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CNN Live Saturday
Interview with Victoria Jones, Martha Zoller
Aired November 01, 2003 - 14:36 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JONATHAN KARL, CNN ANCHOR: How does a New England liberal appeal to Southern conservatives? Democratic presidential candidate Howard Dean says he wants to be the candidate "for guys with confederate flags in their pickup trucks." He goes on to tell the "Des Moines Register," "We can't beat George Bush unless we appeal to a broad cross-section of Democrats."
The remark, as you might imagine, is drawing a lot flack from Dean's rivals. John Kerry put it this way: "Howard Dean is justifying his pandering to the NRA by saying his opposition to an assault weapons ban allows him to pander to voters, to lovers of the confederate flag." "It is simply unconscionable," Kerry says, "for Dean to embrace the most racially divisive symbol in America. I would rather be a candidate of the NAACP than the NRA."
For controversy on the campaign trail -- and let's talk about it now with Victoria Jones, correspondent for Talk Radio News Service in Washington. And Martha Zoller, a radio talk show host at WDUN in Atlanta.
Let's start with you, Victoria. What's going on today? You open up the "Des Moines Register" and you see Howard Dean talking about how he wants to appeal to people that have a confederate flag in their pickup trucks?
VICTORIA JONES, TALK RADIO NEWS SERVICE: Well, this is one of the difficulties Howard Dean's got. He opens his mouth and he speaks, and something comes out, and then later on his people are saying, oh, for crying out loud, why did you say that? Because I'm sure that's not what he intended to say.
And it's like chum in the water to the other guys who just can't wait to knock him off. And he has a huge problem here. Because if he does want to appeal to those guys, how is he going to do that when we was also the anti-war candidate? So he has to figure out who he is going to appeal to here.
KARL: But Martha, conservatives have been hammering Dean as this far out lefty on the campaign trail, but he is somebody who was highly rated by the National Rifle Association as governor in Vermont. That's what this whole interview was about. He was talking about how he can appeal to gun owners had the south, because he does have a record that is at least somewhat appealing to those supporter of the second amendment.
I mean, can you really call Howard Dean a far out lefty when he's talking like this?
MARTHA ZOLLER, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Well, he certainly is right wing compared to Vermont standards, which is not exactly the standards in the rest of the country. But what bothers me about the statement that he made, he obviously looked at the cover of Senator Zell Miller's book, "A National Party No More," but didn't read the inside.
And the kind of stereotypes that he's putting forth like he did here is just not acceptable. And he did the same thing when he was in Atlanta a few months ago, where he said that if they close Morris Brown College, then the incarceration rate of black men will go up. And he makes these kinds of faux pas all the time, generalizations, stereotypes.
And you know what? That's what the Democratic Party has been reduced to, is a whole bunch of stereotypes. But it's OK when they throw them at conservatives and call them names, but it's not OK when we throw them back.
KARL: Now, Howard Dean has said something similar before. He has said that the Democratic Party must be able to reach out to those that might have confederate flag decals on their trucks because those people have economic challenges in the south. The south has been hurting economically. They should be voting Democratic.
But clearly, this is also going to play right into what Al Sharpton has said about Howard Dean, saying that his campaign has been racially insensitive. What's your take? Both of you, either one.
JONES: Well, it is going to play into Al Sharpton's hands, because I'm not sure that Dean's campaign has been racially insensitive, but Dean's campaign has had a great appeal to whites. And how he's going to make that crossover and appeal to conservatives is a huge problem for him.
ZOLLER: I think...
KARL: All right -- go ahead.
ZOLLER: Well, it's just, it will play into Al Sharpton's hands, but where is that vote going to go? Al Sharpton is not going to get the majority coming out of this primary season. And obviously, Dean is the guy to beat right now.
Southern Democrats are certainly not just guys that have confederate decals on the back of their trucks, or women or African- Americans. In fact, the majority of Southern Democrats are African- Americans. So I don't think this statement is going to beholden him to them at all.
KARL: All right. Let's move on to Iraq. We had the vote in the House on Friday or on late Thursday, early Friday morning, given $87 billion to the president to be used in Iraq and Afghanistan. This has obviously been a bone of contention all along. There'll be a vote in the Senate. We know that at least some of the Democratic presidential candidates, John Kerry, for example, Howard Dean, for another example, has opposed this $87 billion. Will they pay a political price for that?
JONES: I don't think they're going to pay a political price for it in the long run because I think everybody will acknowledge at some point that, if you've got the guys over there, you have to finish the job. If you invade a country and you are occupying it, you can't just say, you know something? This is a bit of a mess, and we'll see you later.
This is a campaign year and we're out of here. And hopefully that won't happen.
So I think they know that it's a problem for them with the constituents who have voted for it, those who have. But he also know that if they vote against it, then they're going to have to answer to military families.
ZOLLER: Well, and it's a liberation of Iraq. And certainly we have had cooperation. But the $87 billion, the president is going to get it. There will be relatively few strings tied to it.
And I think that Howard Dean is not going to pay a price, because his position has been consistent. John Kerry may pay a price. The truth will be told in South Carolina, where you have the highest number of veterans voting in a primary.
KARL: I mean, this was not money simply to rebuild Iraq. This was money also to go for the security and maintenance of the troops on the ground.
ZOLLER: Two-thirds of the money, yes. Two-thirds of money is for the troops on the ground.
JONES: And that's the point. And that's why most of them who do vote for this are not going to pay a price for it. That's why this money was important.
We cannot put our troops out there and not support them. We cannot put our troops out there and the have them buying their equipment on eBay. We cannot have them out there and not able to fly home when they land at Baltimore Airport because we won't pay for that. We cannot do this kind of thing.
KARL: All right. And quickly -- go ahead.
ZOLLER: People talk a lot about exit strategy. And the bottom line is, you know the only country we had an exit strategy in that we were in military was Vietnam, and that was to get out. All the other countries that we have had military actions in, we still have a presence in those countries. So we've got to give them what they need.
KARL: OK. Twenty more seconds left. We had good news on the economy, 7.2 percent growth in the Gross Domestic Product. Now, we've had news continuing to be challenging in Iraq.
What's going to be the bigger issue for Democrats as they try to take on Bush next fall?
JONES: Well, by next fall, things could have change so much. I think it's going to depend on what happens in the next quarter, which is the Christmas quarter. They'll probably do well. By then, so much is going depend on how many people have been killed in Iraq.
ZOLLER: It's both the economy and how we're doing in Iraq this time next year.
KARL: OK, great. Victoria and Martha, thank you both for joining us on this Saturday. We appreciate it.
ZOLLER: Thanks, Victoria.
JONES: Thank you.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired November 1, 2003 - 14:36 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JONATHAN KARL, CNN ANCHOR: How does a New England liberal appeal to Southern conservatives? Democratic presidential candidate Howard Dean says he wants to be the candidate "for guys with confederate flags in their pickup trucks." He goes on to tell the "Des Moines Register," "We can't beat George Bush unless we appeal to a broad cross-section of Democrats."
The remark, as you might imagine, is drawing a lot flack from Dean's rivals. John Kerry put it this way: "Howard Dean is justifying his pandering to the NRA by saying his opposition to an assault weapons ban allows him to pander to voters, to lovers of the confederate flag." "It is simply unconscionable," Kerry says, "for Dean to embrace the most racially divisive symbol in America. I would rather be a candidate of the NAACP than the NRA."
For controversy on the campaign trail -- and let's talk about it now with Victoria Jones, correspondent for Talk Radio News Service in Washington. And Martha Zoller, a radio talk show host at WDUN in Atlanta.
Let's start with you, Victoria. What's going on today? You open up the "Des Moines Register" and you see Howard Dean talking about how he wants to appeal to people that have a confederate flag in their pickup trucks?
VICTORIA JONES, TALK RADIO NEWS SERVICE: Well, this is one of the difficulties Howard Dean's got. He opens his mouth and he speaks, and something comes out, and then later on his people are saying, oh, for crying out loud, why did you say that? Because I'm sure that's not what he intended to say.
And it's like chum in the water to the other guys who just can't wait to knock him off. And he has a huge problem here. Because if he does want to appeal to those guys, how is he going to do that when we was also the anti-war candidate? So he has to figure out who he is going to appeal to here.
KARL: But Martha, conservatives have been hammering Dean as this far out lefty on the campaign trail, but he is somebody who was highly rated by the National Rifle Association as governor in Vermont. That's what this whole interview was about. He was talking about how he can appeal to gun owners had the south, because he does have a record that is at least somewhat appealing to those supporter of the second amendment.
I mean, can you really call Howard Dean a far out lefty when he's talking like this?
MARTHA ZOLLER, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Well, he certainly is right wing compared to Vermont standards, which is not exactly the standards in the rest of the country. But what bothers me about the statement that he made, he obviously looked at the cover of Senator Zell Miller's book, "A National Party No More," but didn't read the inside.
And the kind of stereotypes that he's putting forth like he did here is just not acceptable. And he did the same thing when he was in Atlanta a few months ago, where he said that if they close Morris Brown College, then the incarceration rate of black men will go up. And he makes these kinds of faux pas all the time, generalizations, stereotypes.
And you know what? That's what the Democratic Party has been reduced to, is a whole bunch of stereotypes. But it's OK when they throw them at conservatives and call them names, but it's not OK when we throw them back.
KARL: Now, Howard Dean has said something similar before. He has said that the Democratic Party must be able to reach out to those that might have confederate flag decals on their trucks because those people have economic challenges in the south. The south has been hurting economically. They should be voting Democratic.
But clearly, this is also going to play right into what Al Sharpton has said about Howard Dean, saying that his campaign has been racially insensitive. What's your take? Both of you, either one.
JONES: Well, it is going to play into Al Sharpton's hands, because I'm not sure that Dean's campaign has been racially insensitive, but Dean's campaign has had a great appeal to whites. And how he's going to make that crossover and appeal to conservatives is a huge problem for him.
ZOLLER: I think...
KARL: All right -- go ahead.
ZOLLER: Well, it's just, it will play into Al Sharpton's hands, but where is that vote going to go? Al Sharpton is not going to get the majority coming out of this primary season. And obviously, Dean is the guy to beat right now.
Southern Democrats are certainly not just guys that have confederate decals on the back of their trucks, or women or African- Americans. In fact, the majority of Southern Democrats are African- Americans. So I don't think this statement is going to beholden him to them at all.
KARL: All right. Let's move on to Iraq. We had the vote in the House on Friday or on late Thursday, early Friday morning, given $87 billion to the president to be used in Iraq and Afghanistan. This has obviously been a bone of contention all along. There'll be a vote in the Senate. We know that at least some of the Democratic presidential candidates, John Kerry, for example, Howard Dean, for another example, has opposed this $87 billion. Will they pay a political price for that?
JONES: I don't think they're going to pay a political price for it in the long run because I think everybody will acknowledge at some point that, if you've got the guys over there, you have to finish the job. If you invade a country and you are occupying it, you can't just say, you know something? This is a bit of a mess, and we'll see you later.
This is a campaign year and we're out of here. And hopefully that won't happen.
So I think they know that it's a problem for them with the constituents who have voted for it, those who have. But he also know that if they vote against it, then they're going to have to answer to military families.
ZOLLER: Well, and it's a liberation of Iraq. And certainly we have had cooperation. But the $87 billion, the president is going to get it. There will be relatively few strings tied to it.
And I think that Howard Dean is not going to pay a price, because his position has been consistent. John Kerry may pay a price. The truth will be told in South Carolina, where you have the highest number of veterans voting in a primary.
KARL: I mean, this was not money simply to rebuild Iraq. This was money also to go for the security and maintenance of the troops on the ground.
ZOLLER: Two-thirds of the money, yes. Two-thirds of money is for the troops on the ground.
JONES: And that's the point. And that's why most of them who do vote for this are not going to pay a price for it. That's why this money was important.
We cannot put our troops out there and not support them. We cannot put our troops out there and the have them buying their equipment on eBay. We cannot have them out there and not able to fly home when they land at Baltimore Airport because we won't pay for that. We cannot do this kind of thing.
KARL: All right. And quickly -- go ahead.
ZOLLER: People talk a lot about exit strategy. And the bottom line is, you know the only country we had an exit strategy in that we were in military was Vietnam, and that was to get out. All the other countries that we have had military actions in, we still have a presence in those countries. So we've got to give them what they need.
KARL: OK. Twenty more seconds left. We had good news on the economy, 7.2 percent growth in the Gross Domestic Product. Now, we've had news continuing to be challenging in Iraq.
What's going to be the bigger issue for Democrats as they try to take on Bush next fall?
JONES: Well, by next fall, things could have change so much. I think it's going to depend on what happens in the next quarter, which is the Christmas quarter. They'll probably do well. By then, so much is going depend on how many people have been killed in Iraq.
ZOLLER: It's both the economy and how we're doing in Iraq this time next year.
KARL: OK, great. Victoria and Martha, thank you both for joining us on this Saturday. We appreciate it.
ZOLLER: Thanks, Victoria.
JONES: Thank you.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
