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CNN Live Saturday

Interview with Dr. Harvey Kushner

Aired July 13, 2002 - 18:03   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CATHERINE CALLAWAY, CNN ANCHOR: We're going to begin this half- hour with reports of possible al Qaeda-linked terrorist training camps in southern Oregon. Several newspapers say federal investigators are looking into reports that a Seattle-based group of Muslims was scouting a location in Oregon for such a camp.

A man connected to the group, Semi Osman, is now in federal custody on immigration and weapons charges. Essex Porter from CNN affiliate KIRO has more on Osman's background.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ESSEX PORTER, KIRO-7 EYEWITNESS NEWS (voice-over): In May, FBI agents searched this apartment in north Tacoma. It is the home of Semi Osman, a native of Sierra Leone, a British citizen, and a U.S. resident since the late 1980s.

KATRINA KONONENKO: They were really, really nice to us and they were, like, always saying hi, and they really, liked, liked us, and we really liked them.

PORTER: Court documents show Osman was arrested on May 23. Two handguns and one assault rifle were confiscated. Now, Osman is charged with possessing an illegal firearm because the serial number was obliterated on one of the handguns. He's also charged with an immigration violation to facilitate international terrorism.

Osman and friends the FBI is investigating attended this now- defunct mosque in central Seattle. The Seattle Times report the majority of members broke away from the mosque to get away from a small group of radicals that included Osman.

Some members of the Seattle group are reportedly supporters of England-based militant Sheik Abu Hamza al-Masri, thought to be a recruiter for Al Qaeda. And, he has connections with Sakina (ph) Security Services, a London-based outfit on trial this week in a British court, for offering holy war terrorist training camps in the United States.

One of those training camps might have been nearby Oregon. Where fifteen of the militants gathered for target practice three years ago.

No one answered when we knocked at Semi Osman's door in Tacoma, though neighbors say his wife and daughter still live here. As the FBI search warrant describes, a label on the door proclaims, "No true God, but Allah."

Osman's attorney points out that his client once served in the U.S. Army, still serves in the Naval Reserves. He says his client is innocent.

Essex Porter, KIRO-7 Eyewitness News, Seattle.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CALLAWAY: Well, the idea of terrorist's training on U.S. soil is frightening, but it may not be a new one, and here to look at terrorist's operating in the U.S., the author of "The Encyclopedia of Terrorism," Dr. Harvey Kushner, a professor at Long Island University, joining us from New York this afternoon. Thank you for being with us, sir.

DR. HARVEY KUSHNER, AUTHOR, "Encyclopedia of Terrorism": My pleasure, Catherine.

CALLAWAY: You weren't really surprised by these reports in the two papers today, were you?

KUSHNER: No, certainly not. There's a history of international terrorists trying to set up camps on our shores. If you go back to the '93 bombing of the World Trade Center, the terrorists involved in that attack were trained here, on Long Island, in Pennsylvania with small arms and automatic weapons.

There's been history, in fact, of foreign governments such as Moammar Kadafi's Libya trying to recruit street gangs in the United States, such as El Rukin (ph), the Black Stone Rangers, back in the mid-80s, supplying them with money to try to launch an attack here. So, this is nothing new, Catherine.

CALLAWAY: You know, to me, Harvey, what is maybe not new but surprising in this is that the local enforcement, law enforcement, seemed to really be playing close attention to what was going on there, but the FBI didn't seem to be that interested until after September 11.

KUSHNER: Well, that's been the case here. You know, this has come to surface, certainly, post-9/11 with the cooperation between local law enforcement and what they've been looking at with the federal law enforcement. So, certainly, they've had them on the watch list. This is something that needs to be better coordinated, obviously.

But, you know, I'm not surprised that they've tried to set something up in Bly, Oregon, as well as some other locations throughout the United States which are isolated, where they can train, where they could test explosives...

CALLAWAY: That's what I want to ask you about; I want to talk about exactly what we're talking about when we say training camps, because the ones that we saw in Afghanistan are really not the same types of camps that you're talking about being set up in the northwest, are you?

KUSHNER: Well, you know, a variety. They can be some type of training -- they're more like a safe house, some place where people were plotting to do something would gather, share information and maybe launch their operation from that area. But not in the same sense as these massive camps in Afghanistan and the Sudan where people learn Explosives 101, you know, how to use an AK-47. Make no mistake about it, that possibility does exist. You know, America's a large country and you can be in an isolated, rural area and you could train.

CALLAWAY: It seems to me that some red flags would have been set off, you know, and waving wildly when you hear about other Muslims leaving a mosque because of radicals in the group. That would certainly have to get the attention of the FBI.

KUSHNER: Well, it certainly will and that's a good sign. You know, it's been my contention that a lot of these mosques throughout the United States where these (UNINTELLIGIBLE) who don't really have a reputation are out there stealing incendiary rhetoric and it goes unnoticed and quite frankly it gathers recruits.

So, it's good to hear at least that mosques somewhere outside of a major metropolitan area had a group of individuals that was spouting this incendiary rhetoric and it disturbed some people. This is what we need, more of this, actually, to help in the battle against the mosque as recruiting grounds for players which would take arms against the United States.

CALLAWAY: And, why do you think that this particular area of the U.S., in the Northwest? Why do you think that this seems to be a favorite area, there? Or is it?

KUSHNER: Well, no, it is a favorite area. If you think, if you go back to 1999 when Ahmed Ressam crossed the Canadian border into the United States with a plan of possibly attacking the Seattle needle or LAX. The Canadian border is rather sparsely guarded and it's very easy to cross into the United States from that point and go unwatched and go unmonitored.

Also, we have a very large growing Muslim population out in that area, as well. So, it's an area that's ripe for this type of activity and needs to be watched very closely in the future.

CALLAWAY: All right, Dr. Harvey Kushner, I hope you'll come back and spend some more time with us when we do have more time. Thank you so much for being with us.

KUSHNER: Pleasure.

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