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Russia Unleashes 11-Hour Barrage Of Strikes On Kyiv; More Than A Week On, Families Still Hope To Find Loved Ones; Qatar Reports "Positive Progress" At Latest U.S.-Iran Talks; USA Overcome Bosnia And Herzegovina 2-0 Despite Red Card; 900+ Arrested During Anti-migrant Protests in South Africa; Scorching Heat Sets in Across U.S. As July 4 Nears; Daredevil Couple Reaches Top of Empire State Building; Rebel Catholic Group Ordains Bishops Without Pope's Approval; Trump Puts Himself at Center of America's 250th Celebration; Madison Square Garden to Host Wedding Celebrations of Taylor Swift & Travis Kelce. Aired 2-3a ET

Aired July 02, 2026 - 02:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[02:00:41]

ROSEMARY CHURCH, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, and welcome to our viewers joining us from all around the world. I'm Kristie Lu Stout in Hong Kong.

And ahead right here on CNN NEWSROOM. How deadly explosions rock the Ukrainian capital. At least 10 people are killed as Russian strikes hit Kyiv overnight, what Moscow is saying.

And rescuers race to reach a man trapped for more than a week in Venezuela. We'll have the very latest on this critical rescue effort.

Plus:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PILOT: Two geniuses climbed to the top of the Empire State Building at the top of this spire.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STOUT: This couple is in custody after climbing to the top of the Empire State Building in New York.

ANNOUNCER: Live from Hong Kong, this is CNN NEWSROOM with Kristie Lu Stout.

STOUT: Now we begin with a grim task for emergency crews in Kyiv. Just hours after a new salvo of Russian strikes hit the city, officials say at least 10 people were killed, dozens more were injured, and damage has been reported at more than 30 locations across Kyiv. Officials say a number of residential buildings took direct hits, and right now emergency crews are working through the night, through the rubble, and recovering victims' remains.

President Volodymyr Zelenskyy had warned that there were indications that Russia was preparing a massive strike, and this comes after a series of Ukrainian drone attacks deep inside Russia in recent weeks.

For more now, I'm joined now by Orysia Lutsevych. She is the head of Ukraine forum at Chatham House, and joins us now live. Thank you very much for joining us here on the program.

As reported, Russia has attacked Ukraine's capital. Tell us, what is the strategic logic of these strikes, especially in light of Ukraine's long-range drone attacks on Moscow?

ORYSIA LUTSEVYCH, HEAD, UKRAINE FORUM, CHATHAM HOUSE: So, you are seeing basically the fact that Putin is failing to achieve any of his objectives in territorial terms to retake all of these lands that he claims in the Russian constitution belong, even less the leftovers of Donbas region, and he is basically on the revenge mission against Ukrainian civilians to break the will to resist to make life hell in Ukrainian cities, and we're seeing these attacks, continuous attacks with more than 500 drones overnight to basically bombard cities.

On the other hand, Ukraine is practicing quite a sophisticated mid and long-range precision strikes to take out the blood of Russian war economy, which is of course energy and fuel, and it has attacked eight out of 10 largest refineries to incapacitate damage than consistently from actually October of 2025, how it has intensified.

STOUT: And Orysia, let's discuss what triggered what you call Putin's revenge mission. Let's focus in on Ukraine's mission, Ukraine's refinery-focused drone campaign. What does Ukraine achieve with this battlefield strategy?

LUTSEVYCH: Ukraine has surprisingly achieved quite a lot. If we consider that Russia is the largest producer and exporter of oil, it has an enormous system of refining and transit from land and sea routes.

So, as a result of these sophisticated drone attacks, Ukraine has taken about 20 percent of oil refining capacity of Russia, and it's because the equipment to run these stations is expensive. It's not easy to repair, but also it comes from the West, where there are sanctions imposed to limit Russia's access to any equipment related to energy sector.

So, this consistent attack led to shortages in many, many Russian regions of fuel. We already see rationing of how much civilians can purchase, they can't have canisters to fill in to store home, but also this will impact the army, first of all, and this is the goal, the gasoline that is used for armored vehicles and all kinds of vehicles. The production of it dropped 25 percent. So much this is the problem that for the first time Russia will have to import some of it from sea, so it's in talk with Kazakhstan and India to actually repurchase India's processed Russian oil that it's refining back into Russia.

[02:05:27] STOUT: And we've seen such, you know, vivid depictions of this rationing. We've seen lines and lines of Russian drivers waiting for petrol in Russian cities, along with the images of blown-up Russian refineries. What is all this done to Russia's so-called energy superpower status?

LUTSEVYCH: Well, clearly, it has damaged it to a large degree, and also something that Russian population could probably have not imagined. They have flashbacks to the '90s when Soviet Union was collapsing and there was a deficit of everything.

So, it is a strange, you know, harbinger possibly of what awaits Russia, and people perfectly understand that Putin will try to put up a brace show and will try to find alternative sources for this energy, but the question is whether he will have to pay hard currency for this, to which he's also running out, because his war chest is drying up. We see Russia runs a huge budget deficit, more than it has expected.

So, all of this creates really a crunch time for Russia, and especially let's recall that there will be so-called sham do my elections, where one way or the other Putin will have to show up the brave face telling how this war is going in his favor, which obviously the Russian citizens perfectly understand it is not.

STOUT: This is, as you put it, crunch time for Russia and for Putin. But is there a danger that Russia's fuel crisis actually could rally the public around the Kremlin instead of turning them against it?

LUTSEVYCH: There's always a risk of that, and nation in any under any attack is rallying around the flag. There are two questions: one, how long they can sustain this rally, and let's -- you know, as I've said, the Ukrainian strikes on Russia, when Russian population started feeling it, is now lasting more than a year and a half and furthermore, it's attacking Moscow, the heartland of Russia.

And also, let's remember, Russia, it's the economic elite, it's a security elite that also has a huge influence, and if they see things happening, especially in Crimea, somewhere where the fuel shortages are the worst, because it's a peninsula, it relies heavily on everything provided from mainland. The fear is that if Ukraine manages to choke off Crimea, there may be a real panic in the elites, whether Russia will be able to sustain this war treasure as where it started the war against Ukraine back in 2014 with the annexation of Crimea.

And if there is a risk of losing this price, there will be more pressure either to consider, you know, a certain removal of Putin or a serious negotiation with Ukraine to avoid accumulating defeat.

STOUT: Orysia, we'll see how this plays out, but we appreciate your astute analysis. Orysia Lutsevych joining us. Thank you.

OK, we are following updates out of Venezuela, where rescue crews are right now, they're trying to save a man stuck beneath the rubble of a shopping mall parking lot. Specialists from Portugal say that they have been in contact with this man, a 44-year-old security guard, and he has been trapped for more than a week now after those two deadly earthquakes.

According to Reuters, the operation, it is so risky it has taken the help of teams from multiple countries, and they have been watching this man around the clock. They have been giving him food and water until they can, hopefully, fingers crossed here, get him out.

Now, international crews are helping to make many other rescues as well, but it comes as the death toll has now risen to almost 2,300 people. About 2,000 U.S. troops are also assisting local volunteers in the search for the missing, and they say that they are fully focused on saving lives until they're told to leave.

Now, some families are holding out hope that they can find their missing loved ones, even though they haven't been seen since before the earthquakes over a week ago. But as unidentified bodies pile up in temporary morgues, it is clear not all of those reunions will happen as expected. Isa Soares is in Caracas with more.

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[02:10:05]

ISA SOARES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Venezuelans are still looking desperately, searching for their loved ones. A week since back-to-back earthquakes rocked this country.

At the main morgue in Caracas, I met a shell-shocked Karelis D'Wuentt.

KARELIS D'WUENTT, VENEZUELAN (through translator): They are under the rubble and I haven't been able to identify them.

SOARES (voice-over): Her 22-year-old brother was pulled out alive from the ruins by his own friend, but he succumbed to his injuries last night, and there's more

D'WUENTT (through translator): They are missing. My nephew, my cousins, my aunts.

SOARES (voice-over): She tells me a dozen family members are missing, three confirmed dead.

SOARES: The magnitude of loss has yet to be fully felt here in Venezuela, as families drift from hopeful to disbelief. There's a real sense of bewilderment, and now face the very painful task of having to track down their bodies.

SOARES (voice-over): I make my way to see a forensic pathologist who has just returned from the makeshift morgue in the hard-hit area of La Guaira. We meet in the car and protect our identity for fear of retaliation.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): We are seeing around 400 bodies every day. The bodies have not been identified, are being placed in refrigerators that are cargo trucks, they're containers.

SOARES: So, the containers are all full now? UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): Yes, they are full.

SOARES (voice-over): Shocking, but hardly surprising. Despite thousands missing, the official death toll is sitting at just over 2,000.

SOARES: Other numbers that we are getting from the government, are they trustworthy?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): No, those numbers are not trustworthy.

SOARES (voice-over): A blunt take from a frontline worker seeing death up close.

Isa Soares, CNN, Caracas, Venezuela.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

STOUT: Our search efforts continue across Venezuela, and aid groups are on the ground providing assistance to those affected. And for more information about how you can help the victims of this earthquake, you can either go to our website, CNN.com/impact or if you have your smartphone in your hand right now, pick it up, scan that QR code, scan the code that you see right there at the bottom right of your screen.

Now, Qatar says that there has been, "Positive progress after indirect talks between the U.S. and Iran in Doha." The Foreign Ministry said that Qatari and Pakistani mediators held separate meetings on Wednesday with delegations from the U.S. and Iran. Qatar says that the two sides agreed to continue discussions after progress on issues tied to the Memorandum of Understanding. And U.S. President Trump, well, he had this to say:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The denuclearization of Iran is moving along well. They've had very good meetings, and we'll see. We hit them very hard for three nights, as you know, but we're getting along very well. So, I call it the denuclearization, and it's all taking place. It's all going well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STOUT: Now, meanwhile, Iranian Foreign Minister Abbas Araghchi is warning of a, "Immediate powerful response to any Israeli attack, and urge the U.S. to restrain its ally." Now, he issued that threat after Israel's Defense Minister warned that the Iranian Supreme Leader, Mojtaba Khamenei, was, "Marked for death." Our CNN's Jeremy Diamond is in Jerusalem with more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: If anything, it is a reminder of just how much still needs to be done, not only to shore up the current memorandum of understanding between the United States and Iran. After it was on shaky ground over this weekend, we saw a series of kind of back and forth strikes around the Strait of Hormuz.

And but beyond shoring up the current MOU is also about getting to a final agreement, something that's supposed to take place over the course of the next 60 days, but which pretty much everyone assumes and expects is going to take a lot longer. That being said, what we've seen in Qatar over the last 48 hours has been described by both sides of the negotiating table as progress in these negotiations.

Progress that has certainly brought about de-escalating some of the tensions that had arisen over the weekend surrounding this agreement. But there weren't direct negotiations at the high level, at least as far as we understand it. Jared Kushner and Steve Witkoff, President Trump's Special Envoys on this issue, met with the Qatari Emir both yesterday and today.

And in between those meetings, the Emir met with senior Iranian officials as well, and that's how the negotiations were being conducted in Doha right now. In addition to the fact that there have been working groups that have been established to negotiate a final agreement here.

Beyond that, though, we do know that there are continued discussions around what's happening in Lebanon. And right now, what's been happening in Lebanon in recent days is continued Israeli strikes in Southern Lebanon, just yesterday, we saw the Israeli military said that they targeted a Hezbollah operative who was near that security area that the Israeli military is staying in right now, occupying in Southern Lebanon.

[02:15:25]

The Israeli Prime Minister has maintained that Israeli troops should have the freedom to operate as they see fit against any potential threats in Lebanon. In fact, just yesterday he visited Israeli troops in Southern Lebanon and told them that if you identify any threat to your safety, quote, act, do not wait, act.

We are watching as Iran has continued to maintain that a ceasefire and the withdrawal of Israeli troops in Lebanon is absolutely necessary to maintaining the current U.S.-Iran ceasefire, and also to advancing a final deal, but there are now kind of conflicting mechanisms it seems.

On the one hand, the agreement between the Israeli and Lebanese governments, which gives Israel a lot more freedom to act in Lebanon as it sees fit. And on the other hand, this kind of broader language that's included in the Memorandum of Understanding, which Iran has interpreted to mean a total ceasefire and the withdrawal of Israeli troops, which is not happening as of yet.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

STOUT: And that was Jeremy Diamond reporting. Now you're watching CNN NEWSROOM coming to you live from Hong Kong.

And this weekend's 250th birthday celebration in the U.S. will be a scorcher. Still ahead, we'll look at some of the record-breaking triple-digit temperatures many places can expect, as well as the conditions fueling dangerous wildfires in some western states.

Plus, the celebrations are underway in the U.S. as the men's national soccer team survives its first knockout round match of the World Cup. We'll have the details next.

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[02:21:30]

STOUT: Welcome back. Now the stars and stripes are shining bright. The U.S. men's World Cup team are celebrating their 2-0 win over Bosnia and Herzegovina. It was nearly halftime when the U.S. got their first goal. The controversial red card in the second half put them at a disadvantage, but midfielder Malik Tillman scored on a free kick in the 82nd minute to seal the victory. And now Team USA advances to the round of 16 with their next match on Monday against Belgium. Got more now from CNN World Sports Coy Wire.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COY WIRE, CNN WORLD SPORT: Well, if sports are an emotional roller coaster, this one skipped the breaks. American fans saw joy and panic, relief, and now euphoria, their World Cup dream is still very much alive, and it is full steam ahead. Fans wearing Stars and Stripes were flying high hours before kickoff, and once again the U.S. team came out breathing fire. Breakout star Folarin Balogun lit the fuse early, burying the opener and breaking out the LeBron James celebration. King James saw it and gave it his royal seal of approval on social media.

But then, plot twist, Balogun given a red card, so 30 nerve-wracking minutes of 10 Americans against 11, but Malik Tillman uncorked a laser 20 meters out after a yellow card that hit the back of the net like it had a boarding pass cue the bedlam, the U.S. win 2-0, first World Cup knockout wins his 2002 and only their second one ever. America is marching on to the round of 16. I asked the soft-spoken Tillman how he felt after he scored that second goal.

MALIK TILLMAN, U.S. MEN'S NATIONAL TEAM: I'm a different type of person on the pitch, of course. Maybe you know it, you don't really see my emotions, but and if he's got a goal notice, I mean, I think also you guys saw my emotions, and then that's a great feeling, and of course never pro moment for me.

CHRIS RICHARDS, U.S. MEN'S NATIONAL TEAM: I think it's a proud moment, and it's a moment that we can get a lot of confidence from. We've kept two clean sheets in last four games, and I think before then we didn't quite have the best record when it came to clean sheets again. It gives us a lot of confidence going to the metro.

WIRE: All right, next mountain to climb, Belgium in Seattle, and it comes with a glass case of emotions. Their top goal scorer ball against suspended after that red card.

For now, though, American fans are floating on cloud nine, maybe 10. Losing your top score could crack a team, or it could further forge one. Championship runs are rarely smooth. They are forged in moments exactly like this, and the next moment for these fans should also be a good one.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

STOUT: And that was CNN's Coy Wire.

Now, another action: England are through to the round of 16 after a 2- 1 victory over the Democratic Republic of Congo. Harry Kane scored twice in the second half to avoid what would have been one of the biggest upsets in World Cup history.

And Belgium are moving ahead after the 3-2 win over Senegal. The Red Devils trailed most of the match, but they managed to score three times late in the game. Including that penalty kick and extra time to seal the victory.

And three exciting matches are on tap for the round of 32 in the coming day. In fact, one of the tournament's favorites, Spain will take on Austria at Los Angeles Stadium, Cristiano Ronaldo, and Portugal will face the Blazers of Croatia in Toronto, and Switzerland will meet the Desert Warriors of Algeria in Vancouver.

And we are days away from July 4th, and President Trump is getting out to celebrate America 250 but is he putting himself at the center of the celebration?

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[02:29:51]

STOUT: Welcome back. Now, updating our top story: Ukraine is reeling from a massive barrage of Russian strikes that targeted cities across the country. Officials say that Kyiv was pummeled for 11 hours with drones and ballistic missiles overnight. The attack left at least 10 people dead, dozens injured.

Emergency crews are now recovering victims' remains from the rubble of collapsed buildings. Russia said it also struck targets in at least four other regions in Ukraine.

Ivan Watson is monitoring those developments from here in Hong Kong. He joins us now with more. And Ivan, what more have you learned about the aftermath of these Russian strikes on Ukraine?

IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it looks like the emergency workers in the Ukrainian capital are still digging through the rubble after this absolutely ferocious bombardment overnight. As city officials have put it, still digging for the bodies of some of the casualties.

The Ukrainian president had warned that it would be a dangerous night, and there'd been a mass movement of civilians into subway stations, which have served as shelters during the Russian bombardments over more than four years of this war. And yet, the death toll is still substantial here. At least 13 people killed, some 85 people wounded. The authorities saying that they're still working, again, through the rubble of buildings, residential buildings, that took direct hits. The Russian government, the defense ministry, said that it carried out a "massive strike" using high-precision, long-range weapons, including drones, and that it not only targeted Kyiv, but other cities like Dnipropetrovsk, Poltava, Cherkasy, and the Chernihiv region as well.

A devastating night in the Ukrainian capital, and an indicator, Kristie, of the escalation of an already deadly air war between Russia and Ukraine, where the Ukrainians have been pounding Russian refineries and cities with their own drone attacks over the course of the last week and causing, as a result, an impact on daily life in places like the Russian capital, where there have been fuel shortages reported, and shortages and lines at gas stations as a result of Ukrainian systematic drone attacks on Russian refineries. Kristie?

LU STOUT: Yeah, and that was exactly what our analyst from Chatham House was telling us at the top of the hour. She called this Russian response to those long-range Ukrainian drone strikes deep inside Moscow, Putin's revenge mission.

Ivan Watson, we'll leave it at that, but thank you so much for the update.

Now to another story, police in Belgium, they say that at least five people were killed after a fire ripped through an apartment block. This happened in Antwerp. And authorities there say a significant number of others were seriously injured.

Now, the 10-storey building is home to more than 200 people. Investigators, they haven't determined what sparked this fire, but they believe it started on the ground floor. And police in South Africa, they say that more than 900 people have been arrested during nationwide anti-migrant protests.

Authorities say that the majority of the 120 marches that were held on Tuesday were peaceful, but about a dozen of them saw unrest, prompting a police response.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TEBELLO MOSIKILI, DEPUTY NATIONAL POLICE COMMISSIONER: Some were arrested for public violence, some for harboring illegal immigrants in terms of immigration act, some for business robbery at spaza shops.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LU STOUT: Shops shuttered their doors ahead of Tuesday's demonstrations. And police reported looting at some locations, with officers deployed to several provinces overnight.

Now, America's 250th birthday celebrations will be taking place amid an intense heat wave. Nearly half of all Americans, that's about 150 million people, are under heat alerts this week. And many major cities on the East Coast will see record-setting triple-digit highs, and little relief for the July 4th holiday weekend. Some places are setting up cooling centers to help the residents cope.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLER: Yeah, what's with all the hoopla going on over there?

PILOT: Two geniuses climbed to the top of the Empire State Building at the top of the spire. It's a male, female dressed in black. They had some flag they were waving when they were up at the top. And he just proposed to her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LU STOUT: Wow, and that was the view from the top of the Empire State Building on Wednesday. The couple, well-known, especially on social media, for scaling skyscrapers, they climbed to the spire of the iconic landmark and they unfurled a banner. And by the time they made it to the ground, they were engaged and they were under arrest.

Our CNN's Jason Carroll has the story.

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the couple that caused so much chaos down here in the streets of New York because of what they were doing way up there on the top of the Empire State Building has been identified.

[02:35:00]

Ivan Kuznetsov, 32-years-old, and Angela Nikolau, 33-years-old. They're both from Orange, New Jersey and they face a number of charges including reckless endangerment, criminal trespass, criminal mischief, and burglary.

Now, we just got some new video in from the NYPD that they released late Wednesday showing what happened when they were finally able to bring this couple into custody. It all happened very calmly and in fact, at one point, Angela Nikolau said to the officer, I'm fine, I'm fine. The officer asked do you speak any other languages and she said Russian.

Now, this whole ordeal started at just about noon. That's when the initial call came in that two people dressed in black, wearing black masks, had somehow gotten to the top of the Empire State Building's antenna. And very quickly folks down here were speculating in terms of what was the motive? Why were they up there? What were they doing?

Well, that very quickly became apparent when you could see the couple hugging, kissing, and then at one point, the male got down on his knees and it was clear that this was some sort of high-flying engagement.

Well, we're going to have to see what they're going to have to price they're ultimately going to have to pay for their antics.

Down here on the ground we were talking to a lot of people who are out here on the lunch break, taking it all in.

Listen to what onlooker had to say. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ELISA MORALES, WITNESSED EMPIRE STATE BUILDING STUNT: I saw the banner. I understand the message. If it is a proposal, I don't think that's a proposal I would want, but I commend them for using something personal to try to make a more global impact.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARROLL: At one point, the couple unfurled a huge banner that read the following, "When the power of love beats the love of power, the world knows peace." Of course, a reference to Jimi Hendrix.

Investigators are still trying to determine how they were able to get past an area not open to the public and make their way up to the top of that spire. And this raises a lot of questions about security. The Empire State Building just a few blocks away from Madison Square Garden where the Taylor Swift event is going to be taking place on Thursday.

And again, on Friday, you also have the World Cup going on in New York. You've got the holiday weekend going on. This raises a whole host of questions about whether there should be increased security at other tourist sites such as the Empire State Building.

Jason Carroll, CNN, New York.

LU STOUT: Again, the thrill seekers now in custody. But did you see that view and that ring? Breathtaking. You're watching "CNN Newsroom."

Up next, a breakaway Catholic group is openly defying the Pope and a move that's considered a pretty serious violation of church law. We've got that story and much more right here on "CNN Newsroom."

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[02:42:31]

LU STOUT: Welcome back. Now, Pope Leo is facing the first major challenge to his papal authority. A breakaway group of traditionalist Catholics has ordained four bishops without the pope's approval.

Now, thousands attended the ordinations in Switzerland on Wednesday, performed by the Society of Saint Pius X. The group has rejected reforms made by the Catholic Church in recent decades. Early this week, Pope Leo warned that the ordinations would be a "schismatic act" and a "sin of extreme gravity."

Joining me now from New York is David Gibson, Director of the Center of Religion and Culture at Fordham University. David, thank you very much indeed for joining us here on the program.

You've written an op-ed on this topic. A breakaway group defied Pope Leo, and they went ahead with this ancient Latin mass on Wednesday. Explain to us, why is this a major crisis for the pontiff? DAVID GIBSON, DIRECTOR, CENTER ON RELIGION AND CULTURE, FORDHAM UNIVERSITY: Well, for a lot of reasons. It's a very technical reason in many ways. You've got this breakaway sect consecrating their own bishops. That's a total red line in Catholicism. Very hierarchical, juridical entity, the pope, the cardinals, the archbishops, et cetera.

You can't just go off and ordain your own bishops on your own without papal approval. That's automatic excommunication. But in a bigger sense, Pope Leo, the first American pope, he's been pope for just over a year now. One of his central themes, if not the central theme, is unity. In a polarized world and in a polarized church, he's all about unity, about being a communion, about coming together.

To have this breakaway sect a year into his pontificate do this is really a threat to everything that he's about.

LU STOUT: Yeah, especially as you said, Pope Leo has made unity a centerpiece of his pontificate. Could you tell us more about these traditionalist Catholics who defied the pope? Who are they? And why did they feel so compelled to go ahead with this ancient ceremony?

GIBSON: Well, they really stem from -- opposition is in their DNA. The Catholic Church, the Roman Catholic Church, had a great global meeting, a council, the Second Vatican Council, in the 1960s.

[02:45:00]

And they really opened the church to the world. They lifted the anathemas against Protestants. They ended the teachings of contempt against Judaism. They opened into religious dialog, religious freedom, really engaging with the modern world and part of that also was changing the liturgy, so that from -- in the old days, the priest was facing away from the congregation. Everything was in Latin, very perfunctory kind of ritualistic mass.

They wanted to change that and so you have the mass in your own language and the priest faces you when he's celebrating the Eucharist. So a lot of these changes happened. These groups said no. We don't -- it's not just about preserving the old style of mass. It's about rejecting all of these modern reforms that I was talking about, religious freedom, interreligious dialogue. So they've really -- since the 1960s, 1970s, they've broken away and they've said, you know, you're wrong. We are right. That's a classic schismatic kind of mentality.

No, Pope. You're wrong.

LU STOUT: Yeah.

GIBSON: We're the ones who are right.

LU STOUT: So does this come down to nostalgia and this unquestioning belief that things were better in the past?

GIBSON: Very much so. I think there's this pining for a golden era, you know, there's a lot of this kind of nostalgia for the Middle Ages when men were men, women were women, and the mass was in Latin.

(LAUGH)

GIBSON: You know, and you launch crusades against people in the Middle East who weren't like you. So it is -- there is that kind of nostalgism. And again, this -- the real danger is, this isn't just in the Catholic Church. You see this around the world and a lot of these nationalist populist movements. It's this kind of nostalgia for a better time.

It's like that novel "Yesteryear" playing up on the whole tradwife trend. It's that kind of feeling, that pining for this perceived Golden Age. But it's also about the diversification of the Catholic Church since the 1960s.

LU STOUT: Yeah.

GIBSON: Since the church, the Catholic Church opened to the modern world, the church has grown by leaps and bounds in the southern hemisphere. Africa, Asia, Latin America --

LU STOUT: Yeah.

GIBSON: This movement, this breakaway movement is very much a white European movement.

LU STOUT: David, this is such a fascinating discussion on this moment and how it poses a challenge to both Pope Leo and church unity. We'll leave it at that. David Gibson, thank you.

GIBSON: Thank you. Great to be with you

LU STOUT: Now, I want to show you this. This is new video of President Trump's a Great American State Fair on the National Mall where sparse crowds were seen earlier. This was ahead of the July 4th holiday and this is just one of several events that the president has planned to mark America's 250th anniversary. As Jeff Zeleny reports, Trump is making sure that he remains at the center of the celebrations.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): He flew on his new plane. And for the first time as president, he rode on a train. Donald Trump is making a splash heading into Independence Day, a celebration of America's 250th anniversary and himself.

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: On July 4th, it's going to be approximately 107 degrees out, and I'm going to go and I'm going to make a really long speech. Just to show that I can do anything.

ZELENY (voice-over): He visited the Badlands of North Dakota today. His motorcade escorted by Rough Riders on horseback. He toured the new Theodore Roosevelt Presidential Library, saying tributes to the 26th president and offering himself one. TRUMP: It's a part of the country that I love and I think they love me because I have the all-time record in presidential voting.

ZELENY (voice-over): This year-long grand celebration of America has often felt like more of a presidential vanity project, placing the Trump imprint far beyond the normal trappings of the office. While the president has long wrapped himself in the flag, quite literally, during this memorable moment at a conservative gathering in his first term, America 250 has taken things to a new Trumpian high.

He commandeered planning for the celebrations, bypassing the bipartisan America 250 organization enacted by Congress a decade ago, in favor of Freedom 250, a separate group he and his allies control. His renovation projects have spouted up across Washington and his face now adorns many government buildings.

At this moment of American history, Trump is placing himself at the center of it all to the delight of his admirers like Tiffany Bolgrean, who came from Fargo to see him today.

[02:50:00]

TIFFANY BOLGREAN, AMERICAN CITIZEN, FARGO, NORTH DAKOTA: Best president in the world of our time and what he's stood up for and what he's done for this country and what he's been up against. I mean, the man is incredible.

ZELENY (voice-over): From a UFC fight on the South Lawn of the White House to a visit Friday to Mount Rushmore, reprising the stop he made in 2020.

TRUMP: There could be no better place to celebrate America's independence.

ZELENY (voice-over): Trump's handling of the semi-quincentennial is a far cry from the nation's bicentennial in 1976, when President Gerald Ford took pains to remove partisan politics from an American celebration. In his autobiography, "A Time to Heal," Ford wrote, "Rarely in the history of the world had so many people turned out so spontaneously to express the love they felt for their country."

Trump has taken the opposite approach, making himself the star of the show. Yet as the weekend finale approaches, the modest attendance at the GREAT AMERICAN STATE FAIR is sparking anxiety inside the White House.

TRUMP: Then on July 4th, we will have the greatest show of all on the National Mall. Your favorite president will be speaking, so please show up.

ZELENY (voice-over): The president's words offered a telling window into one of his biggest fears, a small crowd.

TRUMP: Because if we have two empty seats, you know what's going to happen? The fake news is going to say he didn't fill out the arena.

ZELENY (voice-over): Jeff Zeleny, CNN, Medora, North Dakota.

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LU STOUT: We'll be right back.

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LU STOUT: Excitement is building in New York City ahead of the expected wedding celebrations for Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce. Now, sources are revealing new details about when and where the ceremony will take place. The massive celebration afterwards and the elaborate precautions being taken to keep the festivities and the star-studded guest list all under wraps.

Here's CNN's Brynn Gingras.

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BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN U.S. NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The Easter eggs keep dropping all across New York City.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I feel so excited.

GINGRAS (voice-over): Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce are expected to tie the knot in Madison Square Garden with a rehearsal planned for Thursday, a source tells CNN. It's being held in the theater section of MSG. Roughly 100 people are expected to attend.

And then Friday, the main event. A source tells CNN the wedding is expected to take place on the arena floor at 5:30, with the party lasting into the morning hours.

Preparations for the two-day event underway, as workers, this one spotted wearing a Swift Carpenters t-shirt, working through the night to transform the iconic venue into what reportedly will be a garden wonderland.

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Tarps have been put up at MSG's loading dock, trucks are being parked in precarious ways, a tent is expected to be erected soon.

And sources tell CNN 500 vehicles are expected to drop off wedding guests inside the world's most famous arena, all out of the view of the public eye.

GINGRAS: What are we so excited about for Taylor?

GRACE KILLEA, SWIFTIE: I want to see what it's going to look like on the inside. Like, I've never pictured a wedding being at MSG ever, because there's no natural lighting and stuff, so I'm very curious of what it's going to be like, how they're going to decorate. I'm sure it's very over-the-top, like it's unlimited, so.

STEVIE NICKS, AMERICAN SINGER-SONGWRITER: Hi, how are you? GINGRAS (voice-over): Stevie Nicks expected to perform, according to published reports, in front of roughly a thousand guests. Among them, we know will be San Francisco 49ers star and Kelce friend, George Kittle.

GEORGE KITTLE, TIGHT END, SAN FRANCISCO 49ERS: Yeah, we'll be there. (Inaudible) I'll be there. I'm wearing a blue suit, so that's all I got. I'm expecting there to just be a jumbo jet on a runway and they put us on a plane somewhere.

GINGRAS (voice-over): The New York Times reports it will be a black tie affair, and no phones or cameras are allowed inside. It appears Taylor may already be in town. Her private plane arrived at a nearby airport Wednesday.

The future Mrs. Kelce's big day is happening in the midst of New York City's summer madness, the World Cup, the Knicks' recent championship win, a heat wave, and, oh, celebrations for America turning 250. Security is expected to ramp up in Midtown.

JESSICA TISCH, COMMISSIONER, NYPD: NYPD will, of course, have a detail in place, but I am not going to go into more specifics on that.

GINGRAS (voice-over): As for the Swifties, no doubt they will continue looking for clues, many of them already gathering outside MSG.

CATHERINE MCGETRICK, SWIFTIE: If I was having the biggest wedding of the century, I would do the same. I want to pack as many of my close, cool, famous friends in as possible. Why not have everybody in the most famous arena? Hello?

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GINGRAS (on camera): And if you're wondering why someone who can literally get married anywhere in the world chose Madison Square Garden as the likely venue, well, it is infamously secure. There are no windows in this building. As I mentioned, there are underground tunnels and garages where we're learning guests will be going in and out of, so they're undetected by the paparazzi.

And we are also learning now that the police may shut down the streets around Madison Square Garden for the next two days while these events are happening.

Brynn Gingras, CNN, New York.

LU STOUT: A prehistoric giant is heading to the auction block for Sotheby's Geek Week in New York. It's a nearly 40-foot skeleton of a T-Rex named Gus, and it's expected to fetch up to $30 million. This is one of the most complete specimens ever discovered. It was found in South Dakota's Hell Creek Formation and dates back about 67 million years.

Well, thank you for watching. I'm Kristie Lu Stout in Hong Kong. "CNN Newsroom" continues with Polo Sandoval, after this. [02:58:05]

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