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CNN Live Saturday
Khalid Shaikh Mohammed Captured
Aired March 01, 2003 - 16:33 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: In case you're just joining us from your very busy weekend, we've had breaking news today that the No. 3 man, the military operations director of al Qaeda, Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, has been arrested in Pakistan. He's left that country and is heading to an unknown destination, likely to be interrogated by U.S. agents from the FBI and the CIA.
Joining us by videophone from Pakistan now is Islamabad bureau chief Ash-Har Quraishi. Ash-Har, take us through it. Exactly how did this arrest go down? It was just outside the Pakistani capital.
ASH-HAR QURAISHI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Carol. And this has been a tracking operation that's been ongoing for months now here in Pakistan. Khalid Shaikh Mohammed having confirmed to be hiding in Pakistan sometime last year.
Now, one of our CNN producers had actually met with him on two occasions, two occasions, once in central Pakistan and once in southern Pakistan. That was believed that on September 11, 2002, that Khalid Shaikh Mohammed was one of those people that escaped capture. That was a time that there was a raid that took place in the city of Karachi, when Ramzi Binalshibh was caught at that time. It is believed that he escaped at that point.
Now, what we're hearing from government officials is that there was a raid that took place here in the city of Quetta, here in Pakistan, very close to the Afghanistan border last week. Now, in that raid, they believe that they were looking for Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, they did not find him. It's believed that he escaped in that raid, but one person was picked up. Now, that person, according to our sources, was who led them to Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, who was hiding out in neighborhood Rawalpindi, which is about nine miles south here of the capital, Islamabad. Along with him, another man of Middle Eastern origin was captured in this raid. They are not saying very much about the identity of this man.
The Pakistani that was captured in this raid, making the total three, was a man named Ahmed Abdul Qadoos. Now, this man is somebody who is a member of Pakistan's largest religious political party here, the most organized party, Jamaat Islami. So officials right now are saying to us that Khalid Shaikh Mohammed is longer in Pakistan. They will not say exactly whose custody he's in, but it believed that he's in U.S. custody, but he is no longer in Pakistan -- Carol.
LIN: Ash-Har, to get from Quetta, which is on the southern border between Pakistan and Afghanistan, all the way up to Rawalpindi, I mean, that's a several hour flight and it's something like a 20-hour drive. So what does this tell you about how freely and easily top members of the al Qaeda regime are able to move around the country of Pakistan?
QURAISHI: Well, if you take into consideration how many al Qaeda operatives have been captured inside Pakistan over the last year, there have been over 400 suspected al Qaeda and Taliban that have been handed over to the United States by Pakistani authorities in joint raids, intelligence gathering by the FBI, by U.S. officials here in Pakistan, along with Pakistani security agencies, there were raids in Lahore and (UNINTELLIGIBLE) in the eastern portion in Pakistan, in March, in which one of the other big fishes, the al Qaeda top lieutenant Abu Zubaydah was caught.
So what we know for a fact is that these al Qaeda operatives, these top lieutenants have been found in cities as large as Lahore, Karachi, (UNINTELLIGIBLE), and now in neighboring Rawalpindi, which is just close to the capital. So they're able to travel freely. And the fact that he was found in the house of a mainstream political party member suggests that they have a lot more support here in Pakistan than maybe had been previously thought.
LIN: So what do your sources tell you that he might have been up to?
QURAISHI: Well, what we understand is that he had been moving around, but there's still very little information from our sources in the government right now as to what he was up to. The fact is that he has been on the run. He's been moving around quite a bit. If you look at where he's been over the past year, he's been in Karachi, he's been in Quetta and in Rawalpindi. Where else, we don't know.
But we understand, also, from our sources, intelligence sources tell us that the border with Afghanistan is very, very porous. The tribal belt there that runs from the northwestern frontier province into Baluchistan is something that is being patrolled by Pakistani troops. Of course, coalition forces on the other side, but it's still a very porous border, and the belief is that a lot of these remnants of the al Qaeda are able to cross back in and out.
LIN: It's like a 1,400-mile border. Very long indeed. Thank you very much, Ash-Har Quraishi, reporting live in Islamabad.
RENAY SAN MIGUEL, CNN ANCHOR: We want to go now to Suzanne Malveaux, White House correspondent. She's got reaction from President Bush on the arrest of Mohammed -- Suzanne.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: We have some more details coming from the White House, how all of this transpired and how the president was notified. We've been told by a White House spokeswoman that the CIA Director George Tenet actually called the National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice at midnight last night. She's at Camp David with the president, and he said, and I am quoting here, "it appears we've captured Khalid Shaikh Mohammed. We're pretty certain it is him." That was not confirmed until this morning. We're then told that at about 7:00 in the morning, National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice told the president from her cabin at Camp David. The president reacted, and I am quoting here, he said, "that's fantastic." Clearly, very good news for the administration. Everyone is quite pleased, very proud of this joint effort between Pakistani officials and U.S. officials in nabbing and capturing the mastermind of the September 11 attacks.
SAN MIGUEL: All right, Suzanne Malveaux, thank you very much for the update there.
Two other al Qaeda suspects are also being interrogated. We turn now to retired Major General Don Shepperd to get an idea on what tactics could be used to make them and Mohammed talk. General Shepperd, you're in charge now of the interrogation here. What tactics would you use and what do you want to know?
MAJ. GEN. DONALD SHEPPERD (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Renay, one thing that's playing out here, we've been told early on by the president, secretary of defense and the attorney general that much of this war on terrorism was not military but law enforcement. This is law enforcement. The CIA and the FBI are experts at interrogation, as are many local law enforcement agencies across the nation.
Let me answer one question first. You don't torture these guys. That's not what gets you information. People will admit anything you want them to admit under torture. You put tremendous pressure on them and you convince them that the person basically that's interrogating them holds the key to their future and what will happen to them. And over time, you eventually hope that you can break them down, get pieces of information that can be corroborated by other sources, and get the information you want want. But it's not easy, Renay.
SAN MIGUEL: And you get them to play one against the other?
SHEPPERD: Absolutely, you play one against the other, you reveal information, either true or false, that other people may have given you, you try to play upon their feelings about what may happen to their subordinates if they don't talk and cooperate. All of those are fantastic. But torture certainly is not the answer.
SAN MIGUEL: How big a role does timing play in this? So soon after the shock of the arrest, one minute they're free and maybe planning other attacks, and the next, they are in custody.
SHEPPERD: Yes, you try to get as much information as possible, but getting them from the capture to the point of incarceration and then transferring them to other hands, taking them other places is all -- bad things can happen in all of that. You want to interrogate them all along the way. Everybody that's around them reports everything that they know, but these people are tough people, and they've got a lot of training in resisting interrogation, so this is not going to be easy. But it's good news that we've got him.
SAN MIGUEL: And as we heard from Mike Boettcher, they may give up initially perishable information, either lies or things that the American intelligence may already know. From a military perspective, though, what is it that you want to know from Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, who was a command and control kind of guy within al Qaeda?
SHEPPERD: Really, from a military standpoint, it's not that significant. We know what we have to do militarily, that's governed by what the president and the secretary of defense tell us to do in the way of military attacks. More important is the information he'd have on the civilian side, what is the next terrorist target, what are the techniques being used, who else is involved?
Slowly, the noose is closing. One by one, these guys are coming down. We'll probably never get them all and we can't dance a victory in the streets because we got the No. 3 man, because there are plenty of others out there. But this is really, really important.
SAN MIGUEL: All right, CNN military analyst, Major General Don Shepperd, thank you so much for your time.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired March 1, 2003 - 16:33 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: In case you're just joining us from your very busy weekend, we've had breaking news today that the No. 3 man, the military operations director of al Qaeda, Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, has been arrested in Pakistan. He's left that country and is heading to an unknown destination, likely to be interrogated by U.S. agents from the FBI and the CIA.
Joining us by videophone from Pakistan now is Islamabad bureau chief Ash-Har Quraishi. Ash-Har, take us through it. Exactly how did this arrest go down? It was just outside the Pakistani capital.
ASH-HAR QURAISHI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Carol. And this has been a tracking operation that's been ongoing for months now here in Pakistan. Khalid Shaikh Mohammed having confirmed to be hiding in Pakistan sometime last year.
Now, one of our CNN producers had actually met with him on two occasions, two occasions, once in central Pakistan and once in southern Pakistan. That was believed that on September 11, 2002, that Khalid Shaikh Mohammed was one of those people that escaped capture. That was a time that there was a raid that took place in the city of Karachi, when Ramzi Binalshibh was caught at that time. It is believed that he escaped at that point.
Now, what we're hearing from government officials is that there was a raid that took place here in the city of Quetta, here in Pakistan, very close to the Afghanistan border last week. Now, in that raid, they believe that they were looking for Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, they did not find him. It's believed that he escaped in that raid, but one person was picked up. Now, that person, according to our sources, was who led them to Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, who was hiding out in neighborhood Rawalpindi, which is about nine miles south here of the capital, Islamabad. Along with him, another man of Middle Eastern origin was captured in this raid. They are not saying very much about the identity of this man.
The Pakistani that was captured in this raid, making the total three, was a man named Ahmed Abdul Qadoos. Now, this man is somebody who is a member of Pakistan's largest religious political party here, the most organized party, Jamaat Islami. So officials right now are saying to us that Khalid Shaikh Mohammed is longer in Pakistan. They will not say exactly whose custody he's in, but it believed that he's in U.S. custody, but he is no longer in Pakistan -- Carol.
LIN: Ash-Har, to get from Quetta, which is on the southern border between Pakistan and Afghanistan, all the way up to Rawalpindi, I mean, that's a several hour flight and it's something like a 20-hour drive. So what does this tell you about how freely and easily top members of the al Qaeda regime are able to move around the country of Pakistan?
QURAISHI: Well, if you take into consideration how many al Qaeda operatives have been captured inside Pakistan over the last year, there have been over 400 suspected al Qaeda and Taliban that have been handed over to the United States by Pakistani authorities in joint raids, intelligence gathering by the FBI, by U.S. officials here in Pakistan, along with Pakistani security agencies, there were raids in Lahore and (UNINTELLIGIBLE) in the eastern portion in Pakistan, in March, in which one of the other big fishes, the al Qaeda top lieutenant Abu Zubaydah was caught.
So what we know for a fact is that these al Qaeda operatives, these top lieutenants have been found in cities as large as Lahore, Karachi, (UNINTELLIGIBLE), and now in neighboring Rawalpindi, which is just close to the capital. So they're able to travel freely. And the fact that he was found in the house of a mainstream political party member suggests that they have a lot more support here in Pakistan than maybe had been previously thought.
LIN: So what do your sources tell you that he might have been up to?
QURAISHI: Well, what we understand is that he had been moving around, but there's still very little information from our sources in the government right now as to what he was up to. The fact is that he has been on the run. He's been moving around quite a bit. If you look at where he's been over the past year, he's been in Karachi, he's been in Quetta and in Rawalpindi. Where else, we don't know.
But we understand, also, from our sources, intelligence sources tell us that the border with Afghanistan is very, very porous. The tribal belt there that runs from the northwestern frontier province into Baluchistan is something that is being patrolled by Pakistani troops. Of course, coalition forces on the other side, but it's still a very porous border, and the belief is that a lot of these remnants of the al Qaeda are able to cross back in and out.
LIN: It's like a 1,400-mile border. Very long indeed. Thank you very much, Ash-Har Quraishi, reporting live in Islamabad.
RENAY SAN MIGUEL, CNN ANCHOR: We want to go now to Suzanne Malveaux, White House correspondent. She's got reaction from President Bush on the arrest of Mohammed -- Suzanne.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: We have some more details coming from the White House, how all of this transpired and how the president was notified. We've been told by a White House spokeswoman that the CIA Director George Tenet actually called the National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice at midnight last night. She's at Camp David with the president, and he said, and I am quoting here, "it appears we've captured Khalid Shaikh Mohammed. We're pretty certain it is him." That was not confirmed until this morning. We're then told that at about 7:00 in the morning, National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice told the president from her cabin at Camp David. The president reacted, and I am quoting here, he said, "that's fantastic." Clearly, very good news for the administration. Everyone is quite pleased, very proud of this joint effort between Pakistani officials and U.S. officials in nabbing and capturing the mastermind of the September 11 attacks.
SAN MIGUEL: All right, Suzanne Malveaux, thank you very much for the update there.
Two other al Qaeda suspects are also being interrogated. We turn now to retired Major General Don Shepperd to get an idea on what tactics could be used to make them and Mohammed talk. General Shepperd, you're in charge now of the interrogation here. What tactics would you use and what do you want to know?
MAJ. GEN. DONALD SHEPPERD (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Renay, one thing that's playing out here, we've been told early on by the president, secretary of defense and the attorney general that much of this war on terrorism was not military but law enforcement. This is law enforcement. The CIA and the FBI are experts at interrogation, as are many local law enforcement agencies across the nation.
Let me answer one question first. You don't torture these guys. That's not what gets you information. People will admit anything you want them to admit under torture. You put tremendous pressure on them and you convince them that the person basically that's interrogating them holds the key to their future and what will happen to them. And over time, you eventually hope that you can break them down, get pieces of information that can be corroborated by other sources, and get the information you want want. But it's not easy, Renay.
SAN MIGUEL: And you get them to play one against the other?
SHEPPERD: Absolutely, you play one against the other, you reveal information, either true or false, that other people may have given you, you try to play upon their feelings about what may happen to their subordinates if they don't talk and cooperate. All of those are fantastic. But torture certainly is not the answer.
SAN MIGUEL: How big a role does timing play in this? So soon after the shock of the arrest, one minute they're free and maybe planning other attacks, and the next, they are in custody.
SHEPPERD: Yes, you try to get as much information as possible, but getting them from the capture to the point of incarceration and then transferring them to other hands, taking them other places is all -- bad things can happen in all of that. You want to interrogate them all along the way. Everybody that's around them reports everything that they know, but these people are tough people, and they've got a lot of training in resisting interrogation, so this is not going to be easy. But it's good news that we've got him.
SAN MIGUEL: And as we heard from Mike Boettcher, they may give up initially perishable information, either lies or things that the American intelligence may already know. From a military perspective, though, what is it that you want to know from Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, who was a command and control kind of guy within al Qaeda?
SHEPPERD: Really, from a military standpoint, it's not that significant. We know what we have to do militarily, that's governed by what the president and the secretary of defense tell us to do in the way of military attacks. More important is the information he'd have on the civilian side, what is the next terrorist target, what are the techniques being used, who else is involved?
Slowly, the noose is closing. One by one, these guys are coming down. We'll probably never get them all and we can't dance a victory in the streets because we got the No. 3 man, because there are plenty of others out there. But this is really, really important.
SAN MIGUEL: All right, CNN military analyst, Major General Don Shepperd, thank you so much for your time.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
