Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Live Saturday

Israel Says They Are Ready to Negotiate

Aired March 16, 2002 - 17:01   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Back to our top story now. Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon says he is willing to talk with Palestinian and U.S. officials tomorrow. But Palestinian authorities say they know nothing about such a meeting. CNN's Michael Holmes has been following this development, and he joins us now from Jerusalem. Good evening, Michael.

MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Fredricka. Yes, that's the best way to characterize this as a development. What has happened today is that the U.S. special envoy Anthony Zinni has met with senior Palestinian officials and then this evening, he met with the Israeli prime minister, Ariel Sharon, his second meeting with the Israeli prime minister.

Now, after that meeting, the Israeli prime minister's office issued a statement saying that tomorrow a three-way meeting would be coordinated, important word that, involving senior echelons of both sides, headed by Ariel Sharon, the Israeli prime minister, on the Israeli side, for the purpose of bringing about a declaration of a cease-fire between the two sides.

Now, this is essentially an expression of willingness by the Israelis to meet, What the key point is, however, is what the Palestinians think. They say at the moment they haven't been told about the meeting. They don't know anything about it, and as such, aren't planning to attend anything.

Now, Israeli government spokesman Dore Gold is on the line with me now. Mr. Gold, thanks for your time. First of all, I have to say that the Palestinians have said all along they are not willing to discuss anything substantive until Israeli troops are withdrawn from the last of the Palestinian-controlled territories. That has not yet occurred. Is that likely to occur, given that you're hoping for a meeting tomorrow?

DORE GOLD, ISRAELI ADVISER: First of all, the government of Israel is interested in reaching a cease-fire and move into the Tenet cease-fire detailed work plan, which will stabilize the situation here. Israel's willing to have a meeting to discuss Palestinian positions on this, and it really depends on the Palestinian side now.

HOLMES: The Palestinian position has been pretty clear in recent days and weeks, and that is that they are happy to talk cease-fire, but not until all Israeli troops are all out of all area, Palestinian- controlled territories. Is that something Israel is willing to do and do quickly, given that you're looking for a meeting tomorrow?

GOLD: Well, Israel will did nothing that risks the security of its citizens. We have faced a wave of terrorism emanating from areas under Yasser Arafat's jurisdiction. Virtually every other day there has been another bombing or shooting attack against Israeli citizens. So that any shift in deployment of Israeli forces is largely dependent on the security situation on the ground. Most importantly, a guarantee by the Palestinians to take responsibility for areas that Israel might eventually vacate.

That's part of the discussions we have to have. But if the Palestinians are unwilling to take responsibility for those areas, then just pulling out from them will create a vacuum.

HOLMES: That is, of course, part of the Tenet plan for creating the atmosphere for a cease-fire, and that Israel taking all necessary measures to prevent attacks on Israel. However, again, the point has to be that Israel has been well aware that the Palestinians have said they will talk but only when those troops are withdrawn. Given that it has been a relatively, and I emphasize relatively, calm period in the last 24 or 48 hours, does that create the climate for the withdrawal of those troops?

GOLD: Well, one of the reasons why there is calm is because Israeli forces have intercepted various attempts to perpetrate acts of terrorism against the state of Israel and against its citizens. The key here is whether the Palestinians are willing to take responsibility, effective responsibility, for areas that Israel may vacate. You just can't have a -- Israel pulling out blindly from areas and hope for the best. We have had too much terrorism up until now.

HOLMES: So do you hold out any real hope that there will be a meeting tomorrow?

GOLD: Well, I think Israel has shown that it's willing to go the extra mile to make a cease-fire work, to reach stability, and to create new hope for Israelis and Palestinians. But it's up to the Palestinians. If they are serious about a cease-fire and they're serious about a meeting, Israel can meet them and come up with new ideas.

But again, it has to be with the perspective of the Palestinians taking specific responsibilities for areas that Israel might vacate, and also a readiness to move into the very difficult but very important Tenet work plan that will stabilize the situation, and terrorism, and create the preconditions for moving to a political process.

HOLMES: All right. Dore Gold, I appreciate your time at this late hour here in Jerusalem. It is just after midnight here.

Fredricka, and, as you heard the Israelis making the offer to meet. However, doing so, knowing that the Palestinians have said for some time that they -- while they want a cease-fire, they are not prepared to meet while Israeli troops remain in those Palestinian- controlled areas as they do in a couple of areas, notably Bethlehem tonight, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: All right. Thanks very much, Michael Holmes.

Our discussions on this are just beginning. Now, we're going to bring in CNN White House correspondent Kelly Wallace to find out just how the administration is reacting now to Israel saying that it has agreed to talks with Palestinians, but the Palestinians are saying they're not necessarily getting an invitation directly from anybody right now -- Kelly.

KELLY WALLACE, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Right. So, Fredricka, no surprise. Not a lot of reaction coming from the administration so far. Officials at the State Department basically saying that General Zinni has met with both sides to discuss a range of issues, including a cease-fire, and that those talks and discussions are ongoing. No other reaction beyond that.

From people here at the White House, two reasons for this. Number one, just as you noted, while the Israelis are saying they are willing to meet, the Palestinians have not yet agreed to such a meeting. Also, officials are not really giving us a play-by-play each day of General Zinni's meetings, and there's a lot of caution, Fredricka, as you understand, a lot of caution, wanting to make sure that officials are not reacting until a meeting is actually set -- Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: And Kelly, what exactly are the signs that administration officials would be looking for before they feel like they can celebrate that indeed some sort of talks are about to begin?

WALLACE: Well, you know, you certainly heard General Zinni talking saying his first of round of talks were, quote, "extremely positive." So clearly, he was hearing some good things from both the Israelis and the Palestinians. Obviously, it would be welcome news if the two sides are meeting and if they do agree to a cease-fire.

Clearly, though, there's a long road beyond that. They want to make sure a cease-fire sticks, they want the two sides, their security teams, to be talking, and they want to pave the way for some talks and future talks to the peace table.

U.S. officials are looking at a couple of things that are significant this week, Fredricka. Number one, the administration really stepping up the pressure on Israel, publicly and even privately, stepping up the pressure on Israel, calling for the Israelis to pull out their troops and tanks from Ramallah. That obviously seemed to go a long way to get the Israelis to move. They are looking at General Zinni's arrival in the region as another big development.

But again, some cautious optimism, you could say, but they're really not going to react until those two sides are together, until some agreements on a cease-fire and then moving beyond that are made -- Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: All right. Thanks very much, Kelly Wallace from the White House this evening.

Now, for some insight about today's developments, we turn now to Donald Sylvan, he is a professor at Ohio State University and an expert on the Middle East. Good evening there.

PROF. DONALD SYLVAN, OHIO STATE UNIVERSITY: Good evening.

WHITFIELD: Well, thanks for joining us. Well, are you in any way willing to classify this as a breakthrough of sorts, to even hear that Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon is willing now to come to the table to talk with Palestinian officials, as well as U.S. envoy Zinni?

SYLVAN: It is certainly a positive movement. It's certainly movement, Fredricka, in the right direction. However, I would stop short of calling it a breakthrough right now.

I think what we're seeing is that General Zinni is trying to bring the parties to the table. There's been a lot of pressure put on the Israelis and on the Palestinians on security issues. And Prime Minister Sharon is attempting to respond by -- respond to the pressure of the United States and the European Union in particular by expressing willingness. He's trying to win the PR battle.

There is a lot of things going on behind the scenes. So it's a positive movement, there's no question, but I don't think it's a breakthrough.

WHITFIELD: This is Zinni's third attempt to try and get these sides talking. He's a Marine, he's a well-respected soldier. Do you suppose he went into discussions with Sharon and with Arafat and other officials, negotiators, as a soldier, or did he go into this as a diplomat?

SYLVAN: He clearly went into it as a diplomat, Fredricka. He is an experienced diplomat. He's actually helped get U.S. troops who are being under the custody of Aziz in Somalia, he's worked with the Pakistanis, he's worked in a lot of places as a diplomat, and it's very clear that's the direction he's taking.

WHITFIELD: So if this is indeed a pretty significant step toward bringing the two sides together, possibly as early as tomorrow, how much credit would you be willing to give to Vice President Cheney in that he sort got the ball rolling this week, so to speak, with Arab leaders, to kind of garner some sort to get the Arab leaders to get involved with bringing these two sides together?

SYLVAN: Well, I guess, Fredricka, I would actually characterize it a bit differently than that statement states. I think what happened is that Cheney and some others in the administration very much want to have a policy that is opposed to Iraq. He -- his mission was designed to try to get Arab countries to be part of a coalition in that effort. He got a lot of feedback, as I understand it, from Arab leaders, saying they did not want to try to bring the parties together -- at least to try to form a coalition against Iraq unless there was serious movement on the Israeli/Palestinian peace front. And therefore, there is a degree to which the genesis of the Zinni trip was in fact a response of many in the Middle East to the coalition efforts of Cheney.

WHITFIELD: So it sounds, though, then, Zinni has at least been able to garner some success when it comes to down to getting a response that the Arab leaders wanted from Sharon.

SYLVAN: There's no question about that, except let me -- OK, it's clear from past experience Zinni is trying to put forth, in effect, a three-step program. He wants to begin by garnering security promises from both Palestinians and Israelis. From Palestinians, he wants such things as making sure that they dismantle mortar factories; he wants to make sure that they make sincere promises to arrest a list that the United States will be providing, presumably, of folks who need to be in jail.

From the Israelis, he wants to make sure there are pull-outs from what the Oslo accords called Area A, in other words, those that were supposed to have been turned over entirely to the Palestinians, and that the Israelis handle checkpoints for passage to Israel a little bit differently.

Once he gets those done, he wants to move forward on the economic front. He, I think, would try to move some confidence-building measures on the economic front down to that first level. Those would include such things as fishing rights issues, the Gaza industrial zones issues and tax revenue issues from Israel. In all of those cases, he would try to move on the security issues first, the economic issues shortly thereafter, and only then start to move forward on the broader political front.

WHITFIELD: Well, some of those items seem to be and are on CIA Director George Tenet's plan. But of the items in his plan, what do you suppose might be the greatest hurdles in which to get the two sides to agree upon?

SYLVAN: Well, the Tenet plan, as you have implied, Fredricka, basically is one for a cease-fire. It's supposed to be followed by the Mitchell plan, which is one for direct talks and specific actions.

The Tenet plan will only work if both sides do not set formal deadlines. One of the things that General Zinni and this administration have been very direct about is that they reject some of the previous moves on both sides and the Oslo accords, as a matter of fact, which set artificial deadlines. In other words, they would say in 72 hours this or in seven days that.

The Tenet plan and Zinni's negotiation of the Tenet plan are based upon understanding particular milestones. In other words, we will move forward with step B once step A is completed. We will move forward with step C once step B is completed, and there won't be artificial deadlines of 72 hours or seven days along the way. That's the portion of the Tenet plan that is most critical in Zinni's negotiations right now.

WHITFIELD: All right. Thank you very much, professor Donald Sylvan, joining us from Ohio State University. Professor, thanks very much, and I'm sure we'll be talking again on this. Our talks on this topic are just seemingly beginning as we find out whether talks tomorrow involving Israeli, U.S. and Palestinian officials will be beginning.

All right, thanks very much.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com