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CNN Live Saturday
Interview With Paul Bremer
Aired April 20, 2002 - 17:08 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Who are all the victims in the violence in the Middle East, and how do you explain the violence and how do you end it? Here to explore some of those questions, we're joined now by Ambassador Paul Bremer. He's a former State Department official who served as chairman of the National Commission on Terrorism and he is chairman and CEO of Marsh Crisis Consulting. Thanks for joining us.
AMB. PAUL BREMER, MARSH CRISIS CONSULTING: Good evening.
WHITFIELD: All right. Well, U.N. investigators, that's the first up at bat here. U.N. investigators are going to be heading to Jenin soon. Is it going be too late, in your view, in order for them to really ascertain just how many people may have been killed in Jenin, and how?
BREMER: I don't think so. I think they'll be able to get a fairly good feeling. They won't know down to the last person, but they'll be able to confirm whether or not there's been a massacre there, as has been asserted, or whether or not, as the Israelis assert, those people who were killed were largely terrorists.
WHITFIELD: And how do you suppose they will go about their fact- finding mission? Many Palestinians there have accused the Israeli troops of removing a number of the bodies before even journalists were allowed to come in and survey some of the damage.
BREMER: Well, the U.N. will obviously take testimony from those Palestinians, and then presumably question Israelis as appropriate, but you know, I think it's important to keep this in perspective here. The Israeli operation on the whole has been a success, and has apparently been conducted in accordance with the international law. They've captured or killed some 5,000 people who they say are terrorists. They've uncovered a large number of bomb-making factories, including one in Jenin, incidentally, a camp run by the U.N. And the U.N., as far as I know, still said nothing publicly about how it could be that there was a bomb-making factory in a refugee camp run by the United Nations. So both sides have points to make here.
WHITFIELD: Is it your belief that a third party needs to intervene in order to promote some sort of peace? Perhaps even U.N. peacekeepers? Do you suppose that that is, or would be, a successful route in which to take? BREMER: Certainly not at this point. Wars generally end when one side wins or loses, or the two parties are so exhausted that they can't continue any longer, and then the ground is favorable for third- party mediation. We're clearly not at that point now. While the Israelis are withdrawing, Arafat has clearly not stopped his support for terrorism. We saw another attack, another attack, today. Until the Palestinians are prepared to renounce terrorism, I don't think there's a role for any third party here.
WHITFIELD: Former President Jimmy Carter in tomorrow's "New York Times" has an op-ed. And we'd like to bring you a portion of what he says. He says: "The blame should really be pointed in both directions. For one," he says, "Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, his goal is to establish Israeli settlements as widely as possible throughout occupied territories and to deny Palestinians a cohesive political existence." On Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat he says: "Yasser Arafat never exerted control over Hamas and other radical Palestinians who reject the concept of a peaceful Israeli existence and adopt any means to accomplish their goal." Do you agree with what the president is saying?
BREMER: Well, I have great respect for former President Carter, but I think he's basically wrong on both counts. First of all, the intifada was started before Sharon was prime minister, 18 months ago, when Arafat turned down the most generous offer ever made to the Palestinians by former Prime Minister Barak and President Clinton. He started this violence then.
Secondly, it's not that Arafat hasn't controlled Hamas and the Palestinian Islamic Jihad. Arafat's own security forces have been deeply involved in this terrorism, as has been made crystal clear by the evidence that the Israelis have turned up in the last three weeks. 4-17, which is Arafat's own group, Al Aqsa Brigades, which have conducted terrorist attacks, the Tanzim. The Israelis found a bomb- making factory in the office of Arafat's security chief. They found another one in the office of the Palestine Authority's intelligence chief. It's not that Arafat hasn't controlled them; Arafat has encouraged and practiced terrorism.
WHITFIELD: OK. All right. Thank you very much, Ambassador Paul Bremer. We're out of time this evening, but thanks so much for joining us for your perspective.
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