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Trump Warned Against Escalating Iran War; Pentagon Quietly Changes Account Of Casualty Count; Interview With Representative Shri Thanedar (D-MI); Massive Wildfires Scorch Parts Of France; Spain; Global Oil Prices Drop Five Percent After Topping $100.00; OpenAI Tests Model Escapes, Breaks Into Another Company's Servers. Aired 7-8p ET

Aired July 26, 2026 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[19:00:00]

KHURSHUDYAN: IndyCar who maybe don't think you should be doing a race here under this administration?

DENKER: I don't have exclusive areas for the -- anybody that's in red or blue, it's come everybody here. And non-partisan has been the mission from day one.

KHURSHUDYAN: So this is a show car. Tell me about it.

DENKER: Yes, this is a car we designed to show the spirit of what the race is going to look like here. Is that crazy? Are you down in there now?

KHURSHUDYAN: Yes, I think so.

DENKER: Can you imagine doing that for two and a half hours, three hours in Indianapolis?

KHURSHUDYAN: Yes. Now I have won.

(Voice-over): Isabelle Khurshudyan, CNN, Washington, D.C.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: A new hour of NEWSROOM starts right now.

Tonight, hostilities between the U.S. and Iran appear to be on pause after nearly two weeks of nightly strikes. A top administration official suggesting the pause is President Trump giving diplomatic talks with Iran some space. All of this comes as we're also learning some new details about a White House meeting on Friday, where two key voices pushed back on the possibility of an escalation.

Sources telling CNN Vice President J.D. Vance and chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Dan Caine, had raised concerns, and that General Caine specifically mentioned the U.S. munitions stockpile.

CNN's Betsy Klein joining us from the White House tonight with more of that reporting.

Hi, Betsy.

BETSY KLEIN, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Erica. A halt for now in the fighting after what could have been a very consequential Friday meeting here at the White House. President Trump huddling with top advisers and Cabinet officials to discuss options for a potential escalation in this war with Iran. But after that meeting, two nights without any strikes, after 13 consecutive nights of strikes, one U.S. source tells CNN that military operations are on a hold as those diplomatic discussions play out.

We heard earlier today from U.S. ambassador to the United Nations Mike Waltz. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE WALTZ, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED NATIONS: I've spoken with Secretary Hegseth. What the president is doing right now, as we've seen all along, is giving some talks, some space. Talks are ongoing. They're happening at every level from the more technical aspect of it all the way to the highest levels of course within both the Iranian government and the U.S. government.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KLEIN: Now, two sources tell CNN that in that Friday meeting, Vice President J.D. Vance, along with chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Dan Caine, raised concerns about escalating this war. We have heard from President Trump threatening massive attacks on Iran in recent weeks. He has threatened to target critical infrastructure, things like roads, bridges, as well as that key oil hub, Kharg Island, he has yet to follow through. But some have warned that that could constitute a war crime.

Caine specifically in that meeting raised concerns about depleting U.S. munition stockpiles. Pentagon spokesperson Sean Parnell responding to that reporting in a statement. He says, quote, "We have executed multiple successful operations across combatant commands while ensuring the U.S. military possesses a deep arsenal of capabilities to protect our people and our interests."

Sources tell us that other concerns were also raised to Trump, including the possibility of massive civilian casualties across Iran, a refugee crisis and concerns about this conflict spilling out into the broader Middle East region.

Now, there are few people within the president's inner circle who believe that the options he has been given for escalation at this point could yield the results that he wants. But all of this, as the president is heading into a high stakes meeting on Tuesday with Israel Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, and just 100 days to go until those midterm elections -- Erica.

HILL: Yes, absolutely. Two important notes, that is for sure, as we move into the week. Betsy, appreciate it. Thank you.

The Pentagon adding more than 140 wounded troops to its official casualty database over the weekend, and also restoring the four soldiers who were killed last week amid questions about a lack of transparency. This after the number of killed and wounded decreased from the database last week.

CNN national security reporter Davis Winkie joining us now.

So you've been following these numbers very closely. What more can you tell us about not only the change in these numbers, but how they're being handled overall?

DAVIS WINKIE, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Erica, the way that the Pentagon has handled these numbers really demonstrates their approach to transparency and the current administration. It says a lot that they are deferring to the Defense Casualty Analysis System database, which is traditionally used mostly for historical record keeping whenever media members want to know more information about how many casualties there have been.

And that database really is not built for that kind of real-time understanding of what's going on. A Pentagon official told CNN last week that it could take days or even weeks for casualties to appear in that database for reporting reasons. In addition to that, we've been monitoring on a minute-by-minute basis and have found that there were some pretty consistent data errors throughout the week.

[19:05:05]

Those seem to have mostly resolved so far, but they added a new category to the database yesterday that categorizes casualties incurred from July 7th onward as being part of overseas operations. And that's really significant, Erica.

HILL: Why is that so significant? What does that change?

WINKIE: It comes down to the Trump administration's approach to navigating the War Powers Act and Congress potentially curtailing the administration's ability to continue combat operations against Iran. Under the War Powers Act, you're supposed to have 60 days as the president to conduct combat operations before you have to stop, absent congressional authority.

Now when the first phase of the war, Operation Epic Fury was put on hold with a ceasefire in April, the Trump administration argued that meant that the 60-day clock was null and void and had reset. The July 7th date is when a new clock began, according to the administration, when they notified Congress of that a couple of weeks ago.

The upshot of that, Erica, is now that the casualty database is on the same sheet of music as the rest of the administration, and that's notable as there starts to be more legislative scrutiny over these war powers exchange.

HILL: Yes, absolutely. It's really important reporting. Appreciate it. Thank you.

Also joining us this hour, CNN military analyst, retired U.S. Air Force Colonel Cedric Leighton and former State Department Middle East negotiator, pardon me, Aaron David Miller.

It's nice to see you both.

Colonel, I just want to pick up where we left off there with Davis. So this update of 140 additional service members being wounded. This is an administration that often touts itself as the most transparent that has ever been when it comes to how they handle things and how they handle information. What do you make of the way the Pentagon has been handling the release of this very important information for the country, and most importantly, for the families of these service members?

COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Yes, Erica, it's good to be with you. And as Davis was reporting, one of the key things here is that this is where Pentagon bureaucracy meets the reality of families who are grieving or who have a wounded member. And that's a very unfortunate situation because these databases should really be reflecting reality regardless of the political niceties of the War Powers Act, or which operation you're in, whether it's Epic Fury or the follow on to Epic Fury or something else.

So the problem that the Pentagon runs into is that there are certain categories that they have to fill out in a database, like the DCAS system. And when they do that, once an operation ends, they can't then add to those casualties to that operation's list. And that becomes a bit of a problem because, you know, quite frankly, as far as Iran is concerned, that conflict has not ended yet. And we really should have a more broader way of doing things than, you know, just limiting things this way. But the key thing is that these databases be accurate and that they reflect the true nature of the cost of war.

HILL: Yes. Important to have your perspective on that. I also want to talk about where things stand in terms of this war. So the U.S. ambassador to the U.N. Waltz saying that Trump is giving some space here when it comes to talks.

Aaron David Miller, you're a former Middle East negotiator. When we look at where things stand and the nations that we are dealing with, both very clearly dug in. As you noted earlier this weekend, in some ways, both kind of convinced they have the upper hand here. Does offering some space, you think, actually offer an opportunity to move the discussions, to move the ball forward?

AARON DAVID MILLER, FORMER STATE DEPARTMENT MIDDLE EAST NEGOTIATOR: Sure. If in fact, you're talking about serious negotiations, they're not performative negotiations. Look, I think the options are very clear. Escalation, 38 days of Epic Fury, 13,000 strikes has not altered Iran's calculations on their core issues. The last two weeks, a thousand strikes isn't going to do that either. So that's one option is to continue to escalate.

Caine and the vice president and others, and including the head of CENTCOM, have cautioned that escalation is not only spending munitions. What, the Patriots are $4 million a pop. That leaves extrication, right? President could walk away. Prewar traffic could return. The Iranians would turn the straits into an ATM machine and a toll booth. That really leaves negotiation.

If they're serious, Erica, if they're not done on cell phones and on the back of a cocktail napkin or through intermediaries, so you end up not with a memorandum of understanding, but a memorandum of misunderstanding. If you can correct those deficiencies and you can have direct negotiations, yes, maybe you could reach a deal on finding a balance between what Iran wants on the streets and what the Trump administration wants, but it's going to be a very hard lift.

[19:10:04]

HILL: It's hard to get there. Also, I'm curious, and we've talked about this a little bit over the last several months. But when it comes to who is doing the negotiating, do you think there would be more of an impact specifically from the American side if there were different people at the table or additional people at the table who were perhaps more well-known or even more well-respected in the region, Aaron?

MILLER: I mean, I think it comes down to prudence, wisdom and judgment, and experience, and whether or not the negotiations are truly designed to reach a balance of interests, which is the hallmark of a deal that lasts, or if the administration looks at it as a win- loss proposition, zero sum game, I win, President Trump says. You lose. We're going to have to make concessions. They're painful. But if Trump wants out of this, it seems to me that's probably the only way to go right now.

HILL: There are a lot of questions about how long this could last, Colonel Leighton. You know, Aaron just sort of referenced this, touched on it, but this reporting that CNN has, I was just speaking about with Betsy, about the concerns raised by Vice President Vance and General Caine concerns specifically about munitions stockpiles. Ambassador Waltz, in part, was blaming that on aid that the U.S. has given to Ukraine.

A, it doesn't seem like it's that simple, but I'll let you answer that question. But B, what does this tell you about the overall impact on U.S. military readiness?

LEIGHTON: Well, it's certainly an impact, Erica, on U.S. military readiness, no doubt about it. But let's put things into perspective. When you look at the expenditure of Patriot missile munitions in Ukraine, you're talking in the hundreds of Patriot missiles that the -- like PAC Three type missiles that the Ukrainians have used. Compare that to as many as 1430 Patriot missiles that were sent off in the war against Iran.

So the U.S. itself has used a considerable number of munitions in this Iran conflict Operation Epic Fury in both pre and subsequent operations. So we really have to figure out the defense industrial base in this country. There are serious concerns. General Caine and the vice president are absolutely right about that. The key question, though, is, is that we, you know, have a long lead time in putting all these weapon systems together, building them, manufacturing them, you know, getting the money allocated for them. And then, of course, finally getting them into the field.

So those are the kinds of things that have to be fixed. The Pentagon is making strides in that direction. But the key thing here is also this. The war efforts under the Biden administration and before even the first Trump administration to do some of this. But there have been some holdups, you know, some of them congressionally induced, some of them bureaucratic inertia that have prevented that. If the U.S. had decided to focus on Ukraine, for example, instead of Iran, we probably wouldn't be in this situation.

HILL: Colonel Leighton, Aaron David Miller, always appreciate your insight. Thank you both.

LEIGHTON: You bet, Erica.

HILL: When it comes to the Iran war, can't talk about that without talking about gas prices. You have likely noticed them spiking again over the past few days. So what does this do for all of the costs that Americans are facing in this moment? The affordability crisis, we're going to speak with an expert.

Plus new questions surrounding the vetting process for the hiring of ICE agents amid this latest deadly shooting involving officers in Houston and also in Maine. Plus, Europe's air quality hitting dangerous levels as wildfires rage across parts of Italy, Spain and France.

Stay with us. You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:18:21]

HILL: White House border czar Tom Homan is responding to the domestic abuse allegations against an ICE officer who is at the center of a fatal shooting earlier this month in Maine. Now Homan says if true, that agent should have never, quote, "cleared vetting."

Here's a little bit more of what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DANA BASH, CNN ANCHOR: Court documents reveal one of the ICE officers connected to the fatal shooting in Maine was accused of abuse by two ex-wives. One of his ex-wives told my colleague Erin Burnett that she experienced severe domestic violence in her marriage and that he always displayed violent behavior, and even that if anything ever happened to her, he'd be the one to look at.

I should say he denied the allegations, but at one point a judge ordered him to temporarily relinquish any firearms. Should someone with those issues be an ICE agent? TOM HOMAN, WHITE HOUSE BORDER CZAR: No. If those are facts, I don't

think he should ever cleared vetting.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: Homan says, however, he does not think that this is indicative of a larger problem in the agency. He calls this a rare instance.

Joining me now, Democratic Representative Shri Thanedar of Michigan who serves on the House Homeland Security Committee.

Congressman, appreciate you joining us tonight. You hear, he said he never should have passed the vetting there, but believes that this is essentially an isolated incident. What overview is happening right now from Congress?

REP. SHRI THANEDAR (D-MI): Well, look, we have brought the director of ICE, we have brought Homeland Security secretary in front of our committee. And this is precisely what our committee has asked them to.

[19:20:02]

We have asked many questions about the process of hiring these ICE agents. You know, they went on a hiring spree. 10,000, 12,000 ICE agents were hired. They were received 220,000 applications. The hiring process was highly flawed. The ICE agents did not go through the customary training. Their training was cut halfway. And there has been significant.

So by what Tom Homan is saying, this is an isolated incident, this is absolutely not an isolated incident. They had a deliberate system that encouraged hiring of people that had, you know, questionable backgrounds, background search was not done enough. And ICE agents were hired in a hurry because they wanted to make up that quota that President Trump has said.

HILL: So you just said that the system in place, in your words, encouraged the hiring of questionable individuals. To that point, I mean, based on what you just said there, you don't believe this is isolated. So then how widespread do you think it is? I mean, how many ICE agents do you believe would not have passed a vetting background check?

THANEDAR: Well, they hired over 10,000 ICE agents. And most of them --

HILL: But are you saying all 10,000?

THANEDAR: Well, most of them. Look what happened in Minneapolis. American citizens are being killed, murdered by these ICE agents on our streets. When is enough is enough? You know, we lost, you know, two American citizens. You know, we can't have American citizens or personnel, people being murdered on our streets by these ICE agents. You know, their hiring process ended up hiring ICE agents that were racist, ICE agents that were power hungry, ICE agents that had violent backgrounds, domestic violence backgrounds, firearm misuse backgrounds. None of this got vetted. The hiring process was incredibly faulty. And

then offering $50,000 reward by an agency that openly spread hate.

(CROSSTALK)

HILL: Do you believe that there have been significant changes made at this point?

THANEDAR: I don't think so.

HILL: Given concerns, because we have seen concerns raised.

THANEDAR: I don't.

HILL: You don't think any significant changes have been made in the hiring process and vetting process?

THANEDAR: No. No. And that's why I brought in -- yes, go ahead.

HILL: I was going to say, too, one other thing I wanted to ask you about, because we have a limited amount of time, the $20 million of course that Congress had allocated to DHS for body cameras for ICE, for CBP agents. The officers involved in these fatal shootings in Houston and in Maine were not wearing them. What is your understanding of how widespread the body camera rollout has been to this point?

THANEDAR: You know, often we find body cameras were turned off, and this is not isolated incidents. This is the norm. This is what happens when you have a faulty hiring process.

HILL: So you're bringing all this back to the faulty hiring process in your words. As we talk about a lot, of course, there is a real focus on November. We're now 100 days out from the midterms. What would change if your party was able to take back control of the House? I mean, in terms of oversight, what do you think you would be able to change?

THANEDAR: Well, look, if I am the chair of the Oversight Committee on Homeland Security, I would subpoena these officers. I would subpoena the ICE directors, and certainly subpoena have the Homeland secretary appear. They need to be. Some of these agents need to be prosecuted for criminal activity. This, you know, we need -- we must pass a bill in Congress to end qualified immunity.

I brought a bill in Congress. There is one right now in U.S. Congress that qualified immunity for ICE agents must end. And if necessary, ICE must be abolished because the ICE, as it operates currently, is out of control.

HILL: Really quickly, before I let you go. Minority leader Hakeem Jeffries was asked this morning by my colleague, Dana Bash, whether he would agree to hold votes on policies like abolishing ICE. He did not commit to that, saying it hadn't yet been raised with him. Is that something, is abolishing ICE something that you would want to see a vote on?

THANEDAR: Absolutely, absolutely. I think ICE as it stands, is totally out of control.

[19:25:02]

American citizens have been murdered on our streets. ICE has spread so much terror in our communities and ICE as it stands under President Trump must be abolished.

HILL: Congressman, we appreciate you taking the time to join us tonight. Thank you.

THANEDAR: Thank you.

HILL: Still to come here, the raging infernos across large parts of southwestern Europe. We'll get you an update from France and Spain as firefighters there work to contain the flames.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HILL: Some dramatic new video to share with you. So this is actually from Italy's southeast coast. It's a tourist hot spot. What you're watching are members of the coast guard helping to rescue swimmers as plumes of smoke, you can see them in the back of the video there, take over the skies.

[19:30:08]

So this all happened in Apulia where a wildfire has been burning. We have been monitoring these fires across Europe with these climate change driven wildfires just scorching, especially parts of France and Spain. More than 300,000 people have now been displaced across the region.

We have a live radar to show you. This is the air quality across Europe. You can see several areas dangerously close to those hazardous levels. You see the red there, the orange.

In Southwest France, those fires leaving in their wake a trail of destruction. Thousands of firefighters, officials and volunteers have been mobilized to fight these flames.

CNN's Melissa Bell is in France in the region with a closer look at the destruction.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MELISSA BELL, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Here on the edge of what has become this monstrous fire in the Gironde region, very little sign of the sun, so thick is the smoke that's covering the sky. You can see how dry the ground is. The particular vegetation of this part of France, all pine forests, themselves very flammable trees, but also this vegetation you have on the ground, the bracken, the ferns that after all of these successive heat waves have really been turned to kindling. Here, the firefighters are trying to prevent the flames from crossing this very small stretch of road. And they used many fire trucks to help them do that, many firemen as well, because on the other side of that road are houses and an electrical station that they want to protect.

But this is something -- these are scenes that are repeating themselves over such a vast area. This is a fire that has already burned through 42,000 hectares and displaced in this part of France alone, 220,000 people.

Melissa Bell, CNN in the Gironde Region.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HILL: I also want to give you a closer look at Spain, where we know at least one person's death is now attributed to those fires. Spain's Prime Minister, warning of the difficult hours ahead.

The temperatures are only expected to get worse. Pau Mosquera has a closer look now from Madrid.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PAU MOSQUERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: What you see behind me is the aftermath of the wildfires that are burning since Thursday in the autonomous community of Madrid.

Have a look at the surroundings of the forest area in San Martin de Valdeiglesias, located 60 kilometers west of the city of Madrid.

You can see how the ground is still smoldering. There is a smoke still coming from the pine trees in the area. And also, if you look closer, you can see how some pine trees still have flames on it. This is such a dramatic situation.

All the people around these areas have been evacuated, and in some cases they have been locked down inside their towns.

I can tell you that the smoke in this area, it is so thick that is impossible to be here without using a facemask like the one that we are wearing right now.

The most curious thing about the image that you're getting now on your screens is that this area was already scorched a few days ago, but because of the temperatures, because of the intensity of the fire, there are still some pine trees that have fire on them. This is why we are just seeing how emergency workers are using these roads to try to contain the fire around us as quickly as possible.

Now, this is no easy task because of the wind that is blowing and changing the direction depending on the hour. Nevertheless, we are being told by the authorities that they will keep doing their best as to contain and control this situation as soon as possible.

Pau Mosquera, CNN, San Martin de Valdeiglesias, Spain. (END VIDEOTAPE)

HILL: Just ahead here, Americans facing surging gas prices once again. You may have noticed it this weekend, if you went to fill up. The Iran War, of course, the cause of much of this. So where do oil futures stand right now as we move into a new week? And what could this mean in terms of how long higher prices at the pump may last? Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:38:51]

HILL: When we take a look at the oil prices, you see them there, futures, oil prices are actually down. But Brent crude has climbed over $100.00 a barrel last week after energy prices spiked higher. AAA says gas prices are now solidly over $4.00 a gallon. In fact, the national average for a gallon of regular $4.11, as you see there and you can see the comparison over time. Diesel has climbed to $5.30.

All of this after new attacks on a second major artery for oil shipping. So this time, a Houthi blockade of the Bab al-Mandeb Strait in the Red Sea. Now, oil had remained relatively calm amid attacks on oil tankers in the Strait of Hormuz, but this second front has sent prices spiking higher.

Tom Kloza is chief energy advisor for Gulf Oil and joins us now.

So, Tom, how do you read these oil futures tonight? What should we take away from it?

TOM KLOZA, CHIEF ENERGY ADVISOR, GULF OIL: Well, I think Sunday nights are notorious for being misleading and probably the $5.00 or $6.00 decreases we saw earlier are a little bit misleading.

There was a lot of hot money that went into oil futures in the last couple of weeks and probably that hot money is getting a little bit frightened by the prospect of negotiations. But we know what has happened with these negotiations before, and I think very quickly the international trading community is going to focus again on this second front in the Red Sea.

[19:40:13]

HILL: In terms of that, I mean, how much of a threat is that to the economy -- the global economy overall?

KLOZA: Well, it is a big threat. I mean, there are really three fronts. There is the Persian Gulf and the Strait of Hormuz. Then there is the Red Sea, where six or seven million barrels a day of crude oil comes out and quite a bit of refined products, and then, there is Russia, which is probably two or two-and-a-half million barrels a day shy of what they'd like to be producing in terms of gasoline and diesel.

So we are going to be confronting a mess, and really, the next 60 days is kind of, you know, as Tina Turner would say, the "Thunder Dome." This is when you get hurricane season, you get the highest demand in the world, and you get the Saudis, for example, needing a lot of crude to stay home because they need it for air conditioning.

HILL: So when you put all of that together, based on what we have seen since the war started, what is your sense of how much planning has been done for the possibility that this war continues to endure?

KLOZA: Well, I think everybody is taking it day by day. But if you're looking at it in terms of the U.S. and the gas prices now, you might get a little bit of a break this week, but gas prices are going to be -- tending to be quite high and the problem is really going to be diesel.

Diesel may ultimately flirt with its all-time high, which I think was in April or June 2022 at $5.80, and that doesn't get the public that excited. But diesel influences every aspect of inflation, not just in the United States, but around the world.

So this is -- you know, everybody is making this up as they go along. Let's be straight about it.

HILL: Yes, I mean, in many ways, when we look at the gas prices, the reality is the U.S. has actually been shielded in a lot of ways from the spikes when it comes to what you pay at the pump. But when you talk about the diesel, as you point out, that carry-on effect of the diesel impacting the prices of everything, how much or when I should say, do you think that we could really begin to feel that here in the U.S.?

KLOZA: Well, I think we will feel it right away, I do, and I think, you know, the problem is the United States is energy dominant. We are much better off than every other continent in the world and think about it in this standpoint, you know, all oil is traded in dollars and the U.S. dollar has done phenomenally in the last hundred days or so.

So it is really the other countries in the world who have seen their currencies decline in relation to the dollar, who are suffering the most.

HILL: Tom, really appreciate it. Thank you.

KLOZA: Thanks, Erica.

HILL: Still ahead here, experts sounding the alarm after an OpenAI test model hacks into another company.

Stay with us. You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:47:47]

HILL: OpenAI says one of its A.I. models escaped its so-called environment and broke into an entirely separate company's system. Does that have you worried? It turns out it is something cybersecurity experts have been warning about. This, though, is one of the first publicly disclosed examples of that actually happening. One cybersecurity company CEO saying, "Welcome to the next level of cyber incidents." Not exactly reassuring.

Joining me now is Madison Mills, senior A.I. reporter at AXIOS. So Madison, can you put in perspective for us just how significant this security breach is?

MADISON MILLS, SENIOR A.I. REPORTER, AXIOS: This is a really big deal. I spoke with a source last week who told me that this was about an eight out of ten on an alarming scale, with ten being the most oh-no situation possible.

This is sort of like OpenAI creating an A.I. model that is so powerful that it just doesn't quit, even when you may want it to. It raises a lot of questions about something in the A.I. industry they refer to as alignment, which is when the A.I. models think similarly to how we do and have a similar moral code to us.

This model, created by OpenAI, wanted to solve a test at all costs, even if that meant sort of breaking into the test's headquarters to get the answers in advance and that is exactly what we saw happening when this model from OpenAI was able to breach into Hugging Face, which is an A.I. platform, and try and get answers to a test that allowed this model to be measured about how powerful it was, leading to a lot of big questions about the future of cyber security in this A.I. moment that we are in.

HILL: An eight out of ten is certainly saying something and I think this is the kind of breach, the kind of moment that a lot of people who don't work in A.I., who are not necessarily well-versed in this, but this is kind of what they fear.

I mean, how well-prepared are companies for something like this?

MILLS: Well, the good news is every time you hear a headline about something very scary happening with A.I., you know, the offense and defense here are working with the same set of tools. So there are also a lot of work being done to defend companies from these types of potential attacks.

[19:50:02]

We know that the release of Anthropic's most capable cyber models have discovered hundreds and hundreds of zero day vulnerabilities in software stacks across the Fortune 500. So that has allowed all of these companies to kind of shore up their cyber security efforts in anticipation of what will continue to be more and more cyber challenges from bad actors using these same tools.

I do a lot of reporting in the financial sector, though, and I talked to the CEO of a fintech company last week who told me that right now, the bad actors are starting to become the winners here. And that, of course, is the big concern for everybody. HILL: That does not instill a lot of confidence, I have to be honest, when you hear them say that. I also thought it was interesting. So Hugging Face said that it had relied on this open weight Chinese model to respond to the breach.

What does that tell us about the A.I. race between the U.S. and China?

MILLS: I mean, this is the other massive story happening out of Silicon Valley over the course of this weekend, is this idea that a lot of companies are turning to open weight models coming out of China right now, in part because those open weight models can be more affordable. You can kind of tinker with them. The recipe behind the model is public, so you can do a lot more with them.

Meantime, the models from OpenAI and Anthropic, those are closed models, so you're not going to be able to do as much. A company like Hugging Face using an open weight model from China is not surprising to us, A.I. reporters who have been covering the massive surge in use of Chinese open weight models.

But it is potentially going to be an issue for the likes of OpenAI and Anthropic, which, by the way, are pummeling towards these potential record breaking IPOs. They are trying to go public and make a ton of money on the stock market. Not, a great play for them right now if China is going to be eating their market share. A lot of debate right now about whether or not big tech is going to be supportive or anti- open models, which is also a geopolitical conversation with the administration potentially looking into banning some type of Chinese open weight models as well.

HILL: It absolutely is, and all of this can sort of make you watching this sit there and go, oh God, is the world ending? There are some positives, right? So if you had to appoint to an A.I. win this past week, Madison, what would it be?

MILLS: You know, the thing is that, like I said, this tool set that we've got is bridging up the offense and the defense here and one thing that's interesting in covering and talking to so many of the A.I. CEOs is that they can go from being super pessimistic to optimistic within seconds in a conversation.

Months ago, we had the CEOs of these companies saying that A.I. was going to wipe out, you know, half of the workforce. And now they've all changed their tune and said the data is not backing that up. So maybe everybody will be fine. So workforce-wise, it seems like the A.I. companies have changed their minds on the impact of this technology.

But certainly a lot of headlines to keep us, A.I. reporters busy and potentially scared as well.

HILL: It keeps you busy, and also you help to inform us who do not follow it quite so closely and make it all understandable. So we appreciate you. Thanks, Madison.

MILLS: Thank you so much. HILL: We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:57:57]

HILL: Last December, former Senator Ben Sasse was diagnosed with stage four pancreatic cancer. Doctors gave him just months to live.

Well, he is spending the time he has left making memories with his family. My colleague and CNN anchor, jake tapper spent some time with Sasse and his family recently in Nebraska. Here is Jake with a preview.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Erica, I recently sat down with former Senator Ben Sasse to talk about what he is going through with his stage four pancreatic cancer diagnosis and how he is spending his time after doctors back in December just gave him three or four months to live.

It was an emotional conversation. He talked about facing death, what he thinks comes after, how he is spending his remaining time. Here is a preview of what we discussed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BEN SASSE, FORMER U.S. SENATOR: I felt the heaviness of death being terrible and obviously not wanting your wife to go through being widowed or your kids to be orphaned, to lose their dad. But I just felt at peace that death is real. I've always known we are all on the clock and to get a finite number felt horrible, but not surprising.

TAPPER: Your faith is -- it always has been remarkable, but never more so, I think as somebody who has long admired and covered you during this period. Just your supreme confidence in what happens next, and that you will see your loved ones again and do you ever have any moments of doubt about any of it?

I mean, let me just say, I envy it. I wish I felt that way. I think there are a lot of people probably watching and who think, God, what a gift!

SASSE: I think death is wicked. But I don't think it is a surprise to any of us who reckon hard with a conscience that says we are broken, this world is broken. Things are not as they should be. So to your direct question, no, I don't. I don't doubt it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Spending time with Ben Sasse and his family, hearing their story, it really left a lasting impression. It makes you reflect on your own faith, on what matters most, how you might choose to spend your time if faced with a similar diagnosis, Erica.

It is the kind of conversation that stays with you long after the cameras stop rolling. HILL: Yes, I'd certainly will.

Jake, appreciate it.

Thanks to all of you for joining me tonight. I am Erica Hill.

Stay tuned, "The Whole Story" starts right now.

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