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CNN Live Saturday

Interview With Bill Pullela

Aired March 15, 2003 - 14:45   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


RENAY SAN MIGUEL, CNN ANCHOR: Pope John Paul II has put his personal prestige into the mix to head off war with Iraq. Just today, the pontiff sat down with the envoy he sent to Washington 10 days ago to urge President Bush to find a diplomatic way out of the Iraq stalemate.
Let's talk right now about the pope's role in the Iraq crisis, with Bill Pullela. He's the Vatican correspondent for Reuters. He's also the co-author of a new book "Pope John Paul II: Reaching out Across Borders." Bill Pullela joins us now from New York. Bill, thanks for joining us today. We appreciate your coming.

BILL PULLELA, REUTERS VATICAN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Renay. My pleasure.

SAN MIGUEL: The pope has made it clear all along that all parties here should back away from war. It is not looking like that is going to be the case. Does the pope feel like -- do your sources tell you the pope feels like he has not been heard? Has he resigned himself to a war?

PULLELA: Absolutely. It would be very much out of character for the pope -- absolutely not -- it would be very much out of character for the pope to resign himself to a war. The problem is that the -- according to Roman Catholic Church teaching, the current conflict if we do get to that point, does not meet all the criteria for what the Roman Catholic Church would consider a just war. And this is what the problem has been between the Vatican and the Bush administration.

Now, the most important one that it doesn't meet is that the Vatican is still not convinced that conflict -- that we've reached the point where war is really the last resort. They want diplomacy to continue and the U.N. inspectors to have more time to carry out their work.

SAN MIGUEL: How much influence has the pope had in the past on averting wars, getting leaders to think about diplomacy rather than war?

PULLELA: He definitely does get people to think, because, I mean, if you think, tomorrow, President Bush will be meeting with Blair and Aznar in the Azores. Now, both Blair and Aznar within the past two weeks beat a path to the pope's door and went to talk to him at the Vatican. Now, they each wanted to give their point of view. Now, Blair also extended his visit to Italy by one day to see the pope. And that's quite significant. So he does have influence, because they are trying to win him over.

On the other side, the pope has also met recently with Tariq Aziz, the deputy prime minister of Iraq, and the German foreign minister.

Now, one of the things I think needs to be said is that in this situation now, no one should consider the pope anti-American. He's anti-war. And there's a huge difference there, Renay.

SAN MIGUEL: But I mean, even going back in history, the past conflicts to Kosovo, the first Persian Gulf War, even beyond that -- have popes ever had a chance to turn things around?

PULLELA: I don't know whether he's had a chance to turn things around, but that's not what he's -- he's certainly trying. It's also important to remember that the U.S. reaction to September 11, that is the intervention in Afghanistan, was supported by the Vatican, because in that case the Vatican did consider that a response to an aggression, and the pope was actually devastated by what happened on September 11. And so that conflict did have Vatican's support.

SAN MIGUEL: You mentioned that. Let me go ahead and read what he said at a special peace meeting (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Italy in 2002, after the 9/11 attacks. He said: "Violence never again, war never again, terrorism never again. In the name of God, may every religion bring upon the earth justice and peace, forgiveness and life, and love." Now, you're saying that he realized that he did support the Operation Enduring Freedom following September 11. Does the pope also realize that it seems in this world evil has gone to the next level, and in more cases than just September 11, war may be the only way to achieve justice?

PULLELA: Well, I can't speak for him here obviously, north (ph) of the Vatican, I'm a reporter. But I think that basically, you would expect someone in his position to hope against hope, to really try and tell his people -- and he has been trying to tell his people -- you've got to push until the very, very last minute to try and avoid conflict, because he is fond of saying that with war, everything is lost and with peace everything can be gained.

As you said just before, in your introduction, Renay, he received a report from Cardinal Loggi (ph), who met with President Bush about 10 days ago or so. And when Cardinal Loggi (ph) came out of that meeting with President Bush, he also underscored one of the fundamental points that the Vatican believes in, and that any conflict has to be -- in their point of view -- something has to be done under the U.N. auspices. And Cardinal Loggi (ph) that day used a very strong word, and he did it himself, and that word was that any conflict outside the U.N. would be considered illegal.

SAN MIGUEL: We will have to leave it there. Bill Pullela is the Vatican correspondent for Reuters, co-author of the book, "Pope John Paul II: Reaching out Across Borders." Thank you for joining us today. PULLELA: Thank you very much, Renay.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired March 15, 2003 - 14:45   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RENAY SAN MIGUEL, CNN ANCHOR: Pope John Paul II has put his personal prestige into the mix to head off war with Iraq. Just today, the pontiff sat down with the envoy he sent to Washington 10 days ago to urge President Bush to find a diplomatic way out of the Iraq stalemate.
Let's talk right now about the pope's role in the Iraq crisis, with Bill Pullela. He's the Vatican correspondent for Reuters. He's also the co-author of a new book "Pope John Paul II: Reaching out Across Borders." Bill Pullela joins us now from New York. Bill, thanks for joining us today. We appreciate your coming.

BILL PULLELA, REUTERS VATICAN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Renay. My pleasure.

SAN MIGUEL: The pope has made it clear all along that all parties here should back away from war. It is not looking like that is going to be the case. Does the pope feel like -- do your sources tell you the pope feels like he has not been heard? Has he resigned himself to a war?

PULLELA: Absolutely. It would be very much out of character for the pope -- absolutely not -- it would be very much out of character for the pope to resign himself to a war. The problem is that the -- according to Roman Catholic Church teaching, the current conflict if we do get to that point, does not meet all the criteria for what the Roman Catholic Church would consider a just war. And this is what the problem has been between the Vatican and the Bush administration.

Now, the most important one that it doesn't meet is that the Vatican is still not convinced that conflict -- that we've reached the point where war is really the last resort. They want diplomacy to continue and the U.N. inspectors to have more time to carry out their work.

SAN MIGUEL: How much influence has the pope had in the past on averting wars, getting leaders to think about diplomacy rather than war?

PULLELA: He definitely does get people to think, because, I mean, if you think, tomorrow, President Bush will be meeting with Blair and Aznar in the Azores. Now, both Blair and Aznar within the past two weeks beat a path to the pope's door and went to talk to him at the Vatican. Now, they each wanted to give their point of view. Now, Blair also extended his visit to Italy by one day to see the pope. And that's quite significant. So he does have influence, because they are trying to win him over.

On the other side, the pope has also met recently with Tariq Aziz, the deputy prime minister of Iraq, and the German foreign minister.

Now, one of the things I think needs to be said is that in this situation now, no one should consider the pope anti-American. He's anti-war. And there's a huge difference there, Renay.

SAN MIGUEL: But I mean, even going back in history, the past conflicts to Kosovo, the first Persian Gulf War, even beyond that -- have popes ever had a chance to turn things around?

PULLELA: I don't know whether he's had a chance to turn things around, but that's not what he's -- he's certainly trying. It's also important to remember that the U.S. reaction to September 11, that is the intervention in Afghanistan, was supported by the Vatican, because in that case the Vatican did consider that a response to an aggression, and the pope was actually devastated by what happened on September 11. And so that conflict did have Vatican's support.

SAN MIGUEL: You mentioned that. Let me go ahead and read what he said at a special peace meeting (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Italy in 2002, after the 9/11 attacks. He said: "Violence never again, war never again, terrorism never again. In the name of God, may every religion bring upon the earth justice and peace, forgiveness and life, and love." Now, you're saying that he realized that he did support the Operation Enduring Freedom following September 11. Does the pope also realize that it seems in this world evil has gone to the next level, and in more cases than just September 11, war may be the only way to achieve justice?

PULLELA: Well, I can't speak for him here obviously, north (ph) of the Vatican, I'm a reporter. But I think that basically, you would expect someone in his position to hope against hope, to really try and tell his people -- and he has been trying to tell his people -- you've got to push until the very, very last minute to try and avoid conflict, because he is fond of saying that with war, everything is lost and with peace everything can be gained.

As you said just before, in your introduction, Renay, he received a report from Cardinal Loggi (ph), who met with President Bush about 10 days ago or so. And when Cardinal Loggi (ph) came out of that meeting with President Bush, he also underscored one of the fundamental points that the Vatican believes in, and that any conflict has to be -- in their point of view -- something has to be done under the U.N. auspices. And Cardinal Loggi (ph) that day used a very strong word, and he did it himself, and that word was that any conflict outside the U.N. would be considered illegal.

SAN MIGUEL: We will have to leave it there. Bill Pullela is the Vatican correspondent for Reuters, co-author of the book, "Pope John Paul II: Reaching out Across Borders." Thank you for joining us today. PULLELA: Thank you very much, Renay.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com