Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Four More Villagers Freed From Flooded Cave In Laos; Tensions Rise At New Jersey ICE Facility As Supporters, Protesters Face Off; Trump Silent On If He Will Agree To Potential Deal With Iran; California Voters To Cast Ballots In Crowded Race For Governor; Tensions Rise Outside Newark, New Jersey ICE Facility; "Legal Loophole" Opens Prediction Markets To 18-Year-Olds; Multiple Artists Pull Out Of Donald Trump-Backed Concert Series. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired May 30, 2026 - 17:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:00:36]

JESSICA DEAN, CNN HOST: You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

Hi, everyone. I'm Jessica Dean here in New York.

Four villagers freed after being trapped in a Lao cave for more than a week. The four men at the center of the rescue mission walked out of the cave into the arms of a team getting ready to go back in to help them.

Divers gearing up to reenter the flooded cave. But after a days-long effort to pump the water out, those men able to just walk out on their own, escape on their own.

The first of five men who had been found alive was brought out by rescuers on Friday. Two others, believed to have entered the cave system earlier than the five rescued men remain missing.

All of them entered that cave over a week ago looking for gold, and then became trapped when heavy rain and flash flooding blocked their exit.

CNN's Will Ripley has been reporting exclusively from that scene in Laos, and has more on this extraordinary morning.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WILL RIPLEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We are just -- want to get you a little bit closer. Come on in here so you can see this incredible scene.

They've just loaded two of the men, I believe, into these ambulances, which are on standby. You can see they're carrying a third villager down now.

So you can see the entire village is coming out here. People are recording with their phones. You've got smiles. You've got people with looks of absolute astonishment because these men -- they thought, everybody thought they were going to need to be ushered out by this team of highly-skilled international divers.

And they climbed out on their own. They showed the world how it's done here in central Laos.

Obviously, there's a lot of medical care that they're going to need, which makes it all the more extraordinary that they crawled out of that cave 260 meters -- more than 850 feet -- on their own, a testament to the hard work, the days of pumping water out of the cave, and that the rain has not fallen yesterday and hasn't fallen yet today.

And here he is, getting in the ambulance on the way to the hospital. It's just an extraordinary ending to really an extraordinary story here.

These are some of the locals who've been gathering, some of the people who've been assisting with the search. You have dozens of people in this village.

And we now have Kocha (ph). This I think Kocha's coming. This is the mother of one of the men who is rescued. Hey, Kocha.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The mother of the last guy who just sent to the hospital.

RIPLEY: Kocha, let's talk. Come on over here. You guys remember Kocha from yesterday. How are you feeling? Congratulations.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you for helping me.

RIPLEY: "Thank you for helping me."

This is one of those moments, really one of those once-in-a-lifetime moments that you take a mental snapshot and you always remember.

And that's just us standing here at the bottom of this mountain. You can only imagine what it was like for the rescuers, from Thailand, from here in Laos, from all over the world.

And you can see these fellas now. You've got Robin there, who's from France, based in Indonesia. You've got Mikko. He's based here in -- here in Laos -- based actually over in Thailand, I should say.

Hey guys.

Can we talk to you? Were on live. Can I just -- can I just -- Joshua from Australia. Mikko. Robin. Holy moly -- congratulations.

ROBIN CUESTA, FRENCH RESCUE DIVER: I was very worried this morning that we had to extract them by diving, because I don't think they would have made it alive. They could still have a laugh and --

RIPLEY: And they were laughing. CUESTA: Yes, they were laughing and said like, sir, thank you a lot.

So I think that's a strong guy.

MIKKO PAASI, FINNISH RESCUE DIVER: The fact that they actually crawled, everybody crawled out by themselves. That talks a lot about it. It's not -- it's quite physical.

RIPLEY: It's rainy season. This is the exact kind of storm that caused the cave to flood 11 days ago. This is why they got stuck down there.

[17:04:48]

RIPLEY: And now the storm is coming up again after an extraordinary two-day, almost, pause in the rain.

It was supposed to rain yesterday. It was supposed to rain all day today, but it's just now starting to rain at 5:17 in the evening. And they are out.

They're at the hospital getting the medical care they need. They're back with their families. We're going to wait for an update on the two that are still missing.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DEAN: All right. That was Will Ripley. At this hour, no updates on those two villagers though who do remain missing.

Tensions are running high at an ICE facility in Newark, New Jersey. Both ICE supporters and protesters have been facing off since this morning outside that immigration detention center.

Protests have escalated since Memorial Day weekend, when lawyers for some detainees said hundreds inside were on a hunger strike over what they call inhumane conditions, including worms in their food.

Let's bring in CNN's Gloria Pazmino. She joins us now with the latest. Gloria, what are you seeing there?

GLORIA PAZMINO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, look, Paula (SIC), things are much calmer here after a few confrontations this morning between pro ICE demonstrators who gathered and anti-ICE groups who have gathered here for more than a week now to protest conditions inside Delaney Hall.

Now, detainees inside, their attorneys, their family members have told us that there is an ongoing hunger strike happening inside. This is to protest conditions.

They claim that there is a lack of proper care, no medical attention, no access to their legal counsel. And as you said, that they've been served spoiled food.

The detainees have been doing this hunger strike to demand that the most vulnerable among them are released. Now, the Department of Homeland Security has denied that there's a

hunger strike happening inside Delaney Hall. They also denied some of the conditions that they have been describing.

Now, I want to talk about the security situation, because state police has been here on the ground since last night. They moved in early this morning to try and disperse the crowds. They have put up barricades and created two separate areas for people to protest.

I just want to give you an idea of what things look like here on the ground. You can see the barricades that have been set up. There are protesters on this side.

And as you can see here, the line of state police and local police departments that are guarding the entrance to Delaney Hall. It has significantly increased in the past few hours.

And we just heard from the New Jersey Governor, Mikie Sherrill, who said that she believes this is actually keeping ICE officers from taking more drastic action. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. MIKIE SHERRILL (D-NJ): What we were doing and, you know, pulling things together remarkably quickly to make sure that there was no pretextual reason for ICE to put their people on the ground. We had put them off for at least one night, but we did not have a lot of time, and we knew that they were ready to engage in a way and clear out protesters.

Having seen what that looks like in other states, you know, very violent techniques, no area for people to protest.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PAZMINO: Now Jessica, the governor also said some of the outside -- that there have been outsiders, people who she said this, she described them as national extremists, have been involved in some of the demonstrations here.

There were six arrests here last night, five of them, according to the governor, were people who are from outside the state, Jessica.

DEAN: All right. Gloria Pazmino in Newark, thank you so much for that.

Still ahead, we're going to talk with Congressman Robert Menendez, who visited that very migrant facility in New Jersey. He's going to tell us what he saw.

Plus, Democrats put to the test in California, with voters heading to the polls for primary in just a few days.

And the Secretary of Defense says the U.S. is ready to start fighting again with Iran if it has to.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM. [17:08:42]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DEAN: Tonight, Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth says the U.S. is ready to start fighting again with Iran if no deal is reached.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETE HEGSETH, U.S. DEFENSE SECRETARY: So Iran knows very, very clearly what our expectations are and that's on the negotiating team to deliver. They're coming in our direction. The talks have been productive.

I think they know where it needs to go. And I'm quite confident with this -- with our president who makes nothing but great deals that ultimately it will be something he's proud to defend, that ensures that Iran, which everyone knows should not have a nuclear weapon, never does.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: Today, no word from President Trump on a potential deal. On Friday, he met with his national security team, saying he would make a final determination on that memorandum of understanding.

Meantime, a U.S. official tells CNN it includes reopening the Strait of Hormuz and phased financial relief for Iran, but it does not address the critical issue of Iran's nuclear program, which would be punted to the next phase of negotiations.

And we're joined now by former U.S. Ambassador to the U.N. John Bolton. He also served as President Trump's national security adviser during the first administration.

Ambassador Bolton, thanks for being here with us. I appreciate it. How do you see Trump's options as we sit right now?

JOHN BOLTON, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED NATIONS: Well, I think there must be confusion over what people think has been agreed, or more likely, in my view, Trump is dissatisfied with what he sees in the agreement.

[17:14:50]

BOLTON: He's worried that parts of it could come back to haunt him or be the subject of criticism. And they're trying to figure a way out of it.

I think this is the sort of indecision, though, that's a gift to Iran. Every day that goes by that Iran isn't being bombed, the regime can dig out, try and regroup and re-entrench its position. It would certainly like to be free of our blockade of their exports of oil.

But fundamentally, the regime is more interested right now in just basic regime survival. And this delay ultimately benefits the regime more than it benefits us or the people of Iran.

DEAN: And you've previously said that, in your opinion, the U.S. should return to hostilities. I'm curious if you think at this point, after the weeks of fighting and what the U.S. military did do, if they accomplished what they set out to accomplish.

BOLTON: Well, I think they caused enormous destruction inside Iran. There's no doubt about it. There appears to be from more recent intelligence analysis that there's more that could be done.

And I think that speaks to just how determined, really how fanatic, this militaristic ideological regime really is, that they're not spending money on the welfare of the Iranian people. They're doing work to entrench themselves in power.

So if there's more to be done, then I think that that's what we should focus on. Because otherwise, if the regime holds on and eventually gets to export oil again, it will simply rebuild all the facilities we've destroyed.

And in some definable period of time, will be right back worrying about the nuclear weapons program. Right back, worried about their terrorist proxies around the region and around the world and all the rest of it.

DEAN: What is your level of worry right now on that nuclear program?

BOLTON: Well, I think we've probably done pretty significant destruction to what we know exists. But as I think we've all come to learn painfully, intelligence is not perfect.

There may be sites that we're not really aware of that were never attacked. We do know about this relatively new site called Pickax Mountain near Natanz. That has not been bombed.

And the perennial question what part, if any, of the Iranian nuclear program is actually being done under a mountain in North Korea, under contract between Iran and North Korea?

So there remain a lot of uncertainties. And I think the regime is drawing a conclusion. Trump is so averse to resuming military hostilities, the time is on their side.

DEAN: And so what do you think when it comes to the Strait of Hormuz? Where are the Iranians on that? Do you think that the U.S.' deterrence has been weakened when it comes to what they've been able to do there?

BOLTON: Well, I think the deterrence of the U.S., the Gulf Arabs as well, has been eliminated. And if Iran is able to withdraw from its efforts to close the strait purely by diplomatic means, there will be no new deterrent established.

If we're not willing to use force at this moment with the troops we've got concentrated in the region, all the forces -- air, naval and land, it's hard to imagine what a better time would be to reopen it by force. And I think that, if the president were willing to do that, which he

doesn't appear to be, that would go a long way to reestablishing deterrence after our forces have long since departed.

DEAN: Yes. And knowing all of this and knowing where I hear you coming from, which is that you think there should be more military operations, do you have any concerns, though, about how long the U.S. military can sustain any sort of operations there in the Middle East, and how it potentially could impact American readiness?

BOLTON: Well, I think it's obviously another factor. And just hanging around in the Gulf is not a good use of their resources if, in fact, they're just there because the negotiations are dragging on.

I think it was a mistake to give Iran a ceasefire to begin with. I think they were very badly damaged and they've been pulling themselves back together.

And as I say, I think Trump has long wanted to find a way to declare victory and get out of this. He's worried about the price of gasoline.

I think the way to address that is open the Arab side of the strait. Get -- let's get the oil from the Gulf Arab producing states out. We know that some tankers that have lifted -- Iran -- Saudi Arabia, Arabic oil are coming out. They're turning off their transponders. "The Wall Street Journal" and others have reported this.

I think if we went further and established that we could get ships out safely, I think the price of oil would drop fairly dramatically.

[17:19:47]

BOLTON: People would look to the future and not think the strait is going to be closed effectively forever.

DEAN: All right. Ambassador John Bolton, good to have you. Thanks for your time.

BOLTON: Thank you.

DEAN: As Los Angeles Mayor Karen Bass fights to keep her -- to remain the mayor, a former reality TV star, is hoping his past comments on September 11th don't derail his campaign.

We'll talk about that race when we come back.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

[17:20:15]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DEAN: Candidates in California's governor's race only have a few days left before voters decide who will be on the ballot in November to replace current governor, Gavin Newsom. It is a crowded race in that primary. And a reminder that in California, the top two candidates advance regardless of party affiliation. And overall, there are 60 -- 60 candidates running for governor.

In Friday's Berkeley/IGS poll, Democrat Xavier Becerra, Republican Steve Hilton and Democrat Tom Steyer, you see there really leading the top three.

Politico California bureau chief and coauthor of Politico's California Playbook, Melanie Mason is joining us now.

[17:24:50]

DEAN: Melanie, what a wild primary you all have had out there. And it's not even done yet. It's a very tight race there at the top. Do you see this at this point as essentially a three-person race for who's going to advance?

MELANIE MASON, POLITICO CALIFORNIA BUREAU CHIEF: I think that that's right. I think that we are really watching whether -- the question is whether the Republican voters in the state have coalesced enough behind Steve Hilton to really power him into the top two, or are we going to be watching two Democrats slug it out in November between Xavier Becerra and Tom Steyer?

And it's kind of ironic, because if you recall, there was so much panic among Democrats for so many months that perhaps there'd be two Republicans in the top two because of this wonky system.

Instead, I think its most likely well see Steve Hilton run against a Democrat, but it's possible we could see two Democrats going up against each other in November.

DEAN: And so to that end, we still haven't seen Governor Newsom, other big-name Democrats endorse anybody. They've not coalesced, let's say, around any one of these Democrats in a major way.

Has that surprised you as someone who's followed this whole race? What's the thinking behind that?

MASON: I think when it comes to Governor Newsom, he can retreat to the fact that when he was running for governor in 2018, the then-incumbent governor, Jerry Brown, didn't get involved in the race.

And so, in fact, he said that's pretty explicitly that now he understands why the incumbent governor doesn't want to get involved.

But I think for some of these other major California figures, I do think it's notable that they're staying out. And I think that voters have been really looking for some indicators of who are the Democrats that they think are the most viable.

And so when you don't have somebody like former speaker Nancy Pelosi or Senator Alex Padilla weighing in, I think that voters are looking elsewhere for their -- for their cues, for their clues about who would be the best Democrat for the job.

DEAN: And so where do they look for that? Where are you sensing they're looking to try to get that direction? MASON: Well, in some ways they're looking for the -- at the polls. I

mean what has been --

DEAN: Yes.

MASON: -- so interesting about this top two conversation is its actually pushed a lot of Democratic voters to talk about voting strategically, as opposed to maybe the candidate that they feel the most inspired by or whose policies that they -- that they like.

The other thing that we've seen is that Democrats for a long time were holding on to their ballots for quite a while. Remember, in California, it's an all-mail-in ballot state so voting has been going on for three weeks.

But we saw until very, very recently a real lag of ballot return from Democrats. And that tells me that Democrats were still not totally sure where they were touching down.

So it's just been in these last few days where I think voters are doing their research. They're starting to see all of the mail that's coming in and the, you know, TV ads that they're seeing. I think they're finally buckling down and saying, ok, it's time to make a decision here.

DEAN: Yes. And that's a big ballot there in California. It goes on for many pages. There's a lot for them to go through.

I do quickly want to go down to L.A. for one second, where that mayoral race, obviously getting a ton of attention. We've had some of the candidates here on this show as well.

What dynamics are you tracking in that race? Again, a number of people running, but with the top three pretty stacked, pretty, pretty tightly.

MASON: Look at the end of the day, this race is a referendum on the current mayor, Mayor Karen Bass. And I think the frustrations that a lot of Angelenos felt, particularly with the handling of the wildfires last year and then some of the more protracted problems like homelessness and the high cost of living in this city.

But what we're seeing is that there's, you know, two primary candidates kind of from different ideological ends that are challenging her and trying to channel that frustration.

I think that in some ways, that's been drowned out a bit by all of the spectacle and attention being paid to Spencer Pratt, because he's become a more nationalized figure. You know, he's this reality star who I think has really showed that there's a new way of campaigning.

But, if you're listening to what he's saying, he's fundamentally talking about what he thinks Karen Bass has done wrong in her mayorship and trying to channel some of that anger.

I think the real question, though, is he's coming at this from, you know, a fairly right-leaning perspective, even though he says that he doesn't want to be affiliated with one party or the other.

I mean, Donald Trump himself said that he thought that Pratt was very MAGA. And I think in a city as deep blue as Los Angeles, that could be difficult for him to overcome, but it might just be enough to push him into the runoff.

DEAN: Yes, it's going to be really interesting. And you mentioned the way he's campaigned with those viral A.I videos, and we could do a whole segment on that too. But unfortunately, we don't have time.

Melanie, it's great to have you. Thank you so much for your time.

MASON: Thanks for having me.

DEAN: Yes. On Tuesday, you can tune in to CNN for our special "ELECTION NIGHT IN AMERICA" coverage. We're going to be tracking those key primary races all across the country, including there in California and what we just discussed.

You can get election results all-day, all-night Tuesday on CNN and the CNN app.

Coming up, what it's like inside that controversial detention center in New Jersey. We're going to talk to someone who's seen it in person. That's Congressman Bob Menendez. He's going to join us next here in the CNN NEWSROOM.

[17:29:35]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:34:04]

DEAN: We are watching the scene as it calms down outside a controversial ICE facility in Newark, New Jersey. There have been protests and confrontations there since last weekend, when some attorneys for some detainees said hundreds of -- hundreds inside that facility were on a hunger strike over what they call inhumane conditions, including worms in their food.

Both ICE supporters and ICE protesters gathered outside that facility earlier today. That led to a heavy police presence there, and more lawmakers have been trying to see conditions inside that facility. That includes New Jersey Democratic Congressman Rob Menendez, and he joins us now.

Congressman, thanks so much for your time this afternoon. I want to start first by just getting your thoughts and your reaction to what you've seen inside that facility and what we've seen unfold in the last 24 hours or so.

REP. ROB MENENDEZ (D-NJ): Yes, so thanks so much for having me. What we've seen inside are inhumane conditions that we would never expect anyone, let alone people who have not committed any crimes, have to exist and have our taxpayer dollars go to over a billion dollars is going to this facility. There's a lack of adequate health care. The food is just horrendous and has been a complaint since day one of this facility opening.

[17:35:16]

But the reality is the people inside of there are folks who are married to U.S. citizens, have U.S. citizen children, there are women who are pregnant there right now, one individual who is in a wheelchair, that's the reality of who is inside, which is in direct contrast to what the Trump administration has said from the beginning of their administration about this being about the worst of the worst. These are people who pose no threat to our communities, people that have committed no crimes.

DEAN: And the acting Assistant Secretary of DHS Lauren Bis, said in a statement that this is nothing more than a political stunt by New Jersey sanctuary politicians for fundraising clicks. There's no hunger strike at Delaney Hall. There is no subprime conditions or abuse at that facility. Is that a lie?

MENENDEZ: It is. And you know, I would welcome Secretary Mullin, or any Republican, to come visit Delaney Hall with us and talk to these individuals, including a pastor from the city of Elizabeth, who is a constituent of mine.

You know, they want to portray one narrative of what's happening, but the reality is much different inside that facility, which is why we continue to go there. Why so many individuals, advocates, family members, including a 10-year-old daughter of someone inside, continue to speak out against what's happening there. That's why so many participate in a hunger strike to raise awareness of what's happening, and the administration can continue to put out press releases, or they can come on the ground and see for themselves. I would welcome them in Newark to do so.

DEAN: And so, to your understanding, that hunger strike absolutely happened, and you are telling us you saw with your own eyes that those conditions inside line up with what has been alleged, that they are not good conditions?

MENENDEZ: A hundred percent. I mean, there is an individual who has been kept in medical isolation for over four months. The limit should be no more than a month. There was a woman who suffered a miscarriage, who was told by doctors on site that it was a psychological pregnancy. There is an 18-year-old who this coming month will miss her high school graduation because she is at Delaney Hall.

Those are the stories of individuals in there, and they're being kept under inhumane conditions, constantly threatened for acting in a collective fashion, being threatened with removal away from their families if they continue this hunger strike and continue to speak out by what's going on inside of there.

So, yes, it's been a problem, it's been a challenge since day one of this facility opening.

DEAN: And so, what can actually be done? Obviously, you all have been there, there have been protests, but in terms of actually changing the reality of what you're describing, what do you think can be done?

MENENDEZ: So, you know, by being there, by being the eyes and ears for our entire community. We continue to shine light on what's happening. We can continue to put pressure on this administration. I do wish they were more responsive. We have seen small incremental things, like them adding a second full-time doctor to get more adequate health care for individuals there.

But you know, we have to continue to put pressure on this administration, because what is happening inside there is not a reflection of who we are as a country, and the more people that understand that, understand who's in there and what their stories are, I believe we can change public sentiment.

You're already seeing support for the president's immigration enforcement erode. The more that people know about the individuals in there, the people that we have seen, the conditions that they're being detained under, you'll see a further erosion of what's remaining of the president's support on immigration.

DEAN: There's also concern about what's happening outside and those tensions, and if they could escalate, if people could be injured, in harm's way, as that all plays out, New Jersey officials say five of the six people that were arrested last night were from outside New Jersey, adding that national extremist groups, those were their words, have become involved in the protest today. Are you concerned about that dynamic?

MENENDEZ: Sure, and you know, and the state's continuing to monitor it, but the biggest threat in Newark, the biggest threat at Delaney Hall right now is ICE itself. We've seen what they've done across the country, especially in places like Minneapolis. That's what keeps us all awake at night, and what we're very worried about, and what the folks, the peaceful protesters on the ground, are worried about, and what we continue to highlight and push back on.

ICE does not need to be in Newark to the degree that they are, they can definitely fall back. Their decision not to me is an indication that this administration wants to escalate things outside the facility, so we stop talking about what's happening inside the facility, and all those vulnerable individuals that continue to be held there.

DEAN: All right, Congressman Rob Menendez, thanks for your time. We appreciate it.

MENENDEZ: Thanks so much for having me.

DEAN: You can forget poker and slots. Some college-age young adults are turning to a new way to bet in the prediction markets. We're going to talk about that, how it's regulated, how it's not regulated. You're in CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:44:47] DEAN: Prediction markets like Polymarket and Kalshi are so popular right now, from bets on who will win an award to the weather, everything in between, and a big part of that popularity is its grip on younger Americans. Since prediction markets are not legally considered gambling, in which you have to be 21 years old, people who are 18 to 21 can get in on the betting.

[17:45:07]

CNN's Senior Reporter Marshall Cohen spoke to addiction experts and state officials who are warning this so-called loophole could become a public health crisis, Marshall?

MARSHALL COHEN, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: Hi, Jessica, some are calling this a public health crisis. We are talking about prediction sites like Kalshi and Polymarket, where you can bet on nearly everything from sports to elections and entertainment and beyond.

But most folks probably don't realize that these companies are not technically considered gambling, they are regulated like financial markets under federal law, like crypto and day trading, and therefore they're available to anyone over 18. Critics say this is a loophole, because in most states you must be 21 to use a sports book and bet on the same exact games.

So, we've heard from young people, including some still in high school, who say they've become addicted to prediction markets. At first, it was fun betting on things that they're passionate about to earn extra cash to pay for vacations and nice dinners, but addiction specialists told us that the brain just isn't fully developed by age 18. You take more risks, you might not consider the consequences of your actions. And experts have warned that this is especially true among young men.

Earlier this week, President Donald Trump said he fully supports the prediction industry, and his administration is trying to stop states from regulating these companies like gambling.

Kalshi, in the meantime, has voluntarily imposed safeguards that they say will protect younger users, like encouraging deposit limits or requiring proof of funds.

And I recently spoke about this with Kalshi's head of product, Catherine Sullivan. Here's what she said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CATHERINE SULLIVAN, HEAD OF PRODUCT, KALSHI: If we see that our younger users are losing a certain amount of money, we start triggering alerts to them, more so in terms of suggestions and gentle guardrails, more so than policing our users, which we never want to do.

Who are we to really like police what people can do once they turn 18? Like, these are the principles with which the country was founded.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COHEN: Kalshi says only four percent of its total trading volume comes from this 18 to 21 age group, but consider this, Kalshi sees about $4 billion in weekly trading volume overall, and Kalshi's biggest rival, Polymarket, also recently became widely available in the U.S. earlier this month, and they have been on a marketing blitz.

Jessica, their ads are all over social media. I've been getting them nonstop on my TikTok feed, and I noticed that Kalshi -- excuse me, Polymarket has partnered with the influencer Logan Paul, who has a massive following with younger Americans.

Polymarket declined to comment for this story, and Jessica, we should note, for full disclosure, CNN has a partnership with Kalshi. We use its data to cover major events, but editorial employees like you and me are not allowed to use any prediction markets for betting, Jessica.

DEAN: All right, Marshall Cohen with the latest. Thank you so much for that.

And joining us now to talk more about this is Gary Gensler, who's the former chairman of the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission and the CFTC, which regulates prediction markets as financial exchanges instead of gambling. Gary, thank you for being here with us. Let's just start first, generally, are these prediction markets essentially gambling going unregulated in your view?

GARY GENSLER, FORMER CHAIRMAN, U.S. SECURITIES AND EXCHANGE COMMISSION: Jessica, I think that parts of them are. Let's just focus on sports, sports betting. Sports betting, it was never the intention of Congress in 2010 when they gave the Commodity Futures Trading Commission some expanded authority. Remember that financial crisis in 2008, that was what it was all about.

I don't believe that anyone I ever talked to was giving sports betting to this federal agency, and in fact, one little curious thing is the majority leader of the U.S. Senate then was Harry Reid, the senator from Nevada. He would have thrown us out of his office if we had asked for such authority.

DEAN: And so, how would things work differently if it was considered gambling? And do you think that's a direction that each that lawmakers should move toward?

GENSLER: Well, right now sports betting is -- was done at the state level, when we passed those reforms, there was only four states that had it, and then now there's over 30 states that have sports betting.

And we have FanDuel, and we have DraftKings, and so forth, and they comply with those state laws, and many states say, "Listen, we don't want those 18 to 21-year-olds to be in these markets because of the addictive quality of betting."

[17:50:02]

But now, under the current administration they're saying no, we have this at the federal level, don't worry, we've got the ball here, so to speak. In states, you stand down, and of course, Congress could do that, but they didn't do that 15 years ago, and what's further in 2012 we voted unanimously on a rule when I was chairing that Commodity Futures Trading Commission, unanimously in a rule to prohibit such prediction markets on assassination, war, terrorism, interestingly, and on gaming.

DEAN: And so, what is the future do you think? Where is this going?

GENSLER: I think it's going to play out in the courts. The U.S. Supreme Court already has some filings in front of it, out of New Jersey, but somewhere in the next two or three years, the Supreme Court will decide some of these really consequential legal questions, but put that aside, I think for the American public it's really a question about can these markets have high integrity.

Can we -- can we ensure that insider trading is not in there, that somebody's not whispering out of the situation room that there's going to be an attack on this country or that country, or an athlete in a game knows that there's money on the game as to whether they're going to, let's say, get another three point play, and they don't do it.

DEAN: Yes, now you think back not too long ago about that member of the military who was placing bets on what would happen in Venezuela, who was alleged to be part of all of that, and who is now in the, you know, facing charges related to all of it.

In your podcast, Power and Consequences, you talk about that 2008 financial crisis, how you were part of the financial reform that was born out of it. How do you think the current chair of the CFTC should be approaching all of this, and do you think they're equipped to kind of deal with the immense popularity?

GENSLER: Look, I think it's an enormous privilege to chair that agency, and it's a great agency, but it's a small agency, it's only about 400 or so people, by the way, it's been shrunk from 700 plus people, and it's not -- does not have the expertise, it doesn't have the budget authority to regulate thousands of sports games, thousands of political events, thousands of celebrity events. It just simply doesn't, and it's also largely focused on I would say institutional markets.

What's the ups and downs of the interest rate markets? What's the ups and downs of the corn and wheat and energy markets? That's what the agency is really good at. We discuss it more. Thank you on this podcast that Simon Johnson and I put out. You can listen to that to hear more.

DEAN: All right, Gary Gensler, good to have you. Thanks so much.

GENSLER: Thank you so much, Jessica.

DEAN: And if you or someone you know may have a gambling problem, you can call the National Problem Gambling Helpline at 1-800-MY-RESET. It's open 24/7 It is free and confident.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:57:28]

DEAN: New tonight, President Trump reacting after the majority of artists booked to perform during the 16 day event celebrating America's 250th birthday, set to begin in late June dropped out this week. Trump mocking performers who have withdrawn on, he did this on Truth Social, saying they were getting the yips and suggesting he could replace them as the featured attraction.

Let's bring in Dominic Patten, he's the executive editor of Deadline Hollywood. Dominic, great to have you here.

Martina McBride, who was one of those artists, said in a post, she said, "I was presented with an opportunity to perform at a nonpartisan event, but that turned out to be misleading." How did this all happen?

DOMINIC PATTEN, EXECUTIVE EDITOR, DEADLINE HOLLYWOOD: Well, I think it happened that usually happens with these MAGA events, which is it was all put together at the last minute, and it was all done with no thinking about who would be a hit. There was no, for instance, no one had thought to invite Bad Bunny, you know who they all complained about being in the Super Bowl, saying it was a DEI thing, but of course he is one of the biggest artists in the world. Makes absolute sense to have him at big event like that.

No, instead they went with, well, you know what, our deadlines, Glenn Garner wrote about Trump remarks on this today, but actually Matt Walsh, no big -- non-fan of MAGA, said, you know, that they invited a bunch of absurdly washed-up geriatric one-hit wonders, and when that didn't pan out, they tried to turn this into a Trump rally, so ultimately maybe that was the real goal was to self-sabotage with this.

But when you have loyal Donald Trump fans like Bret Michaels, formerly a Poison or still a Poison, you know who was on "Celebrity Apprentice," when you had him dropping out and people like that, this is just falling apart very quickly.

I was surprised that we didn't see Lee Greenwood on this, because he's been in almost every Trump event, and what have you. Maybe they'll try to resurrect it because right now, this is yet another embarrassment in their alternative America 250 that's coming against the nonpartisan committee that's put together various events, just like they did at the 1976 bicentennial. But that doesn't seem to be what the Trump people want. They want it to be a glorious celebration of El Presidente, and that's not working out.

DEAN: Yes, I mean, you think about inaugurations, let's say, and what an honor it is for an artist to be asked to perform at an inauguration, and that's gone on for Republicans and Democrats for many years.

It seems really difficult now for a nonpartisan event to proceed, and there's also this dynamic. I mean, I think about, too, like the Kennedy Center, and now that's become so politicized now. Artists have dropped out of performing there.