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CNN Live Saturday

President Warns War in Afghanistan Enters More Dangerous Phase

Aired January 05, 2002 - 20:15   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: The Taliban no longer control Afghanistan, and coalition forces are cutting into the al Qaeda network. But CIA Agent Mike Spann, and now Sergeant Nathan Chapman are dead, and the president is warning that the war is entering a more dangerous phase.

It's always good to have General Wesley Clark join us with his analysis of what is still ahead. Good evening, general.

GEN. WESLEY CLARK (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Good evening, Carol.

LIN: All right, let's begin with the dangers on the ground. When we talk about the loss of these two men, both associated with Special Ops, are the dangers for Special Ops on the ground different in Afghanistan than say the dangers that peacekeepers or U.N. aid workers might face?

CLARK: Well, they are in the sense that this is still a very unsettled area, and the Special Forces and the CIA folks are out there in the roughest, toughest areas.

They're out there collecting intelligence. The people that they're collecting intelligence against know that they're the adversary. There's probably a reward out to kill Americans in that country. And so, they are exposing themselves to possible hostilities when they go out there. It's a very dangerous environment.

LIN: And it's an environment that we're going to see for quite some time. I mean you're talking about pockets of armed gunmen who are targeting U.S. troops.

CLARK: Carol, that's right and it's going to get worse actually, because whenever you come in as an army and with a group of forces with high technology and you're from a foreign culture as we are in that country, people give you a wide berth at first. You have a real deterrent effect. You have a lot of moral force.

But as the days go on and they're watching and they're seeing, pretty soon this guy's walking around. He's got two legs. He's carrying a weapon. He looks like any other soldier. They're watching to see what kind of reaction there is. They're considering how they might strike, and the risk actually goes up. LIN: Well, that might explain then what President Bush said today, warning Americans that the war is entering a more dangerous phase. How long is this phase likely to last, and what is the end result then?

CLARK: I would think it could last for months, because the Taliban are in there. They've infiltrated back into the population. They're being protected by various members of the population. It's not really a stable country yet, because the warlords still have their weapons, and they still have the tradition of warlord autonomy inside that country.

And so, there will be a lot of power struggles going on. This is an indefinite phase, and we're working to take out the remnants of al Qaeda and to go after the Taliban, so we're going to have to be real patient on this.

LIN: Well, two Taliban leaders now in custody. Let's start with the former ambassador, Taliban ambassador to Pakistan. Why is it that he has been detained?

CLARK: Well, I think he's probably got some critical information that can help us understand the way the Taliban was related to al Qaeda, as well as understanding the Taliban themselves.

You know, he was the mouthpiece for al Qaeda in the early days. He's the one who delivered the messages. He knows the channels of communication. He knows the personalities. He knows the habits, the proclivities, so he's going to be very useful.

LIN: But he's also one who has a pretty strong reputation for being one of the most loyal to the Taliban. How likely is it that he's going to give up this information without a fight?

CLARK: Hard to say. It's -- you know, we'll attempt to persuade him to change his mind, and we'll do it in the way that we always do it. We'll do it not by torture, not by coercion, not by physical intimidation. But we'll do it by reasoning, by showing him a different way. And you know, the Taliban has crashed. That's over. That regime has failed and he's going to have to see that.

LIN: All right. Do you think that he, as well as this other man now in custody, a man who may have run Osama bin Laden's terrorist training camps, do you think either of these two men know where Mullah Omar is, know where Osama bin Laden is?

CLARK: No, I don't think that either one of them know at this precise moment where they are, but they do have information, I'm confident, that is going to help us track them down and get to them because the closer you get to the people that work daily with these two people, the more information you're going to have that's relevant, if they want to share that information with us. And we can work with them and we've got some chance of persuading them to share.

LIN: All right. General, I want to ask you something that has nothing to do with Afghanistan, but this weird incident with this small plane, apparently stolen by this 15-year-old that was flown out of the airport and then crashed into this bank building in Tampa, Florida.

In a situation like that, we know that a Coast Guard helicopter was dispatched to try to stop him. In a situation like this, would this likely be a situation where F-15s would be dispatched as well?

CLARK: I don't know. I think it would depend on the circumstances and also the proximity of the F-15s. But I think it does show one thing, Carol that our private aviation fleet is still -- it's still not fully secured. It's still a matter of some concern.

Now it doesn't carry the wallop if it hits a building obviously, that a fully-loaded jumbo jet does, but it is still a danger and it's one of those areas that I know that our experts will be watching very closely and working with in the weeks ahead.

LIN: Yes, do you have an opinion on what happened today? What do you make of this, a 15-year-old stealing a plane and crashing it into a building, obviously bringing memories back of what happened at the World Trade Center?

CLARK: Well, obviously it was an accident that he took the airplane, clearly an accident that he crashed the plane. But it points out that these aircraft are accessible, and if they're accessible, then they're a potential threat. And so, we're going to have to look at that very carefully.

LIN: All right. Thank you very much, General Wesley Clark, always good to see you.

CLARK: Thank you, Carol.

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