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CNN Live Saturday

Interview With Nazif Shahrany

Aired December 22, 2001 - 17:17   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CATHERINE CALLAWAY, CNN ANCHOR: Today, with a handshake, a new interim government is off and running inside Afghanistan. We are going to go Indiana University professor Nazif Shahrany. He is joining us live to talk about some of the challenges facing this regime.

And it seems to me, sir, that challenge would be an understatement in what this interim government is facing. Is Hamid Karzai the right guy to begin this?

NAZIF SHAHRANY, INDIANA UNIVERSITY: Well, I think he is a very, very good choice. He is a man with a very strong record of involvement in the recent politics in Afghanistan. He comes from the right family and ethnic background. He has a lot of interests in being a national leader, and I think so far he has done a great job, stressing the national needs of the country. He has a good education, and he has a lot of support from within Afghanistan.

That's the important part. But he is also, I think, having the support of the United States and the international community, which he needs, and I'm sure he will make a good use of it.

CALLAWAY: Mr. Shahrany, it seems that the biggest challenge facing Karzai right now, the immediate need would be -- would just be to maintain peace. We have already seen some looting and an increase in crime there that perhaps was not going on when the Taliban was in rule?

SHAHRANY: Well, I think the challenge of maintaining peace and security is going to be the major challenge for this interim authority, or interim government. They do have a lot of people who are willing to disrupt this government. Certainly, the Taliban leadership and rank-and-file for the most part are still out there. The al Qaeda and its leadership is still not accounted for. And they certainly would be interested in disrupting.

And I think the two neighbors, Iran and Pakistan, certainly elements within Pakistani society, particularly the extremist Islamist parties and certain elements of the ISI who are not supporting General Musharraf in his policies would be interested in making use of these elements, the Taliban and the al Qaeda members within Afghanistan to disturb the peace in the country.

So the challenge would be to keep these elements in Pakistan and also within Afghanistan in check, and also I think Iran sometimes has not been all that happy with the developments of international force coming into Afghanistan, and that they could perhaps also cause trouble, and that needs to be also kept in check.

CALLAWAY: Yeah, that's interesting. But Mr. Shahrany, let's go back a minute to the role of Pakistan in all of this. Certainly, we have seen General Musharraf heavily involved in what's been going on in the last couple of months. With the Northern Alliance initially in control when all of this is over, or portions of it, will there not eventually be almost a line in the sand drawn, saying enough help from Pakistan, we can do this on our own?

SHAHRANY: Well, I hope that they will come very soon. I think that the international community, particularly the peacekeeping force, have to be supportive of this government and have to make sure that the two neighbors, Pakistan and Iran, who have been involved in the affairs of the country, to stay out.

And that this government has to assert itself and show its independence eventually to prove its matter really to the people of Afghanistan that this is a national government and that it is interested in the national integrity and independence of the country, and will chart an independent policy for the country, without Pakistani and Irani and other countries' interference.

CALLAWAY: How different after this interim government leaves and the new government comes in, how different will that government be from what we are going to see over the next six months, or will there be a difference?

SHAHRANY: Well, the major challenge I think for this particular interim government with Mr. Karzai is that a lot -- you know, there are these 13 new individuals -- some of them are new and many are obviously the continuation of the Northern Alliance regime.

The major challenge would be to find a new staff for competent ones, that is. Some of these individuals who are now in the cabinet are there because of their particular political affiliation or particular military backing that they may have, or they have support from those four groups who put them forth. That -- this is fine, but some of them are not probably all that competent in running those ministries.

CALLAWAY: Right.

SHAHRANY: So the charge would be to find the kind of technocratic support to run these ministries. You know, during the last 20-something-odd years, particularly the last 10 years, the central government institutions have deteriorated considerably. And some of these ministries are also newly created -- the one for example for reconstruction, the one for urban planning and so forth -- and none of these really exist except on paper.

So the challenge would be to put these ministries actually together so that they can start working to help build those institutions, and also provide services to the country that is in serious need.

CALLAWAY: And with not much of a past to fall back on, will they not need a lot of guidance in how to set the guidelines for the future?

SHAHRANY: Oh, absolutely. I think how, you know, a lot of the task of this particular regime for the next six months is really to chart some kind of an agenda, some kind of rules and regulations for conducting business, and doing it differently from the past. And I think one of the most important things for this government will be is to whether they are going to pursue the old model of strong centralized government where everything will be dictated by them from Kabul, or whether they are going to allow local economies to communities throughout the country, particularly in the provinces, to run their own business.

One of the mandate unfortunately has been to put some kind of independent commission together for civil service, for recruiting civil servants for the country, not only for the center but also for the provinces and for district centers. And I fear that if they insist on doing that, that it will create problems and tensions with those who are already in the provinces running the affairs of their local communities.

And their best bet would be to create not only one independent commission for civil service at the center, but also encourage the provinces to create their own civil service commissions at the provinces and at the district level so that they could find appropriate civil servants from amongst their own communities in their own areas to run their own affairs.

CALLAWAY: A lot of decisions to be made in the future. Mr. Shahrany, before we go, just a very quick answer here. The situation now, Mullah Omar, Osama bin Laden still remaining elusive to authorities, will that matter to the new government? Just a quick answer, please.

SHAHRANY: I think it should matter, of course, that they could pose a threat to this government, and that this government should do its best to help the international security forces who are there and to try to locate them and eliminate them, or at least capture them.

CALLAWAY: Nazif Shahrany, thank you very much for joining us, and for your thoughts this evening.

SHAHRANY: Thank you, Catherine, I appreciate it.

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