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CNN Live Saturday

Afghan Refugees Try to Cross Over Into Pakistan

Aired October 20, 2001 - 15:48   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CATHERINE CALLAWAY, CNN ANCHOR: As U.S.-led forces continue bombing Taliban's strongholds in Afghanistan, thousands of refugees are trying to make their way into neighboring Pakistan. But as the number of refugees grows humanitarian officials wonder if the refugees will be any better off on the other side of the border. CNN's Amanda Kibel has more for us via video phone from the border crossing at Shaman.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AMANDA KIBEL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on camera): The situation at this border is an ever-changing one. Right now, the border remains sealed. What they are doing however is the army are allowing people through who have Pakistani visas, Pakistani identity cards. The majority of these people are men and young boys, many of them have gone into Afghanistan either to work or to sell their product or pick up products which they will then sell in Pakistan.

The trade between the two counties continues, though the government says that the border remains officially closed. However, earlier today when we arrived, there was a steady stream of refugees crossing the border, mainly women and children, most of them have come from Kandahar, which is about 60 kilometers or about two-and-a-half drive from this border point. They told us that they had come to Pakistan because the bombing continues in Kandahar. They told us that last night they had a particularly intense bombing, and they are very afraid and they decided therefore to leave.

The United Nations High Commission for Refugees says that it estimates that some 3,500 refugees crossed over here yesterday. Now, the government here says border is closed, and as far as they are concerned no refugees are entering. But there are clearly refugees coming into Pakistan right now, and UNHCR also estimates some 10,000 refugees who are waiting to cross are in Afghanistan on the border waiting to come in. And as far as UNHCR is concerned, they are not ready for a large influx of refugees. They have no camps ready to receive new refugees, they have no water supplies, they have no infrastructure set up ready to keep these refugees.

As a result, most of those who have crossed over go into villages or towns, they blend in with the society, they stay with families. And that's a critical situation for them, because at that point they have no access whatsoever to the aid agencies. They are not receiving food, they are not receiving water, and effectively they are really not very much better off than what they were in Afghanistan. They may perhaps be safer here right now, but in terms of their humanitarian needs, they are not being attended to at all.

The UNHCR says it would like to have one or two camps up at least -- up and running by the end of this month. They have identified two sites which may be usable, but at this point in time they have no reception camps for these people. They estimate that people will continue to cross the border, even though the government says that it remains closed.

We spoke to one local official on the ground here. He told us the reason that they have had resealed the border today was that they feared that they may have a huge rush of up to 20,000 refugees trying to get into Pakistan.

I'm Amanda Kibel.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: That was the view from the border; let's go now inside the country. The U.N. World Food Program has been feeding Afghans for more than 20 years now. But that task becoming increasingly difficult with few trucks available to take supplies into rural areas. Also, the Taliban, it is reported, is blocking some of the few shipments that make it into the country. Abby Spring is the spokesperson for the World Food Program, live with us in New York. Abby, hello to you.

ABBY SPRING, U.N. WORLD FOOD PROGRAM: Hi.

HEMMER: First things first. Some workers who crossed over into Pakistan earlier this week told some of our crew on the ground there in Pakistan that there was plenty of food in the capital city of Kabul. Does that synchronize with what you are hearing right now?

SPRING: Well, I mean, the World Food Program has about 5,000 tons of food in our warehouse. And it is true that over the past several days we have been able to provide food to about 350,000 beneficiaries in the Kabul area, so there should be enough food for the month there.

HEMMER: So, you are saying that problem, though, is in different parts of the country -- not the capital city, but rather the central highlands. Tell us why this area is so precarious right now?

SPRING: Sure. Well, the central highlands is a mountainous region, where about 100,000 families live. Those families are completely surviving off of the aid of the World Food Program and especially through the winter months. Most parts of Afghanistan are actually accessible by truck even in the winter months. This area, you cannot move a truck up the mountains. It's very icy. There is heavy snow. And in fact, we are looking at the possibility of conducting air drops.

HEMMER: When would they take place, Abby?

SPRING: Most likely mid-November, which is pretty much when the roads get blocked.

HEMMER: Back in Kabul, I understand a warehouse that had been seized by the Taliban is now back in your control. What do you know about the food supply there?

SPRING: Well, first of all, two warehouses were seized by the Taliban a few days back. The Kabul warehouse has about 5,000 tons in it. My understanding is that we now have the warehouse back in our control. We negotiate with the local Taliban authorities in Kabul, and they in fact made it possible for us to regain control of the warehouse. And as I understand it, no food was looted.

HEMMER: What's the second area that you are concerned with?

SPRING: There is still a warehouse in Kandahar with about 1,600 tons of food that the Taliban seized a few days ago, and I do not have any confirmation that we have that back in our control.

HEMMER: Give us a general sense, Abby, how does the Taliban prevent you from doing your job?

SPRING: Well, first, let me say the Food World Program is making use of just about every entry point into the country. So, we are taking massive amounts of food on truck convoy into the urban areas. We then unload that food into our warehouses. It is then that the non-governmental organizations load up that food into smaller trucks and try to take it out into the rural areas.

The obstacles that we are facing since September 12th are couple. One is that the Taliban cut us off virtually from communicating with our Afghan staff in the country. We used to be able to communicate with them via radio phone and e-mail. Today, it is intermittent, so it's one day we can one day we can't. So, of course that hampers our operations. The other problem is just a general shortage of trucks and fuel within the country.

HEMMER: With the going airstrikes, is there any sense of coordination with the U.S. military to get your trucks in?

SPRING: Look, you know, we are not coordinating with the military in terms of providing humanitarian aid, but what we are doing is making sure that our convoys are safe. We have had no reports of our convoys being affected directly by the military campaign.

HEMMER: That's good news, then, isn't it?

SPRING: Yes, it is.

HEMMER: You also say you have trucks waiting in on the borders in Pakistan, Tajikistan, Iran. What's the possibility of those trucks moving forward?

SPRING: We have trucks moving across the borders of those countries just about every day. We are shipping about 24,000 tons thus far since late September when we resumed our trucking capacity. We are hoping to get in another 16,000 tons by -- in next 10 days. But just to put that in broad perspective, about 5,000 tons of food feeds one million people for a week. And we, of course, are trying to feed six million people, and we are up to about two million.

HEMMER: Good luck.

SPRING: Thanks.

HEMMER: There has been a drought there for four years, it is an ongoing battle. Abby Spring, but again, as you mentioned, the important area right now is getting food to the central part of Afghanistan, the most difficult at this point. Thank you.

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