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Is The Media Overreacting To Rush Limbaugh's Statements Or Was It Racist?

Aired October 04, 2003 - 14:36   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


LINDA STOUFFER, CNN ANCHOR: And now on to something else: the words of commentator Rush Limbaugh. Well, he drew increased attention with a statement this week about Philadelphia Eagles' quarterback Donovan McNabb. I guess increased attention is kind of an understatement there. But was it racist, or are some people overreacting this week?
Well, we want to debate this issue. So radio talk show host Joe Madison joins us, and conservative commentator Armstrong Williams is here now, too, in our Washington studios. Welcome, gentlemen, to you both.

JOE MADISON, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Thank you.

ARMSTRONG WILLIAMS, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Thank you.

STOUFFER: All right, Joe, let me start with you. Do you think those comments were racist or not?

MADISON: You know my friend Mary Wright Edelman (ph), with the Children's Fund, has coined a phrase, saying that it takes a village to raise a child. A lot of children heard the statement. We just have to make sure it's not the village idiot.

What he said was idiotic. McNabb is a player who, in his first year, was runner-up for most valuable player. He went to two NFL championships, and he was elected by his peers to three consecutive pro bowls.

I know it's First Amendment right, but the great thing about the First Amendment is that we can respond to the village idiot even if that village idiot is the king of talk radio. It was an idiotic statement that had racial overtones. And he knows it, and the world knows it.

STOUFFER: And, Armstrong, I'm betting you have some reaction to that. I'm going to turn it over to you now. What do you think?

WILLIAMS: Well, the earlier report you showed at the hospital in Pennsylvania was absolutely racism, and the hospital should be ashamed of itself for compromising and giving in to that. What Rush Limbaugh said, as my colleague, Joe Madison, just expressed, he just used bad words.

I mean, he was trying to make a point and he injected race into making that point. If he just said that he felt Donovan McNabb was overrated, his being overrated or underrated had nothing to do with race. But I think the point that he also tried to make, which I think is a valid point, given the history of this country and blacks being -- were not -- the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) did not feel that blacks were equipped to play the quarterback slot, which was racist. But times have changed, and because we have more black quarterbacks in the league who are doing very well, many people in the media outside of the media, black and white alike, root for these people to do very well because of this history.

That's not racism. It's just that we have an understanding of our past. And we really want them to do well, because it shows progress in this country.

MADISON: Well, Armstrong really doesn't understand racism. The reality is that it is because of racism. It is because there are people who, in fact, have been left out.

You know, I'm old enough to remember when you couldn't be a quarterback because you were black. Now, the argument is, you're only a quarterback because you are black. Do you know if a white -- a black commentator had said when Larry Bird had some difficult times adrought, that the only reason he's playing in the NBA is because the owners and the "liberal media" needs white players to sell tickets to the NBA, he wouldn't be working either.

The pretext of the statement somehow suggests that McNabb is an affirmative action quarterback. Well, I played football in high school and college at Washington University, and the one thing about sports is that it is an example of how affirmative action works when there's a level playing field and you have rules that have to be followed by all participants.

So his argument was a pretext to somehow suggest that, because McNabb was black, he's being held there by the coach, by the owner of Philadelphia, and by the fans. That's why the owners, the coach, the fans, and his teammates are outraged at this idiotic statement that has serious racial overtones that are well over 40 years old, and I'm glad he's gone.

This is the same Rush Limbaugh, by the way, who said on his radio show, to a black listener, that -- who care what's black people think. They only make up 12 percent of the population.

STOUFFER: And, Joe, I want to bring Armstrong in here. You raise an interesting point about how times are different. And, Armstrong, Rush Limbaugh said that he was amazed that this whole thing was controversial. Were you?

WILLIAMS: Yes, actually, I was. But, you know, it's the era of political correctness. You know I listen to a lot of broadcasts around the country, where commentators make comments, use the "N" word, they make comments that obviously if they were made by someone else other than minorities in this country, they would be booted off the airwaves right away.

The problem is, is that we have a racial double standard in this country. There are certain things that Joe Madison, even I can say, that we can get away with because of the hue of our skin. But if someone is like Rush Limbaugh, and especially if conservatives say it, there's an outrage.

I think the standard should be consistent. Because, I tell you, if someone who was an American black made the comment that Rush Limbaugh made it would be no big deal. There would be no outrage.

STOUFFER: Joe what do you think of that?

MADISON: Well, I think the only black person that would make a statement like that would probably be Armstrong. There's nobody black or white who would take the facts I just gave you about McNabb and would make -- that's why I said, an idiotic statement. He may be king of talk radio, but thank god for the First Amendment, so we can respond to the village idiot.

We don't need village idiots like Rush Limbaugh bringing on an entire generation with that kind of thinking. That's the problem there. We're beyond that.

We're beyond the Kansas City Monarchs. Beyond that stage. You know...

WILLIAMS: But, Joe, in all fairness...

STOUFFER: Let Armstrong get a chance to respond.

MADISON: I'm sorry.

WILLIAMS: Joe, in all fairness, Donovan McNabb has a wonderful NFL record. He's taken the Eagles to the championship for the last two years. He's a three-time pro bowl quarterback. But we've heard many people say that Donovan McNabb is overrated, and without a strong against and offensive line, you really get a chance to see who and what he is.

It has nothing to do with the hue of his skin. There are a lot of NFL quarterbacks that are overrated. Rush Limbaugh was making a point that the reason he gets so much hype is the fact that you have such an enthusiasm on behalf of the media and others for not only black NFL quarterbacks to do well, but for there to be black coaches in the NFL. And I think that point is well taken.

That is why the NFL has this ridiculous policy that if there's a vacancy in the coaches slot in the NFL, and if an NFL team does not interview a minority coach, they will be fined. That's based on race.

MADISON: And that's because...

STOUFFER: And that's to be a subject for a whole other segment here. Joe Madison and Armstrong Williams, I'm so sorry to say this, but we're going to have to leave it there right now. It's been a national discussion this week and it's one that will definitely continue.

WILLIAMS: Take care, Joe.

MADISON: OK. Thank you.

STOUFFER: You men have a nice weekend. Thank you, gentlemen.

MADISON: You, too.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com





Was It Racist?>


Aired October 4, 2003 - 14:36   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LINDA STOUFFER, CNN ANCHOR: And now on to something else: the words of commentator Rush Limbaugh. Well, he drew increased attention with a statement this week about Philadelphia Eagles' quarterback Donovan McNabb. I guess increased attention is kind of an understatement there. But was it racist, or are some people overreacting this week?
Well, we want to debate this issue. So radio talk show host Joe Madison joins us, and conservative commentator Armstrong Williams is here now, too, in our Washington studios. Welcome, gentlemen, to you both.

JOE MADISON, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Thank you.

ARMSTRONG WILLIAMS, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Thank you.

STOUFFER: All right, Joe, let me start with you. Do you think those comments were racist or not?

MADISON: You know my friend Mary Wright Edelman (ph), with the Children's Fund, has coined a phrase, saying that it takes a village to raise a child. A lot of children heard the statement. We just have to make sure it's not the village idiot.

What he said was idiotic. McNabb is a player who, in his first year, was runner-up for most valuable player. He went to two NFL championships, and he was elected by his peers to three consecutive pro bowls.

I know it's First Amendment right, but the great thing about the First Amendment is that we can respond to the village idiot even if that village idiot is the king of talk radio. It was an idiotic statement that had racial overtones. And he knows it, and the world knows it.

STOUFFER: And, Armstrong, I'm betting you have some reaction to that. I'm going to turn it over to you now. What do you think?

WILLIAMS: Well, the earlier report you showed at the hospital in Pennsylvania was absolutely racism, and the hospital should be ashamed of itself for compromising and giving in to that. What Rush Limbaugh said, as my colleague, Joe Madison, just expressed, he just used bad words.

I mean, he was trying to make a point and he injected race into making that point. If he just said that he felt Donovan McNabb was overrated, his being overrated or underrated had nothing to do with race. But I think the point that he also tried to make, which I think is a valid point, given the history of this country and blacks being -- were not -- the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) did not feel that blacks were equipped to play the quarterback slot, which was racist. But times have changed, and because we have more black quarterbacks in the league who are doing very well, many people in the media outside of the media, black and white alike, root for these people to do very well because of this history.

That's not racism. It's just that we have an understanding of our past. And we really want them to do well, because it shows progress in this country.

MADISON: Well, Armstrong really doesn't understand racism. The reality is that it is because of racism. It is because there are people who, in fact, have been left out.

You know, I'm old enough to remember when you couldn't be a quarterback because you were black. Now, the argument is, you're only a quarterback because you are black. Do you know if a white -- a black commentator had said when Larry Bird had some difficult times adrought, that the only reason he's playing in the NBA is because the owners and the "liberal media" needs white players to sell tickets to the NBA, he wouldn't be working either.

The pretext of the statement somehow suggests that McNabb is an affirmative action quarterback. Well, I played football in high school and college at Washington University, and the one thing about sports is that it is an example of how affirmative action works when there's a level playing field and you have rules that have to be followed by all participants.

So his argument was a pretext to somehow suggest that, because McNabb was black, he's being held there by the coach, by the owner of Philadelphia, and by the fans. That's why the owners, the coach, the fans, and his teammates are outraged at this idiotic statement that has serious racial overtones that are well over 40 years old, and I'm glad he's gone.

This is the same Rush Limbaugh, by the way, who said on his radio show, to a black listener, that -- who care what's black people think. They only make up 12 percent of the population.

STOUFFER: And, Joe, I want to bring Armstrong in here. You raise an interesting point about how times are different. And, Armstrong, Rush Limbaugh said that he was amazed that this whole thing was controversial. Were you?

WILLIAMS: Yes, actually, I was. But, you know, it's the era of political correctness. You know I listen to a lot of broadcasts around the country, where commentators make comments, use the "N" word, they make comments that obviously if they were made by someone else other than minorities in this country, they would be booted off the airwaves right away.

The problem is, is that we have a racial double standard in this country. There are certain things that Joe Madison, even I can say, that we can get away with because of the hue of our skin. But if someone is like Rush Limbaugh, and especially if conservatives say it, there's an outrage.

I think the standard should be consistent. Because, I tell you, if someone who was an American black made the comment that Rush Limbaugh made it would be no big deal. There would be no outrage.

STOUFFER: Joe what do you think of that?

MADISON: Well, I think the only black person that would make a statement like that would probably be Armstrong. There's nobody black or white who would take the facts I just gave you about McNabb and would make -- that's why I said, an idiotic statement. He may be king of talk radio, but thank god for the First Amendment, so we can respond to the village idiot.

We don't need village idiots like Rush Limbaugh bringing on an entire generation with that kind of thinking. That's the problem there. We're beyond that.

We're beyond the Kansas City Monarchs. Beyond that stage. You know...

WILLIAMS: But, Joe, in all fairness...

STOUFFER: Let Armstrong get a chance to respond.

MADISON: I'm sorry.

WILLIAMS: Joe, in all fairness, Donovan McNabb has a wonderful NFL record. He's taken the Eagles to the championship for the last two years. He's a three-time pro bowl quarterback. But we've heard many people say that Donovan McNabb is overrated, and without a strong against and offensive line, you really get a chance to see who and what he is.

It has nothing to do with the hue of his skin. There are a lot of NFL quarterbacks that are overrated. Rush Limbaugh was making a point that the reason he gets so much hype is the fact that you have such an enthusiasm on behalf of the media and others for not only black NFL quarterbacks to do well, but for there to be black coaches in the NFL. And I think that point is well taken.

That is why the NFL has this ridiculous policy that if there's a vacancy in the coaches slot in the NFL, and if an NFL team does not interview a minority coach, they will be fined. That's based on race.

MADISON: And that's because...

STOUFFER: And that's to be a subject for a whole other segment here. Joe Madison and Armstrong Williams, I'm so sorry to say this, but we're going to have to leave it there right now. It's been a national discussion this week and it's one that will definitely continue.

WILLIAMS: Take care, Joe.

MADISON: OK. Thank you.

STOUFFER: You men have a nice weekend. Thank you, gentlemen.

MADISON: You, too.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com





Was It Racist?>