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CNN Live Saturday
Interview With Khidhir Hamza
Aired December 07, 2002 - 16:41 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Is Iraq's weapons declaration worth the 11,000 pages of paper and 12 CD-ROMs it's written on? Well, someone with a very educated guess is former Iraqi Nuclear Scientists Khidhir Hamza author of "Saddam's Bomb maker."
Dr. Hamza is with us in Washington. Sir, thanks for being with us.
KHIDHIR HAMZA, FORMER IRAQI NUCLEAR SCIENTIST: Thank you.
PHILLIPS: Well, I think one of the most fascinating things from your book and what I've learned about you is that you were ordered by Saddam to build an atomic bomb.
And I'm curious if you could take me back to that time -- did you want to do it?
HAMZA: No. Actually initially what we wanted to do was get some money out of Saddam on the pretext of making a nuclear weapon. And actually we had some in mind -- making one or two eventually to counterbalance the Israeli program. But that's not what Saddam had in mind. He had in mind a nuclear state right in the heart of the Middle East controlling the region -- that's what he had in mind.
PHILLIPS: How far did you get with building that bomb?
HAMZA: Actually we had a working nuclear weapon design. What we needed was the nuclear core. And at the onset of the Gulf War he ordered us to use the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) fuel we had to make the core for one nuclear weapon. And that terrified us, of course.
PHILLIPS: Dr. Hamza, do you think Saddam Hussein is obsessed with weapons of mass destruction?
HAMZA: This is the only thing he cares about. Look at what he did. He became chairman of the Atomic Energy so that we can make nuclear weapons, he created the Iraqi military industry and chaired it himself and nurtured it until he delivered it to his son-in-law who later defected.
This is his baby. This is the only thing he really cares about.
PHILLIPS: What was the final straw that made you get the heck out of there?
HAMZA: The (UNINTELLIGIBLE) program, which is admitted now by Iraq to make one nuclear weapon during the Gulf War.
PHILLIPS: So this Iraqi declaration now -- there's thousands of pages within this declaration. What do you think? Is this for real or is this a joke?
HAMZA: No -- this is a wild goose chase. It will put the inspectors chasing after so-called dual-use items and so-called associated industries -- that is industries that could be used for a weapon program but are not being used for a weapon program.
You see, there were eight declarations before this and I read the nuclear one -- the 1996 nuclear one (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
And if you go through it, it is just a waste of time. There is really no admission of anything.
Some of it -- believe it or not -- are foreign reports just taken out of the jacket and put -- inserted in the Iraqi declarations.
They just take a lot of foreign reporting -- all kinds of stuff. They just -- it is just a fill-in. And it just will take time for the inspectors to go through it and also notice that they already warned the inspectors that it has some classified materials about weapon designs that could be used by non-weapon -- non-nuclear and non-weapon of mass destruction states.
So that makes the job of the inspectors very difficult by trying to see through the report -- the 11,000 -- 12,000 pages of it and try to filter out only information that could be used by other states such as Syria, for example, which is a member of the Security Council.
PHILLIPS: So, Doctor . . .
HAMZA: Together with -- yeah?
PHILLIPS: I'm sorry -- go ahead.
HAMZA: Together with this there is an incitement to Kuwaitis to kill Americans. He already blessed those Kuwaitis who attacked Americans and asked all Kuwaitis to get rid of their American invasion -- what he called the American invasion, which means more of the same -- more attacks on American troops.
This is not a man who is seeking peace. This is a man who is really the same Saddam we knew -- very aggressive, very warlike and (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
PHILLIPS: So, Dr. Hamza, did he ever say to you or did you ever overhear Saddam Hussein say, "I want to use weapons of mass destruction. I want to use weapons of mass destruction against anybody who fights against me. I want to use weapons of mass destruction against America?"
HAMZA: That's not the way he operates. We are scientists. He doesn't deal with us this way. This is to his generals. We heard that from his son-in-law -- the head of the Iraqi military industry who works on his orders.
So Saddam operates -- Saddam is careful. It's on a need to know basis. A scientist doesn't need to know what strategies or what ways the weapons will be used. He job is to make the weapons. And Saddam is very careful not to make him too knowledgeable about what the weapons are going to be used.
PHILLIPS: Former Iraqi Nuclear Scientist Khidhir Hamza. Sir, I have to thank you so much for your time. Your book is very interesting. And I must say we thank you for coming back to the United States and leaving Saddam Hussein.
HAMZA: Thank you.
PHILLIPS: Thank you, sir.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired December 7, 2002 - 16:41 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Is Iraq's weapons declaration worth the 11,000 pages of paper and 12 CD-ROMs it's written on? Well, someone with a very educated guess is former Iraqi Nuclear Scientists Khidhir Hamza author of "Saddam's Bomb maker."
Dr. Hamza is with us in Washington. Sir, thanks for being with us.
KHIDHIR HAMZA, FORMER IRAQI NUCLEAR SCIENTIST: Thank you.
PHILLIPS: Well, I think one of the most fascinating things from your book and what I've learned about you is that you were ordered by Saddam to build an atomic bomb.
And I'm curious if you could take me back to that time -- did you want to do it?
HAMZA: No. Actually initially what we wanted to do was get some money out of Saddam on the pretext of making a nuclear weapon. And actually we had some in mind -- making one or two eventually to counterbalance the Israeli program. But that's not what Saddam had in mind. He had in mind a nuclear state right in the heart of the Middle East controlling the region -- that's what he had in mind.
PHILLIPS: How far did you get with building that bomb?
HAMZA: Actually we had a working nuclear weapon design. What we needed was the nuclear core. And at the onset of the Gulf War he ordered us to use the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) fuel we had to make the core for one nuclear weapon. And that terrified us, of course.
PHILLIPS: Dr. Hamza, do you think Saddam Hussein is obsessed with weapons of mass destruction?
HAMZA: This is the only thing he cares about. Look at what he did. He became chairman of the Atomic Energy so that we can make nuclear weapons, he created the Iraqi military industry and chaired it himself and nurtured it until he delivered it to his son-in-law who later defected.
This is his baby. This is the only thing he really cares about.
PHILLIPS: What was the final straw that made you get the heck out of there?
HAMZA: The (UNINTELLIGIBLE) program, which is admitted now by Iraq to make one nuclear weapon during the Gulf War.
PHILLIPS: So this Iraqi declaration now -- there's thousands of pages within this declaration. What do you think? Is this for real or is this a joke?
HAMZA: No -- this is a wild goose chase. It will put the inspectors chasing after so-called dual-use items and so-called associated industries -- that is industries that could be used for a weapon program but are not being used for a weapon program.
You see, there were eight declarations before this and I read the nuclear one -- the 1996 nuclear one (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
And if you go through it, it is just a waste of time. There is really no admission of anything.
Some of it -- believe it or not -- are foreign reports just taken out of the jacket and put -- inserted in the Iraqi declarations.
They just take a lot of foreign reporting -- all kinds of stuff. They just -- it is just a fill-in. And it just will take time for the inspectors to go through it and also notice that they already warned the inspectors that it has some classified materials about weapon designs that could be used by non-weapon -- non-nuclear and non-weapon of mass destruction states.
So that makes the job of the inspectors very difficult by trying to see through the report -- the 11,000 -- 12,000 pages of it and try to filter out only information that could be used by other states such as Syria, for example, which is a member of the Security Council.
PHILLIPS: So, Doctor . . .
HAMZA: Together with -- yeah?
PHILLIPS: I'm sorry -- go ahead.
HAMZA: Together with this there is an incitement to Kuwaitis to kill Americans. He already blessed those Kuwaitis who attacked Americans and asked all Kuwaitis to get rid of their American invasion -- what he called the American invasion, which means more of the same -- more attacks on American troops.
This is not a man who is seeking peace. This is a man who is really the same Saddam we knew -- very aggressive, very warlike and (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
PHILLIPS: So, Dr. Hamza, did he ever say to you or did you ever overhear Saddam Hussein say, "I want to use weapons of mass destruction. I want to use weapons of mass destruction against anybody who fights against me. I want to use weapons of mass destruction against America?"
HAMZA: That's not the way he operates. We are scientists. He doesn't deal with us this way. This is to his generals. We heard that from his son-in-law -- the head of the Iraqi military industry who works on his orders.
So Saddam operates -- Saddam is careful. It's on a need to know basis. A scientist doesn't need to know what strategies or what ways the weapons will be used. He job is to make the weapons. And Saddam is very careful not to make him too knowledgeable about what the weapons are going to be used.
PHILLIPS: Former Iraqi Nuclear Scientist Khidhir Hamza. Sir, I have to thank you so much for your time. Your book is very interesting. And I must say we thank you for coming back to the United States and leaving Saddam Hussein.
HAMZA: Thank you.
PHILLIPS: Thank you, sir.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
