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CNN Live Saturday

New Poll Shows Growing Concern Over U.S. Role In Iraq

Aired September 20, 2003 - 12:13   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: A recent CNN-"Time" Gallup Poll shows increasing concern about the U.S. role in Iraq and if the president has a clear plan. The poll, 10 days ago, indicates most people don't believe the president has a clear plan on Iraq and President Bush's approval ratings are lower since the war in March.
We want to talk to our guests about that this afternoon. Armstrong Williams is a syndicated columnist and host of a television show "The Right Side with Armstrong Williams," he is in Washington.

Hello to you, Mr. Williams.

ARMSTRONG WILLIAMS, "THE RIGHT SIDE WITH ARMSTRONG WILLIAMS": Hello.

COLLINS: And, in San Francisco, Norman Solomon, co-author of "Target Iraq: What the News Media Didn't Tell You."

Hello to you, as well.

NORMAN SOLOMON, "TARGET IRAQ: WHAT THE NEWS MEDIA DIDN'T TELL YOU": Hello.

COLLINS: I want to go ahead and start with Mr. Williams.

Is the administration on the right track?

WILLIAMS: Yes. The regime of Saddam Hussein and -- was a threat to world security and had to be dealt with. I mean, f you look at President Bush's approval ratings and compare them to former President Clinton's approval ratings at this time, his is much higher. This is expected. Even his pollsters predicted his numbers would be reduced. But, the president cannot base his foreign policy in his fight -- his fight against terrorism based on poll numbers. He has to show leadership even though his numbers may suffer. In the end, it's no different than what happened with Truman when he had be -- rebuild Europe and they had to put the Marshall Plan in place. There were a lot of critics during that time, but in the end, I think most of observer and many of the president's critics, especially, in the -- will realize that what he was doing, the process eventually was in the best interest of the United States and the world.

COLLINS: Mr. Solomon, your thoughts.

SOLOMON: Yeah, well being perhaps, a little bit less unpopular than Bill Clinton right at the time of impeachment is kind of a high jump over low standards. After all, that was a president who said, "It depends on what the definition of "is" is."

We have an administration now, that is losing confidence and trust from the American public precisely because of the lies and deceptions that have continued to come out of the White House and the administration. One recent example, last Sunday, Dick Cheney, the vice president said, and I have a quote, here, he said, "I have no financial interest in Halliburton of any kind and haven't had now, for over three years," unquote. Very interesting if true, but false, we found out two days later that in the last couple of years, Dick Cheney has received, each year more than $150,000 from Halliburton. He will continue to do so over the next three years and he's holding stock options of $433,000 from Halliburton. Meanwhile, we have troops on the ground in Iraq, many of them are angry, they've been told to keep their mouths shut. Some of them won't do that, as their family members are also speaking out. And I close with this very important point, The "Peoria Journal Star," in Peoria, Illinois, just published, as a hometown newspaper, an article from Tim Predmore, he's been in the U.S. Army for five years, he's with the 101st Airborne in Iraq. He said, and I quote, "I can no longer justify my service for what I believe to be half-truths and bold lies." So you know...

COLLINS: Obviously just one soldier's opinion, there. Mr. Williams, your thoughts on these things.

SOLOMON: Well, of many soldiers, as well.

COLLINS: Mr. Williams your turn.

WILLIAMS: Well, it's interesting listening to Mr. Solomon when he talks about lies and how he hoodwinked Sean Penn to go to Iraq and how he was embarrassed...

SOLOMON: It isn't about you and me. Let's get to the subject, here, my friend.

WILLIAMS: ...and humiliated. I mean as you sit and...

COLLINS: Excuse me, Mr. Solomon,

SOLOMON: Oh, that is pathetic.

COLLINS: Let's give Mr. Williams a chance, if we could please, so that you both can be heard.

WILLIAMS: As you can sit around and talk about lies and this is not about Vice President Cheney and Halliburton. This issue's about Iraq and whether the president has a plan in place that will stop the soldiers that are dying on almost a daily basis. Everybody's heart is broken by this, especially this administration, and when I talk of poll numbers, I'm not just talking just about President Clinton. If you look at any president, at this point, in his administration, compared to President Bush -- President Bush's numbers are very high. This is a very difficult situation. This president and White House has had to eat crow and concede they needed the United Nations and their support in order to make this situation work. They cannot go it alone, they're willing to admit that, they're willing to correct their mistakes.

COLLINS: So, gentlemen, let me jump in here, and talk about that. Let's talk about the U.N. resolution, now. What kind of resolution is likely to come out of all of this? If any -- Mr. Williams.

SOLOMON: Well, I think the resolution -- the resolution that's going to come out will be a little bit of political cover, but as the "New York Times" noted, in a very buried observation in its news pages a few days ago, the U.N. resolution and deployment of some troops from other parts of the world in Iraq will not change the fact that the overwhelming majority of the U.S. troops in Iraq will continue to be American and they will be in the most dangerous parts of Iraq. They will continue to get shot up because the rose petals, the flowers, the greetings, and huge appreciation that we were told the occupiers would be greeted with haven't materialized...

COLLINS: So, Mr. Solomon, what are...

SOLOMON: ...so the entire theory of this occupation is wrong.

COLLINS: ...what are your suggestions? What are your solutions to what should be going on in Iraq, right now?

SOLOMON: Yeah, my suggestion is that we compel the Bush administration to no longer insist on controlling Iraq and its oil. Get the U.S. troops out as part of getting the U.N. troops in. As long as we refuse to do that -- as long as the White House refuses to do that, then the U.S. troops will continue to be shot up, because they're not welcome there.

WILLIAMS: You know, I...

COLLINS: Mr. Williams, let me ask you a quick question, if I could, before we have to wrap this up, today. France and Germany continue to be critical, we're hearing more about that today at the tri-lateral summit, of the U.S. and its effort. Your reaction to that -- what is it about for them?

WILLIAMS: Well, you know, obviously, France and Germany have financial interests in Iraq, and they had much at stake, and when the United States and Britain its allies invade Iraq, much of their financial interest was lost. But, I think if you can see, from the meetings with Prime Minister Tony Blair in Berlin that the Germans are coming around. Thy understand the role of the U.N., they understand they have to commit more forces to support the United States and cause less exposure for our troops. There's no doubt that our troops are in a very dangerous situation, no one doubts that. We're trying to do everything that we can to eliminate this exposure.

But, I think, the fact they are meeting with President Bush, next week, here, at the U.N., Mr. Schrader and Mr. Chirac, is an indication that their willing to put much of the past behind them, and do what is in the best interest of all our troops that are in Iraq bearing the burden of this situation. And, I think the U.N. and these key leaders should be given the benefit of the doubt until they show us otherwise.

COLLINS: Unfortunately, gentlemen that is all the time that we have. We really appreciate you being with us this morning, the both of you.

WILLIAMS: Thank you.

COLLINS: Armstrong Williams and Norman Solomon. Thank you, gentlemen.

SOLOMON: Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired September 20, 2003 - 12:13   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: A recent CNN-"Time" Gallup Poll shows increasing concern about the U.S. role in Iraq and if the president has a clear plan. The poll, 10 days ago, indicates most people don't believe the president has a clear plan on Iraq and President Bush's approval ratings are lower since the war in March.
We want to talk to our guests about that this afternoon. Armstrong Williams is a syndicated columnist and host of a television show "The Right Side with Armstrong Williams," he is in Washington.

Hello to you, Mr. Williams.

ARMSTRONG WILLIAMS, "THE RIGHT SIDE WITH ARMSTRONG WILLIAMS": Hello.

COLLINS: And, in San Francisco, Norman Solomon, co-author of "Target Iraq: What the News Media Didn't Tell You."

Hello to you, as well.

NORMAN SOLOMON, "TARGET IRAQ: WHAT THE NEWS MEDIA DIDN'T TELL YOU": Hello.

COLLINS: I want to go ahead and start with Mr. Williams.

Is the administration on the right track?

WILLIAMS: Yes. The regime of Saddam Hussein and -- was a threat to world security and had to be dealt with. I mean, f you look at President Bush's approval ratings and compare them to former President Clinton's approval ratings at this time, his is much higher. This is expected. Even his pollsters predicted his numbers would be reduced. But, the president cannot base his foreign policy in his fight -- his fight against terrorism based on poll numbers. He has to show leadership even though his numbers may suffer. In the end, it's no different than what happened with Truman when he had be -- rebuild Europe and they had to put the Marshall Plan in place. There were a lot of critics during that time, but in the end, I think most of observer and many of the president's critics, especially, in the -- will realize that what he was doing, the process eventually was in the best interest of the United States and the world.

COLLINS: Mr. Solomon, your thoughts.

SOLOMON: Yeah, well being perhaps, a little bit less unpopular than Bill Clinton right at the time of impeachment is kind of a high jump over low standards. After all, that was a president who said, "It depends on what the definition of "is" is."

We have an administration now, that is losing confidence and trust from the American public precisely because of the lies and deceptions that have continued to come out of the White House and the administration. One recent example, last Sunday, Dick Cheney, the vice president said, and I have a quote, here, he said, "I have no financial interest in Halliburton of any kind and haven't had now, for over three years," unquote. Very interesting if true, but false, we found out two days later that in the last couple of years, Dick Cheney has received, each year more than $150,000 from Halliburton. He will continue to do so over the next three years and he's holding stock options of $433,000 from Halliburton. Meanwhile, we have troops on the ground in Iraq, many of them are angry, they've been told to keep their mouths shut. Some of them won't do that, as their family members are also speaking out. And I close with this very important point, The "Peoria Journal Star," in Peoria, Illinois, just published, as a hometown newspaper, an article from Tim Predmore, he's been in the U.S. Army for five years, he's with the 101st Airborne in Iraq. He said, and I quote, "I can no longer justify my service for what I believe to be half-truths and bold lies." So you know...

COLLINS: Obviously just one soldier's opinion, there. Mr. Williams, your thoughts on these things.

SOLOMON: Well, of many soldiers, as well.

COLLINS: Mr. Williams your turn.

WILLIAMS: Well, it's interesting listening to Mr. Solomon when he talks about lies and how he hoodwinked Sean Penn to go to Iraq and how he was embarrassed...

SOLOMON: It isn't about you and me. Let's get to the subject, here, my friend.

WILLIAMS: ...and humiliated. I mean as you sit and...

COLLINS: Excuse me, Mr. Solomon,

SOLOMON: Oh, that is pathetic.

COLLINS: Let's give Mr. Williams a chance, if we could please, so that you both can be heard.

WILLIAMS: As you can sit around and talk about lies and this is not about Vice President Cheney and Halliburton. This issue's about Iraq and whether the president has a plan in place that will stop the soldiers that are dying on almost a daily basis. Everybody's heart is broken by this, especially this administration, and when I talk of poll numbers, I'm not just talking just about President Clinton. If you look at any president, at this point, in his administration, compared to President Bush -- President Bush's numbers are very high. This is a very difficult situation. This president and White House has had to eat crow and concede they needed the United Nations and their support in order to make this situation work. They cannot go it alone, they're willing to admit that, they're willing to correct their mistakes.

COLLINS: So, gentlemen, let me jump in here, and talk about that. Let's talk about the U.N. resolution, now. What kind of resolution is likely to come out of all of this? If any -- Mr. Williams.

SOLOMON: Well, I think the resolution -- the resolution that's going to come out will be a little bit of political cover, but as the "New York Times" noted, in a very buried observation in its news pages a few days ago, the U.N. resolution and deployment of some troops from other parts of the world in Iraq will not change the fact that the overwhelming majority of the U.S. troops in Iraq will continue to be American and they will be in the most dangerous parts of Iraq. They will continue to get shot up because the rose petals, the flowers, the greetings, and huge appreciation that we were told the occupiers would be greeted with haven't materialized...

COLLINS: So, Mr. Solomon, what are...

SOLOMON: ...so the entire theory of this occupation is wrong.

COLLINS: ...what are your suggestions? What are your solutions to what should be going on in Iraq, right now?

SOLOMON: Yeah, my suggestion is that we compel the Bush administration to no longer insist on controlling Iraq and its oil. Get the U.S. troops out as part of getting the U.N. troops in. As long as we refuse to do that -- as long as the White House refuses to do that, then the U.S. troops will continue to be shot up, because they're not welcome there.

WILLIAMS: You know, I...

COLLINS: Mr. Williams, let me ask you a quick question, if I could, before we have to wrap this up, today. France and Germany continue to be critical, we're hearing more about that today at the tri-lateral summit, of the U.S. and its effort. Your reaction to that -- what is it about for them?

WILLIAMS: Well, you know, obviously, France and Germany have financial interests in Iraq, and they had much at stake, and when the United States and Britain its allies invade Iraq, much of their financial interest was lost. But, I think if you can see, from the meetings with Prime Minister Tony Blair in Berlin that the Germans are coming around. Thy understand the role of the U.N., they understand they have to commit more forces to support the United States and cause less exposure for our troops. There's no doubt that our troops are in a very dangerous situation, no one doubts that. We're trying to do everything that we can to eliminate this exposure.

But, I think, the fact they are meeting with President Bush, next week, here, at the U.N., Mr. Schrader and Mr. Chirac, is an indication that their willing to put much of the past behind them, and do what is in the best interest of all our troops that are in Iraq bearing the burden of this situation. And, I think the U.N. and these key leaders should be given the benefit of the doubt until they show us otherwise.

COLLINS: Unfortunately, gentlemen that is all the time that we have. We really appreciate you being with us this morning, the both of you.

WILLIAMS: Thank you.

COLLINS: Armstrong Williams and Norman Solomon. Thank you, gentlemen.

SOLOMON: Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com