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CNN Live Saturday

Man Proves TSA Has Weaknesses

Aired October 18, 2003 - 14:12   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN ANCHOR: Planted packages and airline insecurity. Box cutters, bleaching clay resembling plastique, explosives are found on two Southwest Airline flights. Law enforcement sources tell CNN that a North Carolina student has admitted placing the items on the planes. But the question remains, how were the items allowed on the planes? For analysis and more on the probe, we're joined by CNN's Mike Brooks.
Now, I know you've gotten some more information since the last time we spoke. You actually have an I.D. on this guy.

MIKE BROOKS, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We do. In fact, in an article in the "Greensboro News and Record" Web site today, Andrea, they idea Nathaniel T. Headwall (ph) as saying that he did speak to the FBI Friday evening.

In this article, he says, "They were pretty quick. I wasn't surprised." He goes on to say, "I'd love to speak to all this. I have a ton of stuff I'd like to say, but now is not the time. According to the report, I have to work with the government before I work with the media."

So apparently, he has not been arrested. He is at his home in Damascus, where he spoke with the "Greensboro News and Record," and what his status is, we don't know.

In an FBI statement yesterday, they said that they expect to have some proceedings Monday morning. I spoke with them earlier today to try to get an update to see if any charges had been filed. They referred me to the U.S. attorney's office in Baltimore. They're not saying anything further about the person or any charges that they may file against him.

KOPPEL: OK. Now, as a former FBI agent yourself, what does your gut tell you? Why haven't they leveled charges against this young man who admits to the fact that he did this?

BROOKS: Well, I spoke to an source of mine, an FBI source yesterday who was close to the investigation. And he says the guy was trying to help. That's what it sounds like from the statement that he's trying to help.

KOPPEL: Help in what way?

BROOKS: He was testing apparently, trying to test the TSA security screening procedures. And he apparently did fly on a number of flights. His name was on a manifest. There was also an e-mail that was sent to the Transportation Security Administration about a month ago.

That's one of the ways that they were able to track back to this particular person. Now, our Kathleen Koch in Washington, D.C. spoke with Mark Hatfield, a TSA spokesman, earlier today, who said that they are changing the training at their contact center in Washington. The contact center is where all the emails, all of the telephone calls to TSA, where they come into.

He said that they sometimes have a backlog of up to a week because they receive over 1,000 emails and telephone calls a day. So...

KOPPEL: So the FBI actually thinks that this young man may have provided a public service by showing the holes in the security system?

BROOKS: They're not saying that, but this is what apparently the student feels that he thought that he was helping to try to uncover some of the lapses in what he perceives as lapses in the TSA security screening procedures.

KOPPEL: OK. Mike Brooks, we're going to be checking back in with you I think later today. Thanks so much for the update.

BROOKS: Sure.

KOPPEL: Screeners are responsible for 429 airports. Some say there are bound to be security gaps.

For more on this, we turn now to Peter Goelz, who was a former NTSB managing director. He is in Washington, where he joins us now.

Mr. Goelz, how important do you think it is that you have kind of freelancers out there checking the security system?

PETER GOELZ, FMR. NTSB MANAGING DIRECTOR: Well, it can certainly disrupt the system. That there is gaps in how screening is performed, goes under the category of what else is new.

The inspector general put out a report some weeks ago that said that there are still, you know, prohibited items getting through. But what we have now that we didn't have on September 11th is a layered approach to security. You know, on September 11th, you could count the number of sky marshals in the dozens. Now, there are thousands.

On September 11th, access to the cockpit was sometimes a cavalier atmosphere. I mean, it wasn't locked all the time during flight. Today, the cockpit door is locked and it is armored. And most importantly, the passengers on board all flights today are not going to allow a repeat of 9/11.

KOPPEL: Just looking at the list of items that this young man says that he smuggled on board those Southwest Airlines, the only thing that's really ominous is the box cutter. But I mean, how is a screener supposed to know that there is bleach and not suntan lotion in a bottle, the way this young man says he smuggled it on board, and that there would be clay? I mean, that seems sort of like an innocuous item.

GOELZ: Well, you're absolutely right. And one of the challenges TSA faces is that the technology that's being used at the checkpoints, they're really 10 to 15 years old. And there needs to be greater attention spent on the next generation of technologies that will minimize human involvement and also have a more sophisticated analysis of what's passing through those machines.

Be able to determine by density, by trace detection whether it is Playdoh or whether it's C-4. And we can do that, but it's going to take some more money. But the real key, Andrea is, people need to remember that if you want tight, tough security, it may inconvenience you.

KOPPEL: Well, I know that a lot of folks who have to stand in line for quite a bit of time and take off their shoes and their coats and whatnot are now getting used to that fact. But you know, since the Transportation Safety Board has taken over the screening, they have confiscated -- I think the number is something like 8 million items, which include -- these proper hibted items -- 1,500 firearms and 50,000 box cutters.

What does that say to you?

GOELZ: That this is an extraordinary number of things. And you got to say, what is going through people's minds when they're getting on the aircraft? But it shows that these guys are doing a pretty good job. The checkpoints are far superior today than what they were September 11th, but the key thing to remember is that it's not the only line of defense.

KOPPEL: I'll tell you, I do not envy those screeners and their jobs. Peter Goelz, former NTSB managing director, thank you for coming in today, sir.

GOELZ: Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired October 18, 2003 - 14:12   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN ANCHOR: Planted packages and airline insecurity. Box cutters, bleaching clay resembling plastique, explosives are found on two Southwest Airline flights. Law enforcement sources tell CNN that a North Carolina student has admitted placing the items on the planes. But the question remains, how were the items allowed on the planes? For analysis and more on the probe, we're joined by CNN's Mike Brooks.
Now, I know you've gotten some more information since the last time we spoke. You actually have an I.D. on this guy.

MIKE BROOKS, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We do. In fact, in an article in the "Greensboro News and Record" Web site today, Andrea, they idea Nathaniel T. Headwall (ph) as saying that he did speak to the FBI Friday evening.

In this article, he says, "They were pretty quick. I wasn't surprised." He goes on to say, "I'd love to speak to all this. I have a ton of stuff I'd like to say, but now is not the time. According to the report, I have to work with the government before I work with the media."

So apparently, he has not been arrested. He is at his home in Damascus, where he spoke with the "Greensboro News and Record," and what his status is, we don't know.

In an FBI statement yesterday, they said that they expect to have some proceedings Monday morning. I spoke with them earlier today to try to get an update to see if any charges had been filed. They referred me to the U.S. attorney's office in Baltimore. They're not saying anything further about the person or any charges that they may file against him.

KOPPEL: OK. Now, as a former FBI agent yourself, what does your gut tell you? Why haven't they leveled charges against this young man who admits to the fact that he did this?

BROOKS: Well, I spoke to an source of mine, an FBI source yesterday who was close to the investigation. And he says the guy was trying to help. That's what it sounds like from the statement that he's trying to help.

KOPPEL: Help in what way?

BROOKS: He was testing apparently, trying to test the TSA security screening procedures. And he apparently did fly on a number of flights. His name was on a manifest. There was also an e-mail that was sent to the Transportation Security Administration about a month ago.

That's one of the ways that they were able to track back to this particular person. Now, our Kathleen Koch in Washington, D.C. spoke with Mark Hatfield, a TSA spokesman, earlier today, who said that they are changing the training at their contact center in Washington. The contact center is where all the emails, all of the telephone calls to TSA, where they come into.

He said that they sometimes have a backlog of up to a week because they receive over 1,000 emails and telephone calls a day. So...

KOPPEL: So the FBI actually thinks that this young man may have provided a public service by showing the holes in the security system?

BROOKS: They're not saying that, but this is what apparently the student feels that he thought that he was helping to try to uncover some of the lapses in what he perceives as lapses in the TSA security screening procedures.

KOPPEL: OK. Mike Brooks, we're going to be checking back in with you I think later today. Thanks so much for the update.

BROOKS: Sure.

KOPPEL: Screeners are responsible for 429 airports. Some say there are bound to be security gaps.

For more on this, we turn now to Peter Goelz, who was a former NTSB managing director. He is in Washington, where he joins us now.

Mr. Goelz, how important do you think it is that you have kind of freelancers out there checking the security system?

PETER GOELZ, FMR. NTSB MANAGING DIRECTOR: Well, it can certainly disrupt the system. That there is gaps in how screening is performed, goes under the category of what else is new.

The inspector general put out a report some weeks ago that said that there are still, you know, prohibited items getting through. But what we have now that we didn't have on September 11th is a layered approach to security. You know, on September 11th, you could count the number of sky marshals in the dozens. Now, there are thousands.

On September 11th, access to the cockpit was sometimes a cavalier atmosphere. I mean, it wasn't locked all the time during flight. Today, the cockpit door is locked and it is armored. And most importantly, the passengers on board all flights today are not going to allow a repeat of 9/11.

KOPPEL: Just looking at the list of items that this young man says that he smuggled on board those Southwest Airlines, the only thing that's really ominous is the box cutter. But I mean, how is a screener supposed to know that there is bleach and not suntan lotion in a bottle, the way this young man says he smuggled it on board, and that there would be clay? I mean, that seems sort of like an innocuous item.

GOELZ: Well, you're absolutely right. And one of the challenges TSA faces is that the technology that's being used at the checkpoints, they're really 10 to 15 years old. And there needs to be greater attention spent on the next generation of technologies that will minimize human involvement and also have a more sophisticated analysis of what's passing through those machines.

Be able to determine by density, by trace detection whether it is Playdoh or whether it's C-4. And we can do that, but it's going to take some more money. But the real key, Andrea is, people need to remember that if you want tight, tough security, it may inconvenience you.

KOPPEL: Well, I know that a lot of folks who have to stand in line for quite a bit of time and take off their shoes and their coats and whatnot are now getting used to that fact. But you know, since the Transportation Safety Board has taken over the screening, they have confiscated -- I think the number is something like 8 million items, which include -- these proper hibted items -- 1,500 firearms and 50,000 box cutters.

What does that say to you?

GOELZ: That this is an extraordinary number of things. And you got to say, what is going through people's minds when they're getting on the aircraft? But it shows that these guys are doing a pretty good job. The checkpoints are far superior today than what they were September 11th, but the key thing to remember is that it's not the only line of defense.

KOPPEL: I'll tell you, I do not envy those screeners and their jobs. Peter Goelz, former NTSB managing director, thank you for coming in today, sir.

GOELZ: Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com