Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Live Saturday

Israeli Ground Tactics for Occupation of Arafat Headquarters

Aired March 30, 2002 - 22:15   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: Israeli ground forces have Yasser Arafat's headquarters in Ramallah under siege right now. And elsewhere in the city, five Palestinians are dead, after a close range gun fight with Israeli troops.

CNN military analyst General Don Shepperd joins us tonight to take a look at some of the tactics they've used on the ground.

Good evening, general, good to see you.

DON SHEPPERD, MAJ. GEN., MILITARY ANALYST, U.S. AIR FORCE (RET.): Good to see you, Carol.

LIN: Thanks for joining us so late this evening. I want to get you back to Michael Holmes' earlier report tonight. In part of it, he pointed out a group of Palestinian men were found, their bodies found shot at close range. The bullet patterns indicate that they were shot in the back or in the head, perhaps as they were kneeling. In this hand to hand combat situation, what does it sound like to you what happened as these Israeli troops were entering this compound?

SHEPPERD: Carol, as I talked to the people that do this type of thing, people such as members of the Delta Force or people that have been in that type of operation, it's very much like you see on TV in a police assault on a holdout of some type.

Basically, the reports were that these people were thought to have or have thrown grenades at the Israeli forces. And that case, you're going to break into a room. You are probably going to use some type of grenade or stunning device. And then you are going to demand that people lay down. Or if they begin to shoot, you're going to start shooting. And you're going to make sure that everybody that's shooting in there is dead.

That's the way they conduct these operations. It's violence at its worst and closest. And it's what war is about. And it just shows how terrible this thing is -- has progressed.

LIN: But it sounds like, you know, violence at close range, take no prisoners, ask no questions. Michael Holmes was reporting that witnesses were saying there was grenade debris, nothing to indicate that grenades had been thrown.

SHEPPERD: Yes. LIN: And it sounds like, I mean the suggestion is, it sounds like that these people were cold-bloodedly executed by Israeli troops? Is that a possibility?

SHEPPERD: Yes, we don't -- it's always a possibility. We don't have enough information from the reports to claim that. You almost have to have forensic examination, like a police investigation to determine that.

But again, any time you break into a room with people inside, and are forced to break into that room for whatever reason, and people are shooting, you're going to attempt to kill everybody that's shooting at you. And it's going to be at close range.

So I just can't tell from the pictures of the reports what really happened. We're only guessing, Carol.

LIN: What do you make of this Dubai Television journalist, Maher Shalabi, who told our Michael Holmes earlier that he was on the scene in Ramallah, that these Israeli troops had grabbed him, asked him to strip search, questioning his press credentials. And then he claims that they used him as a human shield, as they moved through this building, chasing these alleged Palestinian grenade throwers?

SHEPPERD: Yes, again, that's not the thing you like to hear out of professional soldiers. And the Israelis are professional army and very well disciplined army. The reason for stripping them is obvious. With people strapping themselves with explosives, that's what they're looking for there. But using people as a human shield is not something that anyone likes to see. I just can't comment on the reality of it or why anyone would do this.

LIN: And why do you -- yes, why would they do it? I mean, why would they use a civilian as a shield in a situation where they're armored and heavily armed?

SHEPPERD: Yes, they shouldn't. And obviously, they're doing it so that the people on the other side will lay down their arms and not shoot. That would be the reason you would do it, but it's not something a professional soldier would normally do.

LIN: Mm-hmm, all right. Take a look at the big picture for us, general. You've got a situation here where Yasser Arafat's compound is almost destroyed, down to three rooms as we understand. Israeli troops and tanks are surrounding this compound. And the word from the Israeli government is that they are going to stay in the region until the Palestinian leader turns to negotiations for peace and stops the suicide bombings.

What, in essence, what is telling the Israeli government and the Israeli military that this tactic is going to work because the tighter they squeeze, the more suicide bombers are turning out and wreaking havoc?

SHEPPERD: Yes, Carol, if I had a solution for this, I'd sure pose it, because everybody else in the world, including the U.N., is trying to do that. And we haven't found a solution yet. What appears to be taking place is the Israelis have cut the West Bank into three portions. And they're systematically surrounding it, rounding up known terrorist suspects, people that they want to arrest. And they're also going house to house, and looking for weapons caches.

In the meantime, the suicide attacks so far have continued. At some point, we have to find a solution, so that both sides understand that Israel cannot continue to occupy the Palestinian situation -- the Palestinian area. Palestine has to have a homeland of some sort. And the suicide bombings have to stop.

We have to convince both sides that basically neither one of them are going to get anywhere, before we ca come up with a solution. And no one has come up with a solution that's anywhere near successful yet. It's very, very sad, very difficult, Carol.

LIN: In a situation like this, the military commanders on the ground, as they make decisions about who to shoot, what to shoot, how much in this particular situation does the political equation come into play in that decision making on the ground?

SHEPPERD: Well, what you have in a situation on the ground or in the air or on the sea is rules of engagement sent by your military command. You operate as a soldier, an airman or a sailor within those rules of engagement. And basically, they say normally that you can take action to protect yourself when you're endangered. You can take action to protect your troops. But these rules of engagements, of course, are influenced by the political situation.

But basically, when you put soldiers on the ground, to do what the Israelis are doing right now, you are going to allow them to protect themselves. They're not doing wanton killing, but if people shoot at them, they're going to kill the people that are shooting at them for sure.

LIN: All right. The cycle of violence, as we we've been discussing it all day long. Thank you very much, General Don Shepperd. I wish we had more time.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com