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CNN Live Saturday

Interview With Sociologist Bill D'Antonio

Aired April 27, 2002 - 18:05   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CATHERINE CALLAWAY, CNN ANCHOR: More details of the sex-abuse scandal in the Catholic Church are coming to light now. A nationwide review of Catholic dioceses shows that since January, at least 174 priests have either resigned or been relieved of duty. The majority -- 30 -- came from the state of California. Twenty-three priests have resigned in Pennsylvania. Massachusetts and New Hampshire have lost 17; New York has lost eight. The information was compiled by the Associated Press.

Well, cardinals who met with the pope insist that they have embraced a zero tolerance policy for priests who have molested children, but many people just are not convinced. In fact, in a "Newsweek" poll, 82 percent feel that the church is just being too lenient.

Here now with some perspective on some of those feelings and the impact of the Vatican meeting, a sociologist Bill D'Antonio.

Thank you very much for -- oh, I didn't say your name right -- I'm so sorry -- oh, my goodness, I apologize for that. You know what? I like the fact that you cringed. We like it when you tell us when we're wrong. We're sorry, we got that incorrect. We appreciate you being with us today, though, to talk about this story.

First, let me get your reaction to the decision that was made to keep Cardinal Law -- to keep him in the church -- he's not losing his position. What kind of message is that sending?

BILL D'ANTONIO, SOCIOLOGIST: Well, I think the message of the whole week has been one of hope and disappointment. There was hope when the Vatican appeared to be saying that there'd be no tolerance, and then there seemed to be waffling on that as they talked about -- well, no tolerance for serial predators of minors.

And then they talked about, however, it might be different with some consensual activity among -- with a priest and perhaps a young woman. I think that proved to be a disappointment.

Then there was more disappointment when they said that they would involve the laity and now it appears that -- Cardinal Law has certainly indicated for Boston that he does not want the -- to encourage the laity to form parish counsels that are in any way independent of the hierarchical structure that already exists there. And so I think that the laity would have appreciated the cardinal reaching out and saying I want to work with you, it's time for us to get together. And that just didn't happen. So, it's another disappointment. Again, so was the discussion in Philadelphia, one of hope and one of somewhat disappointment. They talked again about no tolerance.

CALLAWAY: What does that mean, zero tolerance?

D'ANTONIO: That's right...

(CROSSTALK)

CALLAWAY: I mean, are you reporting this as a crime? Or is the Church merely looking at this as a sin?

D'ANTONIO: Well, if they are, then they're missing the point for the laity. It's a crime as well as a sin, and they want the crime punished. And the -- besides that, the laity clearly believes that they have the right to participate in the life of the church here and these are important issues for the laity. And it certainly continues to disappoint. Especially those of us who have been following this research over many years now and see the laity clearly saying we have a right to participate, we have our own ideas, we'd like to discuss them, we'd like to be included.

CALLAWAY: So, don't you think that those within the church are looking for more of a definitive ruling -- or, if not ruling, then order within the church on what should be done in this case? In these kind of cases?

D'ANTONIO: Well, when you talk about definitive rulings -- rulings that come from above will simply continue -- what appears increasingly to be a growing gap between the laity and the Church leaders. There is a real gap of credibility here, and it's demonstrated in all of our research over the last 20 years and this sex-abuse scandal simply exacerbates that problem.

CALLAWAY: What would you -- I mean, what do you think, exactly, needs to be done to set some type of precedent? And, in Cardinal Law's case, it would seem that special circumstances here -- he may not have been the priest that committed the sin, the crime, but he is the one who supervises them. He is the one who everyone looks to, to give guidance to the priests.

D'ANTONIO: I think if you look at the -- all the discussion over the last month -- the real shock to laity was that this appears to be the same kind of cover-up that we have had with many of our politicians, that we have had with Enron -- the public are simply being misinformed and not being led by their leaders. The failure of leadership here is, I think, what is most discouraging to the American Catholic laity. When you hear conservative and moderate Catholics speaking out, you know that this is a serious problem.

CALLAWAY: All right. Well, still a long way to go on this topic. D'ANTONIO: Amen.

CALLAWAY: Bill D'Antonio, thank you very much for being with us today.

D'ANTONIO: You're welcome.

CALLAWAY: Well, the Catholic Church has not only lost the faith of some of its parishioners, it's also losing some financial support as well. CNN's Jason Carroll looks at how donations to some Catholic causes are drying up and who is getting it worse.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The annual Cardinals Dinner is an important part of raising money for the Catholic University of America. But now there are questions of how effective the university's chairman, Boston's Cardinal Bernard Law, can be at raising money. Law has acknowledged he's a lightning rod for the church's sex-abuse scandal. Some donors don't want their dollars to help pay off lawsuits involving accused priests. Others simply refuse to send checks unless Law resigns.

Already, the cardinal's annual garden party, a major fund-raiser at the Archdiocese of Boston, is canceled this year. Donations to Catholic Charities, the state's largest private social service agency, down 10 percent.

MAUREEN MARCH, CATHOLIC CHARITIES: We've seen a drop in donations. We had a drop in our foundation and corporate grants in the past several weeks because we're a Catholic organization.

CARROLL: The Church is having problems bringing major donors, like Edward Ricci, back into the fold. He's been a church fund-raiser for 30 years.

EDWARD RICCI, CATHOLIC FUNDRAISER: This is a scandal that involves sex, money, and power. The sex is out of control, that we know. The power, they have, they won't give it up. The only recourse that the Catholic layman and laywoman has is to withhold financial contributions.

CARROLL: The fallout from the financial backlash is being felt at places like this community center in South Boston. Donations keep the day care center open.

SISTER MARY ADELE ROBINSON: The impact on us is that we have to reduce staff, we have to therefore reduce services, and fewer people are then helped.

CARROLL: Sister Mary Adele Robinson says it's a message that may be getting lost. But a scandal with no clear ending in sight.

Jason Carroll, CNN. Boston.

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