Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Live Saturday

Interview with Richard Murphy

Aired May 04, 2002 - 12:40   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KRIS OSBORN, CNN ANCHOR: The U.S. and the international community are eager to find an end to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. Joining us now from New York to talk about the difficult peace effort is Ambassador Richard Murphy, former assistant secretary of state and a senior fellow on for the Middle East at the Counsel on Foreign Relations. Hello to you, Ambassador.

Ambassador, there is a lot on the table with the proposed international conference -- the quartet, as it's called. Let's start with the international involvement: We have the U.N., we have Russia, the U.S., the E.U., as well as people from other countries.

AMB. RICHARD MURPHY, FORMER ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF STATE: Yes, this grouping met early on in Secretary Powell's visit to the region last month. They met in Madrid. And pretty clearly the United States, Bush Administration, is interested in involving those parties in the broader discussion of what can be done to get the parties to negotiations and is less exclusive about it than the Clinton Administration had been, and its predecessors.

OSBORN: Well, ambassador, you mentioned the broader discussion in part. This appears to be a somewhat of a departure from what we have seen thus far to some degree, particularly because this conference focuses not only on peace but also on economic and political reconstruction, if you will, of the Palestinian state.

MURPHY: OSBORN: Yes. I think the fact is, nobody knows yet. It appears very few decisions are made -- have been made in Washington, except to say that it would be at the ministerial level, that Secretary Powell would lead the American delegation. I think that was to avoid getting caught in the controversy over would Chairman Arafat be there, and if so what would Prime Minister Sharon, how would he react?

I mean, his views have been very strong on that issue. So to put that one to rest, right now, ministerial level and that the whole range of issues is out there, but I think the basic game is to establish, as I understand it, the principles that would guide the negotiations and that they have to also deal with the very urgent humanitarian concerns and the reconstruction of the Palestinian governmental infrastructure which has been just devastated.

OSBORN: Ambassador, you talked about this being at the ministerial level. There has been some suggestion that if foreign ministers are involved, and we don't have, as you said, heads of states, Arafat and Sharon are not, themselves, sitting down, hashing this stuff out, could this be just window dressing?

MURPHY: If it is, it's a terrible mistake. And I don't think that's Powell's intention. You had Senator Hagel talking earlier in the day about the time is running out about and what is needed is to give the Israelis and Palestinians both a clearer idea of how their security will be protected, and the Palestinians a much clearer idea of what the Americans and the international community mean by a viable state in the future.

OSBORN: Well, ambassador, this is something clearly you have a lot of experience with. There are a lot of details about this we have yet to understand. But a meeting of foreign ministers could marshal further international pressure. Does the greater international pressure mean greater prospects for peace, the world community speaking out?

MURPHY: I don't think it can hurt. They'll have to be aware, and if you just look at the report that Sheila MacVicars did, at the sensation -- at the opinion in Israel that the world is against it, has always been against it, will continue to be against it, the U.N. is an enemy, that sort of attitude is going to be a reality that the parties are going to have to deal with. But bringing the U.N. in, the Europeans, Israel's principal trading partner, the Russians, our long- term partner that has been relatively inactive in the peace process in the last few years, I think it can help.

OSBORN: Ambassador, discussions of this kind almost invariably lead to the sort of litmus test, the reality test, if you will. How could something like this, were there to be an agreement of any kind, how could there be oversight? How could it be monitored?

MURPHY: That's very hard for anyone to comment on right at this time. I think these -- that's the very heart of the discussion, is that Powell and President Bush are going to be having with their visitors in the coming weeks. You have Sharon coming to Washington next week as well as King Abdullah of Jordan. All of the issues are going to have to be thought through very carefully as the Americans formulate their position and discuss it with the others in the quartet.

OSBORN: Ambassador, those on the Israeli side are often reluctant to privilege the position of Yasser Arafat, saying there is no moral equivalence between what they argue is defensive military action and of course, those on the Palestinian side saying it is merely what they need to do.

MURPHY: Well, I think the fact is the U.S. reached into the whole fray of these last several days and pulled the Israeli chestnuts out of the fire. It has not insisted that the United Nations continue its efforts to investigate or to get a report out on the Jenin situation and it did come up with the idea of how to get Arafat out of the detention of his compound in Ramallah. That was an essential.

And now the harder part begins: What are we going to do to help put all of these pieces together that will reassure both the Israelis and the Palestinians that peace is better than the situation they have been living through for this past year a half of violence and for many years in the past.

OSBORN: Ambassador Murphy, thank you for joining us. Thank you for your time and perspective on this very complicated issue.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com