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Trump Ramps Up Pressure On Media As NYT Reporters Subpoenaed; Trump Fires Members Of Election Commission Ahead Of Midterms; Witness Dispute ICE Account Of Deadly Houston Shooting; Hearing For Accused Charlie Kirk Killer; Trump Declares Ceasefire Over In Iran; City Of New York Launches Inquiry Into Buckling High-Rise. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired July 11, 2026 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:00]

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN HOST: What are you learning?

JULIA BENBROOK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We are hearing from sources that he has been frustrated with these recent reports related to security concerns concerning the new Air Force One which is a gift from Qatar.

Now, he decided -- someone decided not to fly this plane directly from Turkey back to the United States last week. He was there attending the NATO summit, and we also know that FBI director Kash Patel before these subpoenas went out that Patel was here at the White House yesterday. And he was meeting with officials about the bureau's investigation into security concerns related to this new jet.

He was seen on camera, CNN's camera, leaving the White House around 7:00 p.m. yesterday. We also know that he spoke on the phone, according to one source, with Trump about this investigation. "The Times" is reporting that four of its journalists have been subpoenaed to testify in Manhattan on Wednesday and that federal agents delivered those subpoenas, some of them directly to reporters' homes.

"The Times" has vowed that they will fight this court order. And the -- one of the attorneys for the newsroom went on to say this in a statement, quote, "The appearance of federal law enforcement agents on the doorstep of news reporters should shock the conscience of any American who believes in the Constitution and the press freedom it protects," adding, "This brazen act should be seen as nothing more than an attempt to prevent the public from knowing what is happening in their country by intimidating journalists from doing their job."

CNN has reached out to the White House and the U.S. attorney's office in Manhattan for comment. But these subpoenas suggest that the Trump administration is trying to find out who leaked to "The Times" before they reported about these security concerns. When the switch of planes was made, Trump was asked about all of this by reporters, and he said that the change was made so that U.S. service members would have a chance to see the jet up close and personal.

These were service members stationed at England's Mildenhall Air Force Base. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Do you think there wasn't a security concern?

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Oh, no. Why would --

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Was there any other issue? No issue on the plane?

TRUMP: No. No. Except -- except we sent it a little early. Same line going back. And we sent it a little bit early so that we could let them see at the base. The whole base came out and saw the plane.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BENBROOK: And then, Fred, just wanted to go through some of the timeline here. All of this happened fairly quickly. It was May 2025 that the United States accepted the new plane from Qatar. June 19th, Trump unveiled the plane at Joint Base Andrews. July 1st, the new plane made its first trip to North Dakota, so that was fairly recently. And then on July 8th, Trump left NATO on the old plane before then switching back.

WHITFIELD: All right, Julia Benbrook at the White House, thank you so much.

Brian, let me bring you in here now. You've got the subpoenas going to -- for "New York Times" journalists. I mean, there's precedence. There was a "Washington Post" reporter whose material was seized during, you know, a home entry. What's going on here?

BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA ANALYST: Yes. This is personal for President Trump, this particular case. He's been angry about the news reports involving this new plane. He said one thing to the public. He seemed to be lying. Government sources said another thing to the public, indicating he was lying. And then Trump was angry about that news coverage. Angry about being contradicted by his own government, by anonymous officials who seem to be trying to get the truth out about why this plane switch happened.

So on one level, this is just very personal for the president. Getting angry, getting embarrassed by "The New York Times" and other news outlets reporting what is actually going on with the plane. So you see that. You hear that. You hear about Kash Patel being at the White House yesterday for meetings about this. And then we hear about the subpoenas delivered to the homes of these "Times" reporters.

What it shows is that the subpoena power of the government, an extraordinary power that has been controversial for quite some time, is being weaponized and used by this administration in a way that it's not been by other past administrations. Now, there have been other episodes in the Obama years, for example, of journalists being subpoenaed and those were widely criticized at the time.

But historically, we've seen the subpoena power be used against journalists as a last resort of the Justice Department. At least that's what they would say in the past, that we only did this as a last resort. What we're seeing from the Trump administration is that they're using the subpoena power as a first step. Within days of opening a leak investigation, within days of a story being published, they are immediately subpoenaing these "Times" reporters. So that is troubling and new.

You mentioned the "Washington Post" earlier this year. There was also a case of "Wall Street Journal" and a "Post" reporter all subpoenaed this spring.

[15:05:02]

There was a secret fight behind the scenes trying to stop that subpoena process. And eventually the DOJ did drop those subpoenas. So now "The New York Times," in a similar situation where it has to fight these subpoenas and try to ensure that its reporters are not forced to testify about who the sources were.

The apparent existence of a leak probe also indicates the leaks were accurate, and that the security concerns about the plane are real. I mean, let's lay it out that way. You wouldn't bother investigating leaks if the leaks were lies. So Trump accepted a highly unusual gift that critics have likened as a bribe. He was eager to show it off. He was eager to fly it. Maybe the government felt pressure to get the plane ready.

Were shortcuts taken? There are real security questions here, and now on top of those security questions, Fred, are these journalistic questions because "The New York Times" is now going to be in a fight that every other newsroom is going to be watching to ensure that journalistic freedoms are protected in the U.S.. But I think ultimately, this is about the president's evident dishonesty because government officials were speaking anonymously about the security concerns, trying to correct what President Trump said on Truth Social.

So at the end of the day, you have a situation here where the president said one thing. Government sources are saying another, and newsrooms are trying to report the truth.

WHITFIELD: All very important questions and concerns.

Brian Stelter, thank you so much.

STELTER: Yes. Thanks.

WHITFIELD: The Trump administration has fired the leadership of the Election Assistance Commission. The EAC, a bipartisan commission, provides funding and security guidance to election officials, such as certifying voting equipment. The firings come as election officials have raised concerns over federal interference ahead of the midterms, including Trump's attempts to control mail-in voting systems and voter registration.

And all of this is worrying some Democrats who say the groundwork is being laid for a slow-moving Trump takeover of the midterm elections. Florida Democratic Congresswoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz says she is hearing growing anxiety from her constituents. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. DEBBIE WASSERMAN SCHULTZ (D-FL): I have voters telling me that they're worried that the president is going to cancel elections, that he's going to declare martial law. There are people who are actually have said to me that they're worried that they're not even going to have elections in November.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: CNN's Zach Wolf joins me right now.

Zach, your article published today on CNN.com breaks down what this fear is all about. What's at the root?

ZACH WOLF, CNN POLITICS SENIOR WRITER: Yes, I think that there are legitimate concerns about what the White House and President Trump are trying to do about elections. She talked about, you know, the attempts to take over and use the Postal Service against states if they don't comply with this order about, you know, a federal registry of voter registrations that he wants to make. That's, you know, stuck in court.

There's the election -- EAC, you mentioned. That doesn't really play too much of a role in every elections. So there's this kind of divide between a concern among Democrats that has political value for them, it will help them get out the vote, about, you know, what some people have effectively called an attempted takeover of elections, were federal takeover of elections by the White House.

And the reality on the ground, which is courts are standing in the way of a lot of this stuff. Votes will be cast and they will be counted. There's nothing that really suggests the system itself is under threat, but that's not going to stop people's imaginations from running wild, especially with this administration.

WHITFIELD: And when you do, you know, step back and look at all of this together, you know, what's the bigger picture? Is this a series of unrelated moves, or do Democrats see a broader strategy from the White House taking shape here?

WOLF: There is clearly a broader strategy to put more of the federal government in elections. Trump has talked kind of offhandedly about essentially trying to nationalize elections. It doesn't seem like he's going to be able to do specifically that kind of thing. But you can definitely see in what they've tried to do with the Postal Service, kind of denuding the EAC, and the Federal Election Commission also is unable to operate normally because they effectively fired some commissioners.

So they're kind of trying to take apart this larger infrastructure of things that's supposed to protect our elections. But that doesn't necessarily mean that it's going to affect the way people vote in November.

WHITFIELD: All right. All fascinating reporting. Zach Wolf, thank you so much. WOLF: Thanks.

WHITFIELD: All right. Still to come, new calls for an investigation into a deadly shooting by an ICE agent. Multiple witnesses dispute what ICE agents say happened.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:14:25]

WHITFIELD: Now, to the growing outrage over a deadly police shooting in Houston this morning. Family members, labor leaders and others in the Houston community gathered for a vigil to mourn 52-year-old Lorenzo Salgado Araujo, who was shot and killed by an ICE agent on his way to work on Tuesday. ICE officials claim the agent opened fire after Salgado Araujo rammed a law enforcement vehicle and refused to obey commands.

But according to three men who were also in the van when the shooting occurred, ICE's version of events is not correct.

[15:15:00]

Videos obtained by CNN show the van being pursued by two black SUVs without apparent law enforcement markings. But so far, the Department of Homeland Security has not released any footage of the shooting, and none of the agents involved had been issued body worn cameras. A source tells CNN that he was not the target of the operation.

CNN's Carolina Peguero is joining us right now.

Carolina, what can you tell us about today's vigil?

CAROLINA PEGUERO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we know that the family members, the community, and everybody has just riled around the family of Lorenzo Salgado Araujo after his tragic death on Tuesday, July 7th, being shot and killed by an ICE agent during an ICE operation in the small community of the East End in Magnolia Park.

Now, at this vigil was very emotional, very intimate. They were joined by state and local officials, including Congresswoman Sylvia Garcia and Al Green. They prayed and they lit candles. And then towards the end of this vigil, the sons of Lorenzo were there, Ronaldo and Lorenzo Junior, and they just wanted to thank the community for the support that they have received during this time.

They shared some details, too, of some of the things that has just troubled them. They have not been able to receive information from authorities as far as just the whereabouts, what happened to their father, moments leading to his death. And also they have not received his phone, his van and his belongings. And they shared that their mother has been heavily impacted by the passing of their father.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RONALDO SALGADO, SON OF MAN SHOT BY ICE AGENT: I've been looking for answers since 7:00 a.m. on Tuesday as to where my dad is and as to like what happened to him. I really hope I'm making him proud.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You are.

SALGADO: I really hope that, you know, he's proud of the big brother I've become, of the man that I've become today. And I will continue to keep fighting for him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're with you, Ronnie.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We love you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEGUERO: And the sons of Lorenzo stand firm on wanting a transparent and an independent investigation on what happened to their father.

While we're here at the Conroe, Montgomery ICE Detention Center, where the three men that were with Lorenzo in that van, including his brother, who was a passenger, they have given written statements of what happened, and they are right now receiving a visit from their lawyers, as well as Congresswoman Sylvia Garcia.

We're hoping to find out more on what will happen to them, as well as if they have any more details to share -- Fred.

WHITFIELD: And then what do you know might be next for these various investigations underway?

PEGUERO: Like you said, Fred, there are several investigations going on. Just yesterday, the mayor of Houston, as well as the Houston police chief, they have now said they are going to have their independent investigation, as well as the district attorney's office. And then ICE has also said they're investigating on what happened.

Now, we do know at this moment from state officials that the ICE agents were removed from their duties here in Houston. However, we don't know where they are, their names, their identities, or if they're still continuing their responsibilities in the state of Texas.

WHITFIELD: All right. Carolina Peguero, thank you so much.

Coming up, a very important week in court for the man accused of killing conservative activist Charlie Kirk. We'll speak to a criminal defense attorney that specializes in murder trials and get her takeaways from court.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:23:22]

WHITFIELD: All right. Hundreds of people have been rescued from catastrophic flooding in Missouri on Friday, including more than 200 campers and counselors who had to be evacuated by helicopter. The river near the camp swelled to historic heights following heavy rain. The Army National Guard flew the trapped campers to a nearby elementary school, where they were reunited with their families. And new video shows major damage in Reynolds County, where a building

collapse prompted search and rescue operations for 17 people. All of them have since been rescued or accounted for, but there could be more heavy rainfall headed to the area.

Meteorologist Melissa Nord has the forecast.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MELISSA NORD, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Fred, we had tremendous rain amounts. Some of those rain rates two inches per hour, falling on this really mountainous terrains heading down into the Black River. But at this point today, that really critical flooding threat is actually going to get lower by the end of today. We are still under a flood watch in southeastern Missouri, including Iron and Reynolds Counties there. And those flood watches stretch all the way as far east as the Ohio Valley and the Appalachian Mountains as well.

The risk of excessive rainfall today, level two out of four there in southeastern Missouri. You can see we've got some activity on radar through the rest of this afternoon and evening. Some isolated rain amounts could be an additional two or more inches. But the focus of heavy rainfall by the second half of the weekend is going to move a little bit further south. That will target areas across the southeast, helping to dry things out a little bit in Missouri.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: All right, Melissa Nord, thank you so much.

[15:25:02]

All right. Don't forget CNN's new weather app has all the insight you need about conditions in your area and beyond. You can get it now in the Apple app store.

All right. Let's talk about some pivotal legal cases. Colt Gray, the teenager who allegedly shot and killed two students and two teachers at a Georgia high school in 2024, will appear in court later on this month for a plea and sentence hearing, indicating that he will change his plea to guilty. The 16-year-old faces 55 criminal counts, including felony murder and malice murder.

And then in Utah, there are new details in the case of Charlie Kirk's accused killer, who completed his preliminary hearing this week. The prosecution and defense both presented some of their evidence. The judge will now determine if there is probable cause to support the charges against the defendant.

Boston criminal defense attorney Elyse Hershon is joining us now to discuss these cases.

Good to see you. Let's talk about the Georgia case involving Colt Gray, this teenager. We're now months away from his trial, his scheduled trial on the shooting at Apalachee High School. So why might he now change his plea to a guilty plea? ELYSE HERSHON, BOSTON CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Good afternoon, and

thanks so much for having me on your show. So this was a little bit of a surprise, but also it really benefits both sides here if a plea were to go through. It benefits the prosecution because there is a large expense for a trial. Right? And if you remember, Colt's father, Colin Gray, was already on trial for charges related to this. So this second trial would involve retraumatizing witnesses, victims' families, and, you know, it's a horrific case.

So it's in the prosecution's benefit to potentially go forward with a plea deal. Of course, it's up to the defendant. With regards to the defendant, you know, he was a minor when he committed this, although the death penalty in Georgia is not constitutional for minors, it could really help as a mitigating factor to potentially get him a chance at parole down the road.

WHITFIELD: OK. And now let's shift gears to another high profile case in Utah. Tyler Robinson, the accused killer of Charlie Kirk, and the judge in this case will decide whether it will go to trial after that five-day preliminary hearing this week. However, there might be more testimonies that come, right, in September. How unusual is this style?

HERSHON: This is how it works in Utah. So in Massachusetts, we call it a probable cause hearing. In Utah, they call it a preliminary hearing. Essentially, they're testing the weight of the evidence. This is a way for -- to make sure that there's not weak evidence to accuse someone of such horrific crimes. So it's a way to test that. And we actually got a preview in a little bit of a mini-trial this week. It went on for five days. And there were witnesses called by both sides.

WHITFIELD: Yes, I heard it described like that, like a mini-trial. And, you know, the defense attorneys for Tyler Robinson are saying, wait a minute. If you reveal all this evidence now, it's going to make it very difficult to seat a jury. Yet we didn't necessarily hear anything about a change of venue. Is that a reasonable argument to make, impactful in any way?

HERSHON: Absolutely. The media coverage here was a huge issue just in this preview, right, this preliminary hearing this week. There was a lot of back and forth about, you know, the whole thing is about poisoning the potential future jury pool. So the prosecution wants more of the evidence to come out to help them drum up support for their side of the case. But the defense says, hey, our defendant, our client has 14th Amendment due process rights.

He has a right to a fair trial without tainting or poisoning the pool, basically giving out information or evidence that may not be admissible at the trial if it gets to that point, but people are already forming opinions and it's very dangerous for the justice system.

WHITFIELD: Some evidence was revealed, but then there are some evidence that was withheld. What's the psychology here or the strategy?

HERSHON: Yes. So there's pros and cons to both. So the prosecution gave as much evidence or showed as much evidence as they needed to and from their camp to show probable cause. So remember, when we are talking about a jury trial or a bench trial, which is not what happened this week, it's beyond a reasonable doubt. This is testing. This is probable cause. This is about likelihoods, much lower.

So the prosecution does not have to show their entire hand full of evidence. But -- so what we did not hear, you know, we heard a lot. We heard of the roommate of Tyler Robinson, who purportedly was in a relationship with. We heard a recorded interview and saw clips of that for the first time.

[15:30:04]

We saw photos of the engravings of the bullets, multiple bullets with different phrases on it. We heard about three alleged, what the prosecution is saying are confessions, a Discord conversation, a note and text messages from Tyler Robinson purporting to be confessing to shooting Charlie Kirk. And we saw surveillance video. But we did not see or hear computer evidence, Google searches, any sort of information on his computer, on his phone relating to Charlie Kirk, and we did not hear any -- what's called CSLI data or tracking data on someone's phone to put them at a time or place. The prosecution I think held that back strategically.

WHITFIELD: I see, and those are things that would help establish intent, malice but also -- which would substantiate some of the charges.

HERSHON: Absolutely. And potentially put him at the scene.

WHITFIELD: All right. Elyse Hershon, thank you so much for bringing your expertise. Appreciate it.

HERSHON: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: All right. Straight ahead of this week, we saw very public calls for violence against President Trump on display in Iran. What could this mean in the path to find peace?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:35:55]

WHITFIELD: All right, new details just in to CNN as leaders try to resurrect talks with the U.S. and Iran. Oman has drafted a proposal to manage traffic in the Strait of Hormuz. A source with knowledge of the talks tells CNN that this would be done through two separately controlled routes. These developments come after President Trump returned this week from a NATO summit in Turkey.

The alliance reiterated that Iran must not obtain a nuclear weapon, but the U.S. clashed with European leaders for their lack of support.

I'm joined now by the former U.S. ambassador to NATO, Ivo Daalder, for analysis. Ambassador, great to see you. President Trump said the ceasefire is

over, his words, and called leaders of Iran scum. So are talks in Oman viable or promising or not?

IVO DAALDER, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO NATO: Well, the president is still stuck in the same box he's been in since shortly after this war started, when the Iranians closed the Strait of Hormuz. The bombing campaign for the first six weeks didn't open up the straits. The ceasefire for the next three months didn't open up the straits. The memorandum of understanding that was decided didn't open up the strait.

And so the question now for the president is, if he wants an open strait, what is he willing to do? He can try to return to bombing. He can try to return to negotiation, or he can try to let other people try to solve this. And I think that's what's really happening. Oman is now working with Iran, with the international agencies, to find a way to allow shipping to go through the Strait of Hormuz, but presumably with some kind of payment, either voluntary or some kind of payment that gets paid by people who cross the strait.

That's a fundamental change from what existed the day before the United States started bombing. And that's one of the strategic consequences, strategic losses that we have had by going to war.

WHITFIELD: So another option here, while the U.S. wants Iranian officials to say the Hormuz is open, of course, you know, Iran has, you know, established that this is its leverage, right, so they would want something in return. What would be the latest thing that Iran might offer as a request of what they get in return to give the U.S. these kinds of assurances it's been wanting all along?

DAALDER: Well, presumably those financial assurances that were part of the memorandum of understanding, lifting of sanctions, the unfreezing of assets that are being held by other countries, and indeed the enabling the Iranians to sell for the first time in decades oil on the free market, which would bring in significant revenue. I think that's what the Iranians want. That's, I think, what the Iranians thought they had gotten in the memorandum of understanding.

That memorandum didn't say the strait will be open forever without any tolling. It only said that the Iranians would make their best efforts to open it up in 30 days, and that after 60 days, a new arrangement would be worked out with Oman. So as far as the Iranians are concerned, it's the United States at this time that is -- that is not upholding the deal.

Now, the Americans rightly, I think, are saying, well, you shouldn't be firing on ships, because that is also inconsistent with the memorandum of understanding. But I think what the Iranians want is money. They think they have leverage over us. They've demonstrated this, and more so than they have had in the past, and they're not going to give it up unless they're going to get something real in return.

WHITFIELD: An errant sect of the Iranian regime is, you know, being blamed by current Iranian leaders for those recent attacks. Do you believe that, too?

DAALDER: You know, I don't know. It's very hard to penetrate what's happening inside Iran. I noticed there was an excellent piece by the Iran correspondent of "The New York Times," a few days ago that did talk about the very hard line people who were unhappy with the memorandum of understanding that were close to the government.

[15:40:06]

Clearly, this government is far more hard line than the one that was in place before the war started. Even more hard line than under Ayatollah Khamenei, the supreme leader. The new supreme leader and the IRGC are clearly in control, and within them, there are hardliners. Whether there is an errant sect or not, I don't know. I don't think anybody can really tell. But there's no doubt in my mind that the Iranians want control of the strait. It's the big thing that we gave them by going to war. They're not going to give it back.

WHITFIELD: During that funeral, we saw a number of banners and signs. There was one that said, "Hey, Trump, we will kill you." You know, it might that be a reflection of these errant sects or is there growing sentiment among Iranians as a whole of their displeasure of, you know, their anxiety toward the U.S. and President Trump?

DAALDER: Well, clearly the United States started a war that by international law was illegal against the Iranian regime. The top leadership of that regime was killed in the early hours of the beginning of the war. There was a promise by the president when the war started that he would come to the aid and support of the people of Iran to overthrow the government. None of that has happened. In fact, he's called this new leadership until recently moderates, people you can do business with, the far better regime than we had before.

He even said there have been regime change in a positive direction. So I think there are a lot of disappointed people in Iran and the fact that there are parts of the Iranian regime that wanting to take out the president of the United States is nothing new. They made that very clear after the killing of the IRGC commander Soleimani in 2020. There have been threats to the president's life for many years.

Indeed, there are threats to other Americans' lives, including the former secretary of state, Mike Pompeo, and former National Security adviser John Bolton. Both of whom had Secret Service protection until the president took it away when he returned to office. So the Iranians are not a nice regime. They are state sponsors of terrorism, the biggest state sponsor of terrorism. They have demonstrated that in the past. And we shouldn't be surprised that they continue to do that in the future, particularly this more hardline regime.

WHITFIELD: All right. We'll leave it there for now. Ambassador Ivo Daalder, always great to have you. Thank you so much.

DAALDER: My pleasure, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: All right, straight ahead, many questions remain following the evacuations set off by some buckling columns inside a New York high rise under construction. We've got a new look into how to prevent that from becoming a disaster.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:47:34]

WHITFIELD: Welcome back. New York City's Department of Investigation has opened an inquiry after columns in a Manhattan high rise buckled earlier this week, forcing emergency evacuations. The 1970s era office building, once the Pfizer headquarters, is undergoing a renovation to convert it into 1600 luxury apartments. Temporary structural supports and beams have been installed on several floors of the building to stabilize it.

With us now is professional engineer and structural engineering professor at Drexel University, Ableyuwa Aghayere.

Professor, how did I do?

ABLEYUWA AGHAYERE, PROFESSOR OF STRUCTURAL ENGINEERING, DREXEL UNIVERSITY: You did good.

WHITFIELD: Excellent.

AGHAYERE: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: OK, good. All right, on to this business now. So how out of the ordinary is this?

AGHAYERE: It is rare. We don't expect columns to buckle in buildings where we expect them to stand straight.

WHITFIELD: Indeed. And, you know, I wonder if these temporary supports then put in place as a result of the buckling, is that going to be enough?

AGHAYERE: It's temporary, as you said. You know, now they will have to figure out why did these columns buckle. It's either as a result of a design error, a construction error, material degradation, or was there an overload or was there any external factors. Once they figure that out, then they can replace the columns if the -- if this project is going to continue. They can replace the columns and then continue with the project.

WHITFIELD: So how might the developers go about making these kinds of discoveries early on, as opposed to what it appears to be the result of their renovation project? I mean, is this something that could be averted? I mean, to see kind of buckling columns when you're trying to convert a building that has been of use in one way, and now trying to change its use.

AGHAYERE: So changing from one use to another is not impossible. It just takes -- you know, you've got to be meticulous about what's going to happen because there's going to be holes caught in the floors because you're changing the use. You're going to be reframing. So all hands need to be on deck.

[15:50:03]

The, you know, the contractor needs to follow the drawings that from the design engineer, the design engineer needs to be meticulous about knowing what exists in the existing building to make sure that whatever they design, the loads are going to go safely down to the ground. So it's not -- you know, there are many other buildings that have been converted in New York City so this is not the first one.

WHITFIELD: Mm-hmm. If it were cost, you know, that, you know, would dictate, you know, the renovation ideas, how, you know, developers or engineers might proceed here, would it ultimately have been more cost effective and safer to demolish an existing building or demolish those existing supports or framework and start over?

AGHAYERE: Well, there are advantages to reusing buildings, what we call them adaptive reuse of buildings. First of all, you have a greener structure. You know, you have a more sustainable structure, and you tend to also be able to keep the historical and architectural heritage of the building.

Now demolishing a building in New York City is not child's play because, you have buildings that are shoulder to shoulder. So demolishing a high rise building is going to be very, very costly as well. So in terms of cost, I think reuse, you know, adaptive reuse is something that has been promoted in New York and has gone on for quite a while. There are examples like Moynihan Hall is an adaptive reuse. One Wall Street is an example of an adaptive reuse. So there are many conversions like that that have gone on in the past.

WHITFIELD: Yes. Of course, the adaptive reuse much, you know, much more greener, especially as, you know, people are trying to figure out ways to be more productive in that realm. So I wonder at this juncture, what do you suppose the road ahead is for this building in terms of redesigning or reconsidering how they would have proceeded to make sure it's both safe, you know, a greener building, so to speak, and still ultimately useful for residential occupancy?

AGHAYERE: Yes. What will happen right now -- thank you for that question. What will really happen right now is that the investigators will figure out what actually caused these columns to buckle. Again, like I said previously, columns are not supposed to buckle in our building. So what caused it to buckle? Is it one of those five categories or a combination of them? And is it pervasive? Is it widespread or is it isolated? If it's isolated and it's not going to cost an arm and a leg to fix the building, then they will continue with the project. But if it is pervasive, then that might delay the project a bit.

WHITFIELD: All right. Glad to have you, Drexel University professor, Ableyuwa Aghayere. Appreciate it.

AGHAYERE: My pleasure.

WHITFIELD: We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [15:57:56]

WHITFIELD: CNN Heroes is kicking off its 20th year celebrating good news and good people. The first CNN Hero of 2026 is building tiny homes in Syracuse, New York, offering unhoused people shelter, dignity and support to rebuild their lives.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDREW LUNETTA, FOUNDER AND EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, A TINY HOME FOR GOOD: We take for granted the stability that a home affords us. If you were to just imagine doing anything without a house like, oh, no, that's what I have to get first. That is where our tenants are coming from constantly. A tiny home is a really, really solid model because it pairs this independent and also private living.

RHEA HOLMES, A TINY HOME FOR GOOD RESIDENT: I wish people understood that the homeless population are still human. At any time, circumstances can change.

I was living at my husband's grave for eight months. My whole life was turned upside down. When I finally got to the end of the rope and became out of my home, the only place that I felt was home for me was the cemetery where my husband was.

LUNETTA: In its simplest form, stable housing made it so Rhea no longer had to sleep in the cemetery.

HOLMES: Come in.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi.

HOLMES: It's so good to see you.

LUNETTA: The next step after that was long-term case management supports to help her address the things that hopefully she's not going to have to deal with anymore.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am so proud of you.

HOLMES: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You all helped me out.

LUNETTA: Oh, man.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You all got me focused.

LUNETTA: Where a tenant moves in, they don't necessarily understand that they're being housed by this organization that cares a whole lot about them.

Yes. Dude, you've been knocking it out of the park.

So when all of a sudden we're knocking on their door, there's a little bit of like, well, this is different. Hey, buddy, you want to walk?

But as time goes on and I think that it's seeing that we mean it, it's really pretty profound, some of those changes.

This wouldn't exist without the tenants.

HOLMES: You're a great leader, sir.

Peace is now what I have. It's like freedom to just exhale, like your nervous system is now able to rest.

LUNETTA: Let's go get this toilet fixed, shall we?

I still don't love being called a landlord, but it is true. That's what we are. And I think that what this population needs is landlords who care and it's absolutely what we do.

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WHITFIELD: And for the full story, go to CNN.com/Heroes.

And thank you so much for joining me today. I'm Fredricka Whitfield. "THE ARENA" starts right now.