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CNN Live Saturday

Interview With John Timoney

Aired May 10, 2003 - 14:20   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Karen Lovell was shot in the head. There is still no word on her condition just yet.
In that case, authorities had to make a split second decision whether to shoot the suspect. Authorities faced a similar situation in that university standoff in Cleveland, Ohio last night. Well, to explain how law enforcement makes these calls, here's John Timoney. He is the police chief of Miami. Good to see you, Chief Timoney.

JOHN TIMONEY, POLICE CHIEF, MIAMI: Good to see you, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: Well, we have got two cases that all unfolded within just a few hours apart. Let's begin with the case of the mother and the toddler in Tennessee. No one wants to be up against that kind of a decision to make involving those police officers. How do you go about making a decision on whether to try to take out or injure the person who is holding a toddler in custody there, not knowing just how the toddler might react or where the bullets may fly?

TIMONEY: Well, if you look at the picture, it was pretty close range. And so it really was, even though there was a child there, it was, if you want to say, safe shot, or as safe as it could be. But the sheriff there was left with no choice. The woman had escaped earlier with a police car and a police officer's gun, and actually shot at a police officer. And so she had already used the gun once already. And she looked like she was about to kill the child. And you know, the officer had to make a split second decision.

In my career, I've seen them go either way, where the police wait too long, and in this case, a parent killed two kids, and so you never know if you're going to be right or wrong. But you make the best judgment. And there, I think the sheriff made the right call. Clearly the right call.

WHITFIELD: So often in situations like that, meaning when you have an armed person holding someone against their will, investigators or the police there, SWAT team members will try to negotiate, try to verbally open up some kind of lines of communication. But at what point do you make a decision and what are the variables that are included here when you say, you know what, it's action that is going to help end this standoff and not necessarily the words?

TIMONEY: You see, in this case, here, it was spontaneous. She came out of a wooded area. She had been hiding there for hours. There had never been a dialogue established. And so there you're really playing it as it goes. And clearly, she used the gun before. Most of the time, you try and establish a dialogue. And even though the person's armed, if the hostage doesn't appear to be in immediate danger, the more you can dialogue, the more you can drag it out, the better off it often is. It's not a perfect science. Sometimes they do go wrong.

WHITFIELD: In the case of Ohio, almost seven hours elapsed between when that gunman went into that school and when SWAT team members decided to take a shot, injuring the gunman, the alleged gunman in that case. Completely different scenario, but do you see some real similarities in these two standoff cases?

TIMONEY: One required almost immediate reaction. In the college one, it was much more difficult. He shot two people really at the outset (ph) and then ran in. There was 70 people, 80 people in there. And so there was a need not to jeopardize other citizens in the college. And so there, they tried to establish a dialogue. Of course, after about an hour this guy started shooting again. The SWAT teams, once they assembled, went in there. And it's a pretty complex building, from what I understand, it is not a standard building, it's got very curved hallways. So it's hard to get a good view. And so the guy continued shooting at the SWAT officers as they took that building over, quite literally room by room. An extraordinary effort.

WHITFIELD: Yes, both of these cases underscoring the kind of split decision that have to take place there in these cases.

Miami Police Chief John Timoney, thanks very much for joining us. Appreciate it.

TIMONEY: Fredricka, thank you very much. Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired May 10, 2003 - 14:20   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Karen Lovell was shot in the head. There is still no word on her condition just yet.
In that case, authorities had to make a split second decision whether to shoot the suspect. Authorities faced a similar situation in that university standoff in Cleveland, Ohio last night. Well, to explain how law enforcement makes these calls, here's John Timoney. He is the police chief of Miami. Good to see you, Chief Timoney.

JOHN TIMONEY, POLICE CHIEF, MIAMI: Good to see you, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: Well, we have got two cases that all unfolded within just a few hours apart. Let's begin with the case of the mother and the toddler in Tennessee. No one wants to be up against that kind of a decision to make involving those police officers. How do you go about making a decision on whether to try to take out or injure the person who is holding a toddler in custody there, not knowing just how the toddler might react or where the bullets may fly?

TIMONEY: Well, if you look at the picture, it was pretty close range. And so it really was, even though there was a child there, it was, if you want to say, safe shot, or as safe as it could be. But the sheriff there was left with no choice. The woman had escaped earlier with a police car and a police officer's gun, and actually shot at a police officer. And so she had already used the gun once already. And she looked like she was about to kill the child. And you know, the officer had to make a split second decision.

In my career, I've seen them go either way, where the police wait too long, and in this case, a parent killed two kids, and so you never know if you're going to be right or wrong. But you make the best judgment. And there, I think the sheriff made the right call. Clearly the right call.

WHITFIELD: So often in situations like that, meaning when you have an armed person holding someone against their will, investigators or the police there, SWAT team members will try to negotiate, try to verbally open up some kind of lines of communication. But at what point do you make a decision and what are the variables that are included here when you say, you know what, it's action that is going to help end this standoff and not necessarily the words?

TIMONEY: You see, in this case, here, it was spontaneous. She came out of a wooded area. She had been hiding there for hours. There had never been a dialogue established. And so there you're really playing it as it goes. And clearly, she used the gun before. Most of the time, you try and establish a dialogue. And even though the person's armed, if the hostage doesn't appear to be in immediate danger, the more you can dialogue, the more you can drag it out, the better off it often is. It's not a perfect science. Sometimes they do go wrong.

WHITFIELD: In the case of Ohio, almost seven hours elapsed between when that gunman went into that school and when SWAT team members decided to take a shot, injuring the gunman, the alleged gunman in that case. Completely different scenario, but do you see some real similarities in these two standoff cases?

TIMONEY: One required almost immediate reaction. In the college one, it was much more difficult. He shot two people really at the outset (ph) and then ran in. There was 70 people, 80 people in there. And so there was a need not to jeopardize other citizens in the college. And so there, they tried to establish a dialogue. Of course, after about an hour this guy started shooting again. The SWAT teams, once they assembled, went in there. And it's a pretty complex building, from what I understand, it is not a standard building, it's got very curved hallways. So it's hard to get a good view. And so the guy continued shooting at the SWAT officers as they took that building over, quite literally room by room. An extraordinary effort.

WHITFIELD: Yes, both of these cases underscoring the kind of split decision that have to take place there in these cases.

Miami Police Chief John Timoney, thanks very much for joining us. Appreciate it.

TIMONEY: Fredricka, thank you very much. Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com