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CNN Live Saturday

National Guard In Trouble After Thousands Refuse To Quit

Aired September 27, 2003 - 18:10   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: Missions like the war in Iraq wouldn't be possible without civilian soldiers. In fact, the past two years have seen the biggest mobilization of National Guard and Reservists since World War II. But now thousands are threatening to quit.
Michelle Flournoy is a senior adviser at the Center for Strategic and International Studies. She also worked for the Defense Department.

Michelle, good to see you. Thank you very much for being here this evening.

MICHELLE FLOURNOY, CENTER FOR STRATEGIC AND INTERNATIONAL STUDIES: My pleasure.

LIN: One wife told a story that when her husband comes home from Iraq that three quarters of his unit is threatening to quit. They are simply sick of these long deployments. From what you hear about these families' complaints, is it as bad as they say?

FLOURNOY: Well, I certainly believe that from their personal experience they must be feeling the stresses and strains of these deployments. It goes without saying that these folks, the Reservists, the Guard, are critical to mission success. They're making an enormous, an enormous contribution. But I think there are two reasons for the stress.

First, is we have a Cold War force that's basically doing post- Cold War missions. And there are certainly mismatches between supply and demand. And so every time we run out of certain types of capabilities, we have to dip into the reserves. And we're probably doing that more often than we should want to be doing that. So there's -- we need to look at some floor structure changes, I think, over time.

The second issue has already been mentioned, and that's predictability. Soldiers, and Reservists in particular, need to know when are they going to be deployed and when are they coming home. And when you don't have that predictability, it's much, much harder on the families. So those are the two things we have to work on long term.

LIN: Well, is the Pentagon listening?

FLOURNOY: I think so. I think the Army is already studying the question of force mix, trying to look at ways to increase capability in areas that are constantly deployed, like engineers and military police, civil affairs, those kinds of capabilities. And they're also acutely aware of some of the morale issues that have come from the unpredictability. And they're looking at ways to better manage the force to try to create greater predictability.

LIN: Would you -- Michelle, would you say...

FLOURNOY: If they know when they're going to be deployed they can do a lot to prepare for that and manage it.

LIN: Right. Would you say that these forces are being mismanaged, then?

FLOURNOY: No, I wouldn't say that. I just think that the requirements in Iraq, the security requirements, have exceeded what people initially expected. And we're in a scramble mode to try to make sure that we have the forces there that we need there. But I think, over time, you'll see this smooth out. A clear rotation plan will be put in place and will reinstate a degree of predictability that will help things enormously.

LIN: But for these families, you know, they look at the numbers. I mean, so far, at least 29 National Guard and 18 Reservists killed in Iraq. These families are looking at a situation where they're told their husbands and wives will be gone for four to six months. Suddenly, they're told, no, it might be a year.

Then they're told, we're not sure, and nor can we guarantee their safety. Because these are not professional soldiers. I mean, these are people that we probably work with in our everyday lives.

FLOURNOY: Yes, but they have made a commitment to sign up to the Reserves. They are tremendously loyal and patriotic individuals. They have been trained to do the jobs that they do in a wartime or post-war environment.

I think the hardship is very real. But most of the forces that have gone over there from the Reserves and Guards, many of them are volunteers. And so they've chosen to do this in service of their country. But I do think after all of this is over we do need to reexamine the contract we make with Reservists and ask the question: do we need to have more forms of support, different types of contractual arrangements?

Because there's really -- most people are experiencing something between the extreme of an active duty force on the one hand, and the weekend warrior. The weekend warriors are giving a lot more than their weekends at this point.

LIN: You bet. They're giving their lives in some cases.

FLOURNOY: Absolutely.

LIN: Thank you very much, Michelle Flournoy, with the Center for Strategic and International Studies.

FLOURNOY: Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired September 27, 2003 - 18:10   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: Missions like the war in Iraq wouldn't be possible without civilian soldiers. In fact, the past two years have seen the biggest mobilization of National Guard and Reservists since World War II. But now thousands are threatening to quit.
Michelle Flournoy is a senior adviser at the Center for Strategic and International Studies. She also worked for the Defense Department.

Michelle, good to see you. Thank you very much for being here this evening.

MICHELLE FLOURNOY, CENTER FOR STRATEGIC AND INTERNATIONAL STUDIES: My pleasure.

LIN: One wife told a story that when her husband comes home from Iraq that three quarters of his unit is threatening to quit. They are simply sick of these long deployments. From what you hear about these families' complaints, is it as bad as they say?

FLOURNOY: Well, I certainly believe that from their personal experience they must be feeling the stresses and strains of these deployments. It goes without saying that these folks, the Reservists, the Guard, are critical to mission success. They're making an enormous, an enormous contribution. But I think there are two reasons for the stress.

First, is we have a Cold War force that's basically doing post- Cold War missions. And there are certainly mismatches between supply and demand. And so every time we run out of certain types of capabilities, we have to dip into the reserves. And we're probably doing that more often than we should want to be doing that. So there's -- we need to look at some floor structure changes, I think, over time.

The second issue has already been mentioned, and that's predictability. Soldiers, and Reservists in particular, need to know when are they going to be deployed and when are they coming home. And when you don't have that predictability, it's much, much harder on the families. So those are the two things we have to work on long term.

LIN: Well, is the Pentagon listening?

FLOURNOY: I think so. I think the Army is already studying the question of force mix, trying to look at ways to increase capability in areas that are constantly deployed, like engineers and military police, civil affairs, those kinds of capabilities. And they're also acutely aware of some of the morale issues that have come from the unpredictability. And they're looking at ways to better manage the force to try to create greater predictability.

LIN: Would you -- Michelle, would you say...

FLOURNOY: If they know when they're going to be deployed they can do a lot to prepare for that and manage it.

LIN: Right. Would you say that these forces are being mismanaged, then?

FLOURNOY: No, I wouldn't say that. I just think that the requirements in Iraq, the security requirements, have exceeded what people initially expected. And we're in a scramble mode to try to make sure that we have the forces there that we need there. But I think, over time, you'll see this smooth out. A clear rotation plan will be put in place and will reinstate a degree of predictability that will help things enormously.

LIN: But for these families, you know, they look at the numbers. I mean, so far, at least 29 National Guard and 18 Reservists killed in Iraq. These families are looking at a situation where they're told their husbands and wives will be gone for four to six months. Suddenly, they're told, no, it might be a year.

Then they're told, we're not sure, and nor can we guarantee their safety. Because these are not professional soldiers. I mean, these are people that we probably work with in our everyday lives.

FLOURNOY: Yes, but they have made a commitment to sign up to the Reserves. They are tremendously loyal and patriotic individuals. They have been trained to do the jobs that they do in a wartime or post-war environment.

I think the hardship is very real. But most of the forces that have gone over there from the Reserves and Guards, many of them are volunteers. And so they've chosen to do this in service of their country. But I do think after all of this is over we do need to reexamine the contract we make with Reservists and ask the question: do we need to have more forms of support, different types of contractual arrangements?

Because there's really -- most people are experiencing something between the extreme of an active duty force on the one hand, and the weekend warrior. The weekend warriors are giving a lot more than their weekends at this point.

LIN: You bet. They're giving their lives in some cases.

FLOURNOY: Absolutely.

LIN: Thank you very much, Michelle Flournoy, with the Center for Strategic and International Studies.

FLOURNOY: Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com