Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Iran Says U.S. Responds To Tehran's Proposal And Reply Is Under Review; Rising Costs Fueling Stress Ahead Of Summer Travel Season; Red States Racing To Redraw Maps After Supreme Court Ruling. Demining Becomes Risky And Painstaking Job In Ukraine; Dems Divided After Platner Becomes Frontrunner In Maine Senate Race; Political Groups Compete For Influence On College Campuses; Protests Grow As Data Center Projects Spread Across U.S. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired May 03, 2026 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:00]

WILLIAM NORWICH, FORMER VOGUE EDITOR: Oh, I loved it. I mean, a lot of the world is like being in an open classroom in a school where anything goes. but with Anna, you always knew what you were doing. She was incredibly available. She was there in the office unless she was traveling from 8:30 to 6:00. And it was just very organized. And some people thrive, I thrive in an organization like that.

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN ANCHOR: You know, Billy, I can't help but just looking at you here. And if I squint my eyes slightly, the bald head, the glasses, I see Stanley Tucci, I see it, and many say you were the inspiration, of course, for Stanley Tucci's character in the famous movie "Devil Wears Prada."

And I just wonder, what is it like to watch the movie and see so many, at the very least, reflections of your time at Vogue?

NORWICH: Oh, my god, it's a very -- both the original film and the sequel, which I've seen, and thank you for comparing me to Stanley Tucci. That's probably the nicest thing.

(CROSSTALK)

JIMENEZ: I figured, I figured it would work.

NORWICH: I hope my head isn't bigger than the screen right now. Listen, Vogue was a unique, privileged place to work to combine one's skills in my case editing, writing, enthusiasm, interest in culture, art, all the gracious living. And it was very rich. The movie, the first movie as like the book was very invasive. The -- in both cases, just the offices were exact, almost exact replicas of where we worked.

And we're not famous people, the people who work at Vogue, the editor is. And as a result, it felt really invasive, something, I mean, I'm sure many of your viewers who suddenly find themselves in the news. It's not easy. It's not easy, too. So it felt invasive. I'm glad the first movie was a huge success. And as a result, it ended up being good for Vogue and good for fashion. JIMENEZ: Yes. Billy Norwich, great to see you. And to see Stanley in

you as well. Maybe we'll do this the next time in Italy or something to match the vibe.

Billy, appreciate the time and perspective. And be sure to tune in --

NORWICH: Love to see you.

JIMENEZ: Of course. Be sure to tune in the CNN Flash Docs, "BEHIND THE BOB: VOGUE'S ANNA WINTOUR," tonight at 8:00 p.m. Eastern.

All right, everyone, welcome back. Thanks for joining me. I'm Omar Jimenez sitting in for Fredricka Whitfield.

We continue to follow breaking developments in the intensifying peace talks between the United States and Iran. Just moments ago, for example, President Trump's special envoy telling CNN the U.S. is, quote, "in conversation with Iran." That comment, coming shortly after a spokesperson for Iran's foreign minister said the U.S. has responded to their latest peace proposal and Tehran is now assessing Washington's reply.

For the very latest, let's bring in CNN's Betsy Klein, who is with the president in Florida.

So, Betsy, what more can you tell us about these negotiations?

BETSY KLEIN, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Omar, we are keeping a very close eye on all of the comings and goings at President Trump's Doral Golf Club. He is there right now in his personal viewing stand, observing the PGA Championship Golf tournament. And we are watching as top level officials are coming in and out of that tent. But after that stalemate over the last few weeks, it seems that the back and forth of trading proposals between the U.S. and Iran has picked back up.

Here is what we know. This at this time is incredibly fluid. But back on Friday, President Trump, as he departed the White House for Florida, told reporters that he was not happy with Iran's latest proposal. And in his view, it might be better off for the U.S. if a deal was not reached. Then on Saturday, as he left West Palm Beach, coming here to Doral, he told reporters that he had received a new 14- point proposal from Iran and would be reviewing it.

But as he was on that flight, the president posting on social media, really casting a lot of negativity on the prospects for a deal. He wrote, quote, "I can't imagine that it would be acceptable in that they have not yet paid a big enough price for what they have done to humanity."

Now it's not clear what the president is referring to, what kind of price would be acceptable to him. But now we are learning, according to a spokesperson for Iran's Foreign Ministry, that the U.S. has responded to that latest proposal, and Iran is now reviewing it.

Now, we do not know the exact substance of what was in that U.S. proposal. We are working to get more details on that. We have asked the White House for more information, but our colleague Peter Morris, who's over at the PGA Championship, spotted Steve Witkoff, the president's top negotiator and special envoy, as he was leaving the president's box.

[16:05:08]

He asked him for any updates on the state of those talks. Witkoff told him, quote, "We are in conversation," end quote, with the Iranians. He left and then returned to the president's box about 50 minutes later. He's still in there. So we'll see if the president or Witkoff addresses any of this as they depart a little bit later today.

But something else that's likely on the president's mind, those spiking gas prices up about 40 -- about 49.3 percent since the start of this war. Now at an average of $4.45 per gallon -- Omar.

JIMENEZ: Something we will be tracking very closely.

Betsy Klein, appreciate the reporting.

We've also got breaking news on the search for two missing U.S. service members in Northern Africa. U.S. Africa Command says the two went missing in Southwestern Morocco after taking part in scheduled multinational military exercises. The service members who were reported missing Saturday near a training area close to the city of Tan Tan. Now, a coordinated search is underway, on the ground, in the air and along the coast. But officials say the incident is under investigation. And we'll bring you more details as we get them.

Meanwhile, new data out from AAA brings more bad news for drivers. The national average for gas rose to $4.45 a gallon this weekend, which is an increase of about $0.35 from just last week. And with Iran war negotiations at an impasse right now, oil prices continue to climb above $100 a barrel on Friday. Still, the White House is confident that relief will come once the Strait of Hormuz reopens.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEAN DUFFY, TRANSPORTATION SECRETARY: Once the strait opens, you'll see prices come down, come down immediately. And again, there's going to be a tale to that. It's going to take time to get back to where we were before this conflict began. But you're going to see, I think, immediate relief once the strait opens.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JIMENEZ: Again, there's expected to be a delay in when prices come down once the strait reopens itself. But that is part of what CNN correspondent Gloria Pazmino has been monitoring, who joins us now.

You've been talking with drivers about these prices. And, again, these prices, it's going to take quite some time for them to come down regardless at this point. What are they saying?

GLORIA PAZMINO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Omar. You know, some of the drivers we've encountered today are actually directing their frustration at the administration, directly at President Trump, telling us that they are frustrated that they're having to pay the price of engaging in this conflict in the Middle East, something that they feel is not worthwhile.

I also spoke to a lot of cab drivers, taxi drivers here in New York City who have no choice but to fill up their tank. And they're very frustrated, right? They have to fill up the tank in order to make a living. I spoke to one guy who told me that even if he manages to break even, everything else is more expensive. So he's making money, but his dollar is just not going as far as it used to. Food is more expensive.

So there is a cycle and an effect that's happening here that's just not about gas prices, but about everything else. Another man told us that he sometimes works six and a seven-day a week in order to try and stay afloat.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ISMAHEL SOUMHORO, DRIVER: I mean, I gave it a hard time for the low income and -- low income and the poor people, including myself right now. Look, it was $4 something. And now the $5.43. So even if I go to the grocery now, it's very scary because before with the $10, you can have your lunch. But now everything.

PAZMINO: More expensive.

SOUMHORO: Everything more expensive.

JEFF OLSON, DRIVER: He got us getting involved in a stupid war.

PAZMINO: Yes.

OLSON: I think that's had a direct -- obviously a direct effect on the cost of everything here.

PAZMINO: Yes.

OLSON: You know, we're only like putting small amounts of gas in at a time in hopes that the prices are going to come down again soon, but --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PAZMINO: Now, Omar, let's break down the numbers like what they look like right now. The average gas price is hovering around $4.45 around the country. And it's going up depending on where you are. New York sees some of the highest prices. California has some of the highest prices. So $4.45, that's about a 0.35 increase in just the past week. And it's almost $1.50 more since the war started.

Let me bring you a little bit closer here to New York City. $4.45 a gallon for the regular. And if you're going to get the premium option, you're really going to feel it a lot more, $5.43. And Omar, you were talking about the beginning about the fact that the

administration is telling people that prices are going to drop as soon as the conflict ends. But as you pointed out, the Strait of Hormuz continues to be closed.

[16:10:02]

And most experts have warned that even if the conflict ends sometime soon, it's going to take a while for prices to come down and to stabilize again. So certainly a lot of frustration here. Also some perspective, you know, some drivers feel like it's going to go up. It's going to go down and they have to keep moving. Some of them told us that's what they're trying to do -- Omar.

JIMENEZ: Yes, life doesn't stop even with all these prices going up.

Gloria Pazmino, really appreciate it.

Coming up for us, a new challenge to Louisiana's suspension of the state's congressional primary. That suspension, a consequence of the Supreme Court's decision limiting the 1965 Voting Rights Act. We'll talk about it.

Plus, why communities across the country are concerned about the potential impacts of massive new data centers. And then CNN's Donie O'Sullivan takes a look at the fierce on-campus competition to win over young conservatives in the wake of Charlie Kirks death.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:15:36]

JIMENEZ: Civil rights groups have filed an emergency challenge to Louisiana's decision to suspend primary voting for U.S. House races as lawmakers rush to redraw congressional maps in that state.

Now, this follows the Supreme Court's ruling last week that further weakened the 1965 Voting Rights Act. The justices invalidated Louisiana's congressional map, calling it an unconstitutional gerrymander. They also made it harder to prove racial discrimination and redistricting maps.

I want to bring in Sophia Lin Lakin and she's the director of the ACLU's Voting Rights Project and a lead member of the litigation team.

Sophia, I just want to say thank you for joining us, but can you just tell us why your organization filed this emergency challenge to block Louisiana's effort to suspend the state's congressional primary?

SOPHIA LIN LAKIN, DIRECTOR, ACLU'S VOTING RIGHTS PROJECT: Yes, absolutely. You know, voting was already underway in these primary elections before the governor stepped in to try to remake the maps in light of the Callais decision. I think the numbers as of yesterday, there were about 80,000 ballots already cast in this election. And voters are incredibly confused. The people are calling this a nightmare, and it is truly a nightmare for both voters and election administrations. Complete chaos, confusion. At the end of the day, voters are going to lose out.

So we have tried to come in to stop this action because nobody wants this. Nobody wants voters to be left out in the cold, except for people who are trying to manipulate the maps. And again, on the backs of voters of color in this country.

JIMENEZ: And as you mentioned, early voting was scheduled to begin Saturday. Overseas ballots have already gone out. And I should also be clear, the primaries for other races will still move forward. We're talking about U.S. House races here. But what is the status of your legal challenge at this point, and are you confident you can win this in court, given what we've heard now from the Supreme Court on sort of the issue at hand?

LIN LAKIN: I want to go back to that, what you just said about other elections going forward, or at least not suspended by the governor's order just for a second, because that's partly what's causing confusion for voters. You should go out and vote and not be confused by what the governor is saying about the suspension of elections. There are still elections to vote in, no matter what the governor says.

Unfortunately, with respect to our current challenge in state court, the court denied our ask for a temporary restraining order to put the attempts to suspend the election on hold. We are evaluating obviously every single option. We are going to take a look at everything and at the end of the day, we're not going to stop fighting for Louisiana voters.

JIMENEZ: You know, when you sort of step back and look at this moment here, it comes at this time where I think it's fair to say there's a redistricting war going on between both sides. It started in Texas with President Trump's efforts there. You were one of the lead attorneys arguing this case in particular, the Louisiana one, before the Supreme Court, and several states appear to be following Louisiana's lead in making plans to redraw congressional maps.

And this is beyond what we're showing on the screen right now outside of Florida, that's also working on plans. But I just wonder if you believe this will dilute the power of minority voters in regards to Louisiana, and if so, what recourse do they have? Is the only option now for Congress to try and then rework the Voting Rights Act again?

LIN LAKIN: So absolutely. I mean, the concern here is that the Supreme Court eviscerated the primary tool to protect voters of color from this kind of dilution of their political power and now taking us back to the time before the Voting Rights Act. So bringing us back to the Jim Crow era of representation in this country. This is not a place that any of us should be happy to be in.

I don't want to -- I will not sugarcoat this. This is one of our strongest tools in our arsenal to fight back. There are other options that we are looking at and hoping to utilize in the days and weeks and months to come, including the U.S. Constitution itself, state constitutions, state voting rights act. But they all have limitations. You know, in each state, you have to go in state by state, see what's available to you there.

[16:20:01]

Obviously, the U.S. Constitution, those claims are very difficult to bring. And that is why we had Section Two of the Voting Rights Act, because it is hard to prove intentional discrimination, because it's so easy to hide. And that was the whole genius of Section Two of the Voting Rights Act that is now not really available to us except in, you know, the most extreme cases.

JIMENEZ: Well, Sophia Lin Lakin, I appreciate you taking the time and laying that out for us. Keep us posted as the legal process moves forward or any other recourse options because this likely won't be the last state where redistricting is either thought about or talked about, heading into the midterms and beyond. Thanks for being here.

LIN LAKIN: Thank you.

JIMENEZ: All right. Coming up, after four years of brutal war, Ukraine now holds a title no country wants. The most heavily mined place on earth. We'll give you an inside look at what it takes to clear vast stretches of deadly ground.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:25:25]

JIMENEZ: After more than four years of war, Ukraine is the most heavily mined place in the world. I'm talking landmines here, where large parts of the country are off limits because of the danger. Now, de-mining charity Halo Trust is using drones and A.I. to survey fields and woods for potential threats.

And as CNN's Isabel Rosales reports, clearing those mines is a risky and painstaking process.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ISABEL ROSALES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Step by step what, sweep by sweep, the slow and painstaking rhythm of mine clearance in Ukraine. Some 25 miles or 40 kilometers outside Kyiv, this team is working to make sure the fields and forests are safe from mines and other potential dangers. It's slow but critical work.

Since the start of Russia's full scale invasion in 2022, the United Nations says Ukraine has become the most heavily mined country in the world.

DMYTRO RAGULIA, HEAD OF OPERATIONS, THE HALO TRUST (through translator): Shotgun ammunition, various types of hand grenades, artillery shells, ranging in caliber from 30 to 120 millimeters. The level of contamination is extremely high. Honestly, I have not seen such a large concentration of explosive items in one place for a very long time.

ROSALES: According to the U.N., an estimated 20 percent of Ukraine's territory, an area larger than England and Wales combined, is now contaminated with mines and other unexploded ordnance. And experts with the Halo Trust, the world's largest humanitarian demining organization, say the process in Ukraine will take at least 10 years. That's time when fields will go unplanted, homes and businesses will remain in ruins, and people's livelihoods will continue to suffer.

Already, Ukraine is feeling the impacts. From human casualties, the U.N. says hundreds of civilians have been killed or wounded by landmines and other explosive material. To the rising economic toll, the U.N. estimates that the presence of landmines and other munitions is costing the country $11 billion a year.

While the scale of the demining project is vast, the Halo Trust says the same advances in technology that have transformed the battlefield are already helping to speed up their own process. The group has started using drones and A.I. to survey contaminated land and identify potential threats, technology Prince Harry was able to test out during a recent visit to Ukraine.

Elsewhere, the Halo Trust has turned to unmanned systems, like this remote controlled digger, which excavates soil littered with mine, then chews it up in a specialized grinder.

OLEKSANDR LUKASHEVICH, MECHANICAL DEMINING OPERATOR (through translator): With every explosive object found and with every detonation that takes place in the pit, it inspires and adds confidence that you are not in vain here, that you are helping the country, that you are cleaning the land and saving someone's life.

ROSALES: Despite the advances in technology, it's not suited to every task. That's when deminers rely on a more old-fashioned and more dangerous approach, removing the mines by hand.

OLHA KAVA, HALO TRUST DEMINER (through translator): Of course there is fear, but it does not hinder. But on the contrary, motivates you to do your job correctly and responsibly.

ROSALES: Isabel Rosales, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JIMENEZ: Isabel Rosales, appreciate the reporting.

Still ahead, the fight for political influence is heating up on college campuses across the country. Who's winning and how far are they willing to go to secure young voters?

Our Donie O'Sullivan went back to school to find out.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:33:29]

JIMENEZ: Today, a candidate with a checkered past is dividing Democrats in their uphill battle to retake the Senate. Graham Platner, a 41-year-old veteran, became the party's presumptive

Senate nominee in Maine after two-term Governor Janet Mills dropped out of the race. Platner, backed by some progressives like Senator Bernie Sanders, has sparked numerous controversies, including comments he made criticizing victims of rape and having a tattoo he has since covered that was widely seen as a Nazi symbol.

Some Democrats say those past actions are deeply troubling.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. DEBBIE DINGELL (D-MI): I was very upset as a woman who has dealt with domestic violence, grew up in a home and other sexual violence very upset by what his previous comments were. People are angry. People are upset. People want change in this country. And if you don't see people standing up to the president, then you see some of the results of what happened in Maine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JIMENEZ: I want to get some perspective now with Democratic strategist Antjuan Seawright.

Thanks for taking the time. Thanks for being here.

First, I just want to start. Is Platner good for Democrats?

ANTJUAN SEAWRIGHT, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, I think that's what the primary process will allow to be played out. Look, elections are determined by people and people will go out and express their either disappointment or their approval of him in the primary process, Omar.

I like to remind folks in the primary, you make a choice. In the general election, you're given a choice. Governor Mills, an extraordinary public servant who dedicated her life and her career to making the state of Maine and the people of that community better, she made a consequential decision to exit the race in order for what I think she believes that the next person in line is better suited to win a general election, and we should applaud her for that.

[16:35:18]

But at the same time, we should know that the differences we may appear to have amongst each other as Democrats in these primary elections do not compare to the differences we have with the Republicans, who are literally trying to take us back to a place that I don't think most of us want to be.

JIMENEZ: And that I think that that distinction you were talking about, obviously, it's played out in a number of races. We saw it in the New York City mayor's race. We've seen it in a bunch of other spots. But with this one in particular, Governor Mills, for example, was recruited into the Maine Senate race by current Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer. Now that she's out, is that harmful to someone like Schumer, especially as he eyes potentially becoming Senate majority leader? SEAWRIGHT: I don't think so at all. I don't think so at all, because

politics, much like life, is a game of addition and multiplication, not subtraction or division. What you want in a general election, you want to be able to put the best candidate who can garner the best resources and make the best case to a broad shouldered audience in order to win a general election.

No doubt, the Republican majority, led by Donald Trump, has created an unnecessary affordability crisis in this country. The country is going full steam backwards in places where, in my opinion, my sharecropping grandparents would have never expected being a loyal son of the south when it comes to voting rights. And we need the right voices at the table to ensure communities like mine and those across Maine are no longer on the menu, but instead have voices at the table that will advocate for them.

JIMENEZ: Let's talk about Michigan a little bit, because Democratic Senate candidate Mallory McMorrow is, you know, she's in some hot water of her own after an investigation by CNN's KFILE revealed she deleted old social media posts criticizing the rural Midwest and praising California. She defended some of her record earlier.

Just this is what she had to say to CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MALLORY MCMORROW (D), MICHIGAN SENATE CANDIDATE: I am not somebody who wanted to be in office or wanted to be in Congress when I was in diapers, I started my career as a car designer, and then I worked in a very different career and wasn't thinking about it. I tweeted normal things like a normal person and people are desperate for authenticity.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JIMENEZ: I want to ask you about that last line, because that's what seems to be the battle right now sort of authenticity and maybe messing up or not being perfect, rough around the edges in the time of today versus a time where I think some thought everything had to check out in every single way.

And I just wonder how you compare the Maine race with Michigan. Do you expect Democrats in Michigan will show McMorrow the same grace that Democrats in Maine appear to have done with someone like Platner, for example?

SEAWRIGHT: I think different communities respond to different things differently. What I will say that the common denominator is the people will ultimately decide who the nominee will be, i.e. Democrats who will vote in those respective primaries. But I think all of us who work in politics or who decide to enter the elected arena of politics, understand that what you have said or what you have done can and probably will be used against you in the court of public opinion. And that's why some of us oftentimes refer to politics as a contact sport.

So, it's no surprise that things that may have been said in the past or done will come up now in a very contested primary. However, I would caution any Democrat in any state running in any primary to understand that we have to learn how to yell in the places we agree and whisper in the places we disagree.

And as long as we're all singing from the same sheet of music in November about this unnecessary affordability crisis sponsored by Donald Trump and your Republican Party, and we can find common ground wherever we may not be able to find higher ground. I think we position ourselves to win a 50/50, very competitive jump ball election in November of this year. And that's how we start to take our country back.

JIMENEZ: Well, with this contact sport, get the pads out. Were closing in on this midterms very, very soon. We got primaries coming up in the next few weeks.

You threw a jump ball reference in there, too, so I think you're trying to go watch some playoffs in a second here, but -- and -- yeah?

SEAWRIGHT: Omar, Omar, there will be lots of blocking and tackling that will take place between now and November.

JIMENEZ: There we go.

SEAWRIGHT: So, govern yourself accordingly.

JIMENEZ: All right, there we go. There we go.

Antjuan, good to see you. Thanks for taking the time.

SEAWRIGHT: Good to see you.

JIMENEZ: All right. Meanwhile, the war in Iran has some MAGA voters distancing themselves from President Trump.

Conservative activist Charlie Kirk played a key role in keeping these voters united with his viral debates on college campuses. Following his death, political groups are competing for influence on college campuses nationwide, and CNN's Donie O'Sullivan reports from Arizona and California, where activists target young voters online and in person.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How do you feel about the current war in Iran?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't think you're going to find many Gen Z people that are super pro war in Iran.

DONIE O'SULLIVAN, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The MAGA coalition --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was wrong to support Donald Trump. That was a big mistake.

O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): -- is struggling.

JULIAN BECERRA, INFLUENCER: I was one of those guys back in 2020, 2024 not proud of it, man enough to say it.

O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): A key part of that coalition was young voters, particularly young men.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A lot of people I knew who just voted for Trump because they thought it was cool. Now just being like, I can't stand the guy.

O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): And the key to them was Charlie Kirk. His Turning Point USA juggernaut was a fixture on college campuses --

CHARLIE KIRK, FOUNDER, TURNING POINT USA: What is a woman?

O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): -- with his proved me wrong debates.

KIRK: What species is the baby in the womb?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's a human.

KIRK: Therefore, they should have human rights.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But it's an embryo.

O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): But since he was killed --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Charlie was the glue that held the conservative movement together.

O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): Turning Point USA has struggled.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Since he has passed, there's been a lot of division.

O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): And sensing an opportunity, groups on the left and on the right are trying to fill Kirk's place.

On this sparsely staged set, a group of Democrats are trying to catch up.

O'SULLIVAN: Where are we? What is this?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So, this is going to be destiny versus probably five to six turning point students.

O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): "UNF#CK America" was set up last year as a Democratic alternative to "Turning Point USA." Their plan was to show up to turning point events to try to debate Charlie Kirk.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why won't you debate me, Charlie?

O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): While debate is important --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Give me a five count down.

O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): --the real priority are clips. Snippets of debates that are cut up and shared all over the internet. It's something Charlie Kirk mastered, and it's what UNF#CK America are trying to do here today with Destiny, a streamer, an online debater who has millions of followers online and who has joined the UNF#CK campaign.

O'SULLIVAN: How important are clips?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, that's the most important thing ever. Because I think one of the biggest issues that the Democrats have had is that they don't understand how to take advantage of the attention economy. When we go places, it's like the viral moments don't come to us, we create them.

O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): Trying to emulate Charlie Kirk, UNF#CK America have started a campus debate tour of their own, and today they've come to ASU in Tempe, Arizona. This is Turning Point's backyard where Kirk built his empire. The group's headquarters is only a few miles away.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just wanted to let you know that we're not allowed to film in this area.

O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): But it started to become clear that UNF#CK America's event was not going to happen here today.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So I'm outside of the Turning Point USA headquarters right now?

O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): Convinced that Turning Point had something to do with the campus event cancellation, the group thought of another way of making some viral content.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is Erika Kirk here? Would there be any way --. We are being censored, we want to know why.

O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): Inside, far-right provocateur Jack Posobiec was broadcasting his show live. Posobiec has a long history of promoting conspiracy theories like Pizzagate.

JACK POSOBIEC, POLITICAL ACTIVIST: I'm literally doing a show right now, dude.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, yes. There's -- you know, the un-F America guys, so they're outside right now.

POSOBIEC: Wait. They're outside? They're here?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. Right outside the gate.

O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): It seemed like Posobiec also thought that this would be good content.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, everybody. Brian Shapiro here in front of the official Turning Point headquarters.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The UNF#CK America tour was canceled at ASU.

POSOBIEC: Hey, how are you?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thanks for coming out.

POSOBIEC: Let's go. You're in 47, huh?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These guys.

POSOBIEC: So, what happened?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're just a little frustrated because we agree on agree on freedom of speech, what Charlie Kirk stood for, right?

POSOBIEC: Yes.

ANDREW KOLVET, TPUSA SPOKESPERSON: I didn't know you guys were coming until I heard that there was, like I got a press inquiry about it saying, did we have anything to do with it? And yes, we did, so.

O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): While online the rhetoric was heated, in person it became a respectful conversation of the day's politics, even a photo op.

O'SULLIVAN: And they've been debating for like more than an hour now. None of them want to be seen to be walking away from the debate. I'm desperately hoping they end it. It's 110 degrees.

O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): Despite their ASU setback, UNF#CK America held an event the following week in UCLA where there would be more heated debate and yes, clips. After all, agreement just isn't as profitable.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'SULLIVAN: And sure, reporting that story really was a reminder of just how important a role Charlie Kirk played at keeping the young MAGA coalition united, and we've seen, of course, in recent months, many young people breaking with Trump and many podcasters breaking with Trump because of the war in Iran. You heard a student there ask Vice President J.D. Vance at the start of the piece, what are they going to do now without Kirk, who is going to unite them?

[16:45:06]

And I think what you see, Turning Point USA is struggling to fill Kirk's shoes, both as a unifier and also as somebody who can draw those big crowds to college campuses that then translate into viral clips online. So I think this is one very important to watch as we go into the midterms and of course, into the 2028 election.

Back to you.

JIMENEZ: All right. Donie O'Sullivan appreciate braving the 110 degrees, by the way, to bring us that story.

Coming up, some growing pushback as data centers drive up energy demand. Power bills are soaring, the ripple effect hitting communities every day. We'll talk about it coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:50:21]

JIMENEZ: The sudden surge in data center projects across the country has become a hot button topic in local politics. Just this week, it sparked heated debate at a county commission meeting in northern Utah.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What about the toll on natural resources?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're interrupting my meeting. The next time you'll be removed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JIMENEZ: Hundreds have protested the proposal of a massive data center that would cover 40,000 acres. And according to a physicist at Utah State University, would also eventually require more than twice the power used in all of New York City.

But Utah Governor Spencer Cox says data centers are vital for national security.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. SPENCER COX (R), UTAH: We have an obligation. I think every state has an obligation to allow for these types of data centers to be built.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JIMENEZ: Joining me now to talk more about the push to build data centers and the growing pushback against them is Mark Mills. He's the executive director for the National Center for Energy Analytics.

Thank you for taking the time.

I just want to start with a look at the overwhelming opposition it seems to these projects. A recent Quinnipiac poll shows that 65 percent of Americans are against building an A.I. data center in their community. Can you just lay out the reasons why you think there is such strong opposition?

MARK MILLS, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, NATIONAL CENTER FOR ENERGY ANALYTICS: Well, I am a physicist, not a psychologist, but I'll take a stab.

JIMENEZ: Fair.

MILLS: I'll take a stab at it.

Look, seriously, the -- I think most people don't understand what data centers are. So, that's the first problem. The kinds of things that we -- we like, that we use, all of us, social media to how actually you and I are communicating right now, streaming video. Your, you know, your mapping programs, your online shopping, your medical assistance, all that takes place in data centers. It doesn't take place in some, you know, fuzzy virtual place.

So before this controversy began, the United States had already built 5,000 data centers using lots of electricity all over the country, but not at the scale that we're now building, the A.I. addition, which is a form of software to be simplistic, that improves the data centers capacity to do useful things.

Controversy comes from, I think, I don't know how the campaign began. I could concoct theories, but just from a, frankly, a misunderstanding and a mis -- a challenge with logic.

Data centers can't are being built. Don't increase the cost of electricity because theyre not finished yet. It's like worrying about gasoline being used by your car while its still being manufactured. They're still being built, so they're not impacting electricity prices until they're built. And they wont impact electricity prices if their power is provided by themselves, inside their compounds, or privately, or if, as is happening in most states, that the utility has the power plants paid for by the data center.

So I think what we'll see happen is that they will not impact electricity prices, because it will be either private grids or the data center guys will pay the cost of the public grid, supplying the power.

JIMENEZ: Well, regardless of whether its going to be, you know, paid for by the actual companies themselves or, you know, there is a lot of fear out there, as you noted as well, that it would be passed on to the to the customers or the residents in the surrounding areas, we heard Governor Cox talk about the national security needs to build these data centers.

MILLS: Right.

JIMENEZ: And tech investor Kevin O'Leary is behind the Utah project, for example. And earlier this week on CNN, he said, why they need to be built inside the U.S.

Just take a quick listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KEVIN O'LEARY, TECH INVESTOR: If you want China to lead, take over our -- our -- let's call it our democracy, our free speech, and the way we live with technology. Just stop building data centers. It's that simple. There is a downside to stopping this technology advance.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JIMENEZ: And I guess just within that space, how important is it to be in control of the A.I. space? And is it worth sacrificing other resources? For example, again, we haven't quite seen every single aspect of this play out, but is it worth that? MILLS: Well, first of all, it'd be like asking the question back in

the dawn of aviation, is it worth building airports using fuel and aluminum and land to build airports? At the dawn of the pharmaceutical industry, is it worth using the energy required in the chemicals to make pharmaceuticals? And by the way, the pharmaceutical industry is one of the biggest energy consuming forms of manufacturing.

So I'm with Kevin O'Leary. It's 100 percent critical not just for national security. A.I. is a foundational and consequential advance in technology. It is as important as the advent of computers itself. So we could have -- we could ask exactly the same questions in the 1970s. Should we just not build computers?

Computers already use globally more electricity than the country of Japan.

[16:55:02]

So we've already crossed that bridge. That's how all technologies all advanced. They require energy and land and materials. Everything does.

But it's not just the national security issue from the viewpoint of the Defense Department, using data centers. Of course, the Defense Department does. The biggest use is in our economy.

But data centers with A.I. are doing is providing, you know, the new nomenclature they like to use, that these are factories, you know, artificial intelligence factories, because what theyre manufacturing from raw data is useful software that will boost the economy.

You know, I wrote a book about this. Others have done the same thing. I would -- I think it's reasonable to sort of guesstimate because we're all guessing about the future, that the biggest single boost to our overall economy, not to the military, will come from A.I. and data centers. It's already beginning. So we lose --

JIMENEZ: It is already beginning.

Yeah. I was just going to say, yeah, it's already beginning. And I -- and I think to your point, it's not going anywhere in terms of the dawn of new industries and continuing to develop.

Mark Mills, I got to leave the conversation there. Thanks for being here.

And for everyone else, I'm Omar Jimenez. CNN NEWSROOM continues with Jessica Dean, up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)