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CNN International: Ukrainian President To Attend E.U. Summit In Brussels; Sources: U.S. May use Massive Non-Nuclear Bomb On Iran; Trump Takes Midterm Campaign Blitz To Arizona, Montana; Senate Hopeful James Talarico Speaks With Texas Voters; Immigration, Inflation Push Texas Latinos Toward Talarico. Aired 4-4:30a ET

Aired October 15, 2026 - 04:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[04:00:54]

CHRISTINA MACFARLANE, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and a warm welcome. I'm Christina Macfarlane here in London.

Ahead on "CNN Newsroom," mounting frustration with U.S. President Donald Trump could lead Ukraine to resume its attacks on Russian oil refineries.

Plus, a CNN exclusive, sources telling the network, the U.S. is weighing plans to drop the mother of all bombs on Iranian nuclear sites.

And later, popularity falling, inflation rising, a potentially lethal combination for President Trump and the Republicans less than three weeks from the midterm elections.

ANNOUNCER: Live from London, this is "CNN Newsroom" with Christina Macfarlane.

MACFARLANE: Welcome back to "CNN Newsroom" with me Christina Macfarlane in London.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky tells the "Financial Times" that his country plans to resume strikes on Russia's oil refineries. He also spoke out about what he called a dangerous withdrawal of U.S. intelligence sharing. The comments come amid growing tensions between Zelenskyy and President Trump.

And as the Ukrainian president says, he felt betrayed over the U.S. deal to buy Russian diesel.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT: It's a pity that we are losing. We are losing strong partner. So, this is my opinion. And --

PIERS MORGAN, ENGLISH BROADCASTER: You think you're losing America?

ZELENSKYY: Yes. But -- but not because of us. We -- I mean, this we can't be weak, otherwise, we can't survive. That's why it's painful when President Trump chooses one side, not -- not our side. But we are OK that he's in the middle. But if you are in the middle, you have to stay in the middle, not on the wrong side.

This is not right side of history.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACFARLANE: Well, Zelenskyy is also speaking out about the restrictions on the military-grade version of Elon Musk's Starlink, called Starshield. Ukrainian officials say those restrictions, which caught them off guard, are now disrupting operations.

Musk took to social media to say Starshield systems are owned and controlled by the U.S. government, and that any limits are set by the U.S. military and president.

Well, Zelenskyy is set to attend an E.U. summit in Brussels today, which begins a little later. Ahead of that, he met with British Prime Minister Andy Burnham at Downing Street on Wednesday, where he was greeted with a strong pledge of support.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDY BURNHAM, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: What I have to do in my role is try and repair bridges so that the support comes back. And therefore, I should, at this moment in time, be careful in terms of laying the ground to -- to bring people back together. That is the role I intend to play. It's the right role for me to play in this moment.

I will listen to President Zelensky carefully, but he won't be going away from Britain today empty-handed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACFARLANE: Well, CNN's Nada Bashir is following developments and joins us now here in London.

So, Nada, as we heard there, Prime Minister Burnham pledging rock solid support for Ukraine. But what is that going to mean in reality in terms of military sport and on the diplomatic front as Zelenskyy prepares to attend this E.U. summit in Brussels today?

NADA BASHIR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, as tensions continue to mount between the Ukrainian leader and, of course, U.S. President Donald Trump, we have seen President Zelenskyy trying to shore up and strengthen that support in the previous commitments made by the likes of the United Kingdom and the European Union. That will certainly be his focus today meeting with E.U. officials.

But, of course, as we heard from the U.K. Prime Minister Andy Burnham yesterday pledging that Ukraine would not be walking away empty-handed from those bilateral talks.

Yesterday, we have heard pledges from number 10 Downing Street of further military aid packages, of fiscal packages to support Ukraine through the war effort as Russia's attacks and assault on the country continue.

And we've also heard from Andy Burnham as you heard there in that short clip his efforts to, in his words, build bridges, but also to try to shore up that support from his own allies and counterparts namely in the European.

[04:05:11]

We've heard from the British Chancellor saying that, not only will the U.K. remain committed to its pledge on a maritime ban on Russian liquefied natural gas exports, but it will also try to encourage its European allies to also enforce similar bans as well on Russian LNG exports.

That, of course, will be a key focus for, not only the British government as they continue their talks with European counterparts, but for President Zelenskyy as well.

And, of course, all comes just days after that announcement by the U.S. president, along with Russian President Vladimir Putin, of a deal allowing for Russian diesel exports. This, of course, stands in contravention of previous U.S. sanctions against Russia following its initial invasion of Ukraine.

And this has drawn significant bipartisan backlash in the United States, but it has also drawn widespread concern and sent alarm bells ringing, not only in Ukraine, but also in the European Union around what this could mean for the U.S.'s further support for Ukraine.

And as you mentioned, we have now heard from Zelenskyy saying that time is up when it comes to that block, as he phrased it to the "Financial Times," on targeting Russian oil refineries.

Of course, President Trump had -- had asked, had demanded, rather, that Ukraine cease its attacks on Russian oil refineries and that there would be, in his words, an energy ceasefire between the two warring countries, something that appeared to take both leaders, both Vladimir Putin and President Zelenskyy, by surprise.

And, of course, since that announcement on Sunday, we have seen Russia continuing to deliver quite painful attacks targeting Ukraine's energy infrastructure, leaving more than 600,000 people without power in Ukraine.

Clearly, that energy ceasefire, as announced by the U.S. president, is clearly not working in practice. What that will mean for the U.S.'s own foreign policy decisions over the coming days, of course, remains to be seen.

But certainly, the main focus for President Zelenskyy, at this current point in time, is trying to really shore up that support from the European Union, from the United Kingdom in the face of those mounting tensions with the Trump administration.

MACFARLANE: Nada, thank you. We're going to have more on this important story later this hour as the fallout continues clearly to be felt on so many levels here. Nada Bashir, thank you.

We're turning now to some major new developments in the war with Iran. Two cargo ships have now sunk in the Strait of Hormuz within 24 hours following separate strikes. A Singapore-flagged container ship was hit on Tuesday and a merchant vessel also went down a few weeks after it was struck. Iran is stepping up attacks in an effort to regain control over the critical waterway.

Also, an exclusive report that the U.S. military is considering using what's known as the mother of all bombs against Iran. U.S. officials tell CNN the bomb would target Iranian energy infrastructure and nuclear sites. The Massive Ordnance Air Blast bomb or MOAB, M-O-A-B, is the largest non-nuclear bomb in the U.S. arsenal.

CNN's Leila Gharagozlou has been tracking all of this and joins us from Abu Dhabi. So, Leila, this exclusive reporting on the bomb comes as Trump is, of course, facing pressure to bring an end to this deeply unpopular war ahead of the midterms.

What were you learning about the details here?

LEILA GHARAGOZLOU, CNN PRODUCER: Yes. So, as you said, this is a CNN exclusive about the U.S. potentially using this mother of all bombs on Iran. As you know, this war has really been at a stalemate for the last couple of months. And at this point, it really feels like a game of chicken between the U.S., Iran, and Israel. So, who will blink first? Who will make that first move to either escalate or to try to find a political solution?

So far, we've seen Iran obviously ramp up those attacks in the Strait of Hormuz to really reassert their control and dominance. And we've heard quite a few different reports over what the U.S. and Israel might do either before the midterms or just after the midterms.

Now, Iran has said, over the course of this war, that they will not stand for a no peace, no war kind of limbo situation. And it does look like the U.S. is also coming to the point where they want to take some sort of action.

This, as you said, is a deeply unpopular war in the U.S. And the administration has been looking for a way out of this conflict, and perhaps this is, to their mind, the way out.

Now, a few things to know about that mother of all bombs, the MOAB, is that it is a massive bomb. It is very devastating. And the experts who spoke to CNN said that it could really impact the populations around any area where it is dropped.

[04:10:00]

But it isn't the kind of bomb that will really be able to penetrate those deep nuclear sites like the one that is suspected to be under, let's say, Pickaxe Mountain. So, it's not necessarily going to achieve what the U.S. may want.

Now, that's the other question that really comes up when we're looking at any decision the U.S. may take, and that is, what are the U.S.'s goals? The strategic goals of this war have shifted from when it started in February to now. First, it was potential regime change, then an end to the nuclear program, then the opening of the Strait. And none of that has really been achieved.

And the Iranian administration hasn't changed course when it comes to their decision making. So, it's unclear what this bomb will really achieve in its strategic mission if it's dropped besides, you know, perhaps being, as some of the experts told CNN, a psychological tool.

But as we've seen for the past, you know, well over six months, the Iranian government, no aerial bombardment, no blockade, no sanctions have really changed their behavior. So, something that is just an optical kind of big blast may not really do much for their decision- making.

The other element to this, though, is whether this bomb will make them shift their decision-making to -- before the midterms as to whether to take action or not, Christina.

MACFARLANE: Yes. The timing of -- of this announcement or this reporting is -- is very significant in light of the three weeks we have left to the midterms.

Leila, great analysis as always. Thank you so much.

Now, U.S. President Donald Trump is once again urging voters to pretend his name is on the ballot in November's midterm elections. Campaigning in Arizona on Wednesday, the president acknowledged that he may have gone too far in killing Iranian leaders. He says, he's not sure who to deal with.

And on the domestic front, he urged voters to support Republican Congressman Andy Biggs in Arizona's race for governor.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We won all seven swing states. We won Arizona by the largest margin. Think of it. We won Arizona in a landslide. The largest number of votes ever gotten. Just give some of them to Andy, please. Would you give some of those votes to Andy?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACFARLANE: More now from CNN's senior White House reporter, Kevin Liptak.

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KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: President Trump wrapped up a two-day swing through the American West here in Montana, and the goal in all of these stops was the same, to try and get rural voters, these people who voted for the president overwhelmingly during his own contest to turn out to vote in this year's midterm elections. And when you talk to Republicans, that is a big concern that these voters will just not go out to the polls in an election where the president is not up himself. And you hear him repeat that at his rallies over and over to pretend that I'm on the ballot. He said it in Alaska, he said it in Arizona. And he repeated again here in Montana.

Now, here the really marquee race is for the House. This hits conservative radio host, Arron Flint against firefighter and a union leader, Sam Forstag. He's the Democrat, Flint is the Republican.

Now, before the president arrived, I spoke to Flint and he was frank. He acknowledged that they have identified thousands and thousands of voters in this district who vote during presidential elections but don't turn out during the midterms. And he said that the goal in accompanying President Trump and in appearing with him here was to try and get those people to vote.

But, of course, the real risk for any Republican appearing alongside the president is that he's very unpopular and that -- that could potentially be a liability for them.

Now, Flint kind of dodged that question when I asked him about it, but certainly President Trump is unpopular in Montana. His approval rating has slipped. That's in part due to the Iran war. It's in part due to the economy. And Democrats are really trying to seize on that.

The big issue here is housing. You know, out-of-staters have moved to Montana, and that has had the effect of driving up housing prices. I talked to the Democrat in this race, Sam Forstag, and he acknowledges that the Democratic brand in Montana has slipped. He says that people are pissed off at the Democratic Party. That was the word that he used, but he said that he did not think that President Trump coming here would necessarily help Republicans.

Now in his speech President Trump said that his only job here was to get good candidates across the finish line. And he said that he would be out for the next several weeks trying to get Republicans elected into the House and Senate.

[04:15:16]

Kevin Liptak, CNN, Kalispell, Montana.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MACFARLANE: One of the closest and certainly the most expensive U.S. Senate races this year is in Texas. Democrat James Talarico met with voters at a CNN town hall on Wednesday, hoping to win support from undecided voters.

CNN's -- excuse me, Jeff Zeleny was there.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: James Talarico made a direct appeal to supporters and skeptics alike, pledging that he would put the needs of Texas above his own party. As he is asking voters to do something they have not done in 38 years, that's elect a Democrat to the U.S. Senate.

JAMES TALARICO, (D) TEXAS SENATE CANDIDATE: I have no problem sharing hard truths with my party, if it's what's best for Texas.

ZELENY: Now in the final days of his hard-fought race with Republican rival Ken Paxton, who has spent millions trying to brand Talarico as too liberal for Texas, Talarico has sought to present himself as a moderate. And he pushed back against the border policies of the Biden administration and said he does not support abolishing ICE.

TALARICO: No, and I never have. We need Immigration and Customs Enforcement in this country, but that's not what we're seeing. What we've seen over last year is a secret police force, and that's what we don't want in this country.

ZELENY: In a remarkable exchange face-to-face with a voter, he invoked humility as he talked about abortion.

TALARICO: We're both Christians, and -- and the Bible is silent on the issue of abortion. It means you and I both have to look at -- at different scriptures to try to come to a conclusion.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just want to add that the Bible is not silent on abortion. There is the Ten Commandments, thou shalt not kill.

TALARICO: If I believed if -- that abortion was murder, that it violated the Ten Commandments, then I wouldn't support it. And so it's OK that you and I come to different conclusions about that.

ZELENY: But he also sought to move beyond the divisive cultural issues in this race back to more of a populist message saying that he is a champion for the working class.

TALARICO: The only minority destroying America is the billionaires. They -- they are constantly trying to divide us.

ZELENY: Now early voting starts here in Texas on Monday. This is the final stretch of a consequential campaign that could hold the balance of power for the Senate in its hands.

Jeff Zeleny, CNN, Fort Worth, Texas.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MACFARLANE: Joining me now is CNN's senior political analyst and Bloomberg opinion columnist, Ron Brownstein. Good to see you again, Ron.

I'm sure you were listening in --

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Good morning.

MACFARLANE: -- to all of that. And it's interesting, you know, because Texas have not elected a Democratic senator since I think 1988. And James Talarico is being dramatically outspent by Republicans here. And yet, he is running slightly ahead of his opponent right now. I mean, how remarkable do you find that, you know, with just three weeks to go to midterms? And do you reckon we could see that pattern play out in other safe Republican seats as well?

BROWNSTEIN: Yes, you know, I was there during those last elections when Democrats were winning in the late '80s and early '90s Ann Richards.

Yes, I think Texas is a perfect embodiment of the dynamic we're seeing across the country.

You know, the -- the -- the map in this year's U.S. election is being determined, not only by the depth, but the breadth of Trump's decline. So, he is losing ground in a way that was not true in his first term, even among core Republican constituencies, rural voters, as Kevin noted, non-college white voters, MAGA -- non-MAGA Republicans, Republicans who identify with the party not with his MAGA movement.

And all of those dynamics are allowing Democrats to compete in states that have been out of reach for them for years; Texas, Alaska, Ohio, Iowa, even -- even Kansas.

The -- the kind of the dynamic keeping Democrats up at night is kind of the -- the flip side of that. These are states where they haven't competed for years. And they worry about a reversion to the need in the final days.

MACFARLANE: Yes, it's sort of uncharted territory for the Democrats for -- for quite some time.

Look, Ron, we know the economy is, of course, central to these midterms. And we heard those ugly inflation figures were released yesterday showing this is, I think, the highest rate of inflation since May. And actually, the highest rate of inflate -- the highest that inflation rates have been before a midterm election, with the exception of the pandemic, since 1990.

I mean, this is just damning news for Republicans, isn't it? At a time when Donald Trump's trying to convince voters that he's easing the cost of living. How toxic do you think this is going to be for them?

BROWNSTEIN: Yes. You know, look, people forget that in 2018, which was obviously a tough election in Trump's first term, two-thirds of Americans described the economy in positive terms on election day.

[04:20:10]

Now, three quarters describe it in negative terms. And that really, again that -- that, you know, in many ways, gap -- done what January 6th could not do, which is shatter the -- the Trump coalition.

And again, that is above all what is allowing Democrats to contest these places that in the end are still very uphill, tough -- tough ground for them, tough terrain.

But the level of economic discontent that is causing even core Trump constituencies to basically say, we can't keep going on this way, has allowed them to dream of gains that seemed unimaginable even at the beginning of this year.

MACFARLANE: Yes. And, Ron, I just want to return to something you touched on a minute ago about, you know, Donald Trump, the -- the -- the cult of Donald Trump in these midterm elections. And because we know that approval ratings for him have fallen across the board in recent weeks.

And, you know, this -- this -- this campaigning from Trump has been a bit of a split screen of sorts so far with, you know, Donald Trump seeking to personalize this election, present himself as the driving force behind Republican achievements, while at the same time distancing himself from certain Republican campaigns, I guess, owing to his unpopularity.

So, what do you see as being his strategy here? Is it about maximizing turnout without causing too much damage, that sort of balancing act?

BROWNSTEIN: Yes. Look, I -- I think what he's doing is defensive, but not delusional. I mean, the places where -- he just keep coming back to the core reality that, virtually, every competitive House and Senate race is being fought out in a district where Trump won in 2024.

So, he's right that there are Republican voters to activate in those places who are probably not currently, you know, indicating they plan to vote because they are discontent.

But -- but it's also true that his approval rating is now probably under 50 and virtually under all of those places that he won just two years ago, which means that he is very much of a mixed blessing, maybe even a negative for Republican candidates in these places.

Because even if he activates more Republican voters, standing next to Trump is almost certain to compound your problem with independent voters, where his approval rating is truly staggeringly low.

Christina, one thing to keep in mind, his approval rating is almost 10 points lower today than it was in 2018. It's lower than Biden in '22, Barack Obama, 2010, Bill Clinton, 1994, and even George W. Bush in 2006, which is the modern low point. And when presidents get down this low, bad things happen to their parties on elections.

MACFARLANE: Yes, certainly do. It's quite striking numbers, Ron. And, obviously, all of this indicates a huge opening for the Democrats, but plenty of questions there about whether they will seize the mantle in the right way.

Ron, we're going to have to leave it there. But as always, really great hearing your thoughts on this. Thank you.

BROWNSTEIN: Thanks for having me.

And the 2024 presidential election saw a dramatic swing in Latino voters towards Republican and President Trump. But the administration's immigration policies, as well as rising costs, have angered many, meaning the pendulum could swing back, as we were saying there, to Democrats, even in places like Texas.

Carolina Peguero has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CAROLINA PEGUERO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We're here in Rio Grande Valley, Texas, trying to get a sense of what's on people's mind as the state heads into one of the most important Senate races.

Democrat James Talarico is taking on Republican Ken Paxton as he tries to break a Republican streak that goes back decades. No Democrat has won a Texas Senate race since 1988 before Talarico was born.

We came here to the Tortilleria Factory, also known as El Pocito Restaurant, and historic place here in McAllen. And we spoke to the owner, Irma, who prepares handmade tortillas. We spoke to her and her daughters, who are American citizens, about those topics that are important to them during these midterm elections.

IRMA GONZALEZ, BUSINESS OWNER (through text translation): Immigration policy is very tough right now. That is precisely why the economy is so weak with the raids and all that, many people simply don't want to go out.

PEGUERO (through text translation): Senate candidate James Talarico visited this shop. Tell me about that. And what do you expect from him?

[04:25:04]

RODRIGUEZ (through text translation): I hope he wins and does something good, something better.

I expect something good from him. I know he really will do something good.

PEGUERO (through text translation): What was your impression to him?

RODRIGUEZ (through text translation): My impression is that he genuinely wants to help us. He wants to do something for the Hispanic community and for everyone.

PEGUERO: Irma works here with her three daughters who are American citizens and who will be participating in these midterm elections, and who are looking for a change that will help the Latino community.

Your mom was telling me that this is like so important for you and for her because you're voting in reality for her.

ANA GONZALEZ, LATINA VOTER: I hope we make a difference.

PEGUERO: Yes.

GONZALEZ: Hasn't been very well for the past couple years, but hopefully everyone goes out and votes. It doesn't matter for who.

PEGUERO: We're also talking to young voters about their own questions for Talarico and what he brings to the table.

CECILLIA SAN MINUGEL, COLLEGE STUDENT: Like economy, like the money and stuff. I've seen it like a lot with my parents, how like -- like gas prices, grocery prices, how like before it was way easier to buy all that stuff. But now you go to the grocery store, you easily, like, for just regular -- like, weekly groceries, you pay like 200 maybe.

CINDY RUIZ, COLLEGE STUDENT: It will be immigration, especially because of how many times I have seen like a lot of the people that I know or, like, close people by being taken by immigrations and as well as like the police brutality that has been happening around too.

SEBASTIAN PEREZ, COLLEGE STUDENT: If I could ask him in general about like economy, that kind of stuff, that -- that's what I'd be most interested in.

PEGUERO: And as the race unfolds, the question is whether the next senator will meet the needs of the residents here in Texas.

Carolina Peguero, CNN, McAllen, Texas.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MACFARLANE: Some breaking news out of northern Pakistan. Authorities say the roof of a school there has collapsed. At least 27 children and one teacher were killed. Nearly 50 children are injured. Some are still trapped in the rubble as rescue crews try to reach them.

And video from a scene in Peshawar obtained by CNN shows ambulances rushing through the narrow streets and crowds gathered outside the school building. Emergency officials say heavy rainfall caused the roof of the two-story building to collapse. We will course continue to monitor this and bring you the latest developments as we learn more.

We'll be right back after this.

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