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CNN Live Saturday

WMD: Burden of Proof

Aired July 12, 2003 - 16:01   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


RHONDA SCHAFFLER, CNN ANCHOR: A top U.S. intelligence official taking the blame for a now notorious passage in President Bush's State of the Union address. CNN national correspondent Bob Franken joins us from Washington to look at this issue. Hello, Bob.
BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hello, and the press secretary of the White House, Ari Fleischer, says the matter is now closed, but put that in the wishful thinking category. There's a flurry of comment coming, primarily from Democrats, saying there has to be more accountability. There have been some suggestions that the director of the CIA would resign. A spokesman for him, by the way, says he will not resign.

The CIA director yesterday ended the day by putting out a statement in which he accepted blame for the gaffe that resulted in the president's State of the Union message, and the claim, citing the British government, that the Iraq -- the country of Iraq was trying to buy uranium from Africa, which has now been discredited to some degree.

Here's what Tenet said -- "First, CIA approved the president's State of the Union address before it was delivered. Second, I am responsible for the approval process in my agency. And third, the president had every reason to believe that the text presented to him was sound. These 16 words should never have been included in the text written for the president."

Well, among the people who that apparently makes very, very happy is the president himself.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I've got confidence in George Tenet, I've got confidence in the men and women who work at the CIA, and I continue to look forward to working with them, and as we win this war on terror.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FRANKEN: But now the president is coming back to a bit of political warfare that has erupted over his State of the Union message, which should be amplified tomorrow as we watch everybody have his comment -- have his say on the Sunday talk shows -- Rhonda.

SCHAFFLER: Bob, a couple of issues here. How particularly concerned should we be about the intelligence operations based on this mishap, if you will?

FRANKEN: Well, there have been criticisms over time about the abilities of the U.S. intelligence agencies. That is one of the underlying themes in the investigation that's going onto the September 11 attacks. So I don't think that this exaggerates any claims or amplifies any claims and any criticisms. They've been there for a long time.

SCHAFFLER: Bob Franken, thanks so much. We'll see you later, Bob.

As Bob made reference to, a political aspect as well, some Democrats have accused the president of deliberately misleading the nation and are calling for an investigation. CNN congressional correspondent Jonathan Karl reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JONATHAN KARL, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): CIA director George Tenet's mea culpa came hours after the top Republican on the Intelligence Committee placed the blame squarely on Tenet for allowing false information to get into the president's State of the Union address.

SEN. PAT ROBERTS (R), KANSAS: The director of Central Intelligence is the principal adviser to the president on intelligence matters. He should have told the president. He failed. He failed to do so.

KARL: Tenet's attempt to take the blame is not likely to satisfy Democrats who say the buck stops with the president.

HOWARD DEAN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This is beginning to sound a little like Watergate. They start throwing people over the side, but the deeper you go, the more interesting it will be. It's very clear that it may be George Tenet's responsibility, but that information also existed in the State Department. It also existed in the vice president's office. So they will not get away with simply throwing George Tenet over the side.

REP. RICHARD GEPHARDT (D-MO), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: In the end, the president is responsible for the information that is put out to the American people, wherever he got it from.

KARL: In closed hearings, the Senate Intelligence Committee has been investigating prewar intelligence on Iraq's alleged weapons of mass destruction. It is now clear, there will be public hearings as well and that the false information in the president's speech will be a part of the investigation.

ROBERTS: I think, in September, we'll have public hearings. And we will get to the bottom of this. And we will let the chips fall where they may.

KARL (on camera): George Tenet will remain on the hot seat next week. He is expected to appear before the Senate Intelligence Committee to answer questions about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.

Jonathan Karl, CNN, Capitol Hill.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCHAFFLER: Let's talk more about this controversy with our guest now, Ron Brownstein is a writer for "The L.A. Times." He joins us from Washington. Ron, good to see you.

RON BROWNSTEIN, THE LOS ANGELES TIMES: Hi, Rhonda.

SCHAFFLER: There's a couple of issues we should tackle first, and let's start with public opinion. A "Newsweek" poll, new one just out, shows that 45 percent believe the Bush administration misinterpreted or misanalyzed the weapons of mass destruction report; 38 percent believe this was done purposely, a purposeful misleading of the public. How will those poll results be perceived in Washington?

BROWNSTEIN: Well, and very similar to the finding in the CNN Gallup Poll last week that had 37 percent feeling they deliberately mislead the public. There's a "Washington Post" poll today out as well that shows half the country thinks they at least exaggerated the evidence.

Look, this is rising as an issue. And there is a feedback loop here. You have Democrats becoming more aggressive in questioning the pre-war intelligence, and for that matter, the planning for the post- war reconstruction of Iraq, and as those arguments are raised through the media, you see the effect on public opinion. And as the public opinion moves, politicians become more confident in pressing -- critics become more confident in pressing their criticism against the administration. So both of these things are moving in the same direction, which suggests that we're going to have this issue with us in an escalating fashion for a while.

SCHAFFLER: Is this the issue that Democrats have been waiting for? They've been looking for something.

BROWNSTEIN: Well, I think you're seeing criticism now emerging on two distinct fronts, which are reinforcing each other. First you have the Democratic presidential candidates and many leading Democrats in Congress, as we've been discussing, questioning the pre-war intelligence, the intelligence the president relied upon in making his case for war, and arguing that we need an independent investigation. It's sort of an echo of the Republican demands for special prosecutors on many fronts during the Clinton years.

Now, secondly, we have growing criticism over the past week, a big speech by John Kerry, a presidential candidate, a big op-ed piece by Joe Lieberman, another presidential candidate, Howard Dean, as well as John Edwards and Dick Gephardt, all questioning the way the administration has approached the post-war reconstruction of Iraq, arguing that we've got to bring in allies to a larger role, NATO and the U.N. That would be the best way, they maintain, to reduce the threat to American troops. So you've got two distinct lines of criticism here, which in many ways reinforce each other, and I think that they encourage the Democrats to believe that, yes, this can try to score some points and to raise some questions after being on the defensive on this issue for most of this year.

SCHAFFLER: Ron, who besides the president is going to be satisfied with the answer that we got from George Tenet and the president's acceptance?

BROWNSTEIN: Well, that's a very good question. I think that certainly, as you saw in the Howard Dean interview with Jon Karl, many Democrats are going to argue that the questions about the accuracy of the claim in the State of the Union on the uranium purchases in Africa went beyond the CIA. The former diplomat who was sent over by the State Department said he believes the information was available in the State Department and in the vice president's office as well.

And when Howard Dean was asked on -- Howard Dean on Thursday called for anyone who knew about this before it went into the State of the Union to be asked to resign, and when asked if he was including the vice president in that, he said very pointedly, "anyone." So I do think that you're going to see this issue continue to be raised.

A critical question is how far Republicans in Congress, how much heat they feel and whether they feel the need to go forward with a more independent investigation and more thorough, open investigation than what the intelligence committees have been conducting so far.

SCHAFFLER: I'm wondering if it gets too hot in the kitchen here, we might have a situation where George Tenet is forced to resign.

BROWNSTEIN: Well, he's a holdover from the Clinton administration; there aren't going to be many Republicans who are terribly upset is he is forced to go. And that is certainly a possibility. Although the administration doesn't like to admit wrong, this is not a president who likes to be pushed into making personnel decisions, you look through his whole career, but that could happen.

SCHAFFLER: And Ron, how is this going to be perceived in the international community? There was so much criticism and debate before before the war against Iraq even began. That's continuing somewhat. Now this. What happens?

BROWNSTEIN: I think the implication of your question is right. I think this is very damaging internationally, in terms of our ability to rally the world around another claim against another rogue nation based on our intelligence. The failure to find the weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, even more than these questions about uranium purchases in Africa really do create a hurdle for us when we are trying to convince other nations down the road. And it's something that either this president or a future president is going to have to deal with as we try to rally international support for what is likely to be further confrontations in this long-term war on terror.

SCHAFFLER: Ron Brownstein, "Los Angeles Times," thanks for spending the afternoon with us. Appreciate it.

BROWNSTEIN: Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired July 12, 2003 - 16:01   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RHONDA SCHAFFLER, CNN ANCHOR: A top U.S. intelligence official taking the blame for a now notorious passage in President Bush's State of the Union address. CNN national correspondent Bob Franken joins us from Washington to look at this issue. Hello, Bob.
BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hello, and the press secretary of the White House, Ari Fleischer, says the matter is now closed, but put that in the wishful thinking category. There's a flurry of comment coming, primarily from Democrats, saying there has to be more accountability. There have been some suggestions that the director of the CIA would resign. A spokesman for him, by the way, says he will not resign.

The CIA director yesterday ended the day by putting out a statement in which he accepted blame for the gaffe that resulted in the president's State of the Union message, and the claim, citing the British government, that the Iraq -- the country of Iraq was trying to buy uranium from Africa, which has now been discredited to some degree.

Here's what Tenet said -- "First, CIA approved the president's State of the Union address before it was delivered. Second, I am responsible for the approval process in my agency. And third, the president had every reason to believe that the text presented to him was sound. These 16 words should never have been included in the text written for the president."

Well, among the people who that apparently makes very, very happy is the president himself.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I've got confidence in George Tenet, I've got confidence in the men and women who work at the CIA, and I continue to look forward to working with them, and as we win this war on terror.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FRANKEN: But now the president is coming back to a bit of political warfare that has erupted over his State of the Union message, which should be amplified tomorrow as we watch everybody have his comment -- have his say on the Sunday talk shows -- Rhonda.

SCHAFFLER: Bob, a couple of issues here. How particularly concerned should we be about the intelligence operations based on this mishap, if you will?

FRANKEN: Well, there have been criticisms over time about the abilities of the U.S. intelligence agencies. That is one of the underlying themes in the investigation that's going onto the September 11 attacks. So I don't think that this exaggerates any claims or amplifies any claims and any criticisms. They've been there for a long time.

SCHAFFLER: Bob Franken, thanks so much. We'll see you later, Bob.

As Bob made reference to, a political aspect as well, some Democrats have accused the president of deliberately misleading the nation and are calling for an investigation. CNN congressional correspondent Jonathan Karl reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JONATHAN KARL, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): CIA director George Tenet's mea culpa came hours after the top Republican on the Intelligence Committee placed the blame squarely on Tenet for allowing false information to get into the president's State of the Union address.

SEN. PAT ROBERTS (R), KANSAS: The director of Central Intelligence is the principal adviser to the president on intelligence matters. He should have told the president. He failed. He failed to do so.

KARL: Tenet's attempt to take the blame is not likely to satisfy Democrats who say the buck stops with the president.

HOWARD DEAN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This is beginning to sound a little like Watergate. They start throwing people over the side, but the deeper you go, the more interesting it will be. It's very clear that it may be George Tenet's responsibility, but that information also existed in the State Department. It also existed in the vice president's office. So they will not get away with simply throwing George Tenet over the side.

REP. RICHARD GEPHARDT (D-MO), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: In the end, the president is responsible for the information that is put out to the American people, wherever he got it from.

KARL: In closed hearings, the Senate Intelligence Committee has been investigating prewar intelligence on Iraq's alleged weapons of mass destruction. It is now clear, there will be public hearings as well and that the false information in the president's speech will be a part of the investigation.

ROBERTS: I think, in September, we'll have public hearings. And we will get to the bottom of this. And we will let the chips fall where they may.

KARL (on camera): George Tenet will remain on the hot seat next week. He is expected to appear before the Senate Intelligence Committee to answer questions about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.

Jonathan Karl, CNN, Capitol Hill.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCHAFFLER: Let's talk more about this controversy with our guest now, Ron Brownstein is a writer for "The L.A. Times." He joins us from Washington. Ron, good to see you.

RON BROWNSTEIN, THE LOS ANGELES TIMES: Hi, Rhonda.

SCHAFFLER: There's a couple of issues we should tackle first, and let's start with public opinion. A "Newsweek" poll, new one just out, shows that 45 percent believe the Bush administration misinterpreted or misanalyzed the weapons of mass destruction report; 38 percent believe this was done purposely, a purposeful misleading of the public. How will those poll results be perceived in Washington?

BROWNSTEIN: Well, and very similar to the finding in the CNN Gallup Poll last week that had 37 percent feeling they deliberately mislead the public. There's a "Washington Post" poll today out as well that shows half the country thinks they at least exaggerated the evidence.

Look, this is rising as an issue. And there is a feedback loop here. You have Democrats becoming more aggressive in questioning the pre-war intelligence, and for that matter, the planning for the post- war reconstruction of Iraq, and as those arguments are raised through the media, you see the effect on public opinion. And as the public opinion moves, politicians become more confident in pressing -- critics become more confident in pressing their criticism against the administration. So both of these things are moving in the same direction, which suggests that we're going to have this issue with us in an escalating fashion for a while.

SCHAFFLER: Is this the issue that Democrats have been waiting for? They've been looking for something.

BROWNSTEIN: Well, I think you're seeing criticism now emerging on two distinct fronts, which are reinforcing each other. First you have the Democratic presidential candidates and many leading Democrats in Congress, as we've been discussing, questioning the pre-war intelligence, the intelligence the president relied upon in making his case for war, and arguing that we need an independent investigation. It's sort of an echo of the Republican demands for special prosecutors on many fronts during the Clinton years.

Now, secondly, we have growing criticism over the past week, a big speech by John Kerry, a presidential candidate, a big op-ed piece by Joe Lieberman, another presidential candidate, Howard Dean, as well as John Edwards and Dick Gephardt, all questioning the way the administration has approached the post-war reconstruction of Iraq, arguing that we've got to bring in allies to a larger role, NATO and the U.N. That would be the best way, they maintain, to reduce the threat to American troops. So you've got two distinct lines of criticism here, which in many ways reinforce each other, and I think that they encourage the Democrats to believe that, yes, this can try to score some points and to raise some questions after being on the defensive on this issue for most of this year.

SCHAFFLER: Ron, who besides the president is going to be satisfied with the answer that we got from George Tenet and the president's acceptance?

BROWNSTEIN: Well, that's a very good question. I think that certainly, as you saw in the Howard Dean interview with Jon Karl, many Democrats are going to argue that the questions about the accuracy of the claim in the State of the Union on the uranium purchases in Africa went beyond the CIA. The former diplomat who was sent over by the State Department said he believes the information was available in the State Department and in the vice president's office as well.

And when Howard Dean was asked on -- Howard Dean on Thursday called for anyone who knew about this before it went into the State of the Union to be asked to resign, and when asked if he was including the vice president in that, he said very pointedly, "anyone." So I do think that you're going to see this issue continue to be raised.

A critical question is how far Republicans in Congress, how much heat they feel and whether they feel the need to go forward with a more independent investigation and more thorough, open investigation than what the intelligence committees have been conducting so far.

SCHAFFLER: I'm wondering if it gets too hot in the kitchen here, we might have a situation where George Tenet is forced to resign.

BROWNSTEIN: Well, he's a holdover from the Clinton administration; there aren't going to be many Republicans who are terribly upset is he is forced to go. And that is certainly a possibility. Although the administration doesn't like to admit wrong, this is not a president who likes to be pushed into making personnel decisions, you look through his whole career, but that could happen.

SCHAFFLER: And Ron, how is this going to be perceived in the international community? There was so much criticism and debate before before the war against Iraq even began. That's continuing somewhat. Now this. What happens?

BROWNSTEIN: I think the implication of your question is right. I think this is very damaging internationally, in terms of our ability to rally the world around another claim against another rogue nation based on our intelligence. The failure to find the weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, even more than these questions about uranium purchases in Africa really do create a hurdle for us when we are trying to convince other nations down the road. And it's something that either this president or a future president is going to have to deal with as we try to rally international support for what is likely to be further confrontations in this long-term war on terror.

SCHAFFLER: Ron Brownstein, "Los Angeles Times," thanks for spending the afternoon with us. Appreciate it.

BROWNSTEIN: Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com