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CNN Live Saturday

FBI Under the Gun After Mistakes in McVeigh Case

Aired May 19, 2001 - 17:12   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN ANCHOR: The nation's top law enforcement agency has been under intense scrutiny recently for mistakes in the Oklahoma City bombing case to security lapse. This week, FBI Director Louis Freeh dodged bullets from Congress. He testified before Senate about missing papers in the Oklahoma City bombing case which led to a delay of the execution of Timothy McVeigh. He was chided over his leadership of the agency.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LOUIS FREEH, FBI DIRECTOR: That's a cultural defect which I will attempt to address by the stand-down that we are going to do, by all of the different training protocols and efforts and interests that I can bring to bear on this problem.

SEN. ERNEST HOLLINGS (D), SOUTH CAROLINA: Don't hire anybody, fire some people. Make them accountable. They'll know, they'll understand and until you do that, they will play the game. When they ignore 11 separate communications from the director, back in '96 and you still haven't -- to say the only way I can catch you is to make you under oath sign a statement that have you sent in, that's pretty poor administration. Get rid of some heads overall where they didn't respond to these communications appropriately.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAVIDGE: For more insight into the FBI's problems, we're joined by Elaine Shannon. Elaine is the criminal justice correspondent for "Time" magazine's. She joins us now from Washington this evening.

Elaine, thanks very much for being with us.

ELAINE SHANNON, CRIMINAL JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT, "TIME" MAGAZINE: Hi, thanks for asking me.

SAVIDGE: Director Freeh was on Capitol Hill a couple of trips last week, some of them behind closed doors and others in open session, as we saw there. For the most part, though, the questions rather gentle. He wasn't really lambasted for what has gone on in the last few weeks.

SHANNON: That's true. Nonetheless, the clip you just showed where he talking about the culture of the FBI, that has just rocketed all around the FBI because, of course, he's been there for eight years, so who put the middle managers and the field commanders there; it was him. These are all people that he picked.

Secondly, all those communications that he sent into the field he said people didn't fully respond to, we haven't seen exactly what they have said. So when three-quarters to four-fifths of the FBI doesn't respond correctly, you also have to ask, well, what were their orders?

SAVIDGE: We talk about the withholding of the evidence in the McVeigh case, there were about 3,100 documents out of several million, that should be pointed out. Is this really a blunder? Is this something done on purpose, as many Americans seem to think, and what is the damage that it does to the image of the FBI?

SHANNON: We haven't seen the documents, so we don't know if there's if there's some bombshell in there. For instance, the conspiracy theories believe that John Doe II is a real person and is the real bomber and the FBI got married to the Tim McVeigh's sole bomber with the help of Terry Nichols, and so didn't want to admit that there was a larger conspiracy.

So, I would like to see evidence of that, but -- it'd be a great story. But I don't think that all of these people are lying because we'll find out the defense has all of those documents. So, I tend to think it's just a big blunder. They just couldn't handle all of the paper.

SAVIDGE: Next week, we are expecting the arraignment of accused spy Robert Hanssen. This has been overshadowed somewhat recently by the McVeigh case, but what is the damage that he has done?

SHANNON: It's far worse than we knew when he was arrested. If you look at the indictment that was issued this week, they talk not only about betrayals of various FBI and CIA spy-counterspy things, but also early warning plans that U.S. government has, the U.S. Defense Department's ability to retaliate against a nuclear strike or defend against it, our ability to carry on government in the midst a nuclear holocaust; these are all national security issues.

Also, he told the Soviets that our National Security Agency was able to get into their military communications satellites because they had a defect, and obviously they were probably able to fix that defect so that stopped our ability to stop eavesdrop on their military communications, which is extremely serious and that's what carries the death penalty.

SAVIDGE: We haven't got a lot of time, but the death penalty issue here is somewhat controversial. Some in the Justice Department would like to see it, others would not. Why?

SHANNON: Well, and as our story points out, George Tenet, the head of the CIA, also asked Ashcroft not to go hard on this because he wants to keep Hanssen alive for years to ask him more questions if things come up. Also, they want cooperation from Hanssen, and that will stop if they go to trial.

SAVIDGE: Elaine Shannon, criminal correspondent -- criminal justice correspondent for "Time" magazine, thanks very much for coming in on a Saturday.

SHANNON: Thank you.

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