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CNN Live Saturday

Operation Mountain Lion Is Under Way in Afghanistan

Aired April 06, 2002 - 18:10   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CATHERINE CALLAWAY: We're going to move on now to a development in Afghanistan. For the last six days, a top secret military operation has been under way in Afghanistan. It is called Operation Mountain Lion, and it involves checking out caves that were once hide- outs for Al Qaeda. CNN had an exclusive look at those operations, and our man in the field is CNN's Ryan Chilcote. He's joining us now on some details of what exactly you saw. Ryan, this is a maiden video we're about to show everyone. Tell us about your experience inside those caves.

RYAN CHILCOTE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good evening, Catherine. It really was quite amazing. The first thing that struck me was the intensity that these soldiers took with them, the adrenalin they had running in their systems as they had entered these caves. I mean, they really had no idea what or who might be inside, perhaps more importantly. And secondly, they did not know if there were any booby traps in there. So they were trying to be very careful, and they were very intense.

They had laser lights coming off of their assault rifles to illuminate inside the caves. They had grappling hooks, these things that they throw out to try and trigger any trick wires that might be inside.

Inside the caves, they were looking for munitions that any of the al Qaeda or Taliban forces might have left behind. They were also looking for any documents that might be useful in the search for al Qaeda or Taliban forces.

They did find a lot of material that looked to be of a religious nature, perhaps Korans. They found several handwritten notes, some of those rather interesting, curious you might say. They had things like anti-aircraft written on the top of them, misspelled, in English, and then they would continue on in Arabic. There were no Arabic speakers with us on that mission, so we can only speculate, but the soldiers said that they thought that those might be military handbooks on how to fight a war.

They also found things like bats inside those caves, and that's obviously something that the soldiers did not enjoy either.

CALLAWAY: Ryan, I'm hoping that you have your (UNINTELLIGIBLE) problems corrected now and that you can hear me. I understand we had some problems earlier. But I'm going to ask you anyway, can you tell what your observation was of the caves? Did they appear to be old caves or newly established caves? Were you able to tell?

CHILCOTE: Some of the caves -- well, they appeared to be old caves; perhaps some of them appear to be as many as two decades old. They're really quite amazing. They're built out of concrete, reinforced. They have separate holes for generators oftentimes, and several of the caves looked like they've been traveled in or lived in quite recently, and had things to indicate that. The soldiers said you could tell the people have been walking in them. And they had, like, for example, one cave that I was in actually had a "USA Today" newspaper from May 17 of last year.

CALLAWAY: Wow. Ryan, I can imagine this had to be a bit frightening for you. Of course, the soldiers are doing their jobs, you are too, but what did it feel like for you? Were you frightened?

CHILCOTE: It was rather frightening, quite frankly, going into the caves, because you really don't know what's inside there, and these soldiers didn't know what was waiting for them. And they were really sort of I guess putting their lives on the line, weren't they, looking in there and looking around for those documents. Obviously taking the utmost care, but it was quite an intense experience.

In addition to all of the fear, I was with the infantry, 400 soldiers from the 101st Airborne, and these soldiers were carrying about 130, 140 pounds of weight sometimes on their backs straight up a mountainside, at about 6,000 feet. So it was pretty intense, and there wasn't even really a lot of room for fear, because I was so exhausted all of the time.

CALLAWAY: Ryan, you mentioned that they were able to find some documents, but speaking with the troops after they entered and then exited the caves, did they feel like they had accomplished what they had set out to do, were they pleased with what they were able to acquire?

CHILCOTE: Well, these soldiers were happy to complete this mission. They said that everyone has their -- formally, they said that everyone has their own role to play in this mission, and their role was to search these caves, and when possible to also to attempt to destroy something that they did with both C4 explosives and small d (ph) and tank weapons.

But a lot of them, sort of, you know, when you got to talk to them said that they were a little bit disappointed that they did not bump into any al Qaeda or Taliban forces. They were really looking for a fight, and that is not something that they expected to get there, but something that deep down inside these soldiers would have liked to have seen.

CALLAWAY: Brave work by all involved, Ryan. Ryan Chilcote, CNN's Ryan Chilcote, thank you very much for the video, the story, and for your work out there. Stay safe.

CHILCOTE: Thank you.

CALLAWAY: U.S. forces continue to maintain a presence in Afghanistan. Now, let's talk to CNN military analyst General Don Shepperd. He's joining us. And Afghanistan analyst Thomas Gouttierre, who's joining us by telephone.

General, I want to start with you. You just saw that video. I know you've been seeing it all day, but I was thinking about how when all of this first started, you and I had this conversation on the air, in fact, about how this was certainly -- allied forces did not want to be where they had to go from cave to cave, how incredibly dangerous it is. Indeed, they have been doing this for some time now. This is the second mission where they've had to do this. Do you think that what they are finding in these caves is worth the risk?

MAJ. GEN. DONALD SHEPPERD (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, Catherine, whether it's worth the risk or not, they've got to do it. They've got to look for intelligence information. And in some cases -- we call these caves and tunnels, but these are bunkers that have to be destroyed so they can't be used again.

This is 101st Airborne. They're doing what soldiers do. They're looking for a fight, but the Taliban and the al Qaeda are gone from the area. That makes it a little safer. But I tell you, sticking your head inside one of these caves, coming in from the light into the dark is dangerous stuff and scary stuff. And great reporting by Ryan Chilcote and his camera crew that accompany him.

CALLAWAY: Yes, it is. Let's talk now with Thomas Gouttierre. You're on the phone with us, and I want to ask you a little bit. You just got back from Afghanistan, did you not, and met with Hamid Karzai?

THOMAS GOUTTIERRE, UNIVERSITY OF NEBRASKA: Yes, I did, just got back, in fact, yesterday.

CALLAWAY: And what was his reaction to the current phase of where the allied forces are now in their operation?

GOUTTIERRE: I think that Hamid Karzai and all the members of the Afghan government with whom I had a chance to speak are exceedingly pleased to continue to have the international forces and particularly the American forces doing what is going on right now, because I think they believe that the future for their own stability is very much predicated upon the continued participation and efforts of the United States.

As you know, their own control over the country at the moment is still somewhat limited, and it's really in some ways is only -- and in particular specifics are only, you know, connected to Kabul itself, so the presence of our troops I think is highly appreciated there, and I think not only does the government feel that way but so do all of the people of Afghanistan with whom I had a chance to speak, and I think that's, you know, a pretty widely held view across the country.

CALLAWAY: You know, general, we've heard Ryan say that the troops express some disappointment that they were not able to encounter any al Qaeda members. You know, as a military man, I'm sure you can understand that, but how valuable is the information that they were able to acquire? Are they really going to learn anything from these documents?

SHEPPERD: Well, I think every now and then they will come across something that's a piece of the puzzle. It can be coordinated with other things to give us a picture worldwide of these operations. They're doing again, the soldiers are always are spoiling for a fight, whether you're a sailor, a soldier or an air man, you want some action out there. The good news is they're not receiving action because the action so far has been very effective. The Taliban and the al Qaeda are on the run and under pressure. Doesn't mean that they're gone forever, but they're understandable that they're spoiling for a fight. When you're carrying a 130-pound pack up the mountain, you'd like to find something useful.

CALLAWAY: And walking into a dark cave, I can't think of anything that could be scarier.

Mr. Gouttierre, let me ask you a question about this area. It's hard for Americans to understand this region of where they were, where these caves are. Is this an area where there are villages, is this an inhabited area? Can you give us an idea?

GOUTTIERRE: Sure. This is above an area where there are villages, and these caves are located in areas that were very, very critical, crucial to the war against the Soviet Union as well, and most of these I think were probably constructed during that period. In fact, they look like they were, you know, from that period originally, and even though they may have been strengthened in recent years. And this is, you know, means that they have been there and they have been able to be redefined and redeveloped during the period that the al Qaeda terrorists were, you know, training terrorists and preparing for their own defense, which they thought may of course come against the U.S. if they indeed were to carry on what they did.

So this region of Paktia is a relatively fertile region. Even the mountain areas have quite a lot of trees around them, or at least they did before all of the fighting. And -- but they are also very, very full of caves that are able to be refined further into these types of caves that we are now seeing on TV for the purpose of originally to fight against the Soviets or to provide defense against the Soviets.

In fact, I think that it's important to understand that probably Osama bin Laden and some of his colleagues who were involved in that war against the Soviets probably were involved in helping to construct at least this network of caves. That's what their activities primarily consisted of.

CALLAWAY: All right. Mr. Gouttierre, gentlemen, we've run out of time. We can go forever on this subject, there's so much to talk about there. General Don Shepperd and Thomas Gouttierre, thank you both for being with us, and earlier, of course, Ryan Chilcote for his incredible work there in Afghanistan. Thank you all for being with us.

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