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CNN Live Saturday

Debate Over Naval Exercises at Vieques Continues

Aired April 28, 2001 - 12:11   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DONNA KELLEY, CNN ANCHOR: Some people in New York plan to rally today for their friends and family in Puerto Rico. Demonstrators are trying to stop the Navy from carrying out bombing exercises on Vieques island. Those exercises continued today.

Yesterday, the Navy lobbed rounds at the island while crowds chanted and waved flags. Several people were arrested after they broke through the gates around the practice area. The Navy says that the bombing drills will end some time next week.

Now joining us on the phone from Naval Station Roosevelt Roads in Puerto Rico is Lieutenant Jeff Gordon. He's the public affairs officer for the U.S. naval forces southern command. Lieutenant Gordon, thanks for talking with us.

LT. JEFF GORDON, U.S. NAVY: Good afternoon.

KELLEY: Give us an idea of what's it like today, the number of protesters if you can just give us an estimate, and if you have had some arrests today?

GORDON: Well, there have been a couple of hundred protesters that have stationed themselves right outside the gates to Camp Garcia. Yesterday, we had couple of incursions, really just near -- away from Puerto Rico police who did absolutely nothing while protesters cut the fence, threw rocks at the security personnel and other things like that. And dozens of the folks came through and were detained, as CNN reported yesterday.

KELLEY: So, is it about the same in the number of protesters today as yesterday?

GORDON: Roughly, that's what I am led to believe. I have got to add that since June 2000 we have had over 500 people detained on Navy property during similar exercises. Now, well over 90 percent of these people are not even Vieqenses. They are not from Vieques, rather from places like mainland Puerto Rico and mainland United States.

The vast majority of the people that have been detain so far have been members of the Puerto Rico Independence Party and they will probably tell you that.

KELLEY: Must be there training on Vieques island, or could these exercises that you do be done someplace else? GORDON: Well, the Vieques is absolutely critical for the Navy. We have the, really, the crown jewel of the training for Atlantic Fleet there. It is out of the path of commercial airline flights that you can have pilots fly combat profiles, like they would in a combat situation. You have deep water very close to Vieques so you can have the aircraft carrier operate with destroyers, cruisers and submarines, do a full range of operations you would do during combat operations.

And in addition, you have ample maneuver space on Vieques itself, which permits marine landings just a few miles to the west of the range. So, at the same time, you have a ship-to-shore shelling, you have aircraft dropping bombs and you have Marines shelling the range.

I have got to tell you that the range in Vieques is about nine miles to the closest civilian area, and we have 33 live fire ranges throughout the United States, the Department of Defense does. And the range in Vieques is actually quite a bit further from any other civilian areas that we have ranges. Like for instance, in Fort Sill, Oklahoma, we've got a range a mile and a half from the civilian population. And Eglin Air Force base, Florida, Fort Walton Beach in the Florida panhandle, there is only about seven miles from the range where the bombs fall, and the population is much greater than in Vieques.

So what you see is a different situation here where there are a lot of things that -- there is a lot more than meets the eye with our training in Vieques, let's put it that way.

KELLEY: I think what you address there are safety issues that some of the folks there are concerned about, but what about the noise pollution? They have got this anti-noise law. Is there anything that can be done on that?

GORDON: Well, the whole issue there is -- the Navy studied the effects of noise for about 25 years, and we are actually convinced that there is no connection whatsoever between Navy operations in Vieques and the health of island residents.

We have had really a number of serious, albeit clearly unsubstantiated allegations against the Navy for the past few years regarding our operations there, and these allegation have ranged from the charges that the Navy has caused a higher cancer rate in mainland Puerto Rico, caused the newly-discovered so-called vibroacoustic disease from shelling exercises, from our exercises that are 10 miles from the civilian population.

KELLEY: And have you looked into that?

GORDON: Yes, the navy has. In fact, Johns Hopkins did a review of it, and did not find any merits to the study whatsoever.

KELLEY: OK, Lieutenant Jeff Gordon, we have to cut you off there. We have some other guests to talk to, but we sure appreciate you coming on with us and the information that you have. Lieutenant Jeff Gordon who is the U.S. Navy PAO with the southern command, thanks very much. And for more information on the issue, we are joined by two guests in our Washington bureau, Annabelle Rodriguez is the secretary of Justice for the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, and Bill Johnson is the legislative director for Utah Congressman James Hansen, who is a senior member of the House Armed Services Committee. Nice to have you both join us. Thanks very much.

Secretary Rodriguez, start with you today. What is the main problem? Is it the safety of folks on the island, or is it the noise?

ANNABELLE RODRIGUEZ, SECRETARY OF JUSTICE, PUERTO RICO: Good morning, Ms. Kelley. It is both, Ms. Kelley. There are serious concerns and serious findings that have come about recently regarding a number of studies which tend to indicate that there are health- related problems, which directly are affected by the level of noise coming from the shelling of Vieques from the ship-to-shore shelling.

Precisely that was one of the findings made by Judge Kessler in her decision. She specifically stated that she was very troubled by the disturbing evidence of health problems among our children as young as 7-year-old children who have a carotid artery a lot thicker than they should have.

KELLEY: Secretary Rodriguez, did you hear Lieutenant Gordon who was just on with us, and he said that they have looked into some of those health issues, and a John Hopkins report that said that they didn't show that?

RODRIGUEZ: Well, I heard what Mr. Gordon said. I have to say, however, that what Johns Hopkins saw was a summary of the report that is being overlooked right now by HHS, the Human Health Service Department. The report that was rendered by Johns Hopkins never looked at the underlying data, so that has never been assessed by them.

KELLEY: Mr. Johnson, what about that? Are people in danger on the island there? Are they healthy?

WILLIAM JOHNSON, LEGISLATIVE DIRECTOR: No, they are not. Maybe the security guards are in danger today, because of the protesters, but the health claims that we have talked about and the noise, as your reporter has reported the last day, he can see the training but he can't even hear it because he is 10 miles away from the live impact area, and the ships are another five to 10 miles away when they are firing.

So, there are no less than five health studies, federally-funded health studies going on right now, and your Navy guest was correct that the initial one from Johns Hopkins found not only is this so- called vibroacoustic disease not a recognized medical condition, but that in any case the noise generated by the Navy could not possibly be causing the abnormalities.

The bottom line is, the training that's done down there saves lives. This training is the final exam for our troops before we send them into combat. And we have an obligation... (CROSSTALK)

KELLEY: ... in fact, isn't it?

JOHNSON: ... for the Navy and Marine Corps team in particular, and we as a country have an obligation, all the men and women who serve in uniform, including many brave Puerto Rican Americans who wear the uniform too, we have an obligation to them to make sure they have the best training available before we put them in harm's way. That what Vieques is. We take the health claims seriously. We are studying them, but there has been zero evidence so far that any of the action are contributing in any way to health problems on the island.

KELLEY: Mr. Johnson, does it have to be Vieques? Could it be anyplace else? Could this training be accomplished somewhere else? And I asked Lieutenant Gordon that as well, you may have heard.

JOHNSON: Well, the answer is no right now. We have conducted -- Congress, the Navy, the Pentagon has conducted a series of high-level blue ribbon panel studies in the last few years that have looked for options. And right now, there is no other option.

Now, they continue to study that, there may be an option in the future. The Department of Defense has agreed to minimize activity on Vieques, but for right now this is the only place where we can bring that final exam for the military together, where the troops get to do everything that they would need to do in combat at the same time, and I think we owe them that training. We do not want to conduct our final exam training after the enemy begins to shoot. That's just not fair to the people in uniform.

KELLEY: Secretary Rodriguez, there is $40 million that could be available in economic assistance, but the secretary of Defense has to OK that to make sure that the range is open, and that these training exercises are going on. How important could that be for the island and for those folks, and is there a compromise possible that could be worked out, or do you want those exercises off the island completely?

RODRIGUEZ: Well, let me tell you the following: our governor, Governor Sila Calderon, has stated all along that we think that this matter is of such importance to both countries, to the United States and Puerto Rico, that we are open to dialogue all the time. We have been so in the past, in the present, and of course in the future.

However, we must comply with what the Puerto Rico law states. And in regards to your question about the $40 million, let me state that people of Puerto Rico take their democratic exercises of voting very seriously, and we are not for sale.

KELLEY: Well, the Navy says that it will suspend the bombing and shelling for one day tomorrow, out of deference to services that they're having in Rome, honoring a Puerto Rican activist on track for sainthood.

Annabelle Rodriguez, who is the secretary of Justice for the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico and William Johnson, who is the legislative director for Congressman James Hansen, who is a Republican of Utah, we are so glad that both of you could come on to talk with us. Thanks.

RODRIGUEZ: Thank you.

JOHNSON: Thank you, Donna.

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