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Trump Rejects Plan to Open Strait of Hormuz But Expects More Talks; Five Men Arrested on Suspicion of Terror, Explosives Offenses; CNN Provides Midterm Updates; CNN Provides Weather Updates; Two Of China's Giant Pandas Arrive At Zoo Atlanta; Trump Announces Plan To Host Anthropic CEO For Private Meeting; Pope Leo XIV Receives Warm Welcome On First Trip To France. Aired 2-3a ET

Aired September 28, 2026 - 02:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[02:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ROSEMARY CHURCH, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and welcome to our viewers joining us here in the United States and from all around the world. I'm Rosemary Church. Just ahead on "CNN Newsroom," after rejecting a plan to reopen the Strait of Hormuz, President Trump says he's still willing to negotiate with Iran. The latest on win talks between Washington and Tehran will restart. Plus, severe weather warnings are in place in Nepal as the Himalayan nation gets hit by more deadly flooding. We'll have a live report from the region. And later, how the U.S. and China's relationship could improve with the long tradition of Panda diplomacy.

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Live from Atlanta, this is "CNN Newsroom with Rosemary Church."

CHURCH: Good to have you with us. And we begin with the tensions in the Middle East and the war with Iran. President Donald Trump says he expects Washington and Tehran to resume talks this week, just one day after he rejected Iran's latest proposal to reopen the Strait of Hormuz. President Trump gave this interview to Axios, saying in part, and I'm quoting here, "I expect more talks with Iran this week. They want to make a deal, but it is not the deal that I want to make. It is what we would have maybe agreed to a year ago. They overplayed their hand." But President Trump says he still doesn't rule out the possibility of renewed military action in the region. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Their money is shot, their economy is shot, their military is shot. They're in trouble.

UNKNOWN: Yes. Are strikes before midterms still on the table for you?

TRUMP: I don't want to say that.

UNKNOWN: OK. TRUMP: I don't want to say that. I mean, it's possible, but I just don't want to say that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: Iran says it's still waiting on a definitive response to its Hormuz offer despite President Trump's public response. The U.S. ambassador to the United Nations told our Jake Tapper why President Trump said no to Iran's latest proposal. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE WALTZ, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED NATIONS: The bottom line is they were asking for everything up front with a promise that they would then talk. And I'll remind everyone, once we got to the MOU from just a few months ago, the Iranians immediately violated it by attacking international shipping in violation of international law, and 146 nations have joined us in condemning Iran for those attacks. So, just -- the president is just not confident that the Iranians are coming in good faith, and that will truly negotiate the end of their nuclear program.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: Meanwhile, Tehran's top diplomat says Iran won't back down from the U.S. even in the face of an apocalyptic war, but is ready to make peace. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ABBAS ARAGHCHI, FOREIGN MINISTER OF IRAN: We care about our national interests. We are ready to negotiate as much as we are ready to face any challenge. We stand firm in the face of any challenge, any aggression -- sorry. We stand firm in the face of any aggression against us, even it comes to a doomsday war. At the same time, we are ready for diplomacy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: Mehran Kamrava, professor of government at Georgetown University in Qatar, joins me now. Appreciate you talking with us.

MEHRAN KAMRAVA, PROFESSOR OF GOVERNMENT, GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY IN QATAR: Thank you. Good to be here.

CHURCH: So, professor, while President Trump rejected Iran's latest proposal to reopen the Strait of Hormuz, he is now talking about resuming negotiations with Iran sometime this week, apparently. What does that signal to you, especially after he threatened to annihilate the country just last week at the U.N. General Assembly?

KAMRAVA: This is a page out of the book, "The Art of the Deal," Rosemary. The president assumes that Iran is in a weakened position and that he can get a much better deal if a deal is somehow either offered by the United States or is in some ways imposed on Iran. And so, I think what we have is a difference of perceptions. I think the broad outlines of a deal are there for the taking. Neither side, obviously, wants a resumption of the conflict. Both sides claim to be ready for the conflict to resume. But, of course, at the same time, both sides are eager for a deal.

[02:05:00]

So, I think what we're seeing is more maneuvering on both sides rather than kind of a meltdown of negotiations.

CHURCH: So, professor, what is Iran's likely thought process right now and how much leverage does it think it has over President Trump with the midterms, of course, a little over a month away?

KAMRAVA: Both sides, Rosemary, assume they have the upper hand, and I think that's where the problem lies. The Iranians think they have a much higher threshold for pain than the White House does given the price of gasoline in the United States, given the midterm elections. They're very carefully and closely watching public opinion data in the United States, and the United States at the same time assumes that Iran's economy is in free fall.

I think the truth lies somewhere in between. The president is not as horribly unpopular in the United States as the Iranians assume and neither is the United States able to collapse the Iranian economy the way that President Trump assumes.

And so, I think it's a difference of perceptions. Obviously, both sides are keen to move out of this quagmire and reach some sort of a deal. The precise terms of that deal are what they're posturing over.

CHURCH: And Iran says it's ready for diplomacy, but also says it's ready to continue fighting and won't back down. How significant is that, especially when we also know that President Pezeshkian has revealed Iran's leaders are more united than ever?

KAMRAVA: Absolutely, exactly, and I think that's very important. One of the things that we hear coming out of Tehran is that Iran has more to gain through escalation rather than restraint. It has historically and over the last several months, what we have seen is that Iran has been able to get more concessions out of the United States and out of America's regional allies when it has started fighting.

And so, I think that's one of the dilemmas that Iranian negotiators have. It's the domestic political pressure to continue to fight rather than to negotiate, and that's why we're seeing kind of this very careful maneuvering coming out of Tehran.

CHURCH: So, what options are possibly on the table for talks this week between the U.S. and Iran? How likely is it that this time, we might see an end to the war?

KAMRAVA: Well, I think what we're seeing is bombastic rhetoric on both sides, which is really not helpful. If we get rid of the noise, what we're seeing is that we're actually in a much better place today than we were a week ago or 10 days ago, when there was a real possibility of a resumption of the conflict. And so, I think, you know, it's too early to talk about an end to the conflict but, certainly, I think the two sides are showing an eagerness to continue talking.

CHURCH: And just very quickly, how concerned are the Gulf states about the possible resumption of warfare between Iran and the U.S.?

KAMRAVA: There's extreme concern across the Persian Gulf because the cost of doing business in places like Qatar, the United Arab Emirates, Bahrain, Kuwait, has significantly risen and the economic model on which these states have relied for the last couple of decades is beginning to crack. And so, there's tremendous concern and eagerness to see an end to the hostilities.

CHURCH: Mehran Kamrava, thank you so much for joining us and sharing your analysis and perspective on this issue. Appreciate it.

KAMRAVA: Thank you very much.

CHURCH: Thank you. Well, U.K. authorities are keeping five men in custody on suspicion of terror and explosives offences. They were arrested in England on Sunday near an air base used by U.S. long-range bombers in the war against Iran. The men have not been publicly identified nor has a possible motive been disclosed yet. Dozens of nearby homes were evacuated as a precaution as army bomb disposal units continue to sweep the area.

CNN's Nic Robertson visited the air base's perimeter and brings us a closer look at the ongoing investigation.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: The five men were detained in the early hours of the morning, and it does seem to be as a result of a tip-off from somebody who lived very local to the air base here. Now, villagers have been telling us that the air base had been on a lockdown. That's what they believed for the past week or so because there was nobody, they said, coming off the base into the village, and they're used to seeing people, you know, service personnel in the village all the time.

[02:10:03]

And when I asked a local councilor here who was involved in the evacuation of those 85 families who lived close to the base, close to where these five men were arrested and these three white vans seized and then investigated by the army bomb squad, when I asked him about the base being on lockdown, he said, yes, that there was extra vigilance, there had been extra security around the base. In fact, he said that the IRGC, the Iranian high military command, had actually threatened RAF Fairford base by name just five weeks ago.

Now, certainly, the police are not saying that this is linked to Iran. They're not saying the five men are linked to Iran at the moment. They are saying that they're being held on suspicion of terrorism offences. But the local councilor framing it this way, that it was very good that somebody in the village had been perceptive enough and had actually called in to the police when they saw something that was out of the ordinary.

The investigation is going on. And because these five men are now being held on suspicion of terrorism charges, they can be held for up to two weeks. While we've been standing here now, I heard what sounded like a controlled detonation coming from the direction of the air base. But there's very little information about the nature of the explosives that the police believe that they seized from the vehicles or the five men who have been detained. But it does appear as if the security of this base was helped by one of the local villagers spotting something out of the ordinary in the early hours of the morning.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHURCH: Iraq is preparing to celebrate the withdrawal of the last remaining U.S. forces from the country. The government announced official institutions will close for a public holiday called Iraq's Sovereignty Days, spanning from September 30 through October 3rd. Iraq's prime minister sees the U.S. military departure as a major milestone in restoring Iraqi sovereignty. He has also vowed to end the influence of armed militia groups operating outside government authority.

U.S. Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent is brushing off inflation concerns even though consumer prices have been on the rise. It comes after the Federal Reserve recently voted to raise interest rates for the first time since 2023 to address the country's stubborn inflation. Speaking with Fox News, Bessent seemed confident that the recent spikes in oil prices would not be too harmful to the U.S. economy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCOTT BESSENT, UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF THE TREASURY: We've got the American people back on their feet. And now, I think we are in the acceleration phase of this economy. If you look at core inflation away from the volatile energy shock that we've had, core inflation has been very quiescent and has actually dropped over the past few months. So, the energy shock is not moving into core inflation. We will get to the other side of this Iran conflict. My prediction is that oil prices will be much lower.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: As a reminder, this is where U.S. gasoline prices stand right now. On average, Americans are paying over a dollar and 50 more per gallon than they were before the Iran war started at the end of February. Diesel fuel prices also remain sharply higher.

Well, polling shows the economy remains one of the biggest concerns for many voters with the midterm elections now about five weeks away. But the latest political ad from the White House doesn't address that issue at all. Here's part of it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: And we will liberate America from these villains once and for all.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: That ad, which shows the president warning of what he calls the final battle, has drawn scrutiny from a government watchdog group, suggesting it could violate rules against using taxpayer dollars for propaganda. At the same time, U.S. Attorney General Todd Blanche argues there's a national security risk from what the Trump administration considers one-sided news reporting, that it justifies last week's ban of CNN and other media outlets from White House access. A federal judge has since ordered those media credentials to be temporarily restored.

And joining me now is Larry Sabato, the director of the Center for Politics at the University of Virginia and co-author of "Campaign of Chaos: Trump, Biden, Harris, and the 2024 American Election." Larry, appreciate you joining us.

[02:15:00]

LARRY SABATO, DIRECTOR OF CENTER FOR POLITICS AT THE UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA, AUTHOR: Good to be with you as always, Rosemary.

CHURCH: Of course. So, we're just over a month away from the midterms. What are the poll numbers telling you about the issues that will likely decide the outcome and, of course, the seats that may be in play?

SABATO: Well, it's pretty clear now that the Republicans are in deep trouble for these midterms, and they're very likely to lose the House of Representatives. It's 50-50 or so on the U.S. Senate. The reasoning is pretty clear from the voters' perspective. They're paying enormous prices for gasoline, even more for diesel, and food costs continue to increase mainly because the fuel costs are also going up.

I think there are other things at play, too. The war with Iran is not going well, and people are very unhappy that this war that was supposed to last only a few weeks has now moved clearly into the seventh month. That, plus the corruption that has attended the Trump administration, some of it having to do with Iran and the negotiations that are taking place.

But this is a very difficult situation for the incumbent administration, and President Trump himself is in the low 30s now, which is a terrible place to be for an incumbent president right on the eve of elections.

CHURCH: And Larry, you mentioned the war with Iran. It's one of the big issues angering voters, of course, because it's driving up fuel and grocery prices.

And while the U.S. president threatened to annihilate Iran at the U.N. General Assembly last week, he's now referencing the resumption of U.S. talks with Tehran later this week to reopen the Strait of Hormuz. How critical is it for President Trump to end the war before the midterms or is it too late to move the needle in any significant way, do you think?

SABATO: Well, it's probably too late but, obviously, it would help the Republicans if somehow the war was resolved before November 3rd, which is the actual day of the election. It's difficult to see the Iranians doing this.

They've had experience with America before. You could ask Jimmy Carter, where he's still around. He probably lost in the landslide that he did in 1980 because the Iranians did not want to resolve the hostage situation before Election Day or even before the day that Carter left office. I think Trump is realizing some of what Jimmy Carter went through.

I don't see how this could be resolved. And even if it were, it's just too late. People wouldn't see much of a change in fuel prices between now and November 3rd.

CHURCH: And Larry, which other issues are hurting the Republicans and what should the Democrats be doing at this time?

SABATO: We've talked about affordability for two years. It was one of the reasons why Kamala Harris lost and Joe Biden was so unpopular. Well, it's at least as bad as it was then, if not worse in some sectors such as the fuel sector. So, this is something that Biden couldn't deal with successfully, Harris couldn't deal with successfully. The Democrats generally did very poorly in 2024. Now, the shoe is on the other foot.

CHURCH: And Larry, just finally, after Donald Trump's media ban last week on CNN, MS NOW and Politico, even Fox United behind CNN in solidarity when the Trump administration went a step further and withdrew CNN's pool coverage credentials for the president's UNGA trip. But the ban backfired on Trump, giving him very little coverage of the event as well as his meeting with China's Xi Jinping. However, that hasn't stopped the U.S. president from trying again. Why is he doing that and does it hurt or help him, do you think?

SABATO: Oh, this is hurting badly. This has been a disaster in public relations terms. And even some of the White House people off the record will tell you that. They wish they could have talked President Trump out of it. They did go to certain people who have some influence with Trump. He just wouldn't hear it.

This is another example of Donald Trump letting retribution and revenge overtake his better political judgment, assuming he has it. And it has cost him. It's cost him at the worst time again just a month before the election. I don't think that at this point there's anything he could do to make up for it.

And it also earned him a lot of enmity among news media people. I think they will -- while they'll be fair in their coverage as they try to be, it's also true that they will not give him the benefit of the doubt, let's say, if any more corruption comes to the floor. CHURCH: Larry Sabato, always a pleasure. Thanks so much for joining us and sharing your political analysis.

[02:20:01]

SABATO: Thank you very much, Rosemary.

CHURCH: And there's much more to come here on "CNN Newsroom." A powerful nor'easter is losing steam on the northeastern coast of the U.S., but the threat isn't over yet. A look at what's ahead in the forecast. Plus, we're tracking major flooding across parts of Nepal, India, and Thailand as heavy rains continue to sweep across Asia. Back with that and more in just a moment. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHURCH: Welcome back, everyone. Well, powerful storms are causing trouble in parts of the Pacific Ocean. In northern Mexico, people are bracing for the arrival of Hurricane Polo. The storm is expected to make landfall in Baja California Sur on Monday night as a Category 3 hurricane. And in Hawaii, Hurricane Nolo is pulling away from the more populated islands, but getting stronger as it moves across the Pacific. As it moves north, the storm is still expected to bring strong winds and heavy rain to parts of the Big Island and Maui County.

[02:24:58]

COATES: Well, the brutal nor'easter that has hammered parts of the U.S. East Coast is slowly starting to ease up, but the storm is still dumping additional rain on parts of the northeast and it's not expected to fully leave the area for several more days. A New York man -- a New York City man was killed by a falling tree during the storm. Thousands of people are still without power after heavy rain. Flash flooding and wind gusts up to 70 miles an hour.

Well, those conditions are likely to bring more headaches for air travelers into Monday. Flight delays are expected in parts of the northeast as the storm continues to lose steam.

Melissa Nord has more from the World Weather Center.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MELISSA NORD, CNN METEOROLOGIST: This is satellite from space on Sunday. You can see the nor'easter churning off the coastline. And it reached its lowest pressure point, 986 millibars, as it was starting to move on the Jersey coastline, moving inland eventually. And from here, the pressure is increasing, meaning this storm is weakening. And with that, the winds are also coming down, they have been. They will continue to come down.

But they were intense over the weekend. Some of those peak wind gusts topping hurricane strength. Peak wind gusts 81 miles per hour there. A lot of moisture as well. We saw a lot of that moisture working on shore for places like New York City during the day on Sunday. Well, look at Monday morning. Still a really wet and messy commute there. That moisture working northeastward into Boston. Now, some of this rain may be on the lighter side, but there's going to be embedded pockets that could be heavier, and that could lead to some nuisance street flooding, isolated flash flooding as well. That rain by Monday afternoon clearing New York City and also Philadelphia. Still a wet evening commute for Boston. And then by Tuesday morning, the last of the rain just in Maine and everybody else gets to dry out and bring back a little bit of that sunshine.

Wind gusts have been coming down. We go from those peak wind gusts that we saw over the weekend of 60, 70, even 80 miles an hour. Well, at this point, our peak gusts are more in that 20 to 30, maybe 35 mile per hour range through Monday morning. You can see some of those highest gusts. Boston, they saw a lot of airport delays and cancellations for flights on Sunday. We could see even a few more of those lingering delays for Monday morning. Monday afternoon, those winds are coming down a lot.

Rainfall, additional rainfall possible in some places, may only be a half inch to an inch, but there could be a few isolated spots at sea more than that. I think a lot of folks are ready to say farewell to this early season nor'easter.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHURCH: All right. We turn to Thailand now. Bangkok streets were swamped after major storms all weekend. The governor declared a disaster zone in the capital city. Major roads turned into rivers, submerging several cars. The military set up temporary shelters for those in need as well as temporary kitchens.

Severe storms and rain also swept through India over the weekend, triggering landslides that killed at least 56 people. Meanwhile, in Nepal, dozens have been killed in floods and an avalanche at a base camp. The heavy rain has caused rivers to swell, and they are still rising.

So, let's bring in CNN's Hanako Montgomery, who has been tracking the story for us from her vantage point there in Tokyo. Good to see you, Hanako. So, what is the latest on the avalanche and, of course, the flooding in Nepal?

HANAKO MONTGOMERY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Rosemary, over the weekend, Nepal has been battered with extreme weather event after extreme weather event. If we start with the floods first, we know that at least 14 people were killed due to the severe rain and severe flooding. In one video, you can see a multi-storey building falling into a swelling river. I don't know if you can hear this in the video, Rosemary, but people who are on looking at this extreme event scream as they see that building again falling into the river.

Now, separately, we've seen the rivers, of course, overflow, causing some homes to partially submerge and residents being forced to take shelter on their roofs because, again, that's just how much water there currently is on the ground there in the Himalayan country. And, Rosemary, rescue workers have been trying to get people out using ropes to pull people, wearing life vests in waist-deep water, also using inflatable boats to get people to safety.

And, Rosemary, what has been chilling about these images that we're seeing from Nepal right now is that they look very similar to the events that unfolded a little over a month ago now in Nepal, flash floods that killed at least 1,400 people and left more than 5,000 people still missing. Now, of course, that extreme weather event from a little over a month ago has had a bigger death toll and has had more casualties. But, again, it's a very similar event unfolding of extreme weather just battering the country.

[02:29:59]

And, separately, Rosemary, over the weekend on Sunday, we saw an avalanche hit the Himalayan peak of Himlung Himal. We know, according to some of the rescue workers on the ground, that at least 12 people remain missing. All are Nepali nationals. Four bodies have been recovered from the snow, and we're getting some more details about just exactly what happened on Sunday.

And we're told that some of the cooks, some of the organizers of a trekking expedition that was set to take place on October 1st, welcoming visitors from the United Arab Emirates, were at base camp earlier trying to set up these tents, trying to set up these kitchens when again, that avalanche hit on Sunday and caused a torrent of rocks and also snow to cover these workers.

Now, according to one of the organizers of this trekking expedition that spoke to CNN, he's never seen anything like it before, especially in this particular part of the country, which again, just points to how were seeing an increase in the number of extreme weather events, Rosemary.

And just again, to point out that Nepal is still recovering from this event in august, a flash flood that killed over a thousand people. And yet, it's being -- it's having to grapple with yet another disaster on its hands, Rosemary.

ROSEMARY CHURCH, CNN ANCHOR: Well, and, Hanako, dozens of people were also killed by severe weather in India. What more are you learning about that?

MONTGOMERY: Yeah, Rosemary, we know that over 50 people were confirmed killed in India and specifically the state of Uttar Pradesh has been hit particularly badly, according to authorities, between September 25th to September 27th, and about 66.5 millimeters of rain were recorded. And just to put it in some context, in a normal year, about 7.6 millimeters of rain are recorded in that same period. So I mean, more than triple the amount of rainfall that you'd normally see.

And again, Rosemary, I mean, we know that this is a Super El Nino year. Parts of Nepal, parts of India, parts of Thailand, as you described, are being hit with extreme rain. And what's causing a lot of concern right now among some environmentalists, among rescuers, and of course, among governments, is that this extreme weather is expected to continue, which is likely to hamper any rescue efforts that are ongoing and, of course, could lead to potentially more deaths -- Rosemary.

CHURCH: All right. Our thanks to Hanako Montgomery bringing us that live report from Tokyo. Appreciate it.

Still to come, on this hour of CNN NEWSROOM, a pair of giant pandas have landed right here in Atlanta. Details on their 15-hour journey from China and their new home. That's just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHURCH: Welcome back to CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Rosemary Church.

Ping Ping and Fu Shuang are finally here in Atlanta. The male and female giant pandas arrived from China on Sunday morning as part of Beijing's panda diplomacy.

Chinese leader Xi Jinping said the pandas serve as a symbol of friendship between Chinese and American people. They will live at Zoo Atlanta for the next 10 years, home to the most successful panda breeding program in the United States. Seven cubs were born at the animal park between 2006 and 2016.

Visitors will have to wait about a month to see them, though, as they have entered a routine quarantine period.

Well, joining us now is Chee Meng Tan, an assistant professor at the University of Nottingham, Malaysia, and Chinese foreign policy expert.

Appreciate you joining us.

CHEE MENG TAN, CHINESE FOREIGN POLICY EXPERT: Thank you.

CHURCH: So we are seeing this panda diplomacy on full display at Zoo Atlanta after China's President Xi Jinping announced the goodwill gesture last Thursday, saying the giant pandas are an envoy of friendship between the U.S. and China. Now, it's certainly a bright spot amid economic tensions between the two nations. But what does panda diplomacy actually achieve, and will it help improve relations between the two countries?

TAN: Well, panda diplomacy is a form of soft power where China is trying to captivate and capture the hearts and minds of foreign citizens. So the way it's actually done is that its used as a bridge in some ways to actually bridge the gap. The political tensions between the U.S. and China. And it started in 1972, and it became really famous in 1972 when Mao actually gifted a pair of pandas to the Washington Smithsonian's National Zoo.

Well, one of the things that it's supposed to do is because China and America are political rivals in some sense, although they're very heavy trading partners. And so there might be a lot of distrust between both sides and the pandas, as an envoy of gesture and -- gesture of friendship, is used to sort of bridge the sort of tension and the sort of differences that both parties actually have. CHURCH: And, of course, panda diplomacy distracts from the fact that

no significant breakthroughs were made at last weeks meeting between President Trump and President Xi, although the two leaders did agree to extend a trade truce and establish an A.I. hotline, will a distraction work, do you think?

TAN: Well, maybe momentarily. Not in -- it's not -- it's a quick -- it's not a quick fix, so to speak. So I would say that the A.I., the tariffs and all these issues are actually going to be sticklers for both sides. But at the very least I think the symbolism of pandas being national treasures of China actually symbolizes that the Chinese are interested in making sure that the relationship between Beijing and Washington doesn't intensify. It doesn't actually become any worse.

So at the very least, I would say it's a gesture on Xi Jinping's side to actually say that were here to talk. We're here for dialogue, and hopefully things will not actually get worse from here onwards.

CHURCH: Yeah, that's the hope. And of course, as you mentioned, China initiated its panda diplomacy with the U.S. back in 1972 at a state banquet during President Richard Nixon's historic visit to Beijing. And since then, China has never issued a recall of its pandas. But it did let lease agreements expire and brought pandas back in 2019 and 2023 and 2024 as political and diplomatic tensions with Western nations worsened.

So, does this panda diplomacy also work as perhaps a constant barometer of where Chinas relationship stands with various nations?

TAN: I think so. One of the main issues is because pandas are national treasures, so you can't actually just send national treasures to anywhere to any Tom, Dick and Harry, so to speak. So if you're sending pandas to countries that are not very friendly or even hostile towards China, what does this actually say about the Xi Jinping's government?

[02:40:07]

So how do you actually relay this message to the Chinese people on where you're sending your national treasures to? So if you look at certain countries like Malaysia, for instance, has very good relationship -- trading partnership with China. So we have pandas, so does Singapore and Indonesia, although one could actually argue that it's because both all three states actually are literal or states that control or manage the Straits of Malacca. And that's the reason why we have pandas.

But in general, I would agree that it is a barometer. And China doesn't usually recall them. They allow leases to actually expire before they actually come back. But the fact that they don't renew leases basically tell you that there is something going on behind the scenes. So it could be used as a barometer quite effectively I would say.

CHURCH: Yeah, we will be watching the pandas. Chee Meng tan, thank you so much for joining us and sharing your

analysis and perspective on this issue. Appreciate it.

TAN: Thank you.

CHURCH: And we have much more coming up on the program. We will bring you all the details of Pope Leo's last day in France, what he's accomplished on the trip so far, and what's next. That's when we return.

Stay with us

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHURCH: Welcome back, everyone.

President Trump announced plans to welcome Anthropic CEO Dario Amodei at the White House for a private meeting on Sunday night. It comes amid calls from industry experts and lawmakers wanting greater oversight for A.I. Amodei himself has also voiced concerns about the rapid growth of the technology.

But the president has made it clear he won't give up economic gains made by the industry to resolve public concerns. He's more concerned with outpacing China and says problems can be addressed along the way.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're leading and we're building tremendous, you know, trillions of dollars worth of places. And why should we give that up?

[02:45:03]

If something is bad, they have to fix it. And if they don't fix it, that's why you have the Department of Justice. And we've used the Department of Justice on two occasions to straighten out a company that we thought there was a problem with, and they immediately straightened it out. But you don't give up $1 trillion or more, two or three or $4 trillion industry because you think something like that, we will straighten it out if and when a problem occurs.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: Tech billionaire and Microsoft co-founder Bill Gates is sounding a warning about artificial intelligence. In an interview with NBC, he said there has never been a weapon as powerful as people with ill intent using A.I. Gates is joining the call for federal regulations, saying A.I. could potentially cause a billion deaths. Speaking with CNN, Gates also warned its unlike any tool we've had in the past.

Well, Pope Leo XIV is on the final leg of his whirlwind trip to France. It is the first official papal visit to the country in nearly 20 years. The pontiff has just left Lourdes and is now on his way to Metz in northeastern France. He's due to return to Rome late on Monday.

He spent a busy Sunday in Lourdes, which included an emotional meeting with survivors of clerical abuse.

CNN's Christopher Lamb has more details.

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CHRISTOPHER LAMB, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT: We have seen big crowds turning out for the first American pope in France. It might be a very secularized culture here, but there have been hundreds of thousands for Pope Leo. The mass in Paris was extraordinary, with around 800,000 people turning out. And here in Lourdes, also big crowds for the mass on Sunday morning.

And then this evening, a more intimate and you could say prayerful event down at the grotto in Lourdes. Pope Leo leading a procession, a torchlight procession down in the most spiritual and holy part of Lourdes, which is a major pilgrimage site. It is visited by hundreds of thousands of people every year from all over the world.

Now the pope has been following a jam packed schedule here in France. He has met with abuse victims and been facing up to the abuse scandals that have rocked the Catholic Church in France. He's also been speaking out against assisted dying. That is a law assisted dying law that was passed in France recently, and to do so in Lourdes is very significant because this is a place where people who are sick and terminally ill come to.

So, the pope's been emphasizing that as well. And on Monday, the pope will travel to Metz on the France-German border, where he will deliver a very important speech to political leaders in Europe. We're expecting it to focus on unity and peace and he is keeping up really, you know, a hectic schedule as he finishes a four day trip to France that has been really historic and has drawn this incredible turnout

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CHURCH: All right, coming up here on CNN NEWSROOM, a look into the outrage over housing costs in Spain and how the plight of an 87-year- old woman sparked massive protests. Well take a look.

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CHURCH: Welcome back, everyone.

Well, the elderly Spanish woman who was forcibly evicted from her Madrid apartment this week is urging supporters to fight so they can avoid her fate. Over the weekend, protesters filled the streets of Madrid and other Spanish cities demanding solutions to the country's housing crisis.

CNN's Pau Mosquera reports.

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PAU MOSQUERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): No signs of backing down in Spain, protesters are pitching tents in Central Madrid and demanding housing reform. They say skyrocketing rents are pricing them out of their homes.

SERGIO RECALDE, PROTESTER (through translator): We want people to realize that houses are for living in, not for speculation or making a profit.

MOSQUERA (voice-over): Some protesters say they will stay in this encampment until the government takes action to protect tenants and ban evictions without alternative housing.

Demonstrators filled the streets on Saturday. The crowds, galvanized by the eviction of 87-year-old Maricarmen Abascal, who could no longer afford her apartment after living there for seven decades, when an investment company tripled her rent to more than 1,600 euros a month. It reflected a reduction from the company's initial ask. But it was still too much on her pensioner salary

In a video posted by the Madrid Tenants Union, which organized Saturday's rally, Maricarmen encouraged people to join the protests from her hospital bed, where she was taken after she was removed from her home on a stretcher. Her plight has struck a nerve in Spain.

NATALIA NAVARRO, PROTESTER (through translator): I'm here because the housing situation is unsustainable, because there are many people who, even with the minimum wage, cannot afford a room in cities like Madrid, people looking for work, working class people who just need a place to lay their heads, and because they have just evicted an elderly pensioner.

MOSQUERA (voice-over): Analysts say factors like corporate investment, tourism and immigration have increased demand in Spain's housing market. But it's not just older people who are suffering. The average age for leaving home in Spain is 30. Many young people say they simply can't afford to live on their own

BLANCA, PROTESTER (through translator): We, the youngsters, see the impossibility of leaving the nest and how politicians not only do nothing but make it worse. I think we came to a point where we're all so tired of this that we decided to put our foot down.

[02:55:02]

MOSQUERA (voice-over): Spain's prime minister, Pedro Sanchez, has pledged to take action on the housing crisis, invoking Maricarmen's case while urging lawmakers to back an emergency decree.

PEDRO SANCHEZ, SPANISH PRIME MINISTER (through translator): And I call upon the parliamentary groups to make one final effort to ensure it is ratified by the national parliament for the sake of Maricarmen and the millions of Spaniards suffering from the housing crisis. Because this is not a matter of ideology, it is a matter of humanity. MOSQUERA (voice-over): Sanchez's cabinet plans to meet on Tuesday.

Protesters camped out in Madrid say they wont budge until the government delivers real change.

Pao Mosquera, CNN, Madrid.

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CHURCH: The MTV Video Music Awards were handed out Sunday in Los Angeles, and it was a big night for Taylor Swift. She had 11 nominations and took home the award for video of the year for "The Fate of Ophelia". She also received the first ever artist director honors, and she's now surpassed Beyonce as the most awarded artist in VMA history.

As for the night's biggest winner --

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PRESENTERS: Madonna!

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CHURCH: Yes, pop superstar Madonna led all artists, winning seven awards on the night, including best album for "Confessions II". She also snagged artist of the year and best collaboration for bring your love with Sabrina Carpenter.

And Snoop Dogg was the host for this year's VMA ceremony. Other big winners included Lisa from the K-Pop girl group BlackPink, who won best pop song for "Dream", and BTS took home song of the year for "Swim".

Congratulations to all.

Thanks so much for your company this hour. I'm Rosemary Church.

CNN NEWSROOM with Kristie Lu Stout is next after a short break. Do stay with us.

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