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How Much Longer Can the Pope Continue His Duties?

Aired May 18, 2002 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Pope John Paul II celebrated his 82nd birthday today. As the pope grows older and physically weaker, there is increasing debate about his future. Will he step down or stay on? More on that from our Rome bureau chief, Alessio Vinci.

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ALESSIO VINCI, CNN ROME BUREAU CHIEF (voice-over): Pope John Paul II received an early three-foot-long birthday cake from a group of young people during a trip to the Italian islands of Isqia (ph) two weeks ago. For this cake, the pope said, you need a very youthful appetite.

In greeting well wishers the pope looked frail and exhausted. Suffering from a series of pains ranging from the symptoms of Parkinson's disease to an arthritic knee, even a simple wave of his hand has become an effort.

Within Vatican walls talks about succession is strongly discouraged, but recently Honduran cardinal Rodrigo (UNINTELLIGIBLE) said the pope would know if the time comes to step down.

The pope the fully aware of his responsibility, the cardinal said, and when he realizes that he can no longer go on, he will have the courage to say, I quit.

His comments, echoed by another top Vatican official who said, however, the pope would hold on for as long as he could bear the pain. What happens should the pope fall so ill that he can no longer speak, for example?

JOHN ALLEN, NATIONAL CATHOLIC REPORTER: The Vatican has never confirmed John Paul II has written a letter indicating what should happen if he becomes incapacitated but it's reasonable for us to assume he has. His predecessor wrote such a letter, which he gave to his private secretary, saying if I become incapacitated consider this my resignation so that a successor can be elected. Of course Paul VI lived another 15 years. It is quite possible, in face I would say it is likely, that this pope has written such a letter.

VINCI: During his general audience in St. Peter's Square this week, the pope responded to birthday greetings, saying "I count on your spiritual support to continue faithfully in the ministry that the Lord entrusted to me." It is that faith, Vatican observers say, that gives the pope strength to go on.

(on camera): Next week the pope travels to Azerbaijan and Bulgaria. Then in July he goes to Canada, Guatemala and Mexico, and in August he has planned his ninth trip to his native Poland. This is not a pope who intends to ease up on his work schedule. Alessio Vinci, CNN, Rome.

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WHITFIELD: More now on the Pope John Paul's position in the world on his 82nd birthday. We turn to an associate professor of theology at Georgetown University, Chester Gillis, joining us from Washington. Good afternoon, thanks for joining us.

CHESTER GILLIS, GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY: Good afternoon, Fredricka, my pleasure.

WHITFIELD: This has to be a rather bittersweet birthday celebration for the pope. He was unable or unwilling to read his entire birthday speech as he usually does in its entirety. Instead he got the assistance from a priest.

In addition to that the Vatican lawyer now coming out and saying or urging the U.S. bishops that they do not owe it to the civilian authorities to report any such suspected behavior of sexual abuse among the priests. Does this in any way sort of overshadow the pope's position, his legacy, with this growing scandal?

GILLIS: It is certainly a very difficult time for the pope and the church. I do not think, however, that it will overshadow his entire legacy. He's in the 24th year of his papacy, a very distinguished papacy and a very celebrated papacy. The pope is well known around the world, he has made the papacy a household item around the world by his travels, he has opened the church to the world, he has made the church much more international in the kind of cardinals he's appointed.

This is a difficult period but it has to be put in context of the whole history.

WHITFIELD: And he was leading the Catholic Church during the fall of communism, he is being credited with helping to increase the growth of Catholicism in the third world countries, but at the same time he has received an awful lot of criticism in recent months, particularly last month, with not taking his position a step further to encourage the U.S. bishops to do more to condemn the behavior of those past aggressions.

GILLIS: Well, I think that in some ways, he managed the case well in that he called them to Rome, he gave them strict directives, he gave them his intentions of what he thinks should be right for the church, but he left the details of it to them, which they will work out in June at their meeting, so in a sense the pope is working with a principal subsidiary here in which he allows those in the native country where there's a difficulty to resolve it themselves.

And I think that's probably prudent management. He doesn't want to micro manage every part of the Church in the world, but on the other hand it's good for him to a macro manager and to be the single authority in the Church that the Church can look to for guidance.

WHITFIELD: You talk about next month's U.S. conference of bishops that will take place in Dallas. Today's warning or issuance of that publication from the Vatican lawyer, does that in any way offer a warning, so to speak, to the U.S. bishops not to take it too far, that they still need to follow the guidance of the Vatican before they issue any sort of new mandates?

GILLIS: Well, I think they are following the guidance of the Vatican. They got that guidance when they met with the pope and Vatican officials. They will take into consideration what Vatican lawyers are saying, canon lawyers, but they have their own canon lawyers and they have to come up with a policy that's credible in America to restore the credibility of the American hierarchy and the Church in people's minds.

I think that might be taken as advice but it's not necessarily a specific directive toward them. They will be independent minded in what they do in their June meetings and they know what needs to be done. I think firmly they'll have to come up with a very strong policy.

WHITFIELD: The pope started showing a most obvious signs of Parkinson's back in 1993. It is progressively getting worse, we saw him most recently during Easter ceremonies where he was unable, he was very limited to do very much.

Two cardinals have already said within the Vatican that they believe that the pope would step down if they felt that his health were impairing his ability to lead. Do you believe that is the case, that he would voluntarily step down? Might he have to be removed from power as his health continues to grow more and more frail every day?

GILLIS: It appears right now he has no intention of stepping down in the immediate future at least, as the commentator just said, he has plans for significant travels in the next three or four months, which will be burdensome, I'm sure, to him, but I don't think he counts the burden for himself.

He has always been very generous with his time and his spirit. On the other hand, if he were to become completely incapacitated there is no mechanism whereby he can be removed unless he himself has indicated in some letter that he would like to be removed if he is incapacitated. He may have taken that measure, I don't know.

If he were to do that, in many ways it could secure his legacy as one of the greatest popes of history. It would be a very rare -- only the second time in the history of the papacy that anyone has resigned the papacy, but if he were completely incapacitated it might be prudent for the good of the Church. The pope has lived his life for the good of the Church and may have the foresight to see that. I don't see it in the foreseeable future. He intends to stay at the helm, and he seems to be mentally quite competent to do so. Although I feel bad for him physically, that it's very onerous for him to get around, it's a very painful process for him to do his daily chores for the Church. But he willingly does them.

WHITFIELD: Pope John Paul II, 82 today. Thank you very much, Chester Gillis, joining us from Washington.

GILLIS: My pleasure, Fredricka, thank you.

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