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CNN Live Saturday
Interview With Mamoun Fandy
Aired September 27, 2003 - 14:06 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JUDY FORTIN, CNN ANCHOR: Ahmed Chalabi denies a rift with the Bush administration over the timetable for turning over power in Iraq, but that's not the way the story is being told in Washington. Some officials in the Bush administration say Chalabi, a member of the Iraqi Governing Council and a Pentagon favorite, has ruffled feathers at the White House over this issue.
Mamoun Fandy is with us now from Washington to talk more about this issue. He's a senior fellow with the U.S. Institute for Peace.
Thank you so much for joining us.
MAMOUN FANDY, U.S. INSTITUTE FOR PEACE: Thank you.
FORTIN: Ahmed Chalabi says that it's really just a dispute, but others say it's much more serious than that. Tell us how it got started in the first place.
FANDY: Well, I mean, the whole story is not about Ahmed Chalabi as much as about the sort of tug of war between various parts of the administration, between the Pentagon, that wants to have total control of Iraq, and the State Department, that knows the region and wants to give proper procedures to the transfer of power. But Chalabi, since he is the favorite of the Pentagon, they're trying to push his cause, and this is what's causing the problems.
FORTIN: What is chalabi doing to aggravate the situation?
FANDY: Well, Chalabi is really -- he's a very smart man and savvy politician. He knew that the Arabs do not like the situation there. The Europeans do not like what America is doing, at least in terms of the kind of handling of contracts in Iraq and their economic role in the reconstruction of Iraq.
So he thought he would capitalize on all of this, while he's the president of the interim council of Iraq, and then probably become the first president of Iraq.
FORTIN: And what about President Bush? What is he doing to create further distance in the situation?
FANDY: Well, I think Chalabi and his group feel that there is an anger and a situation on the ground in Iraq. He's turning away from the idea that the Americans are liberators to now the Americans are being occupiers, and wants to help the -- stabilize the situation. But the White House has a long-term plan that's really sort of even beyond two years for being there in Iraq. And in that sense, Chalabi is nervous and wants to have more control and more say according to a timetable of their own choosing.
FORTIN: There's a new "Newsweek" poll out talking about when the U.S. should turn control of Iraq over to the Iraqis. And some interesting figures there showing 72 percent favor that happening. Your reaction to the poll and the numbers that you're seeing there?
FANDY: I mean, it's obvious that, you know, many Iraqis in the recent poll believe that it is worth it. But they feel that, you know, the reconstruction process is not going well. And at the whole price they paid for getting rid of Saddam, everything is worth it. But they are also wondering how can a superpower be unable to turn on electric generators and provide for security?
FORTIN: Where does all of this leave Paul Bremer, the U.S. civilian administrator in Iraq? It puts him between a rock and a hard place, doesn't it?
FANDY: Well, I mean, even people in the council see Paul Bremer as the king of Baghdad. I mean, they said it flatly to news agencies that they see him as the king of Baghdad, the man with the checkbook. He's in total control, and they feel that he did not fulfill his promise when the council was first established, whereby he put it in writing that he would hand certain powers to the council over time, especially on issues of security.
FORTIN: Let's end by talking about the future. What can we expect then to see between Ahmed Chalabi and the Bush administration in terms of how they'll work together and move forward?
FANDY: I think they have to move forward, because there is no alternative. Now, it's much more important than Ahmed Chalabi is. First of all, the neighborhood, the neighborhood itself sees if America fails in Iraq it is bad for them. But they feel that even if America succeeds and builds a democracy in Iraq, it's really worse for them.
So the administration cannot get stuck with Chalabi, because Chalabi is also in the neighborhood seen as somebody who has fled with money from the bank in Jordan, and he's not the best image, according to the State Department. Although, according to the Pentagon, he is their man.
FORTIN: Mamoun Fandy, thank you so much for your time today. He is the senior fellow with the U.S. Institute for Peace. It was nice talking with you today.
FANDY: Nice talking to you.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired September 27, 2003 - 14:06 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JUDY FORTIN, CNN ANCHOR: Ahmed Chalabi denies a rift with the Bush administration over the timetable for turning over power in Iraq, but that's not the way the story is being told in Washington. Some officials in the Bush administration say Chalabi, a member of the Iraqi Governing Council and a Pentagon favorite, has ruffled feathers at the White House over this issue.
Mamoun Fandy is with us now from Washington to talk more about this issue. He's a senior fellow with the U.S. Institute for Peace.
Thank you so much for joining us.
MAMOUN FANDY, U.S. INSTITUTE FOR PEACE: Thank you.
FORTIN: Ahmed Chalabi says that it's really just a dispute, but others say it's much more serious than that. Tell us how it got started in the first place.
FANDY: Well, I mean, the whole story is not about Ahmed Chalabi as much as about the sort of tug of war between various parts of the administration, between the Pentagon, that wants to have total control of Iraq, and the State Department, that knows the region and wants to give proper procedures to the transfer of power. But Chalabi, since he is the favorite of the Pentagon, they're trying to push his cause, and this is what's causing the problems.
FORTIN: What is chalabi doing to aggravate the situation?
FANDY: Well, Chalabi is really -- he's a very smart man and savvy politician. He knew that the Arabs do not like the situation there. The Europeans do not like what America is doing, at least in terms of the kind of handling of contracts in Iraq and their economic role in the reconstruction of Iraq.
So he thought he would capitalize on all of this, while he's the president of the interim council of Iraq, and then probably become the first president of Iraq.
FORTIN: And what about President Bush? What is he doing to create further distance in the situation?
FANDY: Well, I think Chalabi and his group feel that there is an anger and a situation on the ground in Iraq. He's turning away from the idea that the Americans are liberators to now the Americans are being occupiers, and wants to help the -- stabilize the situation. But the White House has a long-term plan that's really sort of even beyond two years for being there in Iraq. And in that sense, Chalabi is nervous and wants to have more control and more say according to a timetable of their own choosing.
FORTIN: There's a new "Newsweek" poll out talking about when the U.S. should turn control of Iraq over to the Iraqis. And some interesting figures there showing 72 percent favor that happening. Your reaction to the poll and the numbers that you're seeing there?
FANDY: I mean, it's obvious that, you know, many Iraqis in the recent poll believe that it is worth it. But they feel that, you know, the reconstruction process is not going well. And at the whole price they paid for getting rid of Saddam, everything is worth it. But they are also wondering how can a superpower be unable to turn on electric generators and provide for security?
FORTIN: Where does all of this leave Paul Bremer, the U.S. civilian administrator in Iraq? It puts him between a rock and a hard place, doesn't it?
FANDY: Well, I mean, even people in the council see Paul Bremer as the king of Baghdad. I mean, they said it flatly to news agencies that they see him as the king of Baghdad, the man with the checkbook. He's in total control, and they feel that he did not fulfill his promise when the council was first established, whereby he put it in writing that he would hand certain powers to the council over time, especially on issues of security.
FORTIN: Let's end by talking about the future. What can we expect then to see between Ahmed Chalabi and the Bush administration in terms of how they'll work together and move forward?
FANDY: I think they have to move forward, because there is no alternative. Now, it's much more important than Ahmed Chalabi is. First of all, the neighborhood, the neighborhood itself sees if America fails in Iraq it is bad for them. But they feel that even if America succeeds and builds a democracy in Iraq, it's really worse for them.
So the administration cannot get stuck with Chalabi, because Chalabi is also in the neighborhood seen as somebody who has fled with money from the bank in Jordan, and he's not the best image, according to the State Department. Although, according to the Pentagon, he is their man.
FORTIN: Mamoun Fandy, thank you so much for your time today. He is the senior fellow with the U.S. Institute for Peace. It was nice talking with you today.
FANDY: Nice talking to you.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
