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CNN Live Saturday
Dean, Democrats and Iowa's Deadline
Aired December 27, 2003 - 12:34 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Now, at this point, it's anyone's guess who will become President Bush's opponent in the 2004 race. But that's not stopping politicos from placing their wagers.
Time for some predictions and perspectives on the campaign.
GOP strategist Cheri Jacobus is in Washington.
And Democratic strategist Robert Zimmerman comes to use from New York.
Good to see both of you.
(CROSSTALK)
WHITFIELD: All right.
Let's start with the Democratic front runner, Howard Dean. He's fighting to keep his records as governor sealed.
Robert, is this a fight that is worth staying in?
ROBERT ZIMMERMAN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: I'll tell you something. I think it's fight that's a very dangerous distraction for -- for Democrats, in that even though Governor Dean is following precedent, and, in fact, is sealing his records for a shorter period of time than most governors, the bottom line is it takes us away from what the real -- from the real issues of this campaign. And that is the unprecedented secrecy of the bush administration, to the point where even members of Congress -- like Congressman Dan Burton -- have attacked the White House for the veil of secrecy they've engaged in, whether it's repealing the Presidential Records Act, so that his father's records and Vice President Cheney's records can be concealed. Or whether it's, in fact, even blocking his own White House commission that's investigating 9/11, blocking and trying to limit their access to important documents, about what transpired in the White House and what the White House' relationship with Saudi Arabia.
So we have important national issues to debate about security. And I think this, unfortunately -- Governor Dean, I think, does a disservice to the Democratic message by keeping his records sealed.
WHITFIELD: Well, Cheri, you agree with that? I mean, Robert is saying he's following precedent. He's only doing what he's seen President Bush do, particularly before, while he was then Texas governor...
CHERI JACOBUS, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well...
WHITFIELD: ...before he entered the race.
JACOBUS: Well, he's (UNINTELLIGIBLE). I'll agree that it's distraction, and probably not the brightest thing for the Dean campaign to be going through this, because they probably should be focusing on other things.
But I really find it interesting that Democrats now are somehow trying to compare this to what they're calling a veil of secrecy around the Bush administration. There's a big difference between any sort of secrets from -- with the -- being the governor of Vermont. When I can't -- I can't imagine what they would be. Ben & Jerry's ice cream secret recipes or something like that -- and national security issues and foreign affairs issues -- and, you know, anything surrounding 9/11.
ZIMMERMAN: And covering -- and covering up issues.
(CROSSTALK)
JACOBUS: Wait a minute. I think what you're doing is making a huge leap in order to try and make a defense for Howard Dean because you can't really defend it
ZIMMERMAN: Not at all.
JACOBUS: It' is laughable to compare keeping a governor of Vermont's records secret compared to keeping national security issues under wraps.
ZIMMERMAN: Now, Cheri, O wouldn't want to accuse you of misinterpreting what I'm saying. I know it's only accidental. I'm not defending Governor Dean's record -- decision to seal his record. What I'm saying is, we Democrats should be focusing on much more substantive issues.
(CROSSTALK)
WHITFIELD: OK.
JACOBUS: You're trying to put on it a level with the president of the United States and his administration.
ZIMMERMAN: Not at all.
(CROSSTALK)
WHITFIELD: OK. I think both of you are make great points there, but it doesn't look like we're going to have any agreement on that issue.
ZIMMERMAN: OK. WHITFIELD: So let's move though another topic involving these Democratic contenders. Iowa caucuses right around the corner. Anything can happen.
Robert, how do you see it playing out?
ZIMMERMAN: Well, I'll tell you, I think many pundits and analysts make a mistake determining who the winner is before even the first vote is cast in the first caucus. And I think one of Howard Dean's problems is his own campaign has described himselves (ph) as the frontrunners and I think that's very, very premature.
The internal polls I see in Iowa show that this a tight, three- way race between Howard Dean, Dick Gephardt and John Kerry. And that's a bit of a surprise.
In "The Wall Street Journal," Dave Rodgers (ph) just did a story focusing on that point.
WHITFIELD: All right.
ZIMMERMAN: I think that's going to be a bit of surprise.
And I think it's always important to understand that in Iowa, because it's a caucus process, it's very hard to poll accurately. People meet at night, in school community meeting rooms.
(CROSSTALK)
WHITFIELD: Well, Cheri, let me get you in here before we run of time.
How do you see Dean, Gephardt and Kerry kind of customizing their races in Iowa?
JACOBUS: I think the Kerry situation, those numbers are a temporary fluke. I think that Dick Gephardt would benefit. The sooner the smoke comes, the better, because he's been building his organization , obviously, and strengthening it since 1988. But he can only go so far with that.
Dean is the one with the momentum in terms of bringing in new people all the time through the Internet. SO the long the campaign goes on in Iowa, the better Dean does. So it just depends on who can hold it together the best until -- until they start voting.
WHITFIELD: All right, and Cheri, some foul language has been reportedly used. Wesley Clark as well as Howard Dean, apparently, have been recorded in some cases, using foul language.
JACOBUS: Right.
WHTIFIELD: You know, is -- is this a case of them getting just too comfortable, or is their way of demonstrating that they are men of the people?
JACOBUS: I think that it's a way of them demonstrating they're not quite ready for primetime.
John Kerry dropping the f-bomb in a "Rolling Stone" magazine interview, thinking that this is what young people think is cool. Young people don't think it's cool for middle age and older white guys to be speaking like that. It shows a lack of respect for young people, young voters; a lack of respect of process; and I certainly wouldn't want him kissing the queen of England's hand with that mouth.
WHITFIELD: Ouch. Robert?
ZIMMERMAN: Cheri, I give you credit for trying to make vulgar language a partisan issue. But I think you forget about some of George Bush's phrases towards a "New York Times" reporter at a Republican party rally.
JAOCBUS: When he thought the microphone was off. A big, big difference.
(CROSSTALK)
ZIMMERMAN: It's inexcusable under any situation. And it does take us away from the message and the important issues that have to be addressed. So vulgar language is inappropriate.
JACOBUS: Yes.
ZIMMERMAN: And I would suggest all the staffs on both parties...
(CROSSTALK)
JACOBUS: Big difference when it's on purpose and when it's on accident. I think the American people see that. John Kerry did it on purpose. Wesley Clark did it on purpose.
ZIMMERMAN: I think it's kind of vulgar to try and defend it.
WHITFIELD: So as the voters, then, you know, try to weigh all that they have seen, whether it's been intentionally recorded or not -- Cheri, how do you see the nominee -- or, how do you see the Democratic race kind of playing out? Which nominee are you seeing?
JACOBUS: I think that at this point, clearly, Howard Dean has the momentum. I know that Karl Rove and Ed Gillespie, the RNC chairman, are planning for a very tight race. At this point, I'd have to say, I don't think it's going to be that close. I think that Howard Dean has some problems -- foot-in-mouth disease that he has not been able to cure. He keeps having to correct himself from so-called misstatements.
WHITFIELD: All right.
JACOBUS: I think that's going to do him in, in the end
WHITFIELD: Robert, you willing to make a prediction about the nominee?
ZIMMERMAN: I'm only going to predict one thing about the nominee: it is a wide open race.
Contrary to what the pundits are saying, Iowa is a very tight, three-person race. And it's -- anyone knows anything about New Hampshire politics, they don't make up their mind until the last two weeks before the vote. So I think the impact of Iowa will be felt in New Hampshire. And I think it's a very, very fluid situation.
WHITFIELD: All right. Robert Zimmerman and Cheri Jacobus, thanks very much for joining us. Happy holidays.
JACOBUS: Thank you.
ZIMMERMAN: Thank you.
WHITFIELD: I'm sure we'll be talking to you again on this very topic and others.
All right. Be sure to tune in for the new, weekend edition of "INSIDE POLITICS," starting January 4 at 10 a.m. Eastern. At the start of an election year, CNN will be keeping you on top of all the political developments, right through Election Day. And that begins next Sunday morning, right here on CNN.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired December 27, 2003 - 12:34 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Now, at this point, it's anyone's guess who will become President Bush's opponent in the 2004 race. But that's not stopping politicos from placing their wagers.
Time for some predictions and perspectives on the campaign.
GOP strategist Cheri Jacobus is in Washington.
And Democratic strategist Robert Zimmerman comes to use from New York.
Good to see both of you.
(CROSSTALK)
WHITFIELD: All right.
Let's start with the Democratic front runner, Howard Dean. He's fighting to keep his records as governor sealed.
Robert, is this a fight that is worth staying in?
ROBERT ZIMMERMAN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: I'll tell you something. I think it's fight that's a very dangerous distraction for -- for Democrats, in that even though Governor Dean is following precedent, and, in fact, is sealing his records for a shorter period of time than most governors, the bottom line is it takes us away from what the real -- from the real issues of this campaign. And that is the unprecedented secrecy of the bush administration, to the point where even members of Congress -- like Congressman Dan Burton -- have attacked the White House for the veil of secrecy they've engaged in, whether it's repealing the Presidential Records Act, so that his father's records and Vice President Cheney's records can be concealed. Or whether it's, in fact, even blocking his own White House commission that's investigating 9/11, blocking and trying to limit their access to important documents, about what transpired in the White House and what the White House' relationship with Saudi Arabia.
So we have important national issues to debate about security. And I think this, unfortunately -- Governor Dean, I think, does a disservice to the Democratic message by keeping his records sealed.
WHITFIELD: Well, Cheri, you agree with that? I mean, Robert is saying he's following precedent. He's only doing what he's seen President Bush do, particularly before, while he was then Texas governor...
CHERI JACOBUS, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well...
WHITFIELD: ...before he entered the race.
JACOBUS: Well, he's (UNINTELLIGIBLE). I'll agree that it's distraction, and probably not the brightest thing for the Dean campaign to be going through this, because they probably should be focusing on other things.
But I really find it interesting that Democrats now are somehow trying to compare this to what they're calling a veil of secrecy around the Bush administration. There's a big difference between any sort of secrets from -- with the -- being the governor of Vermont. When I can't -- I can't imagine what they would be. Ben & Jerry's ice cream secret recipes or something like that -- and national security issues and foreign affairs issues -- and, you know, anything surrounding 9/11.
ZIMMERMAN: And covering -- and covering up issues.
(CROSSTALK)
JACOBUS: Wait a minute. I think what you're doing is making a huge leap in order to try and make a defense for Howard Dean because you can't really defend it
ZIMMERMAN: Not at all.
JACOBUS: It' is laughable to compare keeping a governor of Vermont's records secret compared to keeping national security issues under wraps.
ZIMMERMAN: Now, Cheri, O wouldn't want to accuse you of misinterpreting what I'm saying. I know it's only accidental. I'm not defending Governor Dean's record -- decision to seal his record. What I'm saying is, we Democrats should be focusing on much more substantive issues.
(CROSSTALK)
WHITFIELD: OK.
JACOBUS: You're trying to put on it a level with the president of the United States and his administration.
ZIMMERMAN: Not at all.
(CROSSTALK)
WHITFIELD: OK. I think both of you are make great points there, but it doesn't look like we're going to have any agreement on that issue.
ZIMMERMAN: OK. WHITFIELD: So let's move though another topic involving these Democratic contenders. Iowa caucuses right around the corner. Anything can happen.
Robert, how do you see it playing out?
ZIMMERMAN: Well, I'll tell you, I think many pundits and analysts make a mistake determining who the winner is before even the first vote is cast in the first caucus. And I think one of Howard Dean's problems is his own campaign has described himselves (ph) as the frontrunners and I think that's very, very premature.
The internal polls I see in Iowa show that this a tight, three- way race between Howard Dean, Dick Gephardt and John Kerry. And that's a bit of a surprise.
In "The Wall Street Journal," Dave Rodgers (ph) just did a story focusing on that point.
WHITFIELD: All right.
ZIMMERMAN: I think that's going to be a bit of surprise.
And I think it's always important to understand that in Iowa, because it's a caucus process, it's very hard to poll accurately. People meet at night, in school community meeting rooms.
(CROSSTALK)
WHITFIELD: Well, Cheri, let me get you in here before we run of time.
How do you see Dean, Gephardt and Kerry kind of customizing their races in Iowa?
JACOBUS: I think the Kerry situation, those numbers are a temporary fluke. I think that Dick Gephardt would benefit. The sooner the smoke comes, the better, because he's been building his organization , obviously, and strengthening it since 1988. But he can only go so far with that.
Dean is the one with the momentum in terms of bringing in new people all the time through the Internet. SO the long the campaign goes on in Iowa, the better Dean does. So it just depends on who can hold it together the best until -- until they start voting.
WHITFIELD: All right, and Cheri, some foul language has been reportedly used. Wesley Clark as well as Howard Dean, apparently, have been recorded in some cases, using foul language.
JACOBUS: Right.
WHTIFIELD: You know, is -- is this a case of them getting just too comfortable, or is their way of demonstrating that they are men of the people?
JACOBUS: I think that it's a way of them demonstrating they're not quite ready for primetime.
John Kerry dropping the f-bomb in a "Rolling Stone" magazine interview, thinking that this is what young people think is cool. Young people don't think it's cool for middle age and older white guys to be speaking like that. It shows a lack of respect for young people, young voters; a lack of respect of process; and I certainly wouldn't want him kissing the queen of England's hand with that mouth.
WHITFIELD: Ouch. Robert?
ZIMMERMAN: Cheri, I give you credit for trying to make vulgar language a partisan issue. But I think you forget about some of George Bush's phrases towards a "New York Times" reporter at a Republican party rally.
JAOCBUS: When he thought the microphone was off. A big, big difference.
(CROSSTALK)
ZIMMERMAN: It's inexcusable under any situation. And it does take us away from the message and the important issues that have to be addressed. So vulgar language is inappropriate.
JACOBUS: Yes.
ZIMMERMAN: And I would suggest all the staffs on both parties...
(CROSSTALK)
JACOBUS: Big difference when it's on purpose and when it's on accident. I think the American people see that. John Kerry did it on purpose. Wesley Clark did it on purpose.
ZIMMERMAN: I think it's kind of vulgar to try and defend it.
WHITFIELD: So as the voters, then, you know, try to weigh all that they have seen, whether it's been intentionally recorded or not -- Cheri, how do you see the nominee -- or, how do you see the Democratic race kind of playing out? Which nominee are you seeing?
JACOBUS: I think that at this point, clearly, Howard Dean has the momentum. I know that Karl Rove and Ed Gillespie, the RNC chairman, are planning for a very tight race. At this point, I'd have to say, I don't think it's going to be that close. I think that Howard Dean has some problems -- foot-in-mouth disease that he has not been able to cure. He keeps having to correct himself from so-called misstatements.
WHITFIELD: All right.
JACOBUS: I think that's going to do him in, in the end
WHITFIELD: Robert, you willing to make a prediction about the nominee?
ZIMMERMAN: I'm only going to predict one thing about the nominee: it is a wide open race.
Contrary to what the pundits are saying, Iowa is a very tight, three-person race. And it's -- anyone knows anything about New Hampshire politics, they don't make up their mind until the last two weeks before the vote. So I think the impact of Iowa will be felt in New Hampshire. And I think it's a very, very fluid situation.
WHITFIELD: All right. Robert Zimmerman and Cheri Jacobus, thanks very much for joining us. Happy holidays.
JACOBUS: Thank you.
ZIMMERMAN: Thank you.
WHITFIELD: I'm sure we'll be talking to you again on this very topic and others.
All right. Be sure to tune in for the new, weekend edition of "INSIDE POLITICS," starting January 4 at 10 a.m. Eastern. At the start of an election year, CNN will be keeping you on top of all the political developments, right through Election Day. And that begins next Sunday morning, right here on CNN.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
