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CNN Live Saturday
Tens of Thousands Protest Military Action Against Iraq
Aired January 18, 2003 - 18:01 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: Tens of thousands of people in 25 countries are protesting military action against Iraq. In this country alone, the biggest demonstrations were in San Francisco and Washington, D.C. CNN's Kathleen Koch was on the Mall in Washington.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They packed the Mall, tens of thousands of protesters, banging drums, carrying effigies, angry at the non-stop pace of the U.S. military buildup against Iraq.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We feel like it's very unfair. We don't want it done in our name. The Iraqi people are innocent. We're here to defend them.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm here because I'm for peace and I think that's the only alternative we have.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There is no need for the war. He has no -- there's no justification. There's no proof. There is no evidence. I think it is just a diversionary tactic to keep our minds off the economy.
KOCH: At the podium, speakers from Hollywood, religious and civil rights leaders, lawmakers, many echoing the ideology of Martin Luther King, Jr. on this weekend honoring his birthday.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Dr. King warned us that we have guided missiles and misguided men!
REV. AL SHARPTON: Just like Bush's son is in the White House, you children is in Washington today. We will stand up! We will not back down! We will fight the fight.
KOCH: Much of the fight for demonstrators Saturday, against the bitter sub-freezing temperatures.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We came anyway, it's a lot colder than I thought it was going to be.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You just dress warm, that's all. My son, good company.
KOCH: The crowds providing warmth and inspiration. JESSICA LANGE, ACTRESS: I think the spirit is tremendous. And always, always, the force of peace is much greater than the force of violence.
KOCH (on camera): The question for protesters, as they departed, whether or not the demonstration would actually do anything to slow the U.S. military buildup to potential war with Iraq?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't think this one action, no, I don't think it can change everything, but I think it's a start.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We may not be able to stop the beginning of the war, but we might hasten the end of it.
KOCH: Kathleen Koch, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LIN: Well, yes, it is a free country, but some think these protesters are traitors. Niles Gardiner has a suggestion about what should happen to these demonstrators. He is a visiting fellow at the Heritage Foundation. He joins us right now.
Niles, good to see you.
NILES GARDINER, HERITAGE FOUNDATION: Thank you very much.
LIN: Now, you say, you have told us, that you think these people are traitors and they should be treated as such, why?
GARDINER: Well, I think that the leaders of today's demonstrations of the United States have very close links with a number of extreme left-wing organizations. They are effectively acting as mouthpieces for the Iraqi propaganda machine. And I believe that these demonstrators should be viewed as such.
LIN: I mean, you actually think they should go on trial for their actions?
GARDINER: Well, I think if any of the anti-war demonstrators are foolish enough to go out to Baghdad and Iraq to act as human shields in the event of war, I believe that if they survive the Allied onslaught, that they should be put on trial if they return back to the United States.
LIN: But how is it that they're being a mouthpiece for the Iraqi government? I mean, this is a free society and what essentially they are trying to say is that the Bush administration has yet to present evidence that the Iraqis have weapons of mass destruction, therefore they're questioning any military action that should occur?
GARDINER: Well, I think that the Bush administration has made a tremendous case for military action against Iraq. The regime in Baghdad has simply not cooperated fully with the United Nations weapons inspectors. The Iraqi regime has not intention of disarming. And I believe that the anti-war movement here has not voiced any concern whatsoever about the plight of the Iraqi people who are living under a brutal totalitarian dictatorship.
LIN: Well, what evidence is there? What evidence do you have that the Iraqis are in violation?
GARDINER: I think that there's plenty of evidence. Of course, the latest find of chemical warheads, by the inspectors. We do have a tremendous amount of intelligence information gathered by the U.S. and British intelligence agencies, which no doubt will be released in the weeks ahead.
Let's not forget that the Iraqis are trying, everyday, to shoot down British and American war planes, flying over the no-fly zones. Again, in clear violation of Resolution 1441.
LIN: All right, well, military action certainly place in the northern and southern no-fly zones. We are going to be following the story, obviously, very closely, both sides, for you on the protest.
Thank you very much, Niles Gardiner, from the Heritage Foundation.
In the meantime, the Arab and Muslim world protested, as well. Marchers with Palestinian flags took to streets in the West Bank city of Hebron. Scores of people in Cairo, Egypt, also carried Palestinian flags. One sign declared, Iraq and Palestine are one issue.
Now, in Pakistan, protesters joined hands and held banners opposing war against Iraq.
Obviously, Americans appear to be very sharply divided on whether to wage war against Iraq. For example, a "Time" magazine CNN poll released today, shows 49 percent believe President Bush is doing a good job handling the Iraq problem. But 44 percent think he's dealing with it poorly.
Let's bring in CNN White House correspondent Suzanne Malveaux, she's in Washington.
Suzanne, is the White House worried about some of its polling numbers and public opinion?
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, sure the White House would like full support of the American people. We see that it's basically evenly split among Americans, whether or not the president is dealing with Iraq well.
But White House Spokesman Ari Fleischer says that the president, if he decides that military action is the way to go, that he is going bring his case before the American people. Either way, the Bush administration is confident that they have a strong a case against Saddam Hussein. Look to January 28, that is when the president is going to be giving his State of the Union Address, and he is going to give the status of the U.S. showdown with Iraq -- Carol. LIN: All right, thank you very much, Suzanne Malveaux, live at the White House.
Suzanne, we'd also like for you to stay with us. I know you're going to be talking to us in just a few minutes, fleshing out the North Korea debate, as well. We'll see you in just a moment.
In the meantime, as we move on, we're talking to our very own Bill Schneider about public opinion.
Bill, I'm just wondering what is on your mind today?
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, if you compare the situation with the situation at the time of the Gulf War 12 years ago. It is exactly the reverse. In 1991, the rest of the world was ready to go to war, because Iraq had committed a real provocation, they had invaded Kuwait. Americans, at that time, were reluctant. Right up until the eve of the Gulf War Americans were divided.
Now the situation is reversed. A majority of Americans now say it is worth going to war in Iraq, but the rest of the world is reluctant. Why are Americans willing to go to war now, this time? Because for one thing, the United States was attacked, not by Iraq, but by a group that most Americans believe has ties to Iraq.
And also, of course, the United States beat Iraq pretty easily in 1991, so a lot of Americans say, well we should just go in an finish the job. Other countries don't see a clear Iraqi provocation this time, like the invasion of Kuwait.
And now that inspectors are on the ground in Iraq polls in Europe show a rising sentiment against going to war.
LIN: So, what do you see as the overall -- the risks, Bill, of going to war then?
SCHNEIDER: Well, the problem is going it alone. You know, Americans have very short attention spans, so Americans want a quick and easy war, like the Gulf War, with few American casualties. Well, suppose it's not. Public opposition in a war rises very quickly with the number of casualties, especially if the rest of the world is not sharing the risk.
You know, the key complaint of those antiwar protesters we just saw out there in the cold today, is in a word, "unilateralism". The Bush administration is defying the rest of the world. And really the public, the American public is with the protesters on that point.
Our polling shows growing numbers of Americans say that the United States should not go into this war unless it receives explicit endorsement by the United Nations. And that number has been growing. They don't want to do this alone; they want to do this with the rest of the world.
LIN: All right, it's not show me the money, it's show me the weapons.
SCHNEIDER: Exactly.
LIN: We'll see what the final report of the U.N. weapons inspectors says on January 27.
Thank you very much, Bill Schneider, in Washington.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired January 18, 2003 - 18:01 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: Tens of thousands of people in 25 countries are protesting military action against Iraq. In this country alone, the biggest demonstrations were in San Francisco and Washington, D.C. CNN's Kathleen Koch was on the Mall in Washington.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They packed the Mall, tens of thousands of protesters, banging drums, carrying effigies, angry at the non-stop pace of the U.S. military buildup against Iraq.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We feel like it's very unfair. We don't want it done in our name. The Iraqi people are innocent. We're here to defend them.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm here because I'm for peace and I think that's the only alternative we have.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There is no need for the war. He has no -- there's no justification. There's no proof. There is no evidence. I think it is just a diversionary tactic to keep our minds off the economy.
KOCH: At the podium, speakers from Hollywood, religious and civil rights leaders, lawmakers, many echoing the ideology of Martin Luther King, Jr. on this weekend honoring his birthday.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Dr. King warned us that we have guided missiles and misguided men!
REV. AL SHARPTON: Just like Bush's son is in the White House, you children is in Washington today. We will stand up! We will not back down! We will fight the fight.
KOCH: Much of the fight for demonstrators Saturday, against the bitter sub-freezing temperatures.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We came anyway, it's a lot colder than I thought it was going to be.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You just dress warm, that's all. My son, good company.
KOCH: The crowds providing warmth and inspiration. JESSICA LANGE, ACTRESS: I think the spirit is tremendous. And always, always, the force of peace is much greater than the force of violence.
KOCH (on camera): The question for protesters, as they departed, whether or not the demonstration would actually do anything to slow the U.S. military buildup to potential war with Iraq?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't think this one action, no, I don't think it can change everything, but I think it's a start.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We may not be able to stop the beginning of the war, but we might hasten the end of it.
KOCH: Kathleen Koch, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LIN: Well, yes, it is a free country, but some think these protesters are traitors. Niles Gardiner has a suggestion about what should happen to these demonstrators. He is a visiting fellow at the Heritage Foundation. He joins us right now.
Niles, good to see you.
NILES GARDINER, HERITAGE FOUNDATION: Thank you very much.
LIN: Now, you say, you have told us, that you think these people are traitors and they should be treated as such, why?
GARDINER: Well, I think that the leaders of today's demonstrations of the United States have very close links with a number of extreme left-wing organizations. They are effectively acting as mouthpieces for the Iraqi propaganda machine. And I believe that these demonstrators should be viewed as such.
LIN: I mean, you actually think they should go on trial for their actions?
GARDINER: Well, I think if any of the anti-war demonstrators are foolish enough to go out to Baghdad and Iraq to act as human shields in the event of war, I believe that if they survive the Allied onslaught, that they should be put on trial if they return back to the United States.
LIN: But how is it that they're being a mouthpiece for the Iraqi government? I mean, this is a free society and what essentially they are trying to say is that the Bush administration has yet to present evidence that the Iraqis have weapons of mass destruction, therefore they're questioning any military action that should occur?
GARDINER: Well, I think that the Bush administration has made a tremendous case for military action against Iraq. The regime in Baghdad has simply not cooperated fully with the United Nations weapons inspectors. The Iraqi regime has not intention of disarming. And I believe that the anti-war movement here has not voiced any concern whatsoever about the plight of the Iraqi people who are living under a brutal totalitarian dictatorship.
LIN: Well, what evidence is there? What evidence do you have that the Iraqis are in violation?
GARDINER: I think that there's plenty of evidence. Of course, the latest find of chemical warheads, by the inspectors. We do have a tremendous amount of intelligence information gathered by the U.S. and British intelligence agencies, which no doubt will be released in the weeks ahead.
Let's not forget that the Iraqis are trying, everyday, to shoot down British and American war planes, flying over the no-fly zones. Again, in clear violation of Resolution 1441.
LIN: All right, well, military action certainly place in the northern and southern no-fly zones. We are going to be following the story, obviously, very closely, both sides, for you on the protest.
Thank you very much, Niles Gardiner, from the Heritage Foundation.
In the meantime, the Arab and Muslim world protested, as well. Marchers with Palestinian flags took to streets in the West Bank city of Hebron. Scores of people in Cairo, Egypt, also carried Palestinian flags. One sign declared, Iraq and Palestine are one issue.
Now, in Pakistan, protesters joined hands and held banners opposing war against Iraq.
Obviously, Americans appear to be very sharply divided on whether to wage war against Iraq. For example, a "Time" magazine CNN poll released today, shows 49 percent believe President Bush is doing a good job handling the Iraq problem. But 44 percent think he's dealing with it poorly.
Let's bring in CNN White House correspondent Suzanne Malveaux, she's in Washington.
Suzanne, is the White House worried about some of its polling numbers and public opinion?
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, sure the White House would like full support of the American people. We see that it's basically evenly split among Americans, whether or not the president is dealing with Iraq well.
But White House Spokesman Ari Fleischer says that the president, if he decides that military action is the way to go, that he is going bring his case before the American people. Either way, the Bush administration is confident that they have a strong a case against Saddam Hussein. Look to January 28, that is when the president is going to be giving his State of the Union Address, and he is going to give the status of the U.S. showdown with Iraq -- Carol. LIN: All right, thank you very much, Suzanne Malveaux, live at the White House.
Suzanne, we'd also like for you to stay with us. I know you're going to be talking to us in just a few minutes, fleshing out the North Korea debate, as well. We'll see you in just a moment.
In the meantime, as we move on, we're talking to our very own Bill Schneider about public opinion.
Bill, I'm just wondering what is on your mind today?
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, if you compare the situation with the situation at the time of the Gulf War 12 years ago. It is exactly the reverse. In 1991, the rest of the world was ready to go to war, because Iraq had committed a real provocation, they had invaded Kuwait. Americans, at that time, were reluctant. Right up until the eve of the Gulf War Americans were divided.
Now the situation is reversed. A majority of Americans now say it is worth going to war in Iraq, but the rest of the world is reluctant. Why are Americans willing to go to war now, this time? Because for one thing, the United States was attacked, not by Iraq, but by a group that most Americans believe has ties to Iraq.
And also, of course, the United States beat Iraq pretty easily in 1991, so a lot of Americans say, well we should just go in an finish the job. Other countries don't see a clear Iraqi provocation this time, like the invasion of Kuwait.
And now that inspectors are on the ground in Iraq polls in Europe show a rising sentiment against going to war.
LIN: So, what do you see as the overall -- the risks, Bill, of going to war then?
SCHNEIDER: Well, the problem is going it alone. You know, Americans have very short attention spans, so Americans want a quick and easy war, like the Gulf War, with few American casualties. Well, suppose it's not. Public opposition in a war rises very quickly with the number of casualties, especially if the rest of the world is not sharing the risk.
You know, the key complaint of those antiwar protesters we just saw out there in the cold today, is in a word, "unilateralism". The Bush administration is defying the rest of the world. And really the public, the American public is with the protesters on that point.
Our polling shows growing numbers of Americans say that the United States should not go into this war unless it receives explicit endorsement by the United Nations. And that number has been growing. They don't want to do this alone; they want to do this with the rest of the world.
LIN: All right, it's not show me the money, it's show me the weapons.
SCHNEIDER: Exactly.
LIN: We'll see what the final report of the U.N. weapons inspectors says on January 27.
Thank you very much, Bill Schneider, in Washington.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
