Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Live Saturday

America's New War: Former Secretary of State Discusses U.S. Military Options

Aired September 15, 2001 - 18:19   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Powerful words are being used today, talk of war, international cooperation, calling up the military reserves. Someone who knows about using those words is the former Secretary of State Lawrence Eagleburger, and he joins us now. Mr. Secretary, thank you so much. You were a key State Department official during the Gulf War some 10 years ago.

Tell our viewers what is going to be the major difference between this anticipated upcoming war and the war that all of us remember, the Gulf War.

LAWRENCE EAGLEBURGER, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: The differences are significant, Wolf. The first of which is we clearly knew who our enemy was in the Iraq situation. What I think everyone needs to understand -- and General Clark certainly talked about this -- is that this time around we have a lot of enemies, we know some of them, we will find out more of them. They have an interlocking network, there's no question about that, and it's going to be much tougher to get at them and it's going to be a much -- therefore, a much more complicated and long-term effort.

The Iraq war was over in six weeks, whatever it was. That will not be the case this time. This is going to take some years to accomplish, and you have to hope and pray that the president can lead us all for that period of time and keep the support up.

BLITZER: If the president concludes that Osama bin Laden was, in fact, responsible and he continues to receive protection from the Taliban regime in Afghanistan, does that necessarily mean the U.S. should engage in a land invasion of Afghanistan?

EAGLEBURGER: I think that would be under most circumstances the last thing we would want to do. Putting land forces into some place like Afghanistan -- in the first place, we saw how successful the Soviet Union was. If you get all of the Afghanis opposed to you, it can be a very unpleasant circumstances.

I would think that with our technology, if we know where he is, and that's the first question, I should think we could get at him and at the Taliban without having to put troops on the ground.

BLITZER: But you well know there are so many places to hide in Afghanistan -- caves, all sorts of location within the mountainous terrain there. It would be almost impossible without putting people on the ground to find him, a lot of experts say that.

EAGLEBURGER: Well, they can say that if they want, and I don't claim to be an expert. On the other hand, Wolf, how many people are you going to put on the ground in Afghanistan to find him? It would take, it would seem to me thousands, and you would be running around in an area we know very little about.

I'm not saying that in the end we might not have to do something like that, but I think there are all sorts of alternatives that have to be examined first. And by the way, let's make it very clear that while Osama bin Laden is the immediate source of our agony, he is by no means the only problem we face. And if we got him tomorrow morning, he has a whole host of lieutenants and an organization that would carry on. So, let's not get mesmerized by Osama bin Laden, despite the fact that we have to get him at some point.

It doesn't mean we necessarily have to start there. It does mean we have to recognize we have a web of terrorist organizations, all of whom mean us evil. And we're going to have to deal with all of that. It may take some time to organize our intelligence enough to know exactly what we're dealing with here. But if we -- if we think that the -- this has to begin with an attack on Osama bin Laden, I think we are making a mistake.

That isn't to say he shouldn't be public enemy number one, at least for the moment, but it is so say that this is much more complicated effort than simply getting him. And to put troops in Afghanistan to accomplish this effort of getting bin Laden may be a real mistake.

BLITZER: What else can the United States do with its allies against other states that may be cooperating with terrorists, maybe providing support, financial support, or providing them what is called harbor? What else can the United States do against these states that the U.S. is already not doing?

EAGLEBURGER: Well, I think there's a lot there. Again, Wolf, it depends on the particular country. First of all...

BLITZER: Let me give you one example. For example, Iraq, what else could the U.S. be doing as far as Iraq is concerned?

EAGLEBURGER: Oh, I think -- that's the easiest one for me, because in this case we could certainly escalate -- we'd have to get the troops into the area and so forth, but we could certainly escalate what we have been doing to them when they misbehaved as it is. And in fact, I think we've gone far too long without, in fact, cracking them across the jowls because of the things he has done. Iraq is almost the easiest one, for me at least to contemplate, because there you almost immediately go into the use of military force.

The rest of the countries involved are much more complicated, if you will. First of all, the question has to be which country, how vulnerable is it to attack? But more importantly than that, what are the other sources of pressure that we may have available to us? And one of the things with regard to all of these terrorist organizations and the countries involved is we have to start by following the money. Where is the money coming from? Where is it going, where is it hidden? Is it in Swiss banks? And so forth.

The other thing I would say to you, and a lot of people are going to object to this, but I think we need to get into intimate discussions with the Israelis on the whole host of these questions. We talk to them a lot now, but I really think they can offer us some real advice on intelligence matters that would be -- where we would be more intimately involved. They are a lot of experience in this whole area.

I know there has been a reaction on the part of some Americans who say, well, we have been too close to the Israelis, and that's what caused all of this. I think that's nonsense. But I do think the Israelis, in getting together with us and talking about this experience and how to deal with it, we might learn some very valuable things from it.

BLITZER: Well, since you raised the issue of the Israelis, during the Gulf War -- correct me if I am wrong -- you and Paul Wolfowitz who is now the deputy defense secretary, went to Israel to restrain the Israelis, to prevent them from responding militarily to those SCUD missiles being launched by the Iraqis. Looking back on that, was that a mistake?

EAGLEBURGER: No. In the first place, Wolf, it's one of the areas where -- the one of the few areas where I can (UNINTELLIGIBLE) some diplomatic success in my life time. Now, don't knock it, but the basic point here is the effort in the Iraq case was to form a coalition of governments, particularly including a number of governments in the area, Middle Eastern governments, to deal with Iraq. And we did that. And if the Israelis had become a direct part of this, it would have been made it much more difficult to build that coalition.

Secondly, and I think equally important, and now I think Israelis would accept the fact, many would at least, we -- by asking them to stay on the sidelines, we did a job for them that cost them nothing in the way of the lives of the Israeli military. So no, I don't think it was a mistake then at all. I do think this is a different situation.

BLITZER: Mr. Secretary, what about the existing U.S. policy barring assassinations? Is it time if rethink that policy?

EAGLEBURGER: I have argued for some years -- to show you how awfully bloodthirsty I am -- I have argued for some years that that executive order issued during President Ford's term should have been terminated long before this, and certainly should be now.

BLITZER: Lawrence Eagleburger speaking bluntly, as he always does. Thanks for joining us.

EAGLEBURGER: My pleasure.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com