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CNN Special Reports

Interview with Donald Trump. Aired 9-10p ET.

Aired August 19, 2015 - 21:00   ET



UNIDENTIFED MALE: The following is a CNN Special Report.


DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think the voters like me. They understand me.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN SPECIAL REPORT HOST: He is on top of every poll you want to look at.

HILLARY CLINTON, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Don't let the circus distract you.

CUOMO: The Donald, in striking range of Clinton.

TRUMP: Nobody better than Donald Trump.

CUOMO: People do not want a president that attacks Mexicans, that attacks immigrants...

TRUMP: They're bring drugs, they're bringing crime, they're rapists.

CUOMO: ... attacks women...

UNIDENTIFED MALE: What Donald Trump said is wrong.

CUOMO: I cherish women.

UNIDENTIFED MALE: He's becoming a jackass.

TRUMP: We're led by stupid people.

UNIDENTIFED FEMALE: Donald domination.

TRUMP: Ladies and gentlemen, president of the United States, Donald J. Trump.


CUOMO: All right. Thanks for joining us. We can all agree that the election is certainly exciting much earlier than usual. And face it it's because of Donald Trump. Inspired or disgusted he has many of you thinking or arguing. And he has the media in high gear. Now he got to where he is in the race to this point by being an outsider with a lot of fame and fervor (ph) but no real shot who then shocked the political establishment by becoming the face of the GOP's discontent.

But tonight, you're going to see a different Donald Trump, a frontrunner, someone with something to lose with a growing weight of expectations. And not just be loud but to be a leader for his party and maybe even beyond.

So tonight, listen to what he does and does not say about immigration, trade, jobs, ISIS, all the big issues. And even the straight talk he has for the pope. And you will get a look at it personal as well -- how he feels about his family being exposed to the toxic political environment and the role his wife may play in the days ahead.

Now, this conversation couldn't come in a better time. Our CNN/ORC poll shows Trump within striking distance of Hillary Clinton where the presidential election held today just six points behind the Democratic frontrunner.

So you think you know what he's going to say about that poll? Huge. Prepare to be surprised.


CUOMO: So we have the polls in politics, we have policy and we have the personal. They're all Ps and we'll jump around as seems right to you.

TRUMP: OK. That's fine.

CUOMO: The latest CNN/ORC poll -- you don't get more accurate than that. It has you for the first time considered competitive in the general election. Six points separating you and Hillary Clinton. You must be shocked?

TRUMP: Well, it's not my focus right now. Right now, I have 16 other people that I'm looking at and that's not my focus but indirectly it probably is. And I think Hillary's going to get a hard time being in the election based on what's happening with the e-mails, the servers maybe even the speeches. I think it's going to be a very hard thing for her to overcome.

When I look, Chris, at what happened with Petraeus on a much moral level -- great general, wonderful guy, everybody loves him -- and they've destroyed his life over much less. I mean in terms of confidentiality, in terms of importance, much less and far fewer. And it would seem hard to think that somebody could have a much worse situation than him and escape.

CUOMO: Well, the factual distinction would be that that was classified information with Petraeus. And he knew it and he used it. Here, we do not know yet that...

TRUMP: Wait...

CUOMO: ... Hillary Clinton was doing the wrong thing or mishandling classified information...

TRUMP: But it looks like it was...

CUOMO: ... does that matter?

TRUMP: ... and it certainly looks like it was very high level information. And what's the purpose of it? You know, it's always scouting the edge, what's the purpose of it? In the end, she had something in mind. She didn't want the people to know or something, but what is she doing? Why is she doing it?

CUOMO: You think this is really going to hurt her long-time?

TRUMP: I think it's devastating. I think it's devastating for the election but I think her bigger problem is not the election. I think her bigger problem is going to be the criminal problem.

CUOMO: Really? You really think that this could turn out to be a criminal situation for Hillary Clinton...

TRUMP: Well...

CUOMO: ... because there's no reference of that from the investigators right now.

TRUMP: ... I don't think I'm the only one. I mean the FBI's involved. They only do criminal. I don't think I'm the only one. Now, maybe it's somebody in her staff but look, it's either criminal or incompetence. Just one or the other. You see the gross incompetence or criminal. And neither is acceptable to be president.

CUOMO: I feel like you're skipping the headline. You're six points from Hillary Clinton. Nobody would have expected that. You're kind of glossing over it. Why? Shouldn't you be saying, "Six points? I can't believe I'm not ahead."

TRUMP: Well, that's one thing I could say, I guess. You know, I think we'll do very well against Hillary. Hillary's record as secretary of state was a disaster. She was in favor - totally in favor of the Iraq War which is obviously not a good soundbite.

I think we're going to do very well. And as you know, I've been against it for years -- the Iraq War. I said you're going to decimate Iraq, Iran will take over the Middle East and take over Iraq which is exactly what's happening, and somebody's going to come and take over the leftover oil. And who did that turn out to be? ISIS.

So if you look at 2004, exactly what I said happened.

[21:05:02] So call it vision. I have to call it vision because I'm trying to get elected. For the first time in my life, I'm trying to get elected. Right, I'm a politician all of a sudden but that was a certain vision. I've gotten a lot of credit for it. They made a terrible mistake and then they made a terrible mistake the way they got out. And in my opinion, even they made an even worst mistake not keeping the oil because ISIS took the oil and Iran is going to take the rest of it.

CUOMO: People wanted out from it, Mr. Trump. And they didn't want forces there. They don't want forces there now. If you wanted to do what you sometimes suggest which is take the oil, that would take troops, that would take danger, that would take blood and treasure.

TRUMP: Well, I'd like to take the oil and I'll give a lot of money to the people that work, to the families of the people who were killed, to the incredible wounded warriors that are all over the place. I love these people. These are the greatest people and they're living in hell. And I'd give lots of money to them, their families. I mean look at the people.

We spent $2 trillion, thousands of people killed, thousands -- tens of thousands of wounded warriors. We have nothing. Right now, Iran is going to take over Iraq and ISIS has already taken big parts of the wealthy section of Iraq.

CUOMO: Would it be worth creating more wounded veterans in order what you want to do there?

TRUMP: Well, I see, what I will do, you wouldn't have that many. I will just take over the source of their wealth. A big source of their wealth is the oil. And also, if you look at what's going on the banks. The Iranian banks, the Saudi banks, they're funneling money into ISIS and yet we helped these people.

We make this horrible deal for -- I mean one of the worst. I think it will go down as one of the worst deals ever made by a country with another country and it's going to lead to whether it's nuclear destruction. You could name lots of bad scenarios but the deal with Iran is a totally incompetently negotiated transaction.

CUOMO: Wasn't one of the reasons -- and I know they're many and it's complex -- but that the allies felt they needed to do a deal with Iran was obviously the nukes but also Iran has been helpful with ISIS. They've been fighting ISIS for whatever reasons. Maybe they're good, or neutral or bad reasons, but they've been fighting against ISIS not trying to help ISIS.

TRUMP: Well, you know, there's a whole thing going on. Firs of all, you look at Iran with Syria. Now, ISIS is fighting Syria. We're supposed to be Syria's great enemy but we're fighting ISIS. And you could almost say, why are we fighting ISIS and Syria? Let ISIS fight with Syria and take up the leftovers and do whatever you have to do.

So Assad should be looking at us saying, "Hey, these are supposed to be my enemies but they're the ones that are fighting ISIS and ISIS is a very, very big enemy from his standpoint. So there's so many mistakes we're making in the Middle East that's incredible.

But when you look at just that one thing, ISIS wants to go after Syria, we're fighting ISIS with Syria. now, the other thing is ISIS is taking oil in Syria. I am all for the oil. I want to take care ourselves. I want to rebuild this country. We should focus on the wealth of ISIS. We have to do something with ISIS.

While I was against going after Iraq because it will destabilize the Middle East, I was right. Now we have to do something. When they're chopping off heads because a person's a Christian -- and by the way, chopped off heads of almost anybody anyway -- and you have people that are living in hell. I mean this is like medieval time. So we have to do something.

But, I say take the wealth, take the oil. And I also say, give lots of money and there'll be plenty leftovers -- peanuts by comparison -- to the families of those soldiers that died and to the wounded warriors -- plenty of money to them because they deserve it.

CUOMO: When you think about ISIS and what you do to stop them, how much of it for you is about the military? How much of it for you is about doing other things -- political things to strengthen the regions that they are preying upon?

TRUMP: Well, I think a lot of it is about the military. And I think one of the things I noticed in your poll, I came out way, way ahead of everybody on the economy and a lot of people weren't surprised to see that. But I also came way out ahead on the military. And...

CUOMO: And ISIS, specifically.

TRUMP: ... and ISIS. I think I will be a great Slipper in the military because people wouldn't think it's my strength but I would think it would be one of my strengths. I want to build up our military. I want to have such an incredible military that nobody's going to play games with us, nobody's going to mess with us, and hopefully we won't have to use our military. But we need a powerful military.

Being in the real estate business, I get so many listings of bases, army bases, navy bases, you know, there's so many all the time, a base to sell, a place where they have soldiers. I keep saying how many of these places do they have where I can get all these listings? You'd take a look, a lot of sales of bases -- military bases. I will build up our military so strong, so powerful, that nobody will mess with us.

And I think actually, that will be the thing that I will be really just about the best dad.


CUOMO: So does Donald Trump really think that United States isn't the strongest military in the world? We're going to ask him that right after the break. What do you think so far? Hit me up on social media using the hashtag #trumponcnnn or wait until you hear what comes next.

Does Trump really get his take on ISIS and everything you just heard from what he sees from T.V.?

[21:10:00] Plus, the famous names he says he already has lined-up to take on some of our biggest challenges and why he thinks Hillary Clinton has a better chance of becoming a convict than a winning candidate. Stay with us.


CUOMO: Welcome back. Now, the biggest reason many Americans support Donald Trump is pretty simple one. Right or wrong, they think his ability to get rich would translate into making all of us better-off by running the economy like a big business. Proof is in the poll. Take a look, Trump, best prepared Republican to deal with the economy but can he deliver. Listen to what he has to say about job creation, trade deals, and diplomacy. He talks, you decide.


TRUMP: I'll be the greatest jobs president that God ever created. I'll take them back from China, from Japan, from Mexico, which is doing an incredible job. Their leaders are much smarter than our leaders. They're taking tremendous industry.

Look, Nabisco just announced they're building a big plant. They're leaving Chicago. I mean Nabisco -- how American can you get? Nabisco is building a big plant in Mexico. Ford is building a $2.5 billion factory car plant -- manufacturing plant for cars trucks and parts ion Mexico.

CUOMO: How do you keep them?

TRUMP: You keep them by...

CUOMO: Because their labors cheap that's why they go.

TRUMP: ... well, first -- for one thing, you keep them by talking to them.

[21:15:00] But I would say, you keep them -- if they go there, you know, they'll make cars and they'll sell them to the United States. No tax, no nothing. Just come right across the border. The next thing you know they have the illegals driving right across the border, take them in, drive them in, it's cheaper that way, OK?

I mean you have to talk to these people. You have to go and see the head of Ford. And you have to talk...

CUOMO: And they say the labors cheaper over there.

TRUMP: ... and you know what, we'll say, "That's fine the labors cheaper over there that's good but, you know what, you're going to have to pay a tax to get the cars back in. You got to have to pay a penalty." And if you a penalty on it, a tariff, or whatever you call it. And believe me, China's doing it to us. China dumps all their stuff -- and I'm not complaining about that but you -- I have friends in the manufactures, they cannot get their product into China. So if they're going to do it to us, we have to do it to them.

CUOMO: And they'll say, "But then, my cars are going to cost more for your people."

TRUMP: No, you know what? They're going to make cars here and maybe a person will buy fewer cars over a course of a lifetime. Who cares? We have to have? We have to bring back our jobs, Chris. We have to do it. We have no choice.

CUOMO: I hear you but of course here comes how. You know, on this scenario, you just have Ford saying it's cheaper over there. You're going to punish the consumer.

TRUMP: I will tell you. You're not punishing the consumer and you're strengthening our country. We have $18 trillion. It's going to be -- very soon it's going to be $20 trillion that we owe.

CUOMO: True. Big day.

TRUMP: We have to start creating jobs. We have to start creating wealth. We all go to good schools. I go to grade schools, you go to grade -- you don't have to be even a smart -- you don't have to be the greatest student to know when Ford builds this massive plant to build cars and they bring them back into our country, no tax, we get nothing. We get nothing.

They leave Michigan the other night. Unbelievable people. We have an unbelievable crowd. They leave Michigan. They take them out of Detroit and all over the place. And they go to Mexico. There's no way that helps us. And you're going to have to do something with the tariff at the border.

If they're going to make cars over there, if they're going to leave the United States give great jobs for Mexico and not the United States, you know what, it's fine. But they have to pay some kind of a price.

We are getting killed on trade.

CUOMO: All right. Let me go back...

TRUMP: And interestingly, Carl Icahn agrees with me. And Carl Icahn, you know, is a great negotiator and I have many other great negotiators and they are dying to get involved.

CUOMO: But you wouldn't really put him in-charge of China?

TRUMP: I would absolutely.

CUOMO: In-charge of China?

TRUMP: Can I tell you what...

CUOMO: Please, because you know what makes people think -- it's like...

TRUMP: ... in-charge of China.

CUOMO: ... this is not a business, it's a whole political governmental thing.

TRUMP: No, no, no. It's a business too. Hey, you can come up with me in this building you'll see the largest bank in the world from China is in this -- I have a great relationship with China just like I do with Mexico.

CUOMO: Right. But don't we need diplomacy in all of the policy...

TRUMP: No. We have diplomacy now. They're killing us and they don't even like us. So we have diplomacy. So we're diplomatic. They don't like us and they're beating us. With me, they'll like us and we'll beat them. OK?

CUOMO: The...

TRUMP: You know, how do I have the biggest bank as my tenant? I mean they're tenants and I have them in order branch (ph). China -- I sell tremendous numbers of units, apartments to people from China. They love me. A Business Weekend story, "What are the 10 things that the Chinese most want?" One of the 10 things was anything Trump. And I say, "Really is that right?"

They respect the truth. They understand they're ripping us off. I take a guy like Carl Icahn, you take Henry Kravis, you take so many of the guys that I know, and you say, "You know what? I'd like you to watch over the deals that are being made with China because we're getting killed on trade."

Believe me, we will be so good. You should get a guy like Carl on, very smart, great negotiator. We will be so good.

CUOMO: DO you think he'll take a job like that?

TRUMP: He'll do it in two seconds. He's already told me he'd love to do it.

CUOMO: To oversee China?

TRUMP: Oversee the trade deal.

CUOMO: The trade deal?

TRUMP: Oversee the trade deals in China.

CUOMO: Right.

TRUMP: In fact, I'd give him China, I'd give him Japan. He can handle both of them believe me. But I have others. These are the greatest -- we have the smartest, the greatest negotiators in the world. We have the greatest business people in the world. We don't use them. We use people like -- I mean she's a very nice person -- my daughter likes her -- Ivanka loves her a lot so she has to do wonderful -- Caroline Kennedy.

In Japan, she didn't even know how she got the job. I watched in "60 Minutes", she said -- I asked her the job. "They gave me the job." They said, would you like to be ambassador to Japan? I said, "Really? Really?"

CUOMO: Sure.

TRUMP: And you know, the ambassador to Japan has a big role in trade.

CUOMO: Sure.

TRUMP: I would rather much have Henry Kravis. I would much rather have Carl Icahn. I would much rather have other people doing it. An you know what? We'll come out great.

Hey, Chris, I was in Los Angeles. And I saw ships coming in from Japan -- the biggest ships I've ever seen loaded up with cars -- thousands of cars. They're pouring off the ships.

CUOMO: Because they're cheaper.

TRUMP: Wait a minute. They're pouring off the ships, you know, we send them? Beef. And they don't want it because they say, "We don't want it." And we send them wheat, they don't want it. And you know, what the imbalance is between these over the years millions of cars and the little stuff we send them? It's massive. We've got to equalize it.



CUOMO: So there, Donald Trump talking to you about why you should trust him to make a difference in what problems we're seeing -- very obvious to everyone about the economy. Now despite his positions, specifically even when it comes to immigration and Hispanics, he says they love him which you all also heard him say about the Chinese.

Now, that takes us to a little peak at vintage Trump. Take a look at this. The interview ends, he is walking over to a group of fans and waves to me to come meet two of them in particular. Look who is singled out?


UNIDENTIFED FEMALE: We Trump. We're Mexican-American.

TRUMP: To win the Latino -- we're going to win the Hispanic, right?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'll work for you sir.


CUOMO: There is much more on Trump's latest stands on immigration for you in this interview specifically his new position that kicking people out who were born here is the right thing to do if their parents are undocumented.

Now, it doesn't the 14th Amendment not allow that like why Trump says, the Supreme Court got it wrong and he can fix it. And Trump says he cherish his woman. You've heard that and he thinks they should fight in all areas of the military. Rhonda Rousey, you out there? You're going to want to hear this.


CUOMO: Let's go back to Donald Trump as Commander-in-Chief. This isn't just about the plan. It's about the leadership behind it. The idea is behind it.

Now, Trump had said some controversial things like the answer to ISIS is to surround the oil fields in Iraq with U.S. troops and that he knows not many of those troops will die doing that, that Iran is actually funding ISIS and that he as a better general than a general who helped take down Saddam.

[21:25:15] But what really raises eyebrows is that much of the basis for these views comes from what Donald Trump says he sees on T.V. Is that true?

See for yourself.


CUOMO: So, you said something earlier about the poll that you came out ahead on ISIS that was a surprise to people. One of the reasons...

TRUMP: But not to me because I talked about it a lot.

CUOMO: I understand. But one of the reasons that might have been surprising is something else you said which is that you get a lot of your military analysis from watching television. That...

TRUMP: See I didn't exactly say that. I watch your show. And I watch other shows. And you have the best channels, the best everything...

CUOMO: We do. We have great staff.

TRUMP: OK. Frankly, probably better than I could get. In all fairness, you know, what do I know? I'm a man that made a great fortune. I'm going to make our country rich and I'm going to make our great, but you know what, you do not get me the right generals and I'll see four, five generals. I'll see all sorts of people that live in stoop down the colonel stuff. You go all over the place.

But you have a lot of different people and so are other shows and they're really good people. And I watched that and read the Times. And I read the Wall Street Journal. I know we have a lot of other news page.

CUOMO: But you need a team, aren't you?

TRUMP: And I read magazines specially Time Magazine this week because I'm on the cover. OK. So I specially will look at it. But I read magazines and I read other things. Yeah, sure I need a team but, you know, by the time you get to a problem, you know, we're talking a long ways away, it's going to be changed. You can have a whole different set of -- I mean different countries will be run by different people in all fairness. So when I watch...

CUOMO: But you'll someone like your opponent Jeb Bush who says, "I have a policy team, a staff." He doesn't have one.

TRUMP: He says he does, OK? Look, he can say -- he is a very low energy person Jeb Bush. He's got very low energy which is OK. It's good. If you want a little, you know, live a long life but he is a low energy person. Perhaps he should stand all day long with a particular general. But, you know, what I can get a lot of information in a very short time.

Now, I've met with numerous people. I was given the biggest award by the marines the other day. It's just about one of the biggest civilian awards by the marines the other day. I was with all of the marines. I was with the head of the Joint, the new head of the Joint Chief of Staffs. He's a very impressive guy at the Waldorf, Missouri the other nigh. I was given, you know, one of their most distinguished awards which is a great honor for me.

CUOMO: So you're saying they respect you?

TRUMP: So I need -- I think they do. I mean I think, well, I got the award from them and they presented it to me so I think they do. But when I say that, a lot of people thought I was very smart, you know, I watched all of the shows, you get the best people, you know, because even the generals want to be on television, right or their retired generals in many cases but I see a lot of good things by watching your show and other shows. And it's really nothing that we left that or scoff that...

CUOMO: And if you took it for the next level then you'd have your own policy advisors.

TRUMP: Sure, and you know what I do is when I watched without naming names but when I watched your different shows and you show a particular you're very in to this but when I watched the different shows, there were certain people that I really think are terrific that I can do better by watching and seeing and reading in the times. And then I know who I maybe want to speak to more so because you're not going to meet with 400 different people.

So I do learn a lot by watching and I do learn a lot by reading the various newspapers and magazines and everything else and I really find it to be a fascinating subject.

CUOMO: Today?

TRUMP: And some people agree with me on ISIS. Many of them agree with me on ISIS.

CUOMO: Probably reflected in the poll. Today, what do you think your chances of becoming president of the United States? TRUMP: Well, I never liked to talk about chances. I mean I'm doing really what I'm leading every poll. Your polls have been very, very strong. Fox just came out a couple of days ago. It was very similar to your poll leading everything.

I was most happy with your poll because my daughter Ivanka came up to me and my wife came up to me, Melania, and she knows how passionate I am about women protecting women and taking care of -- I cherish women and I -- that's so important.

And when I watched Jeb Bush a week ago not wanting to fund the women's health issues and he wanted to not fund them, he said, "Well, I don't think we need to spend $500 billion. I don't think they need like..." Well, I thought it was terrible. Now, I watched him...

CUOMO: He says he only meant planned parenting.

TRUMP: ... well, I watched him make the statement and then he went back and he was, you know, re-round up by his pollsters and they said, "By the way, you made a mistake." So then he said, "He misspoke" and, but you know, how do you misspeak about something like that.

And my wife came up to me, my daughter Ivanka who you know came up to me and they said, you know, that one thing you should do is talk a little bit about women's health issues because you're so good on it. You know about it and you cherish women. You want to protect women. And protect them in more than one ways that way I'll protect them militarily too because we are such a target.

[21:30:00] This country is such a target because we're considered to be weak. We're a weak country. We're considered to be weak now and I will protect women more than anybody.

CUOMO: You don't think we are considered the strongest country in world militarily?

TRUMP: I think we are considered to be a country in decline -- serious decline. You look at our education, we're number 25 in the world and we spend far more than anybody else per student.

CUOMO: Would you let women fight in the military, in a rangers and all the elite troops?

TRUMP: Yeah, I guess the answer is yes because they are really into it and some of them are really, really good.

CUOMO: You just said, to graduate from the ranger school?

TRUMP: Yeah, I would also speak to the generals because I would want to hear that without a political bent. I want to hear the truth. I mean, you know, to the public they say, "Yes, yes, yes," but I would want to hear without a political bent. But I tell you what, I know some women that are just -- Ronda Rousey is an example who likes me said...

CUOMO: Lucky for you. TRUMP: ... I'd take care -- hey, I'd take care at my side as fighter. So the answer is yes. I would also want to speak however to the military.

CUOMO: So you come on last week and you say, "I don't have to talk about what I do with women. I can show what I do with women. We hire them. We put them in positions of excellence and we pay them all from better than a male counter parts if they are work warranted."

TRUMP: Better.

CUOMO: So your office then comes, they provide us what they call their proof of performance, hear the jobs it happens, it's a private company. We don't want to out the people, you'll say if I want to come in there?

TRUMP: Although, they would be willing to do it.

CUOMO: That's right. I'll sign an NDA, a nondisclosure bill. So that goes out, you issue the challenge to other candidates, the media kind of dismisses it?

TRUMP: Yeah.

CUOMO: What's your take on that?

TRUMP: Well, for the most part the other candidates never hired anybody. I have thousands of people that work me. I've had tens of thousands of people. I've created tens of thousands of jobs that mean I pave for education for all these people. I pay for health care far better than in Obamacare, I mean paid for really great, I think great care of my people and, you know, I have a great couple issue probably notice when I did filing.

So I'm very proud of my company. The problem with the other candidates, you know, they might have nobody working for them. They don't have people working for them. They've never created a job before. That's all -- I'm a job producing machine.


CUOMO: And that's a big part of the sell to U.S. to why he should be your next president. Now we have asked candidates who are running against him and on a Democratic side to provide similar information and we are waiting on most of it.

Now, a couple of small fact things, Trump's claim of getting an world from the marines, now what they say according of them quote "The U.S. Marine Corps has not presented any awards, any presidential candidate this year, it's not customary for the Marine Corps to make such presentation" so I explain it why.

The award came from the Marine Corps Law Enforcement Foundation, maybe it's a charity but it's not really affiliated with the marines or and is of Ronda Rousey. She tells CNN I'm not going to vote for Trump, I wouldn't trust the guy with running my country. Now, Donald Trump doesn't play. That's what's been said to us about it. Even when it comes to the pope, he has a message for our El Papa when he comes to the U.S. next month about his criticism of capitalism.

Stay tune for our conversation about his family including his immigrant wife why she would get to stay under Trump's immigration proposal.



CUOMO: It has long been the law of the land that if you are born inside the United States you are an American citizen no matter where your parents came from, no matter how they got here.

The biggest controversy set off by Donald Trump this week is, his plan to say no more, just being born here is not enough to be a citizen. Now, that's an idea that has a little basis in law because a lot of people riled up.

So let's test his reasons and also talk about one man who may not like this idea very much, the Pope.


CUOMO: Immigration.

TRUMP: Right.

CUOMO: Your people in the GOP worried that you are going to alienate excuse the pun, the Hispanic population when you have 28 million.

TRUMP: Because I have to do the right thing.

CUOMO: We have 28 million voters...

TRUMP: You're right.

CUOMO: ...pulling the birthright exception that maybe constitutionally dubious, you shouldn't be taking such an extreme position what do you say?

TRUMP: I have to do the right thing. It's the time, you know, this country is so politically correct, nobody wants to take a stance on anything. I was the one that brought up and I took a lot of heat, you it gave it to me too. I mean you were one of the leaders that first week and week and a half after I made the announcements and a lot of people including yourselves, they were not reading at the way I said it and that is now fact.

And I've been actually completed by some of the people that because I brought up the whole thing of illegal in immigration, I'll bet you wouldn't be asking this question right now, had I not put that in my opening statement as a very important thing. CUOMO: You definitely change the nature of the dialogue, I'll give you that and I certainly never. We try to take here out of context, to try to take at your words and put it in context.

TRUMP: I know, what I'm saying many people did...

CUOMO: Are you say -- would you then go...

TRUMP: At some point all we have to -- look at some point we have to be honest with ourselves. It's cause, you know, they now they like to use the word undocumented because it's more political. I don't use that word. Here, illegal immigrants, they came over illegally. Some are wonderful people and they have been here for a while they got to go out.

CUOMO: But how you do it in a practical way? You really think you go around the and eliminate people?

TRUMP: Well, you know what? At some point we're going to try getting a back -- the good ones. We have a lot good ones here, same time...

CUOMO: You're sending a mixed message though Mr. Trump because you say you're going to get rid the whole families but then you say you want to back...

TRUMP: You're going to do it, they're illegal. We have a country. We have to have a border. We have to build a wall. Mexico will pay for the wall. I got to kick out this guys that never negotiated, they can't negotiate for their own house.

CUOMO: Assuming that they're going to pay for $4 billion wall and you give them like $280 million a year. Why would you say yes?

TRUMP: You know what, because they make a fortune with us. Our companies are moving into Mexico more than almost any other place right now. We are losing our industry. We're losing our business to Mexico.

They are leaders as smart as hell, I mean 300,000 I look that in your show. 300,000 births this year illegals in our country, that means we picked up 300,000 people that are going to get Social Security. U.S. people on the border and in one day they walk over and have a baby and now all of the sudden we're supposed to pay the baby?

CUOMO: So the citizenship for those babies, you would revoke it, now in retroactively?

TRUMP: Number one the 14th amendment is very questionable as to whether or not somebody can come over and have a baby and immediately that baby is a citizen.

CUOMO: I know. The court has pretty much said and agreed that immigrants here, this isn't a minority legal opinion you are talking about.

[21:40:02] TRUMP: Chris, there are many people that totally feel that...

CUOMO: They may have want it that way.

TRUMP: ... amending is too big of deal it's going to be take -- it will be two terms, I'd be in my second term on my 8th year by the time assuming everything went smoothly because to amend the constitution...

CUOMO: Takes a long time.

TRUMP: ... I believe...

CUOMO: Especially on a very divisive issue.

TRUMP: ... I believe you can win it legally OK? I believe you can win it legally. And in any event the parents have to leave, if the parents leave unless they are very bad people they got to take it their baby.

CUOMO: 75 percent of the country feels that you should be trying to find the way to let people stay with conditions as supposed to kicking everybody else.

TRUMP: This people, the really good ones and we have some great ones, what they are trying expedite so they can come back but they going to come back legally. Let me tell you, when you look at Baltimore, when you look at Chicago, when you look at the crime that's going on, you have some of this people are illegal immigrants, I mean they're illegal they keep coming to the country, they're gang members, they're the toughest of the group they're tough...

CUOMO: So bad but, you know, most of them came here...

TRUMP: ... don't came here I get them out...

CUOMO: ... to fight for their dream.

TRUMP: ... before I started building the wall and I will start building that wall soon. I will get them up, the first thing I'm doing is getting the bad ones out and they are gone and they're not coming back either. I'm going to increase the hell out of the border in terms of the guards and the border patrol I got them all a lot of them when I went to the border recently and their fantastic. They want to be able to do their job. They're stopped from doing their job, before I even start the wall and I will start the wall very quickly.

You know, one of the things that holding up the wall, environmental impact statements, can you believe this, environmental impact system.

CUOMO: I think it's going to be low in the list.

TRUMP: If -- but that's one on the things I can't environmental permits, can you believe this OK, believe me that's will I do as I get permits.

CUOMO: What about going after the employers, now this isn't a cheap thing to come at you and say you are one of them?

TRUMP: That's true.

CUOMO: But you have this employers...

TRUMP: Well, you know, what have they check all my buildings and so far with all of the jobs I have Washington, everyone nobody's found one...

CUOMO: Well, good for you.

TRUMP: Are you impressed?

CUOMO: Good for you, I was impressed the moment you sat down. What I'm saying is you have this employers the agro-companies, the other big manufactures, they take him because its cheap labor, and they get away with it all the time you never hear about a big case of them getting busted unless...

TRUMP: Yeah.

CUOMO: ... you know, something happens and it goes away, why does anybody make amendment part of the solution?

TRUMP: First of all we do have people that can do those jobs and their unemployed now in this country, second of all those good people that have been working with U.S., I wanted to come back in, I wanted him to go out but I want him to come back in legally, so they can come back and they can work for those companies, I do want them to come back...

CUOMO: But do you go after the employers and do it on wrong way?

TRUMP: ... well one way you find out who they are is through the employers, absolutely.

CUOMO: All right. So let me ask you about the pope, the pope's coming, do you want to meet him?

TRUMP: Well I'm Protestant, but I have great respect for the pope, I like the pope I actually like him his becoming very political there's not question about it, but I like him he seems like a pretty good guy.

CUOMO: So here's the moment you meet the pope, Pope Francis comes.

TRUMP: Right.

CUOMO: There's a translator there...

TRUMP: Right.

CUOMO: ... and he says Mr. Trump this is very nice then he says, you know, I want to tell him something the translator says to you, the pope believes that capitalism can be a real avenue to greed, it can be really toxic and corrupt and he's shaking his finger you and he says, what do you say in response to the pope? TRUMP: I'd say ISIS wants to get you. You know, that ISIS wants to go in and take over the Vatican, you have heard that, you know, that's a dream of theirs to go into Italy...

CUOMO: He talks to you about capitalism...

TRUMP: ... you do know that...

CUOMO: ... you scare the pope.

TRUMP: ... I -- I no, no I do not have to scare the pope because it's, you know, they there's only one, look the pope -- I hope can only be scared by God...

CUOMO: Is the (inaudible) over here?

TRUMP: ... I hope can only be scared by God, but the truth is, you know, if you look at what's going on, they better hope the capitalism works, because its the only thing we have right now and it's a great thing when it works properly. In our country, Chris, it has not been working properly.

CUOMO: The capitalism hasn't?

TRUMP: It has not been working properly.

CUOMO: Do take him serious when he says...

TRUMP: Between -- excuse me. Between regulation, between all of the Dodd-Frank between all of the different things that have been imposed, we are uncompetitive like we used to be, we have to open up our country to great capitalism. No, I don't think the pope is opposed to capitalism by the way, I've seen a lot of what he supposed to and I don't think the pope is opposed to capitalism.


CUOMO: And if he is, Donald Trump will tell him, "ISIS is coming for you." Next Donald Trump the family man, how much did his wife and his kids want or not want him to make this run and he's potential first lady would be the first one ever born outside the U.S., where's she's been -- where she been by the way.

And is her absence a sign that the immigrant doesn't agree with her husband's hard line stance, ahead.



CUOMO: As you see all the time, politics is hard on the candidate but, you know what? It's often even harder for the loved ones. Is Donald Trump Worried about his family? And where's his wife been? Here's his answers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) CUOMO: The family, your kids do great, everybody says you raise them

well. They're making their own paths. Have thought about what it will mean for your kids because, you know, it's a lot of -- even being Trump's is something.

TRUMP: Well, for my family general and I mean...

CUOMO: But do you think about, "Man, this is going to be a lot on them."

TRUMP: It's a tough -- I sat down with them, I told them I said, "You know, I don't know this is months ago, and, you know...

CUOMO: But now you're in a very good for place.

TRUMP: ... my -- and my wife said something very interesting, she's my pollster, OK. She said, "You know, if you actually announce you're going to win, I said what? She said I see the reaction...

CUOMO: And the support of partner by the way.

TRUMP: ... no, no its great. She's either the most wonderful person or she's very smart to say that, but she said, "You know that if you actually announce because nobody thinks you're going to run, but if you act -- and that's truly what happen once I announce, people said -- then they said when will he file this paper and then that paper, then will he file his financial and then the financial turn up to be much to be much bigger than anyone thought, you know, I wouldn't file the financial, I will -- I'm very proud I mean what I did I build an unbelievable company.

But she's said to me, "Do you know that if you actually announce, you know, your going to win?" I said, "I don't know that," but the response has been pretty amazing.

CUOMO: But what do you -- do you think about that to like -- you said your wife is she going to campaign for you, is she...


CUOMO: ... ready to be first lady?

TRUMP: Sure.

CUOMO: She's been quiet on this so far...

TRUMP: She has been and purposely and, and, you know, I haven't asked her to do anything and she would certainly like to -- Ivanka, you know, very well a lot of respect for you...

CUOMO: Ivanka should be president.

TRUMP: ... she's got a lot -- she could be president and she be great. She got a lot of respect to you, she had a lot of respect to your brother, tremendous respect to your brother...


CUOMO: So of course her judgments unquestionable. She's half right on that.

TRUMP: ... I think the (inaudible), now I'm starting to worry about her. She will be fantastic...

CUOMO: Well, you think you'll put Melania out there, you put your kids out there?

TRUMP: ...boys will campaign. They want to be out there. They believe in what I'm saying, and I will say, from women's health issues standpoint, Melania is unbelievable.

CUOMO: She would want to own something like that?

TRUMP: And Ivanka. I think she want to be involved and that she feels very strongly, very fit. That's why when she saw Bush the other day knocking it, it really bothered her that could happen.

CUOMO: One of the time about her when you married her, everybody says the marriage is great, your testament, you know, one of the marriages seems to be working this days. When you got marriage, she became a citizen, she was work legally?

TRUMP: Right.

TAPPER: She even gets mad at you about how you talk about immigrants and she say, "Hey, I came over here on a visa, now you want to get rid of people's visas?"

TRUMP: She agrees with me, Chris. She went through a long process to become a citizen. It was very tough. And she went to long process to become a citizen of this country. And she thinks it a wonderful process to go through and when she got, she's very proud of it. You know, she came from Europe and she was very, very proud it.

And she thinks it's a beautiful process when it works. Now, we can expedite one of the things I really want to do, I want to take in really talented people too.

You know, in Silicon Valley they can get talent. I mean, no matter what you do, you can get talent. And so, I want to take in people from Europe, from Asia, from all over the world that have talent. If you graduate number one in class from Harvard or the Wharton Schools of Finance or Yale and you're from another country, they throw you out of the country, you can come back in.

I don't want to do that. I want to keep this really talented people, let them go to Silicon Valley, let them go all over the place that's what we need. And I want people to come into the country. But I want to come in legally.

CUOMO: I know, you have a big appearance to get to New Hampshire get to about that problem. Thank you for taking a time, you're always welcome... TRUMP: Thank you very much.

CUOMO: ... to be talking about what matters.

TRUMP: Great honor, thank you.


CUOMO: So there you have it. A different look at what Donald Trump does and does not say about the issue that matter to you. So, how they do? Did he help or hurt his calls. CNN tonight with Don Lemon starts right after the break to that on. Hit us on social media hashtag #trumponcnn. And I'll be with Don and some guests to breakdown his sit-down interview and his first townhall, back in the second.



DON LEMON, CNN TONIGHT HOST: This is CNN Tonight. I'm Don Lemon. You heard Donald Trump moments ago wit my colleague Chris Cuomo. After that interview, Trump held his very first townhall in front of a cheering crowd in Derry, New Hampshire. Listen.


TRUMP: We're not going to be so politically correct anymore. We are going to get things done. We are going to make this country special, and you know, I say sometimes that the American dream is dead but we're going to make it bigger and better and stronger than ever before.


LEMON: And here it is Chris is back with me now. So what did you think of that townhall?

CUOMO: It's his first one.

LEMON: Make America great again?

CUOMO: Right, I'm in love with his -- his message is direct its obvious and its known, and it's working with the portion of the GOP. It's also not working with the portion of the GOP and I think that's interesting context with interview we did this morning because he was different than I've seen in the past.

He was more concerned about how we came across what he said and importantly what he did not say. When I said, "Are you going to go retroactive on the anchor babies...

LEMON: Right.

CUOMO: the birth right? He didn't want to answer.

LEMON: Right. Right.

CUOMO: He didn't want to put himself out too far. You know, at the same time its hard for him to resists what got him to this point which is being very strong and very ultimate.

LEMON: You answered my next question but in the conversation that I've been having you were some notice that now his different now. Do you think he feels like, "You know what, maybe I have a chance." And before it was this in all an exercise and say, "OK let's see a part from that." And now he feels, "I really have a chance here."

CUOMO: And also there's different -- there's a -- yes, and I think there is another layer which is when you have no chance, you have nothing to lose and you can put it on everybody else why I am not going to win because Don Lemon doesn't want me to win the media hates me. Now he's the frontrunner. Now he has expectations. Now he has something to lose that puts pressure on you to worry about the outcome in a way he probably didn't before.

LEMON: He is -- he seems to be focused now on Hillary Clinton and Jeb Bush. He is pretty much ignoring the other candidates. Remember he just used to slam them, right? Do you think that he -- that now he says, "You know what? I can just ignore them, the only two people who're important -- Jeb Bush or Hillary Clinton."

CUOMO: I think that yes again and the reason that I think that is the first answer he gave to us in the interview which was I said six points from Hillary. I thought sure that I just hit that up and he just going to whack it out of the part where, "I can't believe I'm not winning," you know, and all the things she'd usually say huge. He didn't.

He said, "Well, I'm not concerned about it yet. I have 16 other people with the field." He didn't even called them losers or anything.

LEMON: Right. He didn't say loser.

CUOMO: He was carrying himself differently.

LEMON: Yeah.

CUOMO: And now, here's the balance. You want to carry yourself like a leader so people don't just think you know, you're strong and wrong...

LEMON: But you still want to be yourself.

CUOMO: ... but you don't want to forgot what (inaudible).

LEMON: That's true. Right.

CUOMO: So he's got a little bit of a trick in front of them.

LEMON: Take a look. This was earlier when he took a swipe at the townhall at Jeb Bush. Take a look. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Have I gotten to Jeb Bush's skin? I don't know I will tell you this you mentioned the word skin. He said the other day one of the dumber things I've heard ever in politics. When talking about the Iraq that we the United States he said have to show them that we have skin in the game in order to go into Iraq. We've lose $2 trillion, thousands of lives, wounded warriors who I love all over the place. And he's talking about we have to show them that we have skin in the game?


LEMON: Interesting. Remember, after McCain, everyone said, "oh my god, he's lost the veterans, he's lost the military." It sounds like he's striking a cord there -- he's striking a nerve with that.

CUOMO: Well, look, he's definitely doing what he thinks work for him which is attacking opponents over. He's problem is that he wants to put troops in Iraq.

LEMON: Right.

CUOMO: And that's going to have a total of blood and treasure. He says he knows it won't cost very much of either but he can't know that. So he's playing it both ways and we'll have to see what happens as he moves forward.

LEMON: Yeah and its interesting to see how he moves forward because as you said it appears to be a different with each interview he becomes unnecessarily more reserved but I guess more -- he looks more like a candidate, more like someone...


CUOMO: Tweaks. Tweaks.

LEMON: Tweaks -- yeah.

CUOMO: He's not a different person...

LEMON: Yeah. Yeah.

CUOMO: ... but, you know, a little different.

LEMON: It is a top of the hour and we're following that the breaking news in Chris Cuomo's interview with Donald Trump this evening.