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CNN Live Saturday
Khalid Shaikh Mohammed Arrested in Pakistan
Aired March 01, 2003 - 18:02 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: CNN's Mike Boettcher has been on the terrorism beat since day one and he's been working his sources from Kuwait City.
MIKE BOETTCHER, CNN INT'L CORRESPONDENT: Well, Carol, this is a very, very important arrest. And source from Asia to Central Asia to this part of the world, to the United States, say do not overestimate at all the value of Khalid Shaikh Mohammed.
He is a person who knows every al Qaeda operative probably throughout the world. Now, this leaves, interestingly enough, Carol, Abu Masaab al-Zarkawi (ph) the man that Secretary of State Colin Powell mentioned in his U.N. address as the link between al Qaeda and Iraq, as the only top lieutenant from the old guard of al Qaeda as still at large.
The question is now, who is the new guard and how much damage will this do to al Qaeda? And the estimation is now, a measurable damage. If he was to talk about everything, al Qaeda could be virtually dismantled.
But, caution here, in the past, top al Qaeda officials who have been arrested have not talked much, Carol. But they will want to talk to him very much, because he is one man who might know where Osama bin Laden is hiding -- Carol.
LIN: You bet. But what is going to get him to talk? And how would authorities know that he was even telling the truth, Mike?
BOETTCHER: Well, they've created a very sophisticated database in terms of what they know from their sources and other interrogation reports. So, the can crosscheck. And this crosschecking puts pressure on people being interrogated. You say one thing, but you tell them this person, A, this person, B, and this person C, who you know said something different. Now let's hear the truth. And that's the way some of those interrogations go.
Will he talk, again, is an open question. But these people are trained -- the top people especially are trained to resist interrogation. And we'll just have to see what happens. These interrogations will be done in secret. And we'll just have to see the results. You'll know the results by further arrests that might be made and if Osama bin Laden is captured.
LIN: You bet. All right, thank you very much, Mike Boettcher reporting in live from Kuwait City. In the meantime, Khalid Shaikh Mohammed is seen, by the way, as the third guy in line for al Qaeda. He is their top military commander, the next best thing to bagging Osama bin Laden or Ayman al- Zawahiri.
Now, how is the White House reacting to new of his capture? And what does this mean for the war on terrorism. Let's go to Senior White House correspondent Suzanne Malveaux for that -- Suzanne.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Carol, this is a very big day for the White House. One senior administration officials said it is not just capturing a big fish, but a whale.
We have understood that is was CIA Director George Tenet who called National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice, at midnight last night, at Camp David. She is staying with the president over the weekend at Camp David.
And he said, it appears that we have captured Khalid Shaikh Mohammed; that we are fairly certain. It was this morning that was able to confirm that. That is when Dr. Rice, about 7 o'clock in the morning from her cabin to the president to give him the good news.
We are told his first reaction, he said, "That's fantastic!" Another senior administration official says he feels a great sense of gratitude. That this is a lot of hard work that went in with the Pakistanis on this particular capture.
We also have been told really that he is a critical, a key player in al Qaeda. That he has directed, as well as planned a lot of these operations, these terrorist operations. The administration very eager to see perhaps what they can learn from him.
The White House put out a statement earlier today, saying -- and I'm quoting here -- that "Khalid Shaikh Mohammed is one of Osama bin Laden's most senior and significant lieutenants, a key al Qaeda planner and the mastermind of the September 11 attacks."
Now, a senior administration official saying that, yes, not all things go well. There are some glitches in the plans with Pakistanis, but they say that despite the lulls that this really represents a great deal of progress. That this is a very successful day.
Carol, you can imagine, there is a lot of back slapping and handshakes this evening here at the White House.
LIN: You bet. And they needed a victory in the war on terrorism. Good for them.
Thank you very much, Suzanne Malveaux, live at the White House.
Well, Washington isn't the only one reacting tonight. Friends and family of 9/11 attack victims are also learning the news. The question is, does it make any difference to them? We asked CNN's Whitney Casey to look into that. And, Whitney, I'm just wondering what their reaction is because it looks like Khalid Shaikh Mohammed is not going to be coming to the United States anytime soon to face prosecution?
WHITNEY CASEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Carol it's interesting because nearly 3,000 people died that day on 9/11, 343 firefighters. So if you go into the firehouses and you ask them those names of the 343 they could almost tell you every single one of them.
But when I called around today and talked to a few firefighters that were very involved in 9/11 many of their brethren died, they know all of their names, they couldn't tell you one except Osama bin Laden. I asked them to name three top al Qaeda operatives, Osama bin Laden was the only name they could come up.
We also spoke with a woman of a firefighter that died. It was her son, Timothy Welty. This is what she had to say when I asked her what would you say if you were sitting in the interrogation room?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ADELE WELTY, MOTHER OF 9/11 VICTIM: I would want to know where all that rage and anger and hatred came from. I think we all need to understand that. And that's one good reason for having these people alive, so they can explain to us where does this come from. How can it be so deep, so searing? Because most of these people are not poor, they didn't grow up in poverty and deprivation. So, what is it that is making them so enraged that they don't care how many people they kill.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASEY: And many other of the family members that we talked with said that there has been sort of an evolution of the feelings of many of the victim's families. They have gone from trying to find out if their loved one was indeed down there, to getting identified, to getting memorials together.
Then to trying to figure out what should be at ground zero. Now that was just announced this past week. And now many say they are focused on the memorial. We spoke with Charles Wolf, who lost his wife, Catherine. She was on the 97th floor of Tower One.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHARLES WOLF, WIDOWER OF 9/11 VICTIM: There is only so much that we can do. I have a desire to move on with my life. OK? And I can't take my whole life and have it all wrapped up in one little thing.
It is more important for me to be able to -- I have half my life in front of me. OK? So, it is more important for me to do the things that are going to help those that are alive right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASEY: And to put it succinctly, Charles also said, that basically you can work at the stuff that you can make a difference on. And that's really all that the family members are saying right now. They really want to work at what they can make a difference on. And they feel that the government works on the other half, the investigation and the arrests -- Carol.
LIN: All right, and so far it seems to be working. Thank you very much, Whitney Casey, live in New York.
So, just who is Khalid Shaikh Mohammed? And what does his arrest mean for the war on terror? Eric Margolis is a leading authority on Islamic movements, and the author of the book, "War at the Top of the World." He joins us now from Palm Beach, Florida.
Eric, thank you very much for being here.
ERIC MARGOLIS, AUTHOR: Pleasure.
LIN: You know, it is interesting, as we have learned through the breaking news in the afternoon, we've learned a lot more about this man.
For example, our Jakarta bureau chief was saying that he was quite a playboy, that he loved the good life. He had apartments all over the world. And he was extremely charismatic and influential person. So, how is this going to impact al Qaeda?
MARGOLIS: Oh, it is a severe blow to al Qaeda. Al Qaeda is a small organization. It's numbers have been exaggerated. And this man was the chief of operations, of al Qaeda. And he was moving around. Whereas the two top men, bin Laden and Dr. Zawahiri, were in hiding. He still was able to have a certain amount of mobility. And he organized many of the individual cells of al Qaeda.
And most important of all, he was the link between al Qaeda and non-al Qaeda anti-American groups, who staged attacks against Western targets.
LIN: Well, Eric, let me as you this, because the al Qaeda network -- isn't it organized to be a series of independent cells. So, regardless of what happens to Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, don't these cells have the ability to activate themselves with their own plan of attack, without the leadership's knowledge or permission?
MARGOLIS: Theoretically, yes they do. But Khalid Shaikh Mohammed played a very important role in doing strategic planning and delivering financial support to groups -- and in rallying the groups, providing a moral back up for them. Because alone without contacts these people would not be very effective. So, this is a major blow to the organization.
LIN: So, what good does it do the United States, though, if he does not talk to the interrogators who are questioning him?
MARGOLIS: He will talk, because like other senior al Qaeda people, he'll be sent first to some Arab -- probably a friendly Arab state where he'll be tortured. And he will be tortured and sleep deprived and given drugs until he tells everything that he knows and he knows a great deal.
LIN: The United States says it does not use torture tactics, so how is that going to go down?
MARGOLIS: Well, my information is quite different. He will be squeezed relentlessly until he gives up everything that he know, I'm quite sure.
LIN: Where do you think he's gone?
MARGOLIS: He will probably be held in a friendly Arab country, maybe Jordan. But after that he will probably be taken -- sent to Guantanamo to be held, and probably to face an American military tribunal.
LIN: Do you think he's going to give Osama bin Laden?
MARGOLIS: He may not know where Osama bin Laden is. I doubt it, in fact, because when bin Laden fled Afghanistan he severed the links with the other members of the organization. He may know that he's in Pakistan.
And by the way, it's very interesting, because Khalid Shaikh Mohammed was caught right across the street, literally, from the head of the Pakistani army headquarters.
LIN: Right, right.
MARGOLIS: Rather embarrassing for Pakistan, when you think about it.
LIN: Yes, but also it has already been proven that the Pakistani government doesn't really have control over a lot of its own territory, legally and otherwise. But you're right, he was only nine miles from Islamabad, right across the street from the army headquarters. So, what does that tell you about how al Qaeda operates so freely inside that country?
MARGOLIS: There is -- look, most Pakistanis support al Qaeda, and are very angry at the United States. Al Qaeda has many friends in the Pakistani establishment, the military, the intelligence services, so they have a certain ability to move freely. I think bin Laden is still in Pakistan, too.
LIN: All right, well thank you very much, Eric Margolis. We'll see what happens.
MARGOLIS: You're welcome.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired March 1, 2003 - 18:02 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: CNN's Mike Boettcher has been on the terrorism beat since day one and he's been working his sources from Kuwait City.
MIKE BOETTCHER, CNN INT'L CORRESPONDENT: Well, Carol, this is a very, very important arrest. And source from Asia to Central Asia to this part of the world, to the United States, say do not overestimate at all the value of Khalid Shaikh Mohammed.
He is a person who knows every al Qaeda operative probably throughout the world. Now, this leaves, interestingly enough, Carol, Abu Masaab al-Zarkawi (ph) the man that Secretary of State Colin Powell mentioned in his U.N. address as the link between al Qaeda and Iraq, as the only top lieutenant from the old guard of al Qaeda as still at large.
The question is now, who is the new guard and how much damage will this do to al Qaeda? And the estimation is now, a measurable damage. If he was to talk about everything, al Qaeda could be virtually dismantled.
But, caution here, in the past, top al Qaeda officials who have been arrested have not talked much, Carol. But they will want to talk to him very much, because he is one man who might know where Osama bin Laden is hiding -- Carol.
LIN: You bet. But what is going to get him to talk? And how would authorities know that he was even telling the truth, Mike?
BOETTCHER: Well, they've created a very sophisticated database in terms of what they know from their sources and other interrogation reports. So, the can crosscheck. And this crosschecking puts pressure on people being interrogated. You say one thing, but you tell them this person, A, this person, B, and this person C, who you know said something different. Now let's hear the truth. And that's the way some of those interrogations go.
Will he talk, again, is an open question. But these people are trained -- the top people especially are trained to resist interrogation. And we'll just have to see what happens. These interrogations will be done in secret. And we'll just have to see the results. You'll know the results by further arrests that might be made and if Osama bin Laden is captured.
LIN: You bet. All right, thank you very much, Mike Boettcher reporting in live from Kuwait City. In the meantime, Khalid Shaikh Mohammed is seen, by the way, as the third guy in line for al Qaeda. He is their top military commander, the next best thing to bagging Osama bin Laden or Ayman al- Zawahiri.
Now, how is the White House reacting to new of his capture? And what does this mean for the war on terrorism. Let's go to Senior White House correspondent Suzanne Malveaux for that -- Suzanne.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Carol, this is a very big day for the White House. One senior administration officials said it is not just capturing a big fish, but a whale.
We have understood that is was CIA Director George Tenet who called National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice, at midnight last night, at Camp David. She is staying with the president over the weekend at Camp David.
And he said, it appears that we have captured Khalid Shaikh Mohammed; that we are fairly certain. It was this morning that was able to confirm that. That is when Dr. Rice, about 7 o'clock in the morning from her cabin to the president to give him the good news.
We are told his first reaction, he said, "That's fantastic!" Another senior administration official says he feels a great sense of gratitude. That this is a lot of hard work that went in with the Pakistanis on this particular capture.
We also have been told really that he is a critical, a key player in al Qaeda. That he has directed, as well as planned a lot of these operations, these terrorist operations. The administration very eager to see perhaps what they can learn from him.
The White House put out a statement earlier today, saying -- and I'm quoting here -- that "Khalid Shaikh Mohammed is one of Osama bin Laden's most senior and significant lieutenants, a key al Qaeda planner and the mastermind of the September 11 attacks."
Now, a senior administration official saying that, yes, not all things go well. There are some glitches in the plans with Pakistanis, but they say that despite the lulls that this really represents a great deal of progress. That this is a very successful day.
Carol, you can imagine, there is a lot of back slapping and handshakes this evening here at the White House.
LIN: You bet. And they needed a victory in the war on terrorism. Good for them.
Thank you very much, Suzanne Malveaux, live at the White House.
Well, Washington isn't the only one reacting tonight. Friends and family of 9/11 attack victims are also learning the news. The question is, does it make any difference to them? We asked CNN's Whitney Casey to look into that. And, Whitney, I'm just wondering what their reaction is because it looks like Khalid Shaikh Mohammed is not going to be coming to the United States anytime soon to face prosecution?
WHITNEY CASEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Carol it's interesting because nearly 3,000 people died that day on 9/11, 343 firefighters. So if you go into the firehouses and you ask them those names of the 343 they could almost tell you every single one of them.
But when I called around today and talked to a few firefighters that were very involved in 9/11 many of their brethren died, they know all of their names, they couldn't tell you one except Osama bin Laden. I asked them to name three top al Qaeda operatives, Osama bin Laden was the only name they could come up.
We also spoke with a woman of a firefighter that died. It was her son, Timothy Welty. This is what she had to say when I asked her what would you say if you were sitting in the interrogation room?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ADELE WELTY, MOTHER OF 9/11 VICTIM: I would want to know where all that rage and anger and hatred came from. I think we all need to understand that. And that's one good reason for having these people alive, so they can explain to us where does this come from. How can it be so deep, so searing? Because most of these people are not poor, they didn't grow up in poverty and deprivation. So, what is it that is making them so enraged that they don't care how many people they kill.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASEY: And many other of the family members that we talked with said that there has been sort of an evolution of the feelings of many of the victim's families. They have gone from trying to find out if their loved one was indeed down there, to getting identified, to getting memorials together.
Then to trying to figure out what should be at ground zero. Now that was just announced this past week. And now many say they are focused on the memorial. We spoke with Charles Wolf, who lost his wife, Catherine. She was on the 97th floor of Tower One.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHARLES WOLF, WIDOWER OF 9/11 VICTIM: There is only so much that we can do. I have a desire to move on with my life. OK? And I can't take my whole life and have it all wrapped up in one little thing.
It is more important for me to be able to -- I have half my life in front of me. OK? So, it is more important for me to do the things that are going to help those that are alive right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASEY: And to put it succinctly, Charles also said, that basically you can work at the stuff that you can make a difference on. And that's really all that the family members are saying right now. They really want to work at what they can make a difference on. And they feel that the government works on the other half, the investigation and the arrests -- Carol.
LIN: All right, and so far it seems to be working. Thank you very much, Whitney Casey, live in New York.
So, just who is Khalid Shaikh Mohammed? And what does his arrest mean for the war on terror? Eric Margolis is a leading authority on Islamic movements, and the author of the book, "War at the Top of the World." He joins us now from Palm Beach, Florida.
Eric, thank you very much for being here.
ERIC MARGOLIS, AUTHOR: Pleasure.
LIN: You know, it is interesting, as we have learned through the breaking news in the afternoon, we've learned a lot more about this man.
For example, our Jakarta bureau chief was saying that he was quite a playboy, that he loved the good life. He had apartments all over the world. And he was extremely charismatic and influential person. So, how is this going to impact al Qaeda?
MARGOLIS: Oh, it is a severe blow to al Qaeda. Al Qaeda is a small organization. It's numbers have been exaggerated. And this man was the chief of operations, of al Qaeda. And he was moving around. Whereas the two top men, bin Laden and Dr. Zawahiri, were in hiding. He still was able to have a certain amount of mobility. And he organized many of the individual cells of al Qaeda.
And most important of all, he was the link between al Qaeda and non-al Qaeda anti-American groups, who staged attacks against Western targets.
LIN: Well, Eric, let me as you this, because the al Qaeda network -- isn't it organized to be a series of independent cells. So, regardless of what happens to Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, don't these cells have the ability to activate themselves with their own plan of attack, without the leadership's knowledge or permission?
MARGOLIS: Theoretically, yes they do. But Khalid Shaikh Mohammed played a very important role in doing strategic planning and delivering financial support to groups -- and in rallying the groups, providing a moral back up for them. Because alone without contacts these people would not be very effective. So, this is a major blow to the organization.
LIN: So, what good does it do the United States, though, if he does not talk to the interrogators who are questioning him?
MARGOLIS: He will talk, because like other senior al Qaeda people, he'll be sent first to some Arab -- probably a friendly Arab state where he'll be tortured. And he will be tortured and sleep deprived and given drugs until he tells everything that he knows and he knows a great deal.
LIN: The United States says it does not use torture tactics, so how is that going to go down?
MARGOLIS: Well, my information is quite different. He will be squeezed relentlessly until he gives up everything that he know, I'm quite sure.
LIN: Where do you think he's gone?
MARGOLIS: He will probably be held in a friendly Arab country, maybe Jordan. But after that he will probably be taken -- sent to Guantanamo to be held, and probably to face an American military tribunal.
LIN: Do you think he's going to give Osama bin Laden?
MARGOLIS: He may not know where Osama bin Laden is. I doubt it, in fact, because when bin Laden fled Afghanistan he severed the links with the other members of the organization. He may know that he's in Pakistan.
And by the way, it's very interesting, because Khalid Shaikh Mohammed was caught right across the street, literally, from the head of the Pakistani army headquarters.
LIN: Right, right.
MARGOLIS: Rather embarrassing for Pakistan, when you think about it.
LIN: Yes, but also it has already been proven that the Pakistani government doesn't really have control over a lot of its own territory, legally and otherwise. But you're right, he was only nine miles from Islamabad, right across the street from the army headquarters. So, what does that tell you about how al Qaeda operates so freely inside that country?
MARGOLIS: There is -- look, most Pakistanis support al Qaeda, and are very angry at the United States. Al Qaeda has many friends in the Pakistani establishment, the military, the intelligence services, so they have a certain ability to move freely. I think bin Laden is still in Pakistan, too.
LIN: All right, well thank you very much, Eric Margolis. We'll see what happens.
MARGOLIS: You're welcome.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
