote, "we regret to inform you that Spirit Airlines has ceased global operations. All spirit flights have been canceled and customer service is no longer available. It has been our honor to bring friends and families closer together for 34 years."

This decision will put 17,000 workers out of a job, including 14,000 spirit employees and thousands of contractors and other people whose jobs depend on Spirit and its operations at multiple airports around the country.

Spirit Airlines' demise has stranded thousands of passengers who have to adjust plans, and perhaps millions who have tickets for future dates. Customers have been instructed not to come to the airport. And that's probably the reason why we haven't seen any people here in the last few hours.

Those who booked directly through the airline with a credit or debit card will be issued refunds and have been instructed to rebook travel on other carriers, including JetBlue, Southwest, Delta and United Airlines, all of which have announced they are offering lower cost rescue fares so that Spirit customers can rebook flights.

Earlier today, U.S. Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy said some last-minute efforts intended to save the airline were ultimately unsuccessful

[17:19:51]

SEAN DUFFY, U.S. TRANSPORTATION SECRETARY: The president was like a dog on a bone trying to figure out a way to keep Spirit afloat. He was concerned about the employees of Spirit. I was in the Oval many times, hearing him talk about the employees and the customers.

In the end, this was a creditor issue. Again, they have the final say of whether they want to do a deal with the government. but also from the governments perspective, we oftentimes don't have a half-a-billion laying around in a spare account that we can put into a bailout of an airline.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROMO: Jessica, let's remember that Spirit filed for Chapter 11 Bankruptcy Protection in November 2024, but then emerged from it in March of the following year 2025, only to file again five months later.

In February, the airline was able to reach a deal with its creditors to move forward, but then fuel prices surged and ultimately contributed to its demise.

Finally, Spirit is the first significant U.S. airline in nearly 25 years to go out of business because of financial problems, Jessica.

DEAN: All right. Rafael Romo from Atlanta. Thank you so much for that reporting. We appreciate it.

CNN political analyst and "New York Times" White House correspondent Zolan Kanno-Youngs is joining us now. Zolan, it's always great to have you here on the show. We appreciate your time on a Saturday afternoon.

I do want to start there with Spirit Airlines for just a second just because the president had really inserted himself in that conversation, and there was a lot of back and forth about whether or not the government would step in. Ultimately, they didn't obviously.

What was his thinking and the administration's thinking around that?

ZOLAN KANNO-YOUNGS, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, you heard the Secretary of Transportation, Sean Duffy, talking about it there, right. There was this last-ditch effort by the Trump administration to try and provide a lifeline to Spirit Airlines, around $500 million lifeline to Spirit Airlines.

But that also would come with a catch. The administration, the United States would have about a 90 percent stake then in Spirit Airlines. This appeared to push away some of the investors into Spirit Airlines

who were concerned that if the company still failed, they would be in an even worse position than they were in now.

There were also some messy politics around this, right. Some Republican lawmakers were not high on the administration providing what they described as essentially a bailout to this airline.

But of course, you did have a White House and a president that was concerned about the potential job losses that would come with the shutting down of this airline, anxious customers, frustrated customers as well that are arriving to an airport not knowing if they have a flight.

And then, Jessica, remember, it's only been a short time since we saw long lines at airports as a result of the government shutdown that resulted in a lot of TSA workers not being able to work as well or not getting paid. And as a result, not being able to work.

Remember those photos of those long lines -- that caused headaches as well and anxiety in the White House about the potential political ramifications of frustration around air travel in the United States. There was concern that this would compound that.

You had that last-ditch effort to provide a lifeline, but we didn't see it come to fruition.

DEAN: Yes. And then following a playbook, we see often, moving to blame it on the Biden administration because the DOJ blocked that merger with JetBlue about, you know, a couple of years ago.

I do want to talk to you too, about Iran because the president has now told Congress officially he doesn't need congressional approval because this war is now in a ceasefire thus, the 60 days is not -- we haven't reached 60 days.

Is this going to work with Congress? What is your sense of his support on this on the Hill?

KANNO-YOUNGS: Yes. It's tough to get a full assessment of the entire party at this point. On one hand, you have a Republican Party that in general has sort of ceded its authority and its responsibility of being a check on the executive branch to the White House.

But on the other hand, there were some Republicans that appeared to be balking at this argument here that essentially because the administration reached a ceasefire with Iran, that the clock essentially stops on this statutory deadline.

You had -- already the patience of Republicans was waning when it came to this war, and they were pointing to this deadline.

You had Senator Susan Collins voting with Democrats this week on a failed resolution. You also had Lisa Murkowski as well, criticizing, this move.

[17:24:44]

KANNO-YOUNGS: Senator Josh Hawley as well, questioning whether this was -- questioning this argument and saying that he wanted this war to wind down at this point.

So I would expect that were going to continue to see some of that questioning come from Republicans in Congress when it comes to this argument.

Even when you saw Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth initially lay out this argument, Republicans were questioning it and pushing back.

So I think you're going to see that scrutiny continue, particularly since up until now, yes, Republican leadership and the Republican Party has supported this military operation. But they also pointed to this deadline while they were doing it. And now you have the administration essentially dismissing this deadline.

DEAN: No, they sure did. And it does kind of put them on a clock to say, ok, is this actually a thing, a deadline you're going to hold up and try to push back on or not. And we are going to see.

Zolan, it's great to see you. Zolan Kanno-Youngs, thanks so much.

KANNO-YOUNGS: Great to see you as well. Thanks.

DEAN: We have a new warning from Tehran with an official there saying that a renewed conflict with the U.S. is possible after President Trump rejected this latest peace proposal from Iran. What this means for the war. That's next.

[17:25:56]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:30:24]

DEAN: A senior Iranian official warns renewed conflict with the U.S. is "possible". Following President Trump's comments, he is unsatisfied with Tehran's latest peace proposal aimed at ending the war.

We are joined now by retired U.S. Army Lieutenant General Karen Gibson. She is a senior associate in the intelligence, national security, and technology program at the Center for Strategic and International Studies.

Thank you so much for being here with us. We really, really appreciate it.

As we have talked about in the last half hour here, the president has said he's not satisfied with this latest proposal from Iran. He has suggested that the U.S. could be, in his words, better off not making a deal at all. How serious -- how much of a possibility do you think it is that we return to fighting in this war, and where do you think we go from here? LT. GEN. KAREN GIBSON (RET.) UNITED STATES ARMY: Well, I certainly wouldn't rule it out, but I think we have already struck some of the most meaningful military targets. If we started to fire again, it would probably be elements that they have either reconstituted or that managed to escape the first strikes.

And even with Iran, you know, throughout this campaign, actions haven't always matched the bellicose rhetoric. I would not expect Iran to attack first. I don't think that's in their interest, given the overwhelming firepower that the U.S. Air Force and Navy have. I think at most, I would expect to see Iran challenge the blockade or perhaps seize some ships.

But I think it's really up to the president whether or not the cease fire ends. It's not in Iran's interests to end the cease fire.

DEAN: Right. And if you're the president, if you're kind of advising him, what would you be saying? OK. Now, you take this all in. What do you think? You know, what would you advise him to now do?

GIBSON: So, I haven't seen, I don't think it's public, what the latest Iranian proposal was. But the fact that the president is dissatisfied would lead me to believe that it's either not very different from their last proposal, or it's not different enough. And in their last proposal, they sought to decouple the maritime and economic issues from the nuclear issue, which is really most important to us. They wanted to, let's deal with the strait first and the blockade, and then, let's address the nuclear issues.

If we agreed to that, and I could understand why he would not. If we agreed to that, we would both be easing the economic pressure on them, as well as the military pressure that comes with the cease fire, and then, allow them to drag out, perhaps, for a very long period of time, discussions about their nuclear program.

I think, in terms of the blockade, tactically, it seems to be working. I haven't checked the figures in a couple of days, but CENTCOM had seized over 40 vessels or caused them to turn back, I should say, not seizing them.

But strategically, it's going to take time to see how this unfolds. It's not a kill switch, but it does exacerbate and frustrate some of the already existing economic insecurities within Iran. It will take time to see if it's effective, and it remains to be seen whether we'll have the patience or the political fortitude to wait to see that, that happens.

DEAN: Yes, that's the big question. Everybody I'm talking to, obviously, you, as well, as -- is what is the appetite for that? How much patience does the U.S. have versus how much patience does Iran have? I do want to ask you, with your military background.

We were talking with Barak Ravid, one of our contributors, earlier in the show, and he mentioned these images that CENTCOM has published of leaders visiting troops, and it's all very public as they move assets into different places. That's not -- that's not on accident. That's on purpose. Right? You are making a statement, saying we are here, and we are prepared and poised to act if needed, I would assume.

GIBSON: Yes. And certainly, the ability to continue strikes or to recommence those is absolutely an option that the president will keep in mind. It's not something you would rule out in the future. And it's both the economic and the military sticks and coercive pressure that have to be applied to get Iran to make additional concessions at the negotiating table.

I think, at the end of the day, whether it's an economic blockade or other measures, or whether it's strikes against infrastructure in Iran, it's all about getting them to make concessions at the negotiating table and to make commitments that they would not pursue a nuclear weapon. That has to be the ultimate aim.

DEAN: And ho2 -- right. And how likely do you think that is? We have been at this kind of stalemate, let's call it for a bit now and it's -- other people have described it to me as kind of a game of chicken, like we were just talking about. Who is going to blink first, who runs out of patience? Is that how you would -- you see it also?

[17:35;03]

GIBSON: I think that's fair. I don't think a deal is imminent. And the image that comes to mind for me is two opponents that each have their hands on each other's economic neck or jugular. You know, Iran has always sought. Their strategy has been to make this campaign so politically and economically untenable for us, that we decide we have had enough. And that's what they are counting on. That we would run out of patience, and that we would not be willing to withstand disruptions to the global economy.

We, on the other hand, are trying to force their hand economically as well. But throughout history, the Islamic Republic has shown incredible resilience in both absorbing the shock of punishing airstrikes as well as economically, whether it was the Iran-Iraq War, which went on for eight years, the pre-JCPOA sanctions, or Trump one max pressure campaign. They are very resilient and have quite an ability to absorb pain. I think this will require a lot of patients.

DEAN: All right. Lieutenant General Karen Gibson, thanks so much for your time. We appreciate it.

GIBSON: -- Jessica.

DEAN: The abortion pill flight returns to the Supreme Court. What this could mean for online access to a widely used pill.

You are in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:40:55]

DEAN: The makers of the abortion pill, Mifepristone have filed an emergency appeal at the Supreme Court. They are urging the justices to pause a lower court ruling that temporarily blocked Americans from accessing that drug through the mail.

The rush appeal comes after the Fifth U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals reinstated a nationwide requirement the medication be obtained in person.

Let's bring in CNNs. Camila DeChalus, who joins us now. What more can you tell us about this?

CAMILA DECHALUS, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Well, Jessica, this is quickly turning into a major, major legal battle over abortion rights.

Now, the manufacturer of the abortion pill, Mifepristone, they just filed an emergency appeal to the Supreme Court.

And let me tell you why this is really significant. They are essentially asking the justices to step in and pause a lower court ruling for now that really blocks patients and Americans from receiving this abortion pill through mail.

Now, this appeal comes just a day after the Fifth U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals reinstated a nationwide ban that prohibited Americans from being able to access the abortion pill, and only being able to access it if they pick it up in person.

Now, critics of this ruling, they really argue that this could present significant limitations for people's ability to access an abortion pill, and would create additional hurdles for patients.

However, others that are in support of this are really arguing that it's more about establishing tighter like safety controls around this medication.

Now, in the appeal, it's important to note that attorney for the manufacturer, they wrote, "What should a patient do if she cannot obtain an in-person appointment immediately? And this really just encapsulates their argument here, and that is that they believe that due to this lower court ruling, it's going to present significant negative ramifications for those that need it the most, especially since it's coming and it's creating these hurdles.

Now, at this point in time, it's really up to the Supreme Court on whether they are going to act in any moment. But this is really putting additional pressure and really broadening just a legal fight that's continuing around abortion rights.

DEAN: All right. Camilla DeChalus, with the very latest. Thank you so much for that. We really appreciate it.

A former Florida Congressman has been convicted of illegally lobbying for Venezuela between 2017 and 2018 in connection with a $50 million contract.

David Rivera has been found guilty on all counts, including money laundering. That trial included testimony from his close friend and political ally, Secretary of State Marco Rubio. Rivera's attorneys do plan to appeal. Tennessee and Alabama now taking steps to draw new congressional maps. The Republican governors in both of those states announcing special legislative sessions next week in the move coming after that landmark Supreme Court decision on the Voting Rights Act, which will make it harder for voters of color to challenge redistricting plans. And as we see a whole redistricting fight playing out all across the country, leading up to these midterms in November.

Gas prices continue to rise as the war with Iran lingers on. How much higher will they go? How much longer will this last? We'll discuss that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:48:46]

DEAN: The war with Iran is pushing us gas prices to their highest level in nearly four years. According to AAA, the national average for a gallon is now $4.43.

Now, that is up $0.35 in the last week. It's $1.45 higher than when this war started.

Let's talk now with Bob McNally, president and founder of Rapidan Energy Group.

Bob, thanks so much. He also served as a White House energy advisor to President George W. Bush, and wrote the book, "Crude Volatility: The History and the Future of Boom-Bust Oil Prices".

Bob, good to see you. We meet again. Prices up yet again, and here we are. And so, where do you see things going from here? What should our viewers here in the U.S. expect?

BOB MCNALLY, FOUNDER AND PRESIDENT, RAPIDAN ENERGY GROUP: Jessica, good to be with you. And I won't be offended if you don't have me back, because I don't have good news, unfortunately.

Look, the price we pay at the pump follows the global crude oil price more or less with a several week lag. And global crude oil prices are heading higher, and I expect they will continue to head higher this month. That means that it's even now increasingly likely we will flirt with, if not make, an all-time high in terms of the average pump price of gasoline. Regular was $5 a gallon reached in 2022.

[17:50:07]

I think, unfortunately, as we get to Memorial Day, or certainly by Fourth of July, the way things are going, we will see those levels.

DEAN: Wow. And that's -- listen, that's real -- that's a real shift. And it's a real it's a real thing that the American consumer has to absorb, and likely will have to absorb for some time.

MCNALLY: It is. It's like a sudden tax increase that you can't avoid. You know, if Chipotle gets expensive or vacations get expensive, you cannot do it. Or if chicken is expensive, you can buy beef, but gasoline you have to drive. Right? And so, it's something you just got to pay the price for. So, it's like a tax that gets imposed. It's no fun at all.

I think the president is right. If and when this conflict ends, there is every likelihood the price will tumble. But on the way up, it's just no fun. Especially, as we go into summer, where we see folks planning on vacations, taking vacations, and that demand for gasoline and diesel fuel rising seasonally.

So, it's a -- it's tough for consumers to take this. It really is.

DEAN: Yes, and the president -- you kind of mentioned this, but the president has said, in his words, that he believes gas prices will drop like a rock as soon as this war with is over. We obviously don't know when that's going to be, but put that to the side, do you agree with that assessment that as soon as this is over, the prices will drop immediately?

MCNALLY: Yes, I think if the war ends and without major damage to infrastructure, that's the big caveat. So far, we haven't had major infrastructure damage. Terminals --

(CROSSTALK)

DEAN: In the Middle East, you are talking about.

MCNALLY: In the Middle East, I mean.

DEAN: Ye.

MCNALLY: That's right. But if we open up Hormuz fully, not under Iranian control. Full opening of Hormuz, no major infrastructure damage, I think you'll see oil prices far fall sharply. Will they go all the way back to where they were before the conflict? I'm not so sure. We likely have removed a lot of supply that will be permanent, folks will be wanting to refill inventories, including strategic inventories. So, it may not go all the way back to under $3 a gallon, but I think you'll see a sharp drop in relief once this is over.

DEAN: Once we get to that point. OK.

I also want to ask you, obviously, part of this is -- are the high jet fuel costs as well. We know that that was a piece of the puzzle, kind of a final blow to Spirit Airlines, although there was a lot -- a lot more happening with them as well. But in terms of just the impact that these jet fuel prices could have and how those could stay elevated for sometimes, what are the implications of that particular sector?

MCNALLY: There are real gut punch for the airlines, especially those that don't hedge, and many do not, or they don't fully -- and in a way, of all the refined products of gasoline, diesel fuel, jet fuel was the hardest hit. It's the one that we tend to keep in lowest inventory at these airports. And especially, Europe, depends a lot on imports, the Asia and so forth. And so, it's the fuel that ran out the fastest, and for which the price jumped the fastest. And this just took -- look, we just talked about, motorists are being taken by surprise. Well, airlines, it's even a bigger shock and a bigger surprise. And if they haven't edged, if they haven't protected themselves against those types of price increases, it's going to come right out of the bottom line.

We are seeing airlines cancel flights, what we call demand reduction. They are just canceling unprofitable flights, even the ones that are still in operation. So, the trauma is biggest in the airline sector, and Spirit is perhaps, one manifestation of that.

DEAN: Right. I also, lastly, want to ask you about the fact that the UAE, one of the world's largest oil producers, officially withdrew from OPEC yesterday. What does that -- what does that mean for all of us here in the U.S. and for the oil market?

(CROSSTALK)

MCNALLY: Yes, nothing much, Jessica.

Yes. Nothing much near term. Look, a UAE was unhappily married to OPEC, if you will, for a while, and they just decided to bolt now that they have a supply emergency. This won't really be an issue for years down the road, when we have a surplus of oil. We have the opposite right now, and we need that OPEC Plus to do the stabilizing job.

I mean, it hurts a little bit the cohesion of OPEC, but Saudi Arabia is going to go ahead. Russia is going to go ahead. So, it was not too surprising for those of us who watch this. Again, UAE was not happy, but I think OPEC Plus will continue, and it's not too much of a big deal, honestly.

DEAN: All right. Bob McNally, good to see you. Thank you for always shooting us straight here, whether or not the good -- the news is good or not, but thank you so much.

MCNALLY: Thank you, Jessica.

DEAN: And still ahead here in the CNN NEWSROOM, Spirit Airlines, as we just mentioned, shutting down, leaving travelers scrambling for other options. We are going to hear from some of those passengers ahead.

And tomorrow night, a new CNN FlashDocs, giving us a special look at the career of one of the most powerful people in fashion, Anna Wintour. Here is a preview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There have been some social media posts about what you wear and your style.

[17:55:03]

Some people saying it's too casual. And some of these you have shared. Do you look at those things? How do you react to that? CHLOE MALLE, HEAD OF EDITORIAL CONTENT, VOGUE: I do have a Google alert for my name. So, I do see when things come up. I like to know what's out there, but I'm not. I'm certainly not reading comments because I think that's a dark place. But yes, I dress different than Anna does, and maybe that's confusing for people. But I like getting dressed, and I've always been pretty consistent in the way I dress, and so, I plan to continue.

The fact that, that leans a bit towards if Katharine Hepburn was a librarian, is just something people are going to have to deal with.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is someone say that?

MALLE: No, but I like that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK.

MALLE: It's my dream.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There was a piece on Substack that someone wrote saying that Anna was staging a style intervention for you. Is there any truth to that?

MALLE: There is not, but I'm happy to take advice from Anna.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. Well, she knows what she is talking about.

MALLE: Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: And that's Chloe Malle there, who is has taken over for Anna Wintour at Vogue magazine, talking about the woman behind the Bob. The CNN special "BEHIND THE BOB: VOGUE'S ANNA WINTOUR" airs tomorrow night at 8:00 p.m. Eastern Pacific, only here on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)